Tre

[lunker35]

At what point does he start riding the pine. I love this team and I know Tre has it in him, but he's just lost right now. He's not contributing in any way and he's a detriment at times. It's in his head, but don't we have to stop trying to let him play through it?

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Bench him. Put Ash in there

 

[DonatelloCat]

At what point does he start riding the pine. I love this team and I know Tre has it in him, but he's just lost right now. He's not contributing in any way and he's a detriment at times. It's in his head, but don't we have to stop trying to let him play through it?

I'm sure there's a point (with any player really, if they struggle enough), but I don't think we're there yet. Obviously, yesterday wasn't Tre's best game by any stretch of the imagination, but he still had 8 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists. . . so I think it's a little bit harsh to say he's not contributing in any way.

 

[rwhitney014]

I'm sure there's a point (with any player really, if they struggle enough), but I don't think we're there yet. Obviously, yesterday wasn't Tre's best game by any stretch of the imagination, but he still had 8 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists. . . so I think it's a little bit harsh to say he's not contributing in any way.

I mean, he's shooting 24% from the field over the last 4 games. 14% from 3. 4 assists, 5 TOs. Many of his misses are weird, in-between layup/floaters that are totally off-balance and uncertain. He also pulled a JVZ on a free throw last night out of nowhere.

He's also playing pretty much every minute. Any other player on the roster would be sitting. Maybe CCC doesn't feel like Lindsey or Ash is ready to take over serious minutes yet, but it would really help a lot for Tre to hit some more shots. He's heated up quickly before. Doing so right before this nasty stretch coming up would be nice.

 

[NJCat83588]

Maybe CCC doesn't feel like Lindsey or Ash is ready to take over serious minutes yet, but it would really help a lot for Tre to hit some more shots.

It is pretty clear to me from watching the games that Tre is a better option than either Scottie or Jordan. Neither has done much to earn more playing time. Perhaps Tre comes out of his slump, perhaps he doesn't. But he isn't going to find himself if he's sitting onthe bench and neither of his potential replacements are any better than Tre at his worst.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Tre is averaging 36.6 minutes a game this year -- maybe you give a minute or two more a game to Lindsey and/or Ash. But you certainly don't "bench" Tre. You're not going to find 36 minutes of similar productivity from his backups. His three point shooting percentage is down a bit this year (just under 30 vs. career of 34), but he's averaging more rebounds and assists per game than his career average, and his scoring is up significantly (14 ppg vs. just under 11). Bottom line: he's going to play -- a LOT -- and we need to hope his efficiency improves over time.

 

[IGNORE2]

I can't see why you don't play Lindsey more. If Tre breaks out, great. Someone said, and I agree, that Demps was a great 6th man. So maybe CCC's respect and loyalty keeps Demps starting for a long awhile. Still, cannot see why he is not the first man off the floor - and bring in Lindsey. Then use Demps to spell Mac, as Ash is really more of a 2 than a 1.

(BTW - the only B!G player exceeding Demps MPG is None. No superstar or player from a well coached Power 5 school averages Demps' minutes. And it is not like Demps is a world beater or playing with no depth (unlike Mac). Only B!G players exceeding Mac's minutes - WI Koenig and Hayes - and we saw where that team is going...)

Lindsey still has a nice FG% and wonderful 3PG%, he is better at the line, averages one less rebound than Demps despite playing half the time and his PPG is proportional to Demps based on minutes. The only down side is a higher turnover ratio - but if you counted stupid, low percentage shots as turnovers, then that stat would level out in the least.

Considering that it would be preferable to see Lindsey's development to establish him as the 2 for next year (maybe even giving Ash a year to develop since Law should also see time at the 2) - why not start to lay some heavy minutes on him. Maybe Lindsey stinks up the joint - worse than Demps at present? - ok, start bringing his minutes down and bring more of Demps again...or try Ash. Point being, we won't really know what we have in Lindsey without playing him. Demps is streaky, a senior and slumping.

Best case: Lindsey establishes himself; worst case: next year Ash is competing with a recovering Law for the starting 2 spot next year. Hell, if Lindsey is really not the answer, staff knows to seek another recruit, suggest after the season that Lindsey might consider his options (ala Vassar but with a follow through to secure the schollie upon LIndsey's announcement...) and maybe land a good 5th year C and PG for next year - who knows.

But given that the team is competitive with poor production from the 2, it cannot hurt to see more of Lindsey in B!G play.

Start Demps until some performance dictates otherwise, but get his minutes under 25 and increase Lindsey's time. Domino effect could be to reduce Mac's ridiculous minutes too.

 

[IdahoAlum]

I'd love to see both Mac and Demps' minutes cut to about 30 a game, and I have no problem with Lindsey getting a few more minutes a game. But we're actually getting pretty good production from Demps on the season (granted, he is slumping right now), and his career numbers show he is productive. He's averaging 14 points and 3.5 rebounds and assists a game. That's pretty good, even though he is playing a lot of minutes.

 

[hdhntr1]

I'm sure there's a point (with any player really, if they struggle enough), but I don't think we're there yet. Obviously, yesterday wasn't Tre's best game by any stretch of the imagination, but he still had 8 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists. . . so I think it's a little bit harsh to say he's not contributing in any way.

But the last couple games he is playing more within himself. He limited his shots and he did have three assists as well as some rebounds. Like his game more than a week or so ago.

 

[ricko654321]

I can't see why you don't play Lindsey more. If Tre breaks out, great. Someone said, and I agree, that Demps was a great 6th man. So maybe CCC's respect and loyalty keeps Demps starting for a long awhile. Still, cannot see why he is not the first man off the floor - and bring in Lindsey. Then use Demps to spell Mac, as Ash is really more of a 2 than a 1.

(BTW - the only B!G player exceeding Demps MPG is None. No superstar or player from a well coached Power 5 school averages Demps' minutes. And it is not like Demps is a world beater or playing with no depth (unlike Mac). Only B!G players exceeding Mac's minutes - WI Koenig and Hayes - and we saw where that team is going...)

Lindsey still has a nice FG% and wonderful 3PG%, he is better at the line, averages one less rebound than Demps despite playing half the time and his PPG is proportional to Demps based on minutes. The only down side is a higher turnover ratio - but if you counted stupid, low percentage shots as turnovers, then that stat would level out in the least.

Considering that it would be preferable to see Lindsey's development to establish him as the 2 for next year (maybe even giving Ash a year to develop since Law should also see time at the 2) - why not start to lay some heavy minutes on him. Maybe Lindsey stinks up the joint - worse than Demps at present? - ok, start bringing his minutes down and bring more of Demps again...or try Ash. Point being, we won't really know what we have in Lindsey without playing him. Demps is streaky, a senior and slumping.

Best case: Lindsey establishes himself; worst case: next year Ash is competing with a recovering Law for the starting 2 spot next year. Hell, if Lindsey is really not the answer, staff knows to seek another recruit, suggest after the season that Lindsey might consider his options (ala Vassar but with a follow through to secure the schollie upon LIndsey's announcement...) and maybe land a good 5th year C and PG for next year - who knows.

But given that the team is competitive with poor production from the 2, it cannot hurt to see more of Lindsey in B!G play.

Start Demps until some performance dictates otherwise, but get his minutes under 25 and increase Lindsey's time. Domino effect could be to reduce Mac's ridiculous minutes too.

Don't agree with all of what you wrote, but interesting, if not surprising that Demps and BMac are 1 and 4 in the conference in minutes. For Bulls fans, that is Thibs like. 36.6 mpg is a crazy number. I think I'm with most people in that I'd like to see another ~5 minutes each from Lindsey and Ash to get our starting guards down to the low 30s. I'm still recalling what BMac looked like in the last 3rd of conference season last year and that makes me concerned about what our guards will be late in this year's conference slate. Maybe dead legs are already part of what's affecting Tre.

 

[hdhntr1]

Don't agree with all of what you wrote, but interesting, if not surprising that Demps and BMac are 1 and 4 in the conference in minutes. For Bulls fans, that is Thibs like. 36.6 mpg is a crazy number. I think I'm with most people in that I'd like to see another ~5 minutes each from Lindsey and Ash to get our starting guards down to the low 30s. I'm still recalling what BMac looked like in the last 3rd of conference season last year and that makes me concerned about what our guards will be late in this year's conference slate. Maybe dead legs are already part of what's affecting Tre.

There seems to have been an effort to get BMac a bit of time on the bench early in the game. Demps, however did not seem to get any time

 

[CappyNU]

Tre is averaging 36.6 minutes a game this year -- maybe you give a minute or two more a game to Lindsey and/or Ash. But you certainly don't "bench" Tre. You're not going to find 36 minutes of similar productivity from his backups. His three point shooting percentage is down a bit this year (just under 30 vs. career of 34), but he's averaging more rebounds and assists per game than his career average, and his scoring is up significantly (14 ppg vs. just under 11). Bottom line: he's going to play -- a LOT -- and we need to hope his efficiency improves over time.

Sorry, but this is incorrect, at least for conference play. Considering the weakness of our non-conference schedule, I'm discounting his stats from that. Thus far in conference play, his assist rate is WAY down compared to the last two years, while his rebounding is in line with last year. 36% from 2-point range and 21% from 3-point range while taking the 2nd-most shots on the team is not helping us, in addition to his significant defensive weaknesses. I think it's worth seeing a few more minutes out of Lindsey at the 2. Demps' play certainly hasn't warranted playing 37 minutes per game though.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Well said! Lindsey, Taphorn,and Ash are all better shooters

 

[Dugan15]

A couple thoughts: Like everyone, I have been concerned about Tre's shooting and decision making in conference play. But, I will say this: We will need Tre to come up big for us in the upcoming games. I believe he will break out of it. (Maybe just a prayer, but I think there will be some good games coming.) In addition, did you know that Tre is #1 in the country in fouls committed per 40 minutes at a crazy 0.9. Thanks to Kenpom.com. That is only one small part of playing defense, but whatever his defensive issues are, he is not compounding those with silly fouls.

 

[ricko654321]

A couple thoughts: Like everyone, I have been concerned about Tre's shooting and decision making in conference play. But, I will say this: We will need Tre to come up big for us in the upcoming games. I believe he will break out of it. (Maybe just a prayer, but I think there will be some good games coming.) In addition, did you know that Tre is #1 in the country in fouls committed per 40 minutes at a crazy 0.9. Thanks to Kenpom.com. That is only one small part of playing defense, but whatever his defensive issues are, he is not compounding those with silly fouls.

How in the world did you think to look that one up haha?

I'm with you on Tre though. Just hope he breaks through sooner rather than later, he does not look comfortable out there at all.

 

[CappyNU]

A couple thoughts: Like everyone, I have been concerned about Tre's shooting and decision making in conference play. But, I will say this: We will need Tre to come up big for us in the upcoming games. I believe he will break out of it. (Maybe just a prayer, but I think there will be some good games coming.) In addition, did you know that Tre is #1 in the country in fouls committed per 40 minutes at a crazy 0.9. Thanks to Kenpom.com. That is only one small part of playing defense, but whatever his defensive issues are, he is not compounding those with silly fouls.

He may be #1, but it's hard to commit fouls when you're never close enough to the player to touch him...

 

[mikewebb68]

I think this comes down to ballhandling. Say what you want about Tre, but I feel confident that he is not going to give up the ball on the dribble. I have significantly less confidence when Scottie and Ash handle the ball. And you need that in a 2 guard.

Agreed that he should not be playing 39 minutes per game though.

 

[ricko654321]

I think this comes down to ballhandling. Say what you want about Tre, but I feel confident that he is not going to give up the ball on the dribble. I have significantly less confidence when Scottie and Ash handle the ball. And you need that in a 2 guard.

Agreed that he should not be playing 39 minutes per game though.

Yeah. And related to that, if you take Tre off the floor, we have exactly one player that can create his own shot. It's nice to not have to rely on BMac on every single possession. One point of context to take into account when flattering Scottie for his shooting percentages is that nearly all of those are open looks created by someone else (usually BMac, sometimes Tre, or occasionally in transition). If he took on the role Tre has in the offense I think his #s would be lower. Not to mention that I've seen him turn it over too often when he does try to attack the basket.

 

[Pete Purple]

I believe he will break out of it and soon. I don't follow individual players outside of NU and the B1G, but I think every player goes through this, it's a question of how long it lasts (usually not long). It would be interesting to see if any of our board statisticians can find anything on slumps???