Two personal points of frustration

[Sec.112]

Well, besides the obvious.

1) After BMac left, it regularly took 13-14 seconds for the Cats to get into their offense. It's obvious Law and Lindsey were uncomfortable, but this was maddening.
2) Did Benson play one minute in the second half? If you can't trust your backup for a short time against RUTGERS, something is wrong.

You could tell Pardon was completely gassed with about four minutes left in regulation.

CC's use of the bench this year leaves quite a bit to be desired.

 

[TejasCat]

Well, besides the obvious.

1) After BMac left, it regularly took 13-14 seconds for the Cats to get into their offense. It's obvious Law and Lindsey were uncomfortable, but this was maddening.
2) Did Benson play one minute in the second half? If you can't trust your backup for a short time against RUTGERS, something is wrong.

You could tell Pardon was completely gassed with about four minutes left in regulation.

CC's use of the bench this year leaves quite a bit to be desired.

This was the year we were supposed to be so deep, 9-10 deep.
Do we practice at all without BMac running the show?

Cautiously optimistic on the new talent coming in next year. We need it. Please someone, anyone that can break an opponent down on the dribble and create.

 

[NURoseBowl]

This was the year we were supposed to be so deep, 9-10 deep.
Do we practice at all without BMac running the show?

Cautiously optimistic on the new talent coming in next year. We need it. Please someone, anyone that can break an opponent down on the dribble and create.

And THAT'S where I envision Brown could come in. Sure wish I knew what the real story is behind his essentially "permabench" status.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Seems like we were down to 6 guys last night after BMac left. No wonder we crashed late.

Nice to see Gaines play well, though he had his hands full with Sanders. I thought they could have put Law on him on that last shot.

 

[HawkCat]

And THAT'S where I envision Brown could come in. Sure wish I knew what the real story is behind his essentially "permabench" status.

Aside from hitting some threes in garbage time against Indiana, what is the evidence that Brown is the answer? From my perspective, he doesn't appear to run the offense and is a turnover waiting to happen every time he drives. I just don't get it.

 

[ricko654321]

This was the year we were supposed to be so deep, 9-10 deep.
Do we practice at all without BMac running the show?

Cautiously optimistic on the new talent coming in next year. We need it. Please someone, anyone that can break an opponent down on the dribble and create.

I sort of feel like every single year is the year we are supposed to be 9-10 deep. It's already starting again in threads about lineups for next year, people laying out 2 at every position and talking about depth, it's like an annual exercise. Unfortunately of those 10, 1-2 will be injured, 1-2 will not be develop, and then you usually have about a 50% hit rate on the incoming freshmen. Plus then 1 more might want to transfer. So for better or worse, every season (this is not unique to NU mind you) we end up with a core rotation of max 7 guys.

I do agree though that Collins's bench management has not been great... on the other hand though, the bench has been so awful at times this year that it's not hard to understand why he is reluctant to put them in the game. Sometime you just need to bite the bullet though. And actually last night, the bench played decently in the 1H! And Gaines wasn't bad in the 2H. But as people have noted, the starters just really gassed out from the added burden of not having BMac to run the show on offense.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Aside from hitting some threes in garbage time against Indiana, what is the evidence that Brown is the answer? From my perspective, he doesn't appear to run the offense and is a turnover waiting to happen every time he drives. I just don't get it.

Don't get me wrong, HawkCat. I'm not saying Brown is any sort of savior; it's just that he has demonstrated an attacking mindset and the quicks and willingness to drive to the hole - something that's in pretty short supply on this roster. I guess I'd just like to see this type of player get a chance to play through his mistakes, get some valuable experience and let the game slow down a bit for him. That's not gonna happen on the bench, and at this point, there's not really much left to lose. That is, of course, unless you see us sweeping our way through the Big Ten tournament. As some have suggested, there may still be an injury thing lingering with him . . . who knows? But no, I'm not suggesting he's the be all and end all; just that he's got a useful skillset if he can iron out some of the mistakes . . . and nothing will make that happen faster than live game experience. So assuming he hasn't already decided to transfer, getting some meaningful minutes under his belt can only be a positive going forward, IMO. That's all I'm saying.

 

[CappyNU]

Well, besides the obvious.

1) After BMac left, it regularly took 13-14 seconds for the Cats to get into their offense. It's obvious Law and Lindsey were uncomfortable, but this was maddening.
2) Did Benson play one minute in the second half? If you can't trust your backup for a short time against RUTGERS, something is wrong.

You could tell Pardon was completely gassed with about four minutes left in regulation.

CC's use of the bench this year leaves quite a bit to be desired.

The lack on Benson in the 2nd half is something that stuck out to me. CCC usually gives him at least a couple minutes in the 2nd half to spell Pardon, and that's when Benson has played poorly in the 1st half. Last night Benson was +6 in the 1st half in 4 minutes, and the offense did not grind to a halt like it usually does when he's there, yet he gets zero time in the 2nd half and Pardon runs out of gas against Rutgers' big men.

My own note of frustration - the lineup of Lindsey/Gaines/Law/Falzon/Pardon, which played almost 13 minutes last night, including the final 3:40 of OT, was outscored 25-7 in 19 possessions including 11-0 in OT over 6 possessions. Falzon clearly ran out of gas as well, as he went 0-5 in the 2nd half/OT.

With Mac out of the game, we scored 31 points in 39 possessions, for 0.79 PPP. The worst team in the country scores at a rate of 0.87 PPP. Rutgers scored 42 points in 37 possessions for 1.14 PPP, when they average 0.87 PPP in conference play. U-G-L-Y.

 

[hdhntr1]

This was the year we were supposed to be so deep, 9-10 deep.
Do we practice at all without BMac running the show?

Cautiously optimistic on the new talent coming in next year. We need it. Please someone, anyone that can break an opponent down on the dribble and create.

Well last night by the end of the game, we were short RAP, Ash, BMac, Falzon coming back more slowly and maybe even Hall or Tino. Throw in Brown being big question mark and we were pretty short

 

[NURoseBowl]

The lack on Benson in the 2nd half is something that stuck out to me. CCC usually gives him at least a couple minutes in the 2nd half to spell Pardon, and that's when Benson has played poorly in the 1st half. Last night Benson was +6 in the 1st half in 4 minutes, and the offense did not grind to a halt like it usually does when he's there, yet he gets zero time in the 2nd half and Pardon runs out of gas against Rutgers' big men.

My own note of frustration - the lineup of Lindsey/Gaines/Law/Falzon/Pardon, which played almost 13 minutes last night, including the final 3:40 of OT, was outscored 25-7 in 19 possessions including 11-0 in OT over 6 possessions. Falzon clearly ran out of gas as well, as he went 0-5 in the 2nd half/OT.

With Mac out of the game, we scored 31 points in 39 possessions, for 0.79 PPP. The worst team in the country scores at a rate of 0.87 PPP. Rutgers scored 42 points in 37 possessions for 1.14 PPP, when they average 0.87 PPP in conference play. U-G-L-Y.

Ouch. That is all.

 

[TheC]

The lack on Benson in the 2nd half is something that stuck out to me. CCC usually gives him at least a couple minutes in the 2nd half to spell Pardon, and that's when Benson has played poorly in the 1st half. Last night Benson was +6 in the 1st half in 4 minutes, and the offense did not grind to a halt like it usually does when he's there, yet he gets zero time in the 2nd half and Pardon runs out of gas against Rutgers' big men.

My theory, though I don't have numbers to back it up, is that this new match-up zone we play struggles with Benson on the floor. This defense requires a lot of quick movement and sometimes mismatches (i.e., Pardon/Benson on a guard). Derrerk is quick enough to do all that, but Benson just isn't quick enough for the defense to work.

 

[CappyNU]

Hard to say from the data, but to be honest, considering how bad this Rutgers team is, we should've been able to play man to man defense last night. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered once we were playing 6 guys in the 2nd half and they would've just tired out more quickly.

 

[NUCat320]

My own note of frustration - the lineup of Lindsey/Gaines/Law/Falzon/Pardon, which played almost 13 minutes last night, including the final 3:40 of OT, was outscored 25-7 in 19 possessions including 11-0 in OT over 6 possessions. Falzon clearly ran out of gas as well, as he went 0-5 in the 2nd half/OT.

With Mac out of the game, we scored 31 points in 39 possessions, for 0.79 PPP. The worst team in the country scores at a rate of 0.87 PPP. Rutgers scored 42 points in 37 possessions for 1.14 PPP, when they average 0.87 PPP in conference play. U-G-L-Y.

Where do you get this data?

 

[hdhntr1]

And THAT'S where I envision Brown could come in. Sure wish I knew what the real story is behind his essentially "permabench" status.

Last night he got in for 9 minutes and his performance was nothing to write home about. Did not look like he was the answer. Disappointing really.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Last night he got in for 9 minutes and his performance was nothing to write home about. Did not look like he was the answer. Disappointing really.

No question. I think he has the potential to be a lot better than that, though - better than we've seen in his extremely limited minutes this season. Again, I'm not this giant Brown booster, but I would like to see what he can do - mistakes and all, at this point - in some extended minutes as we play out the string. But none of us (outside of maybe Haywood) know the inside details of what's been going on between him and Collins. There could be much more to it than is outwardly apparent to any of us here.

 

[CappyNU]

Where do you get this data?

I go through the play by play every game and pull out lineup data through that. A number of games this season have some errors where they forget to record substitutions, which was also the case in this game. When that happens I go to the tape to confirm. For example, last night BMac and Brown were shown as having 14 and 9 minutes respectively, however in actuality BMac played 18 minutes and Brown played 5 due to two missed substitutions on the play by play. I can put the spreadsheet up on Google Docs for those who are interested.

 

[CappyNU]

A further breakdown of the game:

BMac pre-injury - NU 8-5, 1.33 PPP/1.00 oPPP, 4 minutes
IB12 in post 1st injury - NU 6-5, 0.75 PPP/0.63 oPPP, 5 minutes
BMac post 1st injury - NU 12-6, 2.00 PPP/0.86 oPPP, 4 minutes
BMac post 2nd injury - Rutgers 14-7, 0.50 PPP/1.00 oPPP, 10 minutes
Rest of 2nd half w/o BMac - Rutgers 26-23, 1.00 PPP/1.18 oPPP, 17 minutes
OT - Rutgers 11-2, 0.25 PPP/1.57 oPPP, 5 minutes

 

[docrugby1]

Aside from hitting some threes in garbage time against Indiana, what is the evidence that Brown is the answer? From my perspective, he doesn't appear to run the offense and is a turnover waiting to happen every time he drives. I just don't get it.

Brown always takes it to the hole and frequently gets his shot blocked. Sanders showed a beautiful step back jumper that every smaller guard should practice and develop

 

[mikewebb68]

And THAT'S where I envision Brown could come in. Sure wish I knew what the real story is behind his essentially "permabench" status.

Look, I like IB, but he was given 9 minutes in the first half to play, and he was awful.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Look, I like IB, but he was given 9 minutes in the first half to play, and he was awful.

No argument there, Mike. It seems to me that Brown has physical tools. Pretty good ones, in fact. His problems (defense, turnovers, forced shots, etc.) are predominantly mental, and that side of the equation can be corrected (or at least improved) by extended, meaningful minutes. I get that practice is the "proving ground", and have to assume he's not showing much there, but there's no substitute for live game experience . . . and at this point, what do we have to lose? At worst, he'd solidify the notion that he really can't contribute much going forward, and at best, he'd show a glimmer of promise that he could be a useful player next year and the year after. Wouldn't be surprised if there were other factors at play here, factors unknown to us. In the end, I trust that CCC knows what he's doing, and will make the appropriate decision(s) regarding Brown as we move forward.

 

[TheC]

No argument there, Mike. It seems to me that Brown has physical tools. Pretty good ones, in fact. His problems (defense, turnovers, forced shots, etc.) are predominantly mental, and that side of the equation can be corrected (or at least improved) by extended, meaningful minutes. I get that practice is the "proving ground", and have to assume he's not showing much there, but there's no substitute for live game experience . . . and at this point, what do we have to lose? At worst, he'd solidify the notion that he really can't contribute much going forward, and at best, he'd show a glimmer of promise that he could be a useful player next year and the year after. Wouldn't be surprised if there were other factors at play here, factors unknown to us. In the end, I trust that CCC knows what he's doing, and will make the appropriate decision(s) regarding Brown as we move forward.

I guess the question is what kind of message does that send to the rest of the team if a guy can just basically do whatever he wants on the court and not follow the system? It would seem like that would be bad for morale. But of course, this whole season seems like its been bad for morale, so who knows.

 

[curdog]

I guess the question is what kind of message does that send to the rest of the team if a guy can just basically do whatever he wants on the court and not follow the system? It would seem like that would be bad for morale. But of course, this whole season seems like its been bad for morale, so who knows.

What system did we have in the 2nd half? NU scored 25 points in whatever system we had, which looked to me like pass it around and give it to Lindsey with 10 seconds on the shot clock and hope something good happens.

I’m not an IB booster, but he should have played more than 5 minutes in this game. In his few minutes on the court, it looked like he was playing scared, knowing he was going to be pullled at his first mistake. Hard to play well with that mindset

 

[docrugby1]

How quickly we forget how valuable IB was last year. There has to be something more to the story

 

[willycat]

How quickly we forget how valuable IB was last year. There has to be something more to the story

Exactly or Collins would be using him a lot, especially now with Mac hurting. I suspect that things will be a bit clearer when the season ends.

 

[mikewebb68]

What system did we have in the 2nd half? NU scored 25 points in whatever system we had, which looked to me like pass it around and give it to Lindsey with 10 seconds on the shot clock and hope something good happens.

I’m not an IB booster, but he should have played more than 5 minutes in this game. In his few minutes on the court, it looked like he was playing scared, knowing he was going to be pullled at his first mistake. Hard to play well with that mindset

He did, he played 9, In he first half. That's a lot. Look, I like IB, but his play in the first half was the reason he didn't get a chance in the second...

 

[Mossreportdos]

Collins is using his bench like Carmody lately and not even using timeouts to give extended rest to anyone. The coaching was an absolute fail against Rutgers. I sat there right next to bench and behind the replay monitor in the front row. I have no idea why Benson had no 2nd half time.

In the end, it seems like a big miscalculation by the NU coaching staff thinking that although the game was close they still had it in control. The missed front end of a 1-1 up six with a little over a minute left cost us the game. At point, our players were gassed and it was game over. Playing Brown and Benson for short stints in the second half could not have made anything worse.