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What can the coaches do to minimize injuries?

FeralFelidae

FeralFelidae

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2003
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I'm far from an expert, but our recent QBs have certainly taken a pounding, with Persa, Colter, and Siemian all sustaining injuries. Painfully, so painfully, losing Persa resulted in the shellacking at the hands of the Illini at Wrigley, and losing Siemian saw us get stomped by the Illini last season in the battle for bowl eligibility. Both losses were just miserable. Granted, their injuries seemed like freak accidents, but Siemian was never really healthy last season and just seemed to take a pounding each game.

I know there are plays that can be called against aggressive defenses (screens) but I don't recall McCall calling those sorts of plays too often. Were defenses aggressive against the 'Cats last season, or was our o-line just simply overmatched? And if the latter, what can we do to better protect our QBs? I really think our playcalling has failed our QBs at times, but I'm not enough of an expert to say it with certainty. I'm interested in your opinions.

What can we do to protect other positions? We suffered wide receiver woes; is that just bad luck, or do we lack depth? I remember a time when Randy Walker recruited lots and lots of receivers, with some people saying he recruited too many. Others said that these were just athletic players and could be moved to other positions. Do we need to recruit more receivers?

Just some off-season frustration, but I'm curious what some of the board's enlightened think.
 
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Great thread! Quarterbacks can't be taking hits! Clayton and Matt need to only use their legs to get more time for passes. You run those guys and we are gonna be 6-6 again. Anyone in Downers Grove tomorrow at noon can see first hand my golf/sports psychology approach as I will be presenting my book, Mastering the Psychology of Golf with Emotional Core Therapy at the PGA Superstore which is having a Health and fitness fair. You need,as a coach for football,examine which relationships cause qb's injuries! Often times it is scrambling or holding onto the ball too long.
 
FeralFelidae said:
I'm far from an expert, but our recent QBs have certainly taken a pounding, with Persa, Colter, and Siemian all sustaining injuries. Painfully, so painfully, losing Persa resulted in the shellacking at the hands of the Illini at Wrigley, and losing Siemian saw us get stomped by the Illini last season in the battle for bowl eligibility. Both losses were just miserable. Granted, their injuries seemed like freak accidents, but Siemian was never really healthy last season and just seemed to take a pounding each game.

I know there are plays that can be called against aggressive defenses (screens) but I don't recall McCall calling those sorts of plays too often. Were defenses aggressive against the 'Cats last season, or was our o-line just simply overmatched? And if the latter, what can we do to better protect our QBs? I really think our playcalling has failed our QBs at times, but I'm not enough of an expert to say it with certainty. I'm interested in your opinions.

What can we do to protect other positions? We suffered wide receiver woes; is that just bad luck, or do we lack depth? I remember a time when Randy Walker recruited lots and lots of receivers, with some people saying he recruited too many. Others said that these were just athletic players and could be moved to other positions. Do we need to recruit more receivers?

Just some off-season frustration, but I'm curious what some of the board's enlightened think.
Click to expand...
Don't forget that Kafka and Bacher sustained injuries too. Fortunately, Kafka stepped in for Bacher and played a nice game and a half after the Indiana debacle and Persa played a lot in the Iowa game where we won when Stanzi went down.

Last season, I think there were 2 issues. 1 our Oline was overmatched and 2 our WRs were overmatched. The WRs couldn't get open which meant TS couldn't get rid of the ball. Combine that with a Oline issues and TRevor got beat up. You also couldn't throw a quick pass on a hot route either unless you're confident the WR sees the same thing as the QB and knows what he has to do

As far as what to do to prevent injuries, CatsDad pointed out the team got a full time nutritionist which will help prevent injuries. I think the team should do Yoga, but gocatsgo has mentioned they do extensive flexibility work. I've talked about the strength and conditioning program as well on the board but I've said what I have to say on that and will drop it.

I've also suggested that we take guys that are undersized and have them gain a bunch of weight so they can play a "bigger" position like a 240 lbs DE gaining 45 lbs and playing DT. I think carrying 45 extra lbs can do bad things to bones and muscles. MRcat all but called me an idiot on this theory... He might be the expert on gaining weight to play DT.


Other than that, I do wonder if we're too ready to be the good guys that don't turn their back on injured high school players into the program that we take players who will contribute less over the course of 4 years because of injuries than another player without medical issues. Colter and Christian Jones both had injuries in high school. Parkker Westphal was supposed to contribute last year but sat out the year having multiple (couldn't find the number but I remember it being absurd) surgeries. Colter was a huge asset to us ON THE FIELD and if Christian Jones doesn't play again, which he will, he'll have had a solid career at NU. I hear Parkker will be contributing in the fall so all three are probably bad examples. I also dont think we should turn our backs on injured recruits. I'm just suggesting that we should be mindful of a recruits injury history before we start recruiting him.
 
Didn't the National Champion last season lose not one but two QBs to injury?

Guys get hurt. Some years more than average, some less.

Persa was standing in the pocket when he threw the game winning TD pass, and ruptured his Achilles. No pressure, no hits. It happens.

Siemian had a sprained ankle last year. He was lost for the season on a QB sneak when he got rolled up upon and tore his ACL. It happens.

Colter got beat up scrambling. That was his game. He was a small guy and eventually the hits took their toll.
 
NJCat said:
Didn't the National Champion last season lose not one but two QBs to injury?

Guys get hurt. Some years more than average, some less.

Persa was standing in the pocket when he threw the game winning TD pass, and ruptured his Achilles. No pressure, no hits. It happens.

Siemian had a sprained ankle last year. He was lost for the season on a QB sneak when he got rolled up upon and tore his ACL. It happens.

Colter got beat up scrambling. That was his game. He was a small guy and eventually the hits took their toll.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not Ohio State was UNBELIEVABLY healthy last year. They didn't lose many starts Except for the QBs. QBs are QBs and are great for ESPN and BTN to talk about but the rest of the team was ready to play.

By the end of the season, their healthy Oline and Ezekiel Elliot were running people over. Their QBs had all day in the pocket between their Oline's ability and the defense worrying about the run. Combine that with their WRs being excellent at deep routes they had a special combination.

What was Oregon's injury/suspension situation going into the title game? They lost 2 WRs to a suspension and an injury and a receiving TE to a knee injury. That killed their spread attack and made defending them a lot easier for OSU. OSU was the healthy team going into the title game.
 
shakes3858 said:
Don't forget that Kafka and Bacher sustained injuries too. Fortunately, Kafka stepped in for Bacher and played a nice game and a half after the Indiana debacle and Persa played a lot in the Iowa game where we won when Stanzi went down.

Last season, I think there were 2 issues. 1 our Oline was overmatched and 2 our WRs were overmatched. The WRs couldn't get open which meant TS couldn't get rid of the ball. Combine that with a Oline issues and TRevor got beat up. You also couldn't throw a quick pass on a hot route either unless you're confident the WR sees the same thing as the QB and knows what he has to do

As far as what to do to prevent injuries, CatsDad pointed out the team got a full time nutritionist which will help prevent injuries. I think the team should do Yoga, but gocatsgo has mentioned they do extensive flexibility work. I've talked about the strength and conditioning program as well on the board but I've said what I have to say on that and will drop it.

I've also suggested that we take guys that are undersized and have them gain a bunch of weight so they can play a "bigger" position like a 240 lbs DE gaining 45 lbs and playing DT. I think carrying 45 extra lbs can do bad things to bones and muscles. MRcat all but called me an idiot on this theory... He might be the expert on gaining weight to play DT.


Other than that, I do wonder if we're too ready to be the good guys that don't turn their back on injured high school players into the program that we take players who will contribute less over the course of 4 years because of injuries than another player without medical issues. Colter and Christian Jones both had injuries in high school. Parkker Westphal was supposed to contribute last year but sat out the year having multiple (couldn't find the number but I remember it being absurd) surgeries. Colter was a huge asset to us ON THE FIELD and if Christian Jones doesn't play again, which he will, he'll have had a solid career at NU. I hear Parkker will be contributing in the fall so all three are probably bad examples. I also dont think we should turn our backs on injured recruits. I'm just suggesting that we should be mindful of a recruits injury history before we start recruiting him.
Click to expand...

I think your point about taking a careful look at guys who sustain injuries in HS is a good one. Seems like some guys are just injury prone or should I say some guys are not injury prone. It would make sense that just as some guys are faster, some might have softer tissue or more brittle bones. I had a friend who was pound for pound the strongest man I ever knew but he was plagued with broken bones all his life. He was always in a cast it seemed like. His sons were great athletes but also had many breaks.

I think the bottom line for keeping the QB from getting beat up is building a better line. Unless a QB is a scrambler, which has it's own dangers ala Colter, he can't do much to help the line. Quick reads are great but if that is all he has got, the D's will cheat up on the line and take that away.
 
Teams need to get away fron the heavy lifitng. Too much lifting overbuilds players and make their muscles stronger than their frames/ligaments.

Stanford got away from that and their injuries went down over 80% in a few years
 
saran said:
Teams need to get away fron the heavy lifitng. Too much lifting overbuilds players and make their muscles stronger than their frames/ligaments.

Stanford got away from that and their injuries went down over 80% in a few years
Click to expand...

Interesting. Yet Stanford has guys who look really solid and physical and play a power football game. How do they build strength without heavy lifting?
 
NJCat said:
Interesting. Yet Stanford has guys who look really solid and physical and play a power football game. How do they build strength without heavy lifting?
Click to expand...
Maybe they do more reps at lighter weights. When I was into weight lifting, I could only bench 250 pounds once but I could do quite a few reps at 200. That might be the difference between lifting and heavy lifting. Just speculating.
 
Stanford still lifts but they emphasize form and function over how many plates are on the bar. They do lots of stretching exercises. Here's a NY TImes artilce about Stanford from 2013:


"From 2006, the year before Turley arrived on the Farm, as Stanford’s campus is known, through last season, the number of games missed because of injury on the two-deep roster dropped by 87 percent. In 2012, only two Cardinal players required season-ending or postseason surgical repair; this year, only one....

Although Stanford players may not perform as well in the bench press, or in the 40-yard dash at the N.F.L. combine, they often top the charts on F.M.S. scores. Asked for an example, Turley cited Richard Sherman, a fifth-round pick who became a dominant cornerback for the Seattle Seahawks.

Sherman arrived at Stanford before Turley, and he remembered all the “gruesome injuries” and teammates lost for the season. He still applies many of the techniques he learned at Stanford, like the core board.

“We have an advantage when we get into the N.F.L.,” Sherman said. “It shows you how little scouts know in their assessments. I’ll roll with Shannon Turley.”

Stanford’s Distinct Training Regimen Redefines Strength
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/s...training-regimen-redefines-strength.html?_r=0


NJCat said:
Interesting. Yet Stanford has guys who look really solid and physical and play a power football game. How do they build strength without heavy lifting?
Click to expand...
 
saran said:
Stanford still lifts but they emphasize form and function over how many plates are on the bar. They do lots of stretching exercises. Here's a NY TImes artilce about Stanford from 2013:


"From 2006, the year before Turley arrived on the Farm, as Stanford’s campus is known, through last season, the number of games missed because of injury on the two-deep roster dropped by 87 percent. In 2012, only two Cardinal players required season-ending or postseason surgical repair; this year, only one....

Although Stanford players may not perform as well in the bench press, or in the 40-yard dash at the N.F.L. combine, they often top the charts on F.M.S. scores. Asked for an example, Turley cited Richard Sherman, a fifth-round pick who became a dominant cornerback for the Seattle Seahawks.

Sherman arrived at Stanford before Turley, and he remembered all the “gruesome injuries” and teammates lost for the season. He still applies many of the techniques he learned at Stanford, like the core board.

“We have an advantage when we get into the N.F.L.,” Sherman said. “It shows you how little scouts know in their assessments. I’ll roll with Shannon Turley.”

Stanford’s Distinct Training Regimen Redefines Strength
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/s...training-regimen-redefines-strength.html?_r=0
Click to expand...

"Winning edge", the new training program your head coach put into place, emphasizes functional strength training.
 
I doubt college football will look like it does ten years from now! Too many neck ,back, and knee injuries! I wouldn't want my kid to play division one!
 
FakeFitz said:
Jay Hooten became heat of Football strength and Conditioning in 2011. Winning Edge started just after that.
Click to expand...

So we can't say that Winning Edge reduced injuries. 2012 was great (few injuries), 2013 and 2014 not so great. Whatever Stanford is doing seems to work.
 
NJCat said:
So we can't say that Winning Edge reduced injuries. 2012 was great (few injuries), 2013 and 2014 not so great. Whatever Stanford is doing seems to work.
Click to expand...

The move to an emphasis on functional movement coincided with the decrease in injuries in 2012. 2013 and 2014 have obviously been a different story, though most of the injuries have been more of the traumatic variety than muscular issues.
 
ACL and other knee injuries are not due to muscle strength.
 
shakes3858 said:
Then what are they from? A lack of proper nutrition (Milk builds strong bones type of thing), over training, under training, lack of flexibility?
Click to expand...

Unless it's a contact injury (in which case it is obviously due to the application of external force), knee injuries are usually simply due to the player's anatomy and circumstances lining up in a very unfortunate way. For instance, CJones was more likely to suffer a non-contact ACL injury due to his previous injury. I'm pretty sure it was the same knee as his high school injury, but even if it were the opposite it would hint at a susceptibility to such injuries.
 
gocatsgo2003 said:
The move to an emphasis on functional movement coincided with the decrease in injuries in 2012. 2013 and 2014 have obviously been a different story, though most of the injuries have been more of the traumatic variety than muscular issues.
Click to expand...

You can't argue for the positive effect and ignore injuries that don't fit the theory. I actually don't believe the Stanford training approach has any effect one way or the other.
 
NJCat said:
You can't argue for the positive effect and ignore injuries that don't fit the theory. I actually don't believe the Stanford training approach has any effect one way or the other.
Click to expand...


He's not arguing for one and ignoring the other. He's saying they're different different types of injuries, with one type being treated to training technique and the other related to direct football contact. Is your belief supported by some knowledge of training techniques? My guess is no.
 
SciCat said:
He's not arguing for one and ignoring the other. He's saying they're different different types of injuries, with one type being treated to training technique and the other related to direct football contact. Is your belief supported by some knowledge of training techniques? My guess is no.
Click to expand...

This. Besides Campbell's prolonged struggles with his hamstring, the vast majority of injuries I'm aware of have been traumatic (i.e. breaks, sprains, tears, etc.) opposed to soft tissue/muscle injuries (i.e. strains, pulls, etc.). We were very lucky to largely avoid both type of injuries in 2012, then had a whole bunch accumulate in 2013 and 2014.

Fingers crossed that 2015 looks more like 2012 than the last two years.
 
Oh they can be - that's a reason why steroid users have higher injury rates. Ligaments, tendons, bones etc. don't keep up with overdeveloped muscles. That's why juicers are always ripping pecs, biceps. triceps etc. Increasing a players weight and power beyond the natural "envelope" of a players physique is dangerous. Look how juicers like Shawn Merriman and Brian Cushing fall apart. If you put a high powered engine into an economy sedan you would get problems in other systems and that increase wear on brakes, steering, suspension etc.

Think of Dan Persa, a compact weight room iron man who lifts outside his "package" and wrecks his achilles celebrating. No surprise achillies injuries have become a plague in NFL. Guys are over-developing in static weight exercises and paying the price when at velocity - and with overuse/overstress


Achilles Tendon Tears Plaguing NFL Teams After Week 1
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2192017-achilles-tendon-tears-plaguing-nfl-teams-after-week-1


Gladeskat said:
ACL and other knee injuries are not due to muscle strength.
Click to expand...
.
 
saran said:
Oh they can be - that's a reason why steroid users have higher injury rates. Ligaments, tendons, bones etc. don't keep up with overdeveloped muscles. That's why juicers are always ripping pecs, biceps. triceps etc. Increasing a players weight and power beyond the natural "envelope" of a players physique is dangerous. Look how juicers like Shawn Merriman and Brian Cushing fall apart. If you put a high powered engine into an economy sedan you would get problems in other systems and that increase wear on brakes, steering, suspension etc.

Think of Dan Persa, a compact weight room iron man who lifts outside his "package" and wrecks his achilles celebrating. No surprise achillies injuries have become a plague in NFL. Guys are over-developing in static weight exercises and paying the price when at velocity - and with overuse/overstress


Achilles Tendon Tears Plaguing NFL Teams After Week 1
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2192017-achilles-tendon-tears-plaguing-nfl-teams-after-week-1



.
Click to expand...

That's more muscular imbalance, not necessarily muscular strength.
 
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ACL injuries are caused by a shearing force on the knee. How is that caused by muscular imbalance?
 
Gladeskat said:
ACL injuries are caused by a shearing force on the knee. How is that caused by muscular imbalance?
Click to expand...

I was referring more to rupturing/tearing large muscles, but knee injuries can surely be in no small part due to imbalance of strength/musculature.
 
Lots of people idealize college and pro football players needlessly. Football,just like boxing and wrestling,which I excelled at (strarting at Northwestern wrestling and lettering as a true Frosh) also, three time Chicago Park District finalist and champion. All are quasi barbaric sports. How many of you would let your loved ones play college football or wrestling. I had five major surgeries by the age of 26! When you are 50,60,70 you will need those limbs everyday. Lots of these coaches make millions,while their players face chronic pain. I've been there,done that! Let's call and see sports for what they are! Only when we speak the truth can really grow and learn from our mistakes.
 
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Gladeskat said:
ACL injuries are caused by a shearing force on the knee. How is that caused by muscular imbalance?
Click to expand...
But can't the incidence of ACL injuries be reduced by improving the strength and flexibility of the muscles around the knee? Like Hamstrings?
 
hdhntr1 said:
But can't the incidence of ACL injuries be reduced by improving the strength and flexibility of the muscles around the knee? Like Hamstrings?
Click to expand...
Or can you put strain on the ACL by over training or training with bad form? I imagine it like a rope being frayed. A rope frays and frays, but you don't notice it until it snaps which may be due to a shearing force... kind of like the rope breaking when putting a heavier load on it or making a fast tug.
 
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