What is the Northwestern All Time Starting 5??

[Turk]

I've followed NU basketball for about 10 years now, and I only have limited history. I casually followed them maybe 10 years prior to that. Based on that time, I'd say,

Center: Eshmeyer
F: Shurna
F: Coble
G: Juice
G: Crawford

Not sure of names like Moore and a few others who I know were good but I have no idea what position they play.

 

[NJCat]

I've followed NU basketball for about 10 years now, and I only have limited history. I casually followed them maybe 10 years prior to that. Based on that time, I'd say,

Center: Eshmeyer
F: Shurna
F: Coble
G: Juice
G: Crawford

Not sure of names like Moore and a few others who I know were good but I have no idea what position they play.

I'd replace Drew with Billy McKinney. Amazing shooting guard. Would still hold the all-time points record if there was a 3 point shot in his day. He is the second best player I have seen in person at NU, after Esch.

 

[pawildcat]

Otto Graham wasn't bad (All-American).

 

[julescat]

Billy McKinney without a doubt.

 

[Medill90]

Stack is the best forward to have played for NU.

 

[NJCat]

Stack is the best forward to have played for NU.

Loved Stack and the '82-83 team, but Shuna was much better.

 

[Styre]

Otto Graham wasn't bad (All-American).

It's hard to have these conversations because it's hard to compare eras. Joe Reiff was a two-time All-American center (1931, 1933) who twice led the Big Ten in scoring and led NU to two Big Ten titles and one Helms national title. That's a much better resume than Esch... but Reiff was 6'3 and leading the league in scoring back then meant scoring 10 points a game. So was he our best center ever? I have no idea.

 

[docrugby1]

Center -Esch
PF-Don Adams
SF-Shurna
G- McKinney
G Burns

 

[Medill90]

Loved Stack and the '82-83 team, but Shuna was much better.

Before I posted I deleted "power". Stack did play the 4 but he was undersized for the era. They played different positions and had very different roles.

Shurna was a three who too often was asked to play 4 and rarely 5. He was a better scorer than Stack, but not a better defender and not a better all around player, IMO.

 

[NUCat320]

Billy McKinney without a doubt.

When does that PG shift to Br. Mac? Or can you play Mac and Mac (or, accurately, Mc and Mc) side by side?

 

[willycat]

It's hard to have these conversations because it's hard to compare eras. Joe Reiff was a two-time All-American center (1931, 1933) who twice led the Big Ten in scoring and led NU to two Big Ten titles and one Helms national title. That's a much better resume than Esch... but Reiff was 6'3 and leading the league in scoring back then meant scoring 10 points a game. So was he our best center ever? I have no idea.

Think you would have to consider some guys from those Bill Rohr coached teams. Maybe Joe Ruklick, Willie Jones, Nick mantis or Phil Warren, for example. Probably should put a dividing line of guys who played prior to the 80's and after.

 

[TheC]

Think you would have to consider some guys from those Bill Rohr coached teams. Maybe Joe Ruklick, Willie Jones, Nick mantis or Phil Warren, for example. Probably should put a dividing line of guys who played prior to the 80's and after.

What's a "prior to the 80's"???

 

[julescat]

When does that PG shift to Br. Mac? Or can you play Mac and Mac (or, accurately, Mc and Mc) side by side?

McIntosh is a nice guard but Billy McKinney was really special. No comparison for me.

 

[willycat]

What's a "prior to the 80's"???

I will spell it out for you. How about a NU best starting 5 from the 30's through the 70's and then another top 5 from the 80's through 2016. Or maybe a top 5 of before the shot clock or 3 point FG and another group after those dates. Happy now?

 

[Medill90]

I will spell it out for you. How about a NU best starting 5 from the 30's through the 70's and then another top 5 from the 80's through 2016. Or maybe a top 5 of before the shot clock or 3 point FG and another group after those dates. Happy now?

I think it's a valid point and the line should be drawn at around 1985. It took a few years for the three pointer to be adopted in a serious way. After which, it completely changed the game.

 

[julescat]

When does that PG shift to Br. Mac? Or can you play Mac and Mac (or, accurately, Mc and Mc) side by side?

McKinney would be my other guard and I would have a hard time not having Jitim Young in my favorite 5.

 

[GOUNUII]

McKinney would be my other guard and I would have a hard time not having Jitim Young in my favorite 5.

How about an all time team?
1.Esch
2.Pardon (seriously...roster needs a back-up center)
3.Pitts
4.Adams
5.Shurna
6.Lambiotte (Coble is disqualified ... same for Walters and Carlisle)
7.Stack
8.Crawford
9.Nelloms
10. Roberson (great player/athlete on very bad teams)
11.Young
12.McKinney
13. Juice

Honorable Mention: Morris and Vukusic

GOUNUII

 

[NJCat]

How about an all time team?
1.Esch
2.Pardon (seriously...roster needs a back-up center)
3.Pitts
4.Adams
5.Shurna
6.Lambiotte (Coble is disqualified ... same for Walters and Carlisle)
7.Stack
8.Crawford
9.Nelloms
10. Roberson (great player/athlete on very bad teams)
11.Young
12.McKinney
13. Juice

Honorable Mention: Morris and Vukusic

GOUNUII

Any list that doesn't have Olah as back-up Center needs serious work.....

 

[GOUNUII]

Any list that doesn't have Olah as back-up Center needs serious work.....

Not really. While there is always room for debate in selecting any all-time team, characterizing Olah's omission as justifying "serious work" doesn't fall within the parameters of a reasonable debate. Perhaps you're just "Trumping" me, but on the chance you're serious, you need to go back to basketball school and brush up on your fundamentals. Pardon was a stretch only because of his youth. Kinda like Fitz was when he was selected to replace Walker. But that didn't make Fitz the wrong choice. And the same is true with Pardon. The kid is going to be special at a position with little competition in the history of NU basketball. If not Pardon, I would have selected Rankin and then Schwabe before Olah. We give up too much with Olah on the floor to rank him higher than 4th on the all-time list. And comparing Pardon and Olah at the same stage in their careers is not a kind comparison for Alex. Pardon will prove to be a huge upgrade and Collins knows it.

GOUNUII

 

[TheC]

I will spell it out for you. How about a NU best starting 5 from the 30's through the 70's and then another top 5 from the 80's through 2016. Or maybe a top 5 of before the shot clock or 3 point FG and another group after those dates. Happy now?

I was just making a dumb joke at the expense of the older posters. I can do that because I have become one of them!

 

[NJCat]

Not really. While there is always room for debate in selecting any all-time team, characterizing Olah's omission as justifying "serious work" doesn't fall within the parameters of a reasonable debate. Perhaps you're just "Trumping" me, but on the chance you're serious, you need to go back to basketball school and brush up on your fundamentals. Pardon was a stretch only because of his youth. Kinda like Fitz was when he was selected to replace Walker. But that didn't make Fitz the wrong choice. And the same is true with Pardon. The kid is going to be special at a position with little competition in the history of NU basketball. If not Pardon, I would have selected Rankin and then Schwabe before Olah. We give up too much with Olah on the floor to rank him higher than 4th on the all-time list. And comparing Pardon and Olah at the same stage in their careers is not a kind comparison for Alex. Pardon will prove to be a huge upgrade and Collins knows it.

GOUNUII

He may be all you say and more one day. But you are guessing about the future. Right now, he's miles behind Alex, and an "All Time" team is based on past performance, not your hopes and dreams about the future. Needs serious work.

 

[willycat]

I was just making a dumb joke at the expense of the older posters. I can do that because I have become one of them!

Fine, I'm one of those old guys as well but think any kind of all star team needs to broken into the era when they played. The earlier group would have to include Rucklik, McKinney, Pitts, Davis, Burns, Rankin and maybe Falk. Not sure which group Stack fits in with but he definitely belongs. The later guys would have to include Esch, Nelloms(?) Shurna, Coble, Vukusic and of course Jitim.

 

[TheC]

Fine, I'm one of those old guys as well but think any kind of all star team needs to broken into the era when they played. The earlier group would have to include Rucklik, McKinney, Pitts, Davis, Burns, Rankin and maybe Falk. Not sure which group Stack fits in with but he definitely belongs. The later guys would have to include Esch, Nelloms(?) Shurna, Coble, Vukusic and of course Jitim.

Wait... Kevin Rankin? He wasn't an old guy. He was younger than me dammit! Please say you meant a different Rankin.

I still think the most talented Cat I saw play was Rex Walters. Too bad he left us for Kansas.

 

[GOUNUII]

He may be all you say and more one day. But you are guessing about the future. Right now, he's miles behind Alex, and an "All Time" team is based on past performance, not your hopes and dreams about the future. Needs serious work.

No guesswork NJCat. Pardon has already eclipsed Olah in a number of statistical categories.
1. Career high single game points. Pardon wins with 3 more years to pad his lead.
2. Career high single game rebounds. Ditto.
3. Career offensive advanced stats rating. Pardon buries Olah 121.5 to 103.5
4. Career defensive advanced stats rating. Dead heat 99.5 to 99.4
5. Career points per 40 minutes average. Pardon wins again 16.4 to 14.5
6. Career roster competition for minutes. JVZ and Olah for Pardon. Olah? ... zero competition first 3 years in program.

Hardly a situation that places Pardon "miles behind" Olah based on how well they have played to date.

GOUNUII

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

He may be all you say and more one day. But you are guessing about the future. Right now, he's miles behind Alex, and an "All Time" team is based on past performance, not your hopes and dreams about the future. Needs serious work.

I agree. No way Pardon deserves a mention. He had one "out of this world" performance and came back down to earth. (Advanced) statistics don't mean much when you don't get consistent minutes. Just not enough data to draw definitive conclusions (outside of who the coaching staff trusts most). I'm excited about Pardon's potential and thrilled he has three more years to work his way onto this type of list, but yeah, not even close to all-time NU.

I'd personally go with Rankin as my back up and then Alex to round out the bench.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

McIntosh looks like he belongs on list.

 

[Turk]

I forgot about Jitim. He has to be on there.

 

[MotownMedilldo]

Wait... Kevin Rankin? He wasn't an old guy. He was younger than me dammit! Please say you meant a different Rankin.

I still think the most talented Cat I saw play was Rex Walters. Too bad he left us for Kansas.

Speaking of Rex Walters, he's out as USF coach. I found these lines most ironic:

"Walters’ tenure was marked by an inordinate number of players leaving the program before their eligibility expired.

The two most notable instances: after the 2011-12 season, when six players transferred."

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Rex-Walters-out-as-USF-basketball-coach-6879872.php

 

[ubercat]

Speaking of Rex Walters, he's out as USF coach. I found these lines most ironic:

"Walters’ tenure was marked by an inordinate number of players leaving the program before their eligibility expired.

The two most notable instances: after the 2011-12 season, when six players transferred."

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Rex-Walters-out-as-USF-basketball-coach-6879872.php

Karma.

 

[MotownMedilldo]

Karma.

Indeed!

 

[hdhntr1]

Not really. While there is always room for debate in selecting any all-time team, characterizing Olah's omission as justifying "serious work" doesn't fall within the parameters of a reasonable debate. Perhaps you're just "Trumping" me, but on the chance you're serious, you need to go back to basketball school and brush up on your fundamentals. Pardon was a stretch only because of his youth. Kinda like Fitz was when he was selected to replace Walker. But that didn't make Fitz the wrong choice. And the same is true with Pardon. The kid is going to be special at a position with little competition in the history of NU basketball. If not Pardon, I would have selected Rankin and then Schwabe before Olah. We give up too much with Olah on the floor to rank him higher than 4th on the all-time list. And comparing Pardon and Olah at the same stage in their careers is not a kind comparison for Alex. Pardon will prove to be a huge upgrade and Collins knows it.

GOUNUII

If he does not end up being behind Benson.

 

[clarificationcat]

If he does not end up being behind Benson.

I don't think that's going to happen, at least for a couple of years. I get the impression that Benson will need some time to continue to get stronger and develop his post moves against equally big players. I hope I am wrong because it would be great to have two good big men on the roster for the next 3 years.

 

[Gladeskat]

I don't think that's going to happen, at least for a couple of years. I get the impression that Benson will need some time to continue to get stronger and develop his post moves against equally big players. I hope I am wrong because it would be great to have two good big men on the roster for the next 3 years.

From what little I've seen of Benson's post moves in previous seasons, he's going to have to work on elevating his release point on his shots or he'll be eating a lot of Rawlings burgers in college.

I hope he's working on this and we end up both wrong. He seems to be having a good season this year.

Just watched a video from this year, he's improved quite a bit with his release point. He shows some nice versatility, too. I hope he grows another inch.

 

[Medill90]

From what little I've seen of Benson's post moves in previous seasons, he's going to have to work on elevating his release point on his shots or he'll be eating a lot of Rawlings burgers in college.

I hope he's working on this and we end up both wrong. He seems to be having a good season this year.

Just watched a video from this year, he's improved quite a bit with his release point. He shows some nice versatility, too. I hope he grows another inch.

I'd love to know if he's 6' 9" or 6' 11" since coverage has him at both. I live in the Chicago area and reports about his games this season is that he's constantly doubled but does well with it. Early on he was a POY candidate by it's rare in Illinois that a center is chosen for that.