While no doubt Clayton will go down as one of the NU all-time greats at the position...

[Katatonic]

It’s important to remember (in comparing Thorson w/ the QBs who went before him) the level of talent surrounding the QB at the time, whether it be on offense or defense.

The Saints went 7-9 in 2014, 2015 and 2016 (also went 7-9 in 2012) despite Brees being closer to his physical peak; the turnaround back into a contender has a lot to do w/ the Saints having added talent around Brees (on both O and D).


Rankings PPG/YPG/O Efficiency – PPG against/YPG against/D Efficiency

2018 – 92/104/45.6 – 35/57/70.5
2017 – 51/50/48.2 – 19/31/70.2
2016 – 68/65/55.2 – 26/56/63.7
2015 – 116/115/31.8 – 14/14/80.1
2014 – 99/102/32.1 – 57/48/63.7
2013 – 84/65/45.1 – 66/84/61.5
2012 – 44/62/61.4 – 32/47/62.2
2011 – 51/34/71.4 – 65/79/35.3
2010 – 66/51/51.4 – 84/100/40.2
2009 – 74/41/52.1 – 51/45/53.6
2008 – 67/55/50.7 – 29/52/66.2

Pre-McCall/Pre-Hankwitz
2007 – 66/31/52.6 – 102/84/27.5

Not surprisingly, the best seasons (9-10 win seasons – bolded) usually had some balance on O and D w/ the big exception being 2015 (Clayton’s 1st yr) where the O was significantly below average but the D was simply stellar.

This past season also saw more of a discrepancy btwn O and D.

Also noteworthy is that the past 4 seasons have been the best 4 seasons in-a-row for the NU D; only the ’95 and ’96 can compare but limited to back-to-back seasons (the 2008 season was also pretty good; the season prior, 2007, was abysmal for the D).

Also have to keep in mind that the 2013 and 2014 teams were ravaged by injuries (including Trevor having back-to-back high ankle/leg injuries, and then his ACL), along w/ the O-line tipping plays.

2017 had the best balance on O and D during the Thorson years.

Under Fitz (and post-Colby), the D has been mostly avg. to above avg. to well above avg.

The O has been mostly avg. w/ a # of seasons being well below avg.

If the O can just get to above avg. w/ some consistency and the D continues doing its things, then the program should be able to take the next step.

Hopefully, an improved O-line and a more talented receiving corps will do the trick.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

It’s important to remember (in comparing Thorson w/ the QBs who went before him) the level of talent surrounding the QB at the time, whether it be on offense or defense.

The Saints went 7-9 in 2014, 2015 and 2016 (also went 7-9 in 2012) despite Brees being closer to his physical peak; the turnaround back into a contender has a lot to do w/ the Saints having added talent around Brees (on both O and D).


Rankings PPG/YPG/O Efficiency – PPG against/YPG against/D Efficiency

2018 – 92/104/45.6 – 35/57/70.5
2017 – 51/50/48.2 – 19/31/70.2
2016 – 68/65/55.2 – 26/56/63.7
2015 – 116/115/31.8 – 14/14/80.1
2014 – 99/102/32.1 – 57/48/63.7
2013 – 84/65/45.1 – 66/84/61.5
2012 – 44/62/61.4 – 32/47/62.2
2011 – 51/34/71.4 – 65/79/35.3
2010 – 66/51/51.4 – 84/100/40.2
2009 – 74/41/52.1 – 51/45/53.6
2008 – 67/55/50.7 – 29/52/66.2

Pre-McCall/Pre-Hankwitz
2007 – 66/31/52.6 – 102/84/27.5

Not surprisingly, the best seasons (9-10 win seasons – bolded) usually had some balance on O and D w/ the big exception being 2015 (Clayton’s 1st yr) where the O was significantly below average but the D was simply stellar.

This past season also saw more of a discrepancy btwn O and D.

Also noteworthy is that the past 4 seasons have been the best 4 seasons in-a-row for the NU D; only the ’95 and ’96 can compare but limited to back-to-back seasons (the 2008 season was also pretty good; the season prior, 2007, was abysmal for the D).

Also have to keep in mind that the 2013 and 2014 teams were ravaged by injuries (including Trevor having back-to-back high ankle/leg injuries, and then his ACL), along w/ the O-line tipping plays.

2017 had the best balance on O and D during the Thorson years.

Under Fitz (and post-Colby), the D has been mostly avg. to above avg. to well above avg.

The O has been mostly avg. w/ a # of seasons being well below avg.

If the O can just get to above avg. w/ some consistency and the D continues doing its things, then the program should be able to take the next step.

Hopefully, an improved O-line and a more talented receiving corps will do the trick.

There was a reason why JJ became JJTBC.
I think Thorson was ok but we simply need more production next year out of the qb position. Im not sure if the lack of efficiency, this year, was the result of the OL, the OC, the system, or Thorson, but we need to flush it and hope that Hunter can move things where they need to be.

 

[zeek55]

It’s important to remember (in comparing Thorson w/ the QBs who went before him) the level of talent surrounding the QB at the time, whether it be on offense or defense.

The Saints went 7-9 in 2014, 2015 and 2016 (also went 7-9 in 2012) despite Brees being closer to his physical peak; the turnaround back into a contender has a lot to do w/ the Saints having added talent around Brees (on both O and D).


Rankings PPG/YPG/O Efficiency – PPG against/YPG against/D Efficiency

2018 – 92/104/45.6 – 35/57/70.5
2017 – 51/50/48.2 – 19/31/70.2
2016 – 68/65/55.2 – 26/56/63.7
2015 – 116/115/31.8 – 14/14/80.1
2014 – 99/102/32.1 – 57/48/63.7
2013 – 84/65/45.1 – 66/84/61.5
2012 – 44/62/61.4 – 32/47/62.2
2011 – 51/34/71.4 – 65/79/35.3
2010 – 66/51/51.4 – 84/100/40.2
2009 – 74/41/52.1 – 51/45/53.6
2008 – 67/55/50.7 – 29/52/66.2

Pre-McCall/Pre-Hankwitz
2007 – 66/31/52.6 – 102/84/27.5

Not surprisingly, the best seasons (9-10 win seasons – bolded) usually had some balance on O and D w/ the big exception being 2015 (Clayton’s 1st yr) where the O was significantly below average but the D was simply stellar.

This past season also saw more of a discrepancy btwn O and D.

Also noteworthy is that the past 4 seasons have been the best 4 seasons in-a-row for the NU D; only the ’95 and ’96 can compare but limited to back-to-back seasons (the 2008 season was also pretty good; the season prior, 2007, was abysmal for the D).

Also have to keep in mind that the 2013 and 2014 teams were ravaged by injuries (including Trevor having back-to-back high ankle/leg injuries, and then his ACL), along w/ the O-line tipping plays.

2017 had the best balance on O and D during the Thorson years.

Under Fitz (and post-Colby), the D has been mostly avg. to above avg. to well above avg.

The O has been mostly avg. w/ a # of seasons being well below avg.

If the O can just get to above avg. w/ some consistency and the D continues doing its things, then the program should be able to take the next step.

Hopefully, an improved O-line and a more talented receiving corps will do the trick.

Lot's of good points, but really all you have to do is point at that Utah game.

How many Northwestern teams could win that game the last 15 years with the injuries to top players that we faced? Depth is phenomenal, especially on defense.

If we can improve our OL and WR depth (which depends more on development than recruiting at this point imo given we're getting pretty heralded guys right now), then there's nothing stopping us.

These next 2-3 years could be breakout years for the offense, and the sky is the limit if that happens.

 

[NorthNJCatsfan]

The sky may also need a DT or two.

 

[stpaulcat]

There was a reason why JJ became JJTBC.
I think Thorson was ok but we simply need more production next year out of the qb position. Im not sure if the lack of efficiency, this year, was the result of the OL, the OC, the system, or Thorson, but we need to flush it and hope that Hunter can move things where they need to be.

I think you are FOS. Clayton got it done when he needed it to get done. Period.

 

[Katatonic]

^ Would say that isn't entirely true.

Clayton was also involved in a # of bad losses - to which he contributed.

Akron (2 INTs, 1 fumble)
Western Mich (fumble)
Illinois St. (ADJ QBR - 11.7)

Also, having a good D and RB helps to keep the team in games - which gives more opportunities for the QB to get it done.

 

[Gladeskat]

Let's not forget the remarkable wins we had with Thorson. Lots of them.

 

[epicbret]

It's okay to say Thorson wasn't perfect

 

[zeek55]

^ Would say that isn't entirely true.

Clayton was also involved in a # of bad losses - to which he contributed.

Akron (2 INTs, 1 fumble)
Western Mich (fumble)
Illinois St. (ADJ QBR - 11.7)

Also, having a good D and RB helps to keep the team in games - which gives more opportunities for the QB to get it done.

Yeah but those 3 games mattered least of all the 53 games that CT started.

I mean if you put the 53 games that CT played in order of importance, those 3 would be near the very bottom. At this point, those games should be easy to get over.


When we needed CT to deliver in big moments, he always delivered. That's the legacy he leaves here. Several big games against each of Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, etc. as well as the bowl wins.


You could say he had arguably some of the most complete teams any NU QB has had, but he also took full advantage to deliver us an average of 9 wins across his years here.

Plus, this is the philosophy that Fitz wants to win with...; Fitz has always wanted to play power football the way Wisconsin plays. He wants a game managing QB with a powerful running game and strong defenses. Make the games ugly and win possession battles and then out-execute your opponent to take the contest.

He just didn't have the horses to pull that off early in his career; now he does.

Maybe that changes with Hunter taking over and added talent at the WR position, but that still remains to be seen.

 

[stpaulcat]

^ Would say that isn't entirely true.

Clayton was also involved in a # of bad losses - to which he contributed.

Akron (2 INTs, 1 fumble)
Western Mich (fumble)
Illinois St. (ADJ QBR - 11.7)

Also, having a good D and RB helps to keep the team in games - which gives more opportunities for the QB to get it done.

Nothing is entirely true.

 

[Deeringfish]

I think the team will miss the less measurable but important leadership he brought to the field and the locker room. All accounts point to his character helping people to rise to a higher standard. He also had a steadiness that I think accounted for some of the confidence that the team had to come back in games that less disciplined teams would have had melt downs about.

 

[pawildcat]

Nothing is entirely true.

So there is no such thing as a fact? That fits in well with what we're seeing the last couple of years.

 

[stpaulcat]

So there is no such thing as a fact? That fits in well with what we're seeing the last couple of years.

I was thinking along the lines of precession. If the universe is not fixed, what is?

 

[NJCat]

I was thinking along the lines of precession. If the universe is not fixed, what is?

The Universe is expanding and not fixed. Life is full of uncertainty!

 

[StreamCat]

Nothing is entirely true.

A self-refuting sentence if I’ve ever read one.

 

[Turk]

Let's not forget the remarkable wins we had with Thorson. Lots of them.

I prefer forgetting and looking forward, with hope, that we can have a lot more efficiency out of the QB position next year. The INT/TD ratio and yards per attempt were too compromised in this offense. Not saying that was Thorson's fault. Fitz claims this hunter is the real deal, so there is much to be excited about and I'm sure Marty and Smith have something to say about this. But for that ypa to be competitive, we need a QB who can buy time and not be a statue back there Hopefully, Good Will Hunter can bring back memories of Kustoc, Persa, and Baz.

 

[stpaulcat]

A self-refuting sentence if I’ve ever read one.

Which only makes my sentence slightly less true.

 

[stpaulcat]

I prefer forgetting and looking forward, with hope, that we can have a lot more efficiency out of the QB position next year. The INT/TD ratio and yards per attempt were too compromised in this offense. Not saying that was Thorson's fault. Fitz claims this hunter is the real deal, so there is much to be excited about and I'm sure Marty and Smith have something to say about this. But for that ypa to be competitive, we need a QB who can buy time and not be a statue back there Hopefully, Good Will Hunter can bring back memories of Kustoc, Persa, and Baz.

You apparently haven't yet forgotten what Mr. Wickerbarf thinks about this.

 

[hdhntr1]

Yeah but those 3 games mattered least of all the 53 games that CT started.

I mean if you put the 53 games that CT played in order of importance, those 3 would be near the very bottom. At this point, those games should be easy to get over.


When we needed CT to deliver in big moments, he always delivered. That's the legacy he leaves here. Several big games against each of Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, etc. as well as the bowl wins.


You could say he had arguably some of the most complete teams any NU QB has had, but he also took full advantage to deliver us an average of 9 wins across his years here.

Plus, this is the philosophy that Fitz wants to win with...; Fitz has always wanted to play power football the way Wisconsin plays. He wants a game managing QB with a powerful running game and strong defenses. Make the games ugly and win possession battles and then out-execute your opponent to take the contest.

He just didn't have the horses to pull that off early in his career; now he does.

Maybe that changes with Hunter taking over and added talent at the WR position, but that still remains to be seen.

Those three games have a lot to do with the lack of respect that NU has experienced. If we had beaten Akron, we would likely be ranked 10-15. Not having that loss likely would help in recruiting as well. Just saying that those losses have had an effect.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Those three games have a lot to do with the lack of respect that NU has experienced. If we had beaten Akron, we would likely be ranked 10-15. Not having that loss likely would help in recruiting as well. Just saying that those losses have had an effect.

Absolutely true. But at the end of the season, you are what your record is. A good team capable of beating a lot of good teams, and who can also lose with some key injuries and/or letdowns. And one finishing with the arrow pointing firmly up.

 

[zeek55]

Those three games have a lot to do with the lack of respect that NU has experienced. If we had beaten Akron, we would likely be ranked 10-15. Not having that loss likely would help in recruiting as well. Just saying that those losses have had an effect.

Yeah I understand that, especially since I'm one of those who firmly agrees in the importance of public rankings (CFP/AP/Coaches). Public perception is what's important to media narratives as well as recruits and fans. It's why we're much more likely to get a preseason ranking for 2019 than 2018.


To me though, it is pretty simple to accept the Akron loss in the context of the whole season.

Were voters skeptical of us in the middle of the season due to that loss? Of course. That's why we had to win 8 Big Ten games and the bowl game against another Power 5 division champ just to get to the final set of rankings. Switch any of those 9 wins to a loss and we finish unranked. But we got those 9 wins and earned a solid ranked finish to go along with the bowl trophy and division trophy. That's a great season any way you examine it.


Recruits should see that in the context of an ascending program with a giant new facility on the lake. I expect our next couple of classes to be Fitz's best ever. And if we can breakthrough further? The sky is the limit.


I just don't like the "what if" game that much because every team besides the national champion can play that game.

Ultimately, we are what the results of the 14 games says we are. A 9 win team with a ton of promise for the next couple of years.

 

[Gladeskat]

I prefer forgetting and looking forward, with hope, that we can have a lot more efficiency out of the QB position next year. The INT/TD ratio and yards per attempt were too compromised in this offense. Not saying that was Thorson's fault. Fitz claims this hunter is the real deal, so there is much to be excited about and I'm sure Marty and Smith have something to say about this. But for that ypa to be competitive, we need a QB who can buy time and not be a statue back there Hopefully, Good Will Hunter can bring back memories of Kustoc, Persa, and Baz.

Let's see if he averages 9 wins a year as Clayton did, or wins 10 games in his first year at NU, or leads us to a West championship and three bowl wins.

 

[pawildcat]

I was thinking along the lines of precession. If the universe is not fixed, what is?

Pretty sure my name on this website is pawildcat. The B-52 is an eight-engined American bomber made by Boeing. There are a lot of things one can say that are entirely true.

 

[StreamCat]

There are a lot of things one can say that are entirely true.

Like StreamCat is a heck of a guy.

 

[stpaulcat]

Pretty sure my name on this website is pawildcat. The B-52 is an eight-engined American bomber made by Boeing. There are a lot of things one can say that are entirely true.

For a short time. Everything changes.

 

[phatcat]

Yeah but those 3 games mattered least of all the 53 games that CT started.

I mean if you put the 53 games that CT played in order of importance, those 3 would be near the very bottom. At this point, those games should be easy to get over.


When we needed CT to deliver in big moments, he always delivered. That's the legacy he leaves here. Several big games against each of Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, etc. as well as the bowl wins.


You could say he had arguably some of the most complete teams any NU QB has had, but he also took full advantage to deliver us an average of 9 wins across his years here.

Plus, this is the philosophy that Fitz wants to win with...; Fitz has always wanted to play power football the way Wisconsin plays. He wants a game managing QB with a powerful running game and strong defenses. Make the games ugly and win possession battles and then out-execute your opponent to take the contest.

He just didn't have the horses to pull that off early in his career; now he does.

Maybe that changes with Hunter taking over and added talent at the WR position, but that still remains to be seen.

WMU saddled us with Mr Gopher Paddleboat. 11-2 Fleck is an also ran

 

[phatcat]

39 wins. Just win, baby

Dude was a warrior. Even w Hujo's talent, I HOPE he absorbed everything that he could from Thor.

A remarkable young man. I will miss him. Yes, I complained about him and was like "where is Alviti" on a few occasions, but, wow, what a record

 

[stpaulcat]

It's okay to say Thorson wasn't perfect

Not sure that's the point. Is it also okay to diminish what he HAS done?

 

[Catreporter]

I loved the way Thorson would hang tough in the pocket AND WAIT UNTIL THE LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT WITH A DEFENDER bearing down on him to complete key crossing routes. Examples:Game winner to Nagle on 3rd and 7 in triple ovt vs MSU, this year on fourth down and 5 vs Rutgers, hitting Nagle again for the vital first down that led to the winning score and then vs. Illinois this year that gave usultimate winning margin. The guy made a bundle of great plays in tight situations. Was he perfect? No, but he was a WINNER.

 

[Katatonic]

Yeah but those 3 games mattered least of all the 53 games that CT started.

I mean if you put the 53 games that CT played in order of importance, those 3 would be near the very bottom. At this point, those games should be easy to get over.

Keep losing those types of games and the program continues to be seen a certain way.

Those three games have a lot to do with the lack of respect that NU has experienced. If we had beaten Akron, we would likely be ranked 10-15. Not having that loss likely would help in recruiting as well. Just saying that those losses have had an effect.

This.

And lose those types of games and will never make the play-offs.

When we needed CT to deliver in big moments, he always delivered. That's the legacy he leaves here. Several big games against each of Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, etc. as well as the bowl wins.

Always? Really?

2015
UM - led the 'Cats to ZERO points (got crushed 38-0; passed for 106 yds w/ 1 INT)
Similar to even worse performance against Io_a and the Tenn.
Beat Io_a and the 'Cats win the West.
But Clayton here is a RS frosh, so give him a pass.

2017
Dook - 41-17 thumping w/ 2 INTs
Can say the game doesn't really matter as it is an OOC game, but all games matter somewhat and hate losing to Dook.
Guess one can say the thumping at the hands of PSU doesn't really matter when it comes to winning the West, but losing to UW certainly did.
The 'Cats were primed to win the West in 2017, esp. as the 'Cats had the advantage in QB (Thorson - Hornibrook) and at RB.

You could say he had arguably some of the most complete teams any NU QB has had, but he also took full advantage to deliver us an average of 9 wins across his years here.

Who's to say that Persa, Trevor, Kafka or CJ wouldn't have been able to do the same (or better) w/ the same level of talent around them?

W/ a RS frosh Trevor or CJ in 2015, think the 'Cats win the W.

W/ a SR (and healthy) Persa this season, think the 'Cats beat dOSU (they certainly beat Michigan and don't lose to Akron).

I think the team will miss the less measurable but important leadership he brought to the field and the locker room. All accounts point to his character helping people to rise to a higher standard. He also had a steadiness that I think accounted for some of the confidence that the team had to come back in games that less disciplined teams would have had melt downs about.

Who's to say that past QB's (like the aforementioned) or HJ don't have those attributes?

 

[Katatonic]

Let's see if he averages 9 wins a year as Clayton did, or wins 10 games in his first year at NU, or leads us to a West championship and three bowl wins.

Well, if HJ gets a comparable D (and run game) over that time-span; don't see why the team wouldn't.

And about that 10 win season in 2015...

Duke - 9 for 23 w/ 2 INTs (D got a pick; 201 yds rushing for the 'Cats)

PSU - Thorson knocked out of game early; Oliver comes in and passes for 1 and runs for another TD (D also got a pick; 227 yds rushing)

PU - 9 for 19 for 82 yds w/ 1 INT (D got a pick; 250 yds rushing)

UW - 9 for 20 for 60 yds (D got 2 picks; 149 yds rushing - D held UW's run game to -26 yds)

Only 3 times during the 2015 season did Thorson pass for more than 150 yds w/ 2 of them being against Eastern IL and against Ball St.

 

[SciCat]

I was thinking along the lines of precession. If the universe is not fixed, what is?

Quantum entanglement clearly states that the universe in not fixed.

 

[SciCat]

Pretty sure my name on this website is pawildcat. The B-52 is an eight-engined American bomber made by Boeing. There are a lot of things one can say that are entirely true.

Things are entirely true, until they’re not. Fitzphile was NJCat, until he wasn’t. Northwestern was the worst football program in the history of the universe, until it wasn’t. What happens if you adopt another board name, in addition to pawildcat? Then what will your name be?

 

[NJCat]

What happens if you adopt another board name, in addition to pawildcat? Then what will your name be?

WickerTurkPuke?

 

[SciCat]

WickerTurkPuke?

With all due respect to Turk, I don’t see Turk and Wicker being the same poster. The writing styles and personalities are too different. Turk may be a troll, but he’s a decent guy. Wicker is much more like Puke, Chuckster, and Shivas.

 

[epicbret]

Not sure that's the point. Is it also okay to diminish what he HAS done?

Not sure that is what I said.

Ya'll can just carry on.

 

[pawildcat]

Things are entirely true, until they’re not. Fitzphile was NJCat, until he wasn’t. Northwestern was the worst football program in the history of the universe, until it wasn’t. What happens if you adopt another board name, in addition to pawildcat? Then what will your name be?

This is a great example of why philosophy is an easy "A" at most schools. Some professors are actually susceptible to this b.s. If I adopt another board name, it will be what it is when I change it. That is entirely true. That Northwestern was the worst program at one time was objectively, entirely true. That this year it wasn't the worst program is entirely true, supported by objective evidence. The truth about something can change, but the truth is still the truth. The physical bodies of every poster on this board will die some day. Not comforting, but entirely true.

 

[pawildcat]

Let's see if he averages 9 wins a year as Clayton did, or wins 10 games in his first year at NU, or leads us to a West championship and three bowl wins.

I'm somewhat amazed that people on this board have been carping about our o-line for several years and all of a sudden things seem to be Clayton's fault. I hope we get more QBs who can bumble their way into an average of 9 wins per season.

 

[zeek55]

Keep losing those types of games and the program continues to be seen a certain way.

2015
UM - led the 'Cats to ZERO points (got crushed 38-0; passed for 106 yds w/ 1 INT)
Similar to even worse performance against Io_a and the Tenn.
Beat Io_a and the 'Cats win the West.
But Clayton here is a RS frosh, so give him a pass.

2017
Dook - 41-17 thumping w/ 2 INTs
Can say the game doesn't really matter as it is an OOC game, but all games matter somewhat and hate losing to Dook.
Guess one can say the thumping at the hands of PSU doesn't really matter when it comes to winning the West, but losing to UW certainly did.
The 'Cats were primed to win the West in 2017, esp. as the 'Cats had the advantage in QB (Thorson - Hornibrook) and at RB.

What certain way? Outside of our fanbase, all the buzz about Northwestern has been positive the past 4 years. Only on these forums do those bad losses get mentioned. Nobody outside cares about those losses. Just like nobody cares about Miami or Wake Forest in the mid-90s.

Everywhere else, people focus on wins and what you achieve with those wins. The division title and those 3 bowl wins in a row are what people care about as well as the ranked finish and sheer number of wins.


As far as losses go, yeah CT has his share just like every other QB we've ever had. But you're talking about losses in 10 win seasons. I just don't care about those losses when we win most of the close games that matter in those years. A bunch of close wins outweigh those losses.

Also, you're putting way too much on CT personally; our offenses have been mediocre in large part due to OL issues and not having enough dynamic WRs.

Look at that Akron tape, (yes I know we had OL injuries), the pocket was collapsing instantly on many plays in the 2nd half. That's not on him.


If we don't have improved OL and WR play, then it doesn't matter how much talent Hunter Johnson has. Trevor Lawrence looks amazing in part because of his own talent, but also because his offense is completely loaded in terms of OL and WRs. In the championship game, some of those catches were complete circus catches by his WRs. Most of their OL and WRs will be in the NFL; I'm not saying we have to get there, but we need improved play.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Keep losing those types of games and the program continues to be seen a certain way.



This.

And lose those types of games and will never make the play-offs.




Always? Really?

2015
UM - led the 'Cats to ZERO points (got crushed 38-0; passed for 106 yds w/ 1 INT)
Similar to even worse performance against Io_a and the Tenn.
Beat Io_a and the 'Cats win the West.
But Clayton here is a RS frosh, so give him a pass.

2017
Dook - 41-17 thumping w/ 2 INTs
Can say the game doesn't really matter as it is an OOC game, but all games matter somewhat and hate losing to Dook.
Guess one can say the thumping at the hands of PSU doesn't really matter when it comes to winning the West, but losing to UW certainly did.
The 'Cats were primed to win the West in 2017, esp. as the 'Cats had the advantage in QB (Thorson - Hornibrook) and at RB.



Who's to say that Persa, Trevor, Kafka or CJ wouldn't have been able to do the same (or better) w/ the same level of talent around them?

W/ a RS frosh Trevor or CJ in 2015, think the 'Cats win the W.

W/ a SR (and healthy) Persa this season, think the 'Cats beat dOSU (they certainly beat Michigan and don't lose to Akron).





Who's to say that past QB's (like the aforementioned) or HJ don't have those attributes?

You obviously put a lot of work into this response, but it doesn’t tell the whole story.

If I wanted to, I could put together a similar list if “failures” you highlight for all the QB’s you seem to think were as good or better. Geez, Trevor got routinely destroyed in these forums. He is in the NFL and now some act like he never had an off game at NU.

If someone told any of us at the time of CT’s recruitment that we would be getting the all time NU leader in career passing yards, be NU’s all time leader in passing TD’s, Lead the Big in career starts by a QB, be fourth all time in career passing yards in the Big, second all time in the Big in pass completions. Win 3 bowl games and the West Division title for the only time ever, all while representing the school in an honorable way, I think most of us are giddy.

I get amazed when people claim most of the previous QB’s could have done the same. Then why didn’t they? Our D was good most of the time for CT, but no way anyone will convince me our OL was better for CT. Alviti was higher rated that any other QB that the other QB’s had to deal with. Baz is the only one that had anywhere near the same career. Everyone love Persa, but he wasn’t good enough to be the starter here for all 4 years and he got hurt. Those are facts. Yes, he had the single best season i’ve Ever seen from a NU QB, but not the best career.

I just don’t understand why people can’t be thankful for all of what CT accomplished instead of repeatedly dragging every shortcoming and failure he had through the proverbial mud. I get it, some people like others better, but the need to keep bringing up Tennessee, ISU, Akron, interceptions, spread options et al is unnecessary.