i didnt say it would devalue the degree. Just said i dont care to watch non student athletes. At that point, you are following the Seinfeld observation and are simply "rooting for laundry "
To 1, 2, 3, and 5 - or maybe it is because all these people (Pat Ryan, Morty and Bienen, Pat Fitz, Phillips) actually believe in maintaining admissions standards to some extent as well. Did that cross your mind?
YES! This exactly. Look at our #'s for players in recruiting under Collins. Trust me - admissions / recruiting is not the problem here.Reasonable people can disagree, and I certainly do not have the insight into the program that others on here do. (Although I did interview Tex Winter 40 years ago and he complained to me about admissions back then. -But the one thing I can't get past is the idea that the President of the University can't go have a talk with the head of admissions and make a reasonable case for reasonable admissions standards for athletes. I just can't get my head around the idea that he is that powerless. And how is he that powerless? Is there some kind of mandate or dictate from the Board of Trustees that the President can't talk to admissions? Maybe there is, I don't know. But that's one area that defies logic.
The other issue I have is that coaches, or supporters of coaches, can always use admissions as a scapegoat, but by all accounts (numbers of offers from other Big Ten schools, star rankings, testimonials of Chris Collins supporters), Collins appears to have been able to recruit more talent than any of his predecessors. And the fact that NU has been in so many close games over the last two years is further testimony that NU has the talent to compete. And yet they can't seem to win games. That is always a red flag for me -- good coaches figure out how to win close games. That, to me, is the definition of a good coach. Not a good recruiter, not a good "program builder" -- but somebody who knows what buttons to push in order to get the W.
It's one reason I don't take much comfort in all the "close loses" and halftime leads lost that seem to lead others to the Cubs' forever motto, "Wait 'Til Next Year."
Don't think anyone said that NU's Admission Standards are evil, just unrealistic. If they are going to play in a Power 5 Conference then the object should be winning lots of games , not winning only half of them. A little compromise at schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, ND, B.U. and Virginia sure hasn't hurt their ranking as high academic school. Having one or two BB players and a half dozen FB guys where admissions compromised wouldn't hurt NU either. Also seems that the Ryan name is on at least three of NU"s buildings. Just saying.
I would be very surprised if any part of the negotiation with Pat Ryan on fundraising for arena or facilities projects is oriented around naming rights. I have no knowledge here so certainly could be wrong, but that is just not the impression I get. I suspect it goes something like this:
To be clear, I'm on board with tweaking at the margin, and allowing a bit more flexibility with 1-2 players per year that may be below current standard but we still think are bright enough to manage the course load in addition to their athletics responsibilities. It's hard to say with confidence what the line should be bc obviously I don't really know where the line is now (so me speculating on exactly what or where would just be unsupported bloviating). I'm just strongly against a wholesale change in the admissions approach, ie going to the Duke philosophy.
But my point is that we have gotten a decent number of highly rated guys to commit. Some are still on our roster. It hasn't translated to success on the floor last two years. I don't think recruiting is the primary issue.
It is not just about bringing in one or two good players. It is about being to put together enough of the right pieces at the right time. We have long shown that we can recruit descent wings. But we have always had problems recruiting guards (especially PGs) And also to some extent true PFs as well. It stretches far beyond CCC and was true under BC and even before. CCC has continued to be able to recruit Wings. He has tried to address the guard position by trying tweeners such as Vassar and Brown but it did not really work. But now after a couple start and stall issues such as Lathon and Bamisle, he seems to be getting a handle on the position. You need the complete team to really compete and to win instead of lose those close games. I see us in a better position going forward than any time in the pastReasonable people can disagree, and I certainly do not have the insight into the program that others on here do. (Although I did interview Tex Winter 40 years ago and he complained to me about admissions back then. -
The other issue I have is that coaches, or supporters of coaches, can always use admissions as a scapegoat, but by all accounts (numbers of offers from other Big Ten schools, star rankings, testimonials of Chris Collins supporters), Collins appears to have been able to recruit more talent than any of his predecessors. And the fact that NU has been in so many close games over the last two years is further testimony that NU has the talent to compete. And yet they can't seem to win games. That is always a red flag for me -- good coaches figure out how to win close games. That, to me, is the definition of a good coach. Not a good recruiter, not a good "program builder" -- but somebody who knows what buttons to push in order to get the W.
It's one reason I don't take much comfort in all the "close loses" and halftime leads lost that seem to lead others to the Cubs' forever motto, "Wait 'Til Next Year."
I would say they should have latitude until they start bringing in guys who cannot get through
We had a FB starting center (was it King) that had to leave and go to Jr College or something for a year or so to get his grades back in order and then he came back to NU to finish and play his final couple years
He was a first time HC and he got somewhat lucky early. But the problem with NU has always been more about the PG position than anything. We have generally been able to bring in descent wings but the guard positions, especially PG have been a problem. And without a solid PG, you are not going to win. I would guess that you would find that the average high level PG recruit tends to have lower scores than other positions (sort of like WR or DB in FB). Take a look at the top PGs around the conference and tell me how many could get through NU admissions. My guess is not many. So for the most important position on the floor, we have a very small pool to draw from. Then bad luck (injuries, issues with Lathon etc took their toll. And you end up with what we have seen the last couple years. Good news is that it looks like we are resolving that issue with guys coming in.
Similar but you said remains satisfactory which leave open interpretation. To some, it is being able to have a 3.o average. I was just clarifying the level of what satisfactory means to me
Are you a NU grad? I notice a slight ( maybe not so slight) variance on this topic between grads and non-grads. I think non-grads predominantly want latitude to get close to a level playing field within reason. Some Grads seem to be open to a case by case exceptions but generally do not want to become Duke. Let’s face it, the fan support, BMOC vibe, winning history doesn’t exactly make NU an easy sell for CCC. Even If admissions are relaxed, CCC has his work cut out for him.
Unless Collins can get a few of the kids in , that admissions blocks he will eventually leave and no good coach will want the job.
Possibly. I think unless he starts building more competitive teams and having winning seasons, he will leave. Or be asked to leave. It will probably be mutual and sad if/when it happens. But I think he is ultra competitive and he won’t want to leave until he feels successful or completely defeated.
Or you root for another team. If just winning is your goal, you can always become a Duke or Kentucky fan.
Yeah I'm with you on this - I don't think there is any position (PG, wing, forward, center) that is particularly hard to recruit with higher admissions standards. They all are tougher than if you have baseline NCAA admissions standards. It's just that (as you precisely note) it is more difficult to put it all together at the same time.
I never said not to. Just pointing out the difficulty we have had recruiting the position. Typically we have not had more than one viable PG in the system at a time. How would we have done during the four NIT years if we had not had Michael Thompson or if he had gotten injured? Now consider that two years ago BM got injured just before BIG season really got underway. Last year we had no viable PG after the Lathon issue. (Greer was a reasonable pickup but was not ready for the posiiton) and this year where we were starting to develop on and got sidelined because of injury and you see why we are where we are. Fortunately going forward, we are in better position than we have been for a while.
