Tom Brady! Best of all time?
- Thread starter Titanium999
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I'm not a Pats fan and I'm not a Bucs fan. I am also not particularly a Brady fan. But I think Brady is the GOAT, hands down. The NFL has been playing Super Bowls for over 50 years. Brady has won way more than his share. Scoreboard.
That famed NU alum Greenie said on his show today that Brady shouldn’t be compared to Favre, Marino, Rodgers, Montana et al. He said he should be compared to Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, and Wayne Gretzky as the best player in a team sport in the history of that sport.
Count this as another time I don't agree with Greenie. I think he is a good journalist but disagree with him on sports all of the time. He is much like many in the press always wanting to name the next GOAT. They love this topic because it is so debatable. Don't count me as a Babe Ruth hater but you can't say undoubtedly the greatest baseball player of all time.
I can’t undoubtedly say NU would have lost to Alabama had they played either, but unfortunately I sure think that would be the outcome.
I am right with Greenie in this one. That’s my Mount Rushmore of the 4 major sports. I saw three of them throughout their entire career. The fourth, Babe was so far ahead of his time that he out homered an entire league. He also was a fine major league pitcher and would have been a star there as well from all indications. Way way way ahead of his time.
Gretzky really had an incredible cast around him: Messier, Kurri, Anderson, and Coffey were all HOFers. Guys like Fuhr, Linseman, McTavish, Tikkanen, Huddy, etc. were very good players.
Disagree about Ruth. If you look at what he did in HIS TIME, it's jaw dropping. He took baseball - and the home run - to a whole different level. No one player in U.S. sports history had the following or the effect on the public that he did and it's not even close. He was baseball back in the early 1900s.
I think too many times people dismiss old time athletes because their measurables and speed - etc.... just don't match up with today's athletes and I agree. Very few could excel in today's sports - especially football. But the only true way to compare them is what they did in their era. With that, Babe Ruth was the greatest of all time and had more affect on baseball - by far - than any other player in history
Ruth’s lifetime OPS+ of 206 says that he was twice as productive as an average hitter from his era. Amazing.
Ted Williams, whom many argue was the greatest hitter, accumulated the second highest career OPS+; 191.
I agree Ruth did amazing things statistically and is arguably the greatest hitter. If we go by just stats then Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest basketball player. Rodgers and Mahomes (when he plays enough games) are the greatest QB's. You can't just go by statistics. That is what makes all of this so debatable and none can be beyond a shadow of a doubt. Ruth played in a segregated league as well.
I wasn't going on statistics with Ruth. My reasoning was the effect he had on the game of baseball in the early 1900s. I'm 70 and my father and uncles (all deceased) told stories about how he completely dominated and revolutionized the game by himself. His presence packed stadiums. Others had as many HRs, RBIs, better average but no one - absolutely NO ONE- impacted his/her sport like Ruth did
My uncle ended up being a wealthy man and knew famous people all over the world. But his most memorable moment: the day as a nine year old kid when he stood in line after a game in Chicago's Comiskey (sp?) park after a Yankee game and got the Babe to autograph a baseball. He treasured it until he passed in 2010 and passed it on to my cousin. Forget the stats - Babe Ruth was Mr. Baseball
I am 54 years old and have loved sports for as long as I can remember. I appreciate early years of sports as much as anyone. I love statistics and eye tests of players. I have my opinions of who I feel is best at each sport. I do believe that there is enough subjectivity that they all are debatable. I look at an individual sport such as golf and people will debate Nicklaus or Woods or name someone. It is fun to debate...but I still argue it is and always will be a debate.
He’s won me over. I always thought he was a product of the Patriots system and what I didn’t realize until last night it was the other way around. Truly amazing.
It's just hard to deny Brady's place in NFL history at this point.
If it was just decent play across a decade along with a few postseason SB runs, that'd be something else.
But he's now at 7 Super Bowl wins with 5 MVPs from those games to go along with the rest of his accolades. Brady's regular season accolades compare well with Brees, Marino, Elway, Manning, Rodgers, Montana, Favre etc. But then you add the postseason numbers and that takes him from top 20 to a singular #1 of all time.
And winning the 7th with another team breaks the argument that he was just a product of Belichik's system (as dumb as that argument was; like arguing Jordan and Kobe won because of the triangle).
Not even Montana comes close anymore as a QB.
The only modern football player I used to put on the same level as Brady as of a few years ago was Rice who transcended his position and set an unmatchable benchmark for his position.
But Brady's taken it to another level of winning.
He has become the Jordan or Gretzky of football. Just synonymous with winning in a way that transcends the sport.
I fully realize that he's been on great teams and that unlike players in other sports, guys only play one direction in football.
He's benefited from being with great coaches and great defenses on lots of postseason runs and had historic WRs in tow. And obviously no single football player can dominate a game the way a great basketball player can.
There have been rules changes to help QBs, like the rules changes in basketball that favor perimeter players post-Jordan.
But despite all that, the QB position is the most important in football by far. This Tampa Bay team was 7-5 at one point. How many QBs would take that team on a winning streak and roll into 3 road playoffs games and win it all.
Brady made the difference as he has on many teams in his career.
I don't think any other QB could win 7 SBs even if they had his circumstances. 7 SBs is an impossible standard in the modern era.
If it was just decent play across a decade along with a few postseason SB runs, that'd be something else.
But he's now at 7 Super Bowl wins with 5 MVPs from those games to go along with the rest of his accolades. Brady's regular season accolades compare well with Brees, Marino, Elway, Manning, Rodgers, Montana, Favre etc. But then you add the postseason numbers and that takes him from top 20 to a singular #1 of all time.
And winning the 7th with another team breaks the argument that he was just a product of Belichik's system (as dumb as that argument was; like arguing Jordan and Kobe won because of the triangle).
Not even Montana comes close anymore as a QB.
The only modern football player I used to put on the same level as Brady as of a few years ago was Rice who transcended his position and set an unmatchable benchmark for his position.
But Brady's taken it to another level of winning.
He has become the Jordan or Gretzky of football. Just synonymous with winning in a way that transcends the sport.
I fully realize that he's been on great teams and that unlike players in other sports, guys only play one direction in football.
He's benefited from being with great coaches and great defenses on lots of postseason runs and had historic WRs in tow. And obviously no single football player can dominate a game the way a great basketball player can.
There have been rules changes to help QBs, like the rules changes in basketball that favor perimeter players post-Jordan.
But despite all that, the QB position is the most important in football by far. This Tampa Bay team was 7-5 at one point. How many QBs would take that team on a winning streak and roll into 3 road playoffs games and win it all.
Brady made the difference as he has on many teams in his career.
I don't think any other QB could win 7 SBs even if they had his circumstances. 7 SBs is an impossible standard in the modern era.
GOAT is always difficult to claim as eras present different challenges. Could Brady have had the same type of success in an era playing in the winter mud and slime before prescription turf am dying high tech drainage systems, when you could physically abuse a QB after he threw the ball, when offensive lineman were head slapped, and receivers could be bumped and held until the ball was thrown? Could Montana or even Aikman win as many championships with today's free agency, could Elway be as physical with today's bigger faster stronger players, could Unitas handle the complex defensive schemes faced by today's QB's?
I'm just happy to have witnessed them all play with the exception of Unitas. Actually, I remember when he was a SD Charger but at that age, he was no Brady.
I'm just happy to have witnessed them all play with the exception of Unitas. Actually, I remember when he was a SD Charger but at that age, he was no Brady.
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