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What!???

JoeWildcat

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jul 31, 2001
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I just got an email from NU announcing all the great things being done on campus (mainly buildings), but the lakefront athletic facility isn't even mentioned! Did I miss something? What's going on?
 
According to Turk, Sheffield, and xbobx, we're never ever getting a lakeside athletic facility because Fitz and Phillips can't raise money.
 
Is there an alternative story, realcat?

As someone mentioned over the weekend, "I'm just ready to see the starting line."

This post was edited on 2/25 7:00 PM by NUCat320
 
Perhaps they are just facing facts. Even the great NU may not be able to get permission to build such a large facility so close to the lake.
 
Originally posted by Deeringfish:
Perhaps they are just facing facts. Even the great NU may not be able to get permission to build such a large facility so close to the lake.
We feel your pain. Here in Alaska we are not even being allowed to poke some little holes in the ground to extract oil to help keep our fellow Americans warm, employed, and energy independent.
 
Originally posted by Alaskawildkat:

Originally posted by Deeringfish:
Perhaps they are just facing facts. Even the great NU may not be able to get permission to build such a large facility so close to the lake.
We feel your pain. Here in Alaska we are not even being allowed to poke some little holes in the ground to extract oil to help keep our fellow Americans warm, employed, and energy independent.
Has the oil sheen in Prince William Sound disappeared yet?
 
Originally posted by Alaskawildkat:

Originally posted by Deeringfish:
Perhaps they are just facing facts. Even the great NU may not be able to get permission to build such a large facility so close to the lake.
We feel your pain. Here in Alaska we are not even being allowed to poke some little holes in the ground to extract oil to help keep our fellow Americans warm, employed, and energy independent.
Actually I just heard that a bill was past allowing some of those little holes to be poked.
 
clarification, I guess then you are also hinting that it has more to do with permits, correct? NU has previously built on the landfill and have already built the accompanying garage, right? Seems that maybe lack of funding could still be part of the problem and if so then they should consider downsizing the project and get the dam thing built.
 
Originally posted by willycat:
clarification, I guess then you are also hinting that it has more to do with permits, correct? NU has previously built on the landfill and have already built the accompanying garage, right? Seems that maybe lack of funding could still be part of the problem and if so then they should consider downsizing the project and get the dam thing built.
I assume (but do not know) that federal regulatory agencies are involved here. That being the case the political winds blow different directions depending on who is doing the appointing and retention of the regulators. I believe our prior building on the landfill was during a more progressive era.
 
I don't know what permits and approvals it takes to get something like that built right on the beach. I did not hear it directly so I could be way off base.
 
Problem is that we hear nothing from NU. Blind faith spewed to us, to prospects, to everyone - trust us (wink, wink), it's coming.

I really don't care if they tear down Ryan field and build there. If Evanston is the problem, find the closest willing municipality and build there - Skokie, Chicago, somebody wants the related revenue. If you are heart set and believe time will eventually allow the lakeside, then tell us and maybe re-do W-R during the decade that you wait to build on the lakefill.

But remaining silent, sitting on your thumbs and offering empty promises reeks of dirty politics and the scum associated therein.
 
Well, the new Kellogg building located south of the athletic fields didn't seem to be affected......
 
Originally posted by NJCat:
Well, the new Kellogg building located south of the athletic fields didn't seem to be affected......
Those prior buildings were not situated as close to an erosive shoreline like this facility will be. There must be some concern about shoreline stability, landfill stability, groundwater levels, erosive undercutting, etc.
 
Originally posted by willycat:

Also what about the Lacrosse and Soccer Fields?
What about them? They weigh nothing, are surrounded by barrier rip rap, and are no loss if a large storm event were to damage them.

Comparing a lacrosse field with a multi-story building the size of a Walmart is absurd.
 
I did not know the west side of Lake Michigan was erosive. I actually thought the north and east coastlines were the erosive ones. My environmental engineering knowledge is admittedly quite limited on this topic - but before our BugMan starts offering another NUesque excuse (wait, they don't even do that - we are left to simply guess...) - anyone know the answer?
 
Originally posted by xyzbobxyz:
I did not know the west side of Lake Michigan was erosive. I actually thought the north and east coastlines were the erosive ones. My environmental engineering knowledge is admittedly quite limited on this topic - but before our BugMan starts offering another NUesque excuse (wait, they don't even do that - we are left to simply guess...) - anyone know the answer?
Anyone know why there are high bluffs around Kenosha and other western shoreline areas? Can anybody explain why there are large boulders and rip rap along the eastern edge of the lakefill? Apparently the guy with "environmental engineering knowledge" isn't aware that the wind doesn't always come from the west along the west side of Lake Michigan.

By the way, I have no environmental engineering coursework. I just have eyes and some common sense.
 
Originally posted by Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan:
Well said Glades! Seems like it is too close to the water! What about those high rises downtown Chicago?
Are there any right along the edge of the water? How long did it take for their building permits to be approved?
 
Ever hear about a little building called Lake Point Tower? Ever hear about glacier erosion?
 
Originally posted by xyzbobxyz:
Ever hear about a little building called Lake Point Tower? Ever hear about glacier erosion?
First of all, Lake Point Tower is not nearly as close to Lake Michigan as the proposed athletic facility. It looks to be 120-150 feet from the Lake to the north while the proposed athletic facility is no more that 20-30 feet from the Lake. The harbor is of little consequence here. Also note that there is a breakwater that protects the entire harbor. The athletic facility will be in a bay that traps ice windblown from the north and northeast. Have you seen the ice pile up in winter along the north beach? Yikes!

More importantly, how long did it take for Lake Point Tower to get the go ahead for construction and what sort of engineering was necessary for permits to be granted? That's the issue here!

I don't know what glacier erosion has to do with anything here besides excavating the original basin and depositing the loose glacial till that covers the region making it vulnerable to erosion. Glacial erosion does not account for the current erosion along the west side of lake Michigan! Water level changes, ice, and wave action do! http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/lake-michigan/

Are you talking about ice creep from southerly or easterly winds? Imagine that problem near the athletic facility! Will we need to build a breakwater? I would guess permitting agencies might be considering it, as well as other factors, hence the permitting delays.

Thanks for making my point for me.


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This post was edited on 2/26 11:38 PM by Gladeskat
 
Originally posted by Gladeskat:

Originally posted by NJCat:
Well, the new Kellogg building located south of the athletic fields didn't seem to be affected......
Those prior buildings were not situated as close to an erosive shoreline like this facility will be. There must be some concern about shoreline stability, landfill stability, groundwater levels, erosive undercutting, etc.
How does Loyola do it?
 
Originally posted by epicbret:

Originally posted by Gladeskat:

Originally posted by NJCat:
Well, the new Kellogg building located south of the athletic fields didn't seem to be affected......
Those prior buildings were not situated as close to an erosive shoreline like this facility will be. There must be some concern about shoreline stability, landfill stability, groundwater levels, erosive undercutting, etc.
How does Loyola do it?
With careful planning and proper engineering.

The point is that any construction the size of the planned football facilities will be scrutinized carefully by state and local permitting agencies. It's not unusual for these processes to take some time. I also don't think the finished building will be like the drawings posted on the NU sports website. I would think they're going to have to build revetments to protect the building complex.
 
That is not LPT. LPT is the only building east of LSD. It is on Navy Pier. Try again.
 
Originally posted by Gladeskat:

Originally posted by epicbret:

Originally posted by Gladeskat:

Originally posted by NJCat:
Well, the new Kellogg building located south of the athletic fields didn't seem to be affected......
Those prior buildings were not situated as close to an erosive shoreline like this facility will be. There must be some concern about shoreline stability, landfill stability, groundwater levels, erosive undercutting, etc.
How does Loyola do it?
With careful planning and proper engineering.

The point is that any construction the size of the planned football facilities will be scrutinized carefully by state and local permitting agencies. It's not unusual for these processes to take some time. I also don't think the finished building will be like the drawings posted on the NU sports website. I would think they're going to have to build revetments to protect the building complex.
Great: NU press release - "To update our alumni and future students, we want to inform you that we continue to zealously pursue the NU Patrick Fitzgerald Athletic Facility on the Lakefront. Plans are currently funded but delayed while we continue to work with the Army Corp of Engineers to overcome a variety of permitting issues. We will continue to update you with our progress regularly. Thank you for your continued support."
 
Uh...yeah it is.

You can clearly see LSD to the left of the building (aka west). You can also easily see Navy Pier...

This picture is probably from the 90s.
 
It is probably also state and local permitting and Evanston has not really been to NU friendly over the years
 
What good does that do? The whole purpose was to get practice facilities and offices on campus. Putting in a different town does not exactly accomplish that.
 
Originally posted by xyzbobxyz:

Great: NU press release - "To update our alumni and future students, we want to inform you that we continue to zealously pursue the NU Patrick Fitzgerald Athletic Facility on the Lakefront. Plans are currently funded but delayed while we continue to work with the Army Corp of Engineers to overcome a variety of permitting issues. We will continue to update you with our progress regularly. Thank you for your continued support."
So why do you keep bitching about transparency when you already know the answer?
 
Know, or guess. Because I expect, no demand, transparency from an institution that has requested donations from me on multiple occasions for it. And before you say, I know, I can choose not to donate - you are correct. I can also bitch about the lack thereof whenever it suits my purpose.
 
I can buy that. Like I said before Glades jumped on me - not my area of expertise.

And, yup, I screw the pooch - that is LPT. Shouldn't post before coffee.

I am from Chicago - and (embarrassingly now) lived in that building for a few years.

And it is built on landfill.
 
Originally posted by xyzbobxyz:
Know, or guess. Because I expect, no demand, transparency from an institution that has requested donations from me on multiple occasions for it. And before you say, I know, I can choose not to donate - you are correct. I can also bitch about the lack thereof whenever it suits my purpose.
Demand all you want, but money talks (or, in this case, gets others to talk)... the only real way to get the level of transparency you seek is to make significant year-over-year donations to the program or even more significant one-time donations.
 
And that is fine.

And the status quo remains. I will continue to bring up the topic when relevant, continue to not donate to the mystery building and all will be happy. Except those that ask why I keep bringing up the topic ;)
 
Originally posted by xyzbobxyz:
And that is fine.

And the status quo remains. I will continue to bring up the topic when relevant, continue to not donate to the mystery building and all will be happy. Except those that ask why I keep bringing up the topic ;)
The point is that railing away at a lack of transparency does nothing but annoy people around you if you have no reasonable expectations of getting such transparency. As I posted in the since-deleted Turk thread, donations of $10,000+ are required at many top-notch football programs just for the right to purchase season tickets.
 
Originally posted by xyzbobxyz:


NU press release - "To update our alumni and future students, we want to inform you that we continue to zealously pursue the NU Patrick Fitzgerald Athletic Facility on the Lakefront. Plans are currently funded but delayed while we continue to work with the Army Corp of Engineers to overcome a variety of permitting issues. We will continue to update you with our progress regularly. Thank you for your continued support."
As some of you know, I am a construction contractor that works on government contracts. I work with USACE (The Corps of Engineers) a lot. If the university is saying that the hold-up is within USACE, then two years is a minimum. That is completely believable. If they can get the permits done for this type of facility at this location with USACE within two years, I will hire their engineers myself.
 
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