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Who was the highest rated LB that Fitz ever recruited to NU?

Turk

Turk

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Looks like we have a good shot at Borland and another couple LB's that would be, by far, the highest rated LB's that Fitz ever got to verbal. Fitz is a great recruiter, and has done exceptionally well with DB's, athletes, QB's, etc as far as high ratings, but it's somewhat odd that his LB"s haven't been so highly rated. To be sure, ratings aren't the end all, but as of now, I think Proby and/or Chi Chi were the highest rated LB's that Fitz ever recruited. He certainly seems in line to outdo that this year.
 
I thought Custis was a lineman. What ever happened to him anyway?
 
IIRC, Custis was a DE who was a big get, but never really developed into a starter. He apparently was passionate about music, but less so about football. Still he fulfilled his commitment and graduated a few years back.

In terms of ratings, our best LB recruits lately have been Jeske, Goodlow, and Proby. Meanwhile, prince Kwateng was a low 2 star Glades Special, as was Tyler Scott.
 
Odenigbo was classified as the fourth best OLB and the 65th best overall recruit in the 2012 class. Yes, he was recruited by Northwestern as a DE, but I still think it counts.
 
Being that Fitz himself was a two time defensive player of the year who only received one other D1 offer, Georgia Tech, I would bet Fitz doesn't put much stock into recruiting rankings for linebackers in particular.
 
He probably should. We haven't had an All Big-Ten linebacker in quite a while and most of our linebackers need some time to bulk up. I am excited about the incoming linebackers, though. They have the size to contribute more quickly.
 
I agree with that. But the question remains, who is his highest ranked LB recruit, even though he doesn't put stock in ratings?

If we limit the question to only using the rivals.com reference site, then the answer is Proby, Chi Chi, and Studlien.

I'm sure Fitz isn't recruiting Borland due to his 4 star rating, nonetheless, his star rating is significant around here, even though it isn't a guarantee that he will be good.
 
It prolly isn't altogether true that Fitz puts no stock in star ratings. Star ratings are indicators of someone who is physically already ready to play, mixed with verifying High School production. The fact that he hasn't recruited 4 star LB's doesn't necessarily mean he puts no stock in ratings. I'm sure all coaches search all the databases and at some point filter players that are unknown from ratings and then narrow the search from there. Pedigree is always searched, I would think. In fact, I would think it is obligatory.
 
Originally posted by Turk:
It prolly isn't altogether true that Fitz puts no stock in star ratings. Star ratings are indicators of someone who is physically already ready to play, mixed with verifying High School production. The fact that he hasn't recruited 4 star LB's doesn't necessarily mean he puts no stock in ratings. I'm sure all coaches search all the databases and at some point filter players that are unknown from ratings and then narrow the search from there. Pedigree is always searched, I would think. In fact, I would think it is obligatory.
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1) It is 100% true that the coaching staff puts zero stock in star ratings.

2) No.
 
Maybe that's why Fitz hasn't recruited some LB"s that are 'ready built' already. What a shame that he refuses to access all the portals and research databases and consider 4 stars who are unknown to him. Numerous times on this site, fans use the databases, and find top shelf recruits who are filtered by star ratings, then by other measures that puts them in the academic framework that NU would consider, and the fans are puzzled that such recruits are gobbled up by other academic institutions and NU hasn't even offered or made attempts to contact. Maybe the reason for that is because of what you said.

I'll take what you said as true and that Fitz instructs his staff not to utilize these databases.
 
Originally posted by Turk:
Maybe that's why Fitz hasn't recruited some LB"s that are 'ready built' already. What a shame that he refuses to access all the portals and research databases and consider 4 stars who are unknown to him. Numerous times on this site, fans use the databases, and find top shelf recruits who are filtered by star ratings, then by other measures that puts them in the academic framework that NU would consider, and the fans are puzzled that such recruits are gobbled up by other academic institutions and NU hasn't even offered or made attempts to contact. Maybe the reason for that is because of what you said.

I'll take what you said as true and that Fitz instructs his staff not to utilize these databases.
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You really think Rivals/Scout/ESPN are the only databases available to coaches?
 
Originally posted by clarificationcat:
He probably should. We haven't had an All Big-Ten linebacker in quite a while and most of our linebackers need some time to bulk up. I am excited about the incoming linebackers, though. They have the size to contribute more quickly.
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I think we've had some really high level play out of our linebackers the last couple years. Chi Chi, Proby and Nwabusi were very good players arguably at an All B1G level had the team won more games. Walker was more than promising last year as a Freshman and I though Jimmy Hall played at a pretty high level last year as well.

Chi-Chi, Proby and Nwabusi earned All B1G mention during their careers. We perhaps lacked an excellent linebacker, but we had 2-3 very good linebackers playing at a time. For all our troubles in 2013-2014, the linebacker position certainly wasn't one of them. (They did an admirable and tough duty job behind a suspect and injury-riddled interior DL.)
 
Proby, imo, was the best middle in the entire BIG. What a beast he turned into. Unfortunately, politics abound and we didn't win a division. He was Fitz' highest rivals rated LB.

OTOH, there is always Timmy McTackler, who shattered records but received no desirable star rating or BIG recognition.
 
I didn't say that. Look, maybe our coaches are too snobby because they "Know it all". Sorry I brought this up. Have a good day sir.
 
Answer: Fitz himself as a recruit

There is statistical significant correlation between published rankings from Rivals et. al and a program's on-field winning percentage. It is about the closest thing to Sabermetrics in college football. We can debate about scouting eccentricities in judgment and bias, "program fits," and trajectory projections. But the star power is most oftentimes backed up by a telephone book size offer list, suggesting that a whole bunch of coaches/scouts agree with the assessments of these publications. Is it an exact science? No. But to browbeat the suggestion that the coaches deliberately ignore these publications is above board and unreasonable.

I think Fitz Inc. prides themselves on identifying and developing diamonds in the rough, as Fitz offers a personal anecdote of being overlooked as a two-star recruit - despite, if I recall correctly, his having a Notre Dame offer - and then going on to accomplishing a college football hall of fame career at Northwestern - perhaps the best collegiate middle linebacker ever to play.
 
I don't disagree with that but I feel like we haven't had a truly great linebacker in a long time. I don't believe we have put anyone in the NFL at the position since Nick Roach. And while I feel like Fitz has dramatically improved our depth and talent at db, I feel like we have regressed a little at linebacker from the Barnett and Walker days, which surprises me. I don't view any of the linebackers that have been recruited by Fitz to date in the same caliber as Gardner, Napo, Bentley, Roach, McGarigle or, of course, Fitz. And while several of those guys were not highly recruited, it would be great to land a 4-star linebacker every once in a while who potentially could contribute immediately.

Like I said, though, I am excited to see the new recruits (who have size, impressive tape and higher recruiting rankings) and I agree that Walker showed a lot of promise for a redshirt freshman.
 
Originally posted by Turk:
Proby, imo, was the best middle in the entire BIG. What a beast he turned into. Unfortunately, politics abound and we didn't win a division. He was Fitz' highest rivals rated LB.

OTOH, there is always Timmy McTackler, who shattered records but received no desirable star rating or BIG recognition.
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McGarige received consensus 2nd team all-B1G in 2005 and first team all-B1G by the media in 2004, as well as HM all-B1G in 2003. He received solid recognition for his play, IMO.
 
I'd put Chi Chi and Proby up there with several of the guys you named. I liked Arrington and Kwateng their senior years, too. We haven't had someone like Fitz or Gardner, though. Napo was more of an outstanding athlete than a gifted, instinctive LB. MR95 is right...win more games and we'll get more players recognized.
 
Re: Answer: Fitz himself as a recruit


Originally posted by Cat In The Cradle:
There is statistical significant correlation between published rankings from Rivals et. al and a program's on-field winning percentage. It is about the closest thing to Sabermetrics in college football. We can debate about scouting eccentricities in judgment and bias, "program fits," and trajectory projections. But the star power is most oftentimes backed up by a telephone book size offer list, suggesting that a whole bunch of coaches/scouts agree with the assessments of these publications. Is it an exact science? No. But to browbeat the suggestion that the coaches deliberately ignore these publications is above board and unreasonable.

I think Fitz Inc. prides themselves on identifying and developing diamonds in the rough, as Fitz offers a personal anecdote of being overlooked as a two-star recruit - despite, if I recall correctly, his having a Notre Dame offer - and then going on to accomplishing a college football hall of fame career at Northwestern - perhaps the best collegiate middle linebacker ever to play.
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To adamantly state that the coaches do not use popular recruiting rags based upon extensive experience with the NU recruiting experience is not unreasonable at all. It's based upon actual observation.

To me, the only use I can see for them is finding potential players to add to a list of prospects. I wouldn't put much stock in the ratings over actual game film and in person observation. Certainly a correlation will exist between stars, offers,and eventual quality if a player is really outstanding or really sucks.
 
Originally posted by Turk:
I didn't say that. Look, maybe our coaches are too snobby because they "Know it all". Sorry I brought this up. Have a good day sir.
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Maybe, just maybe, our coaches do know a little bit more than the average fan who sits on his can in front of a computer a couple hours a day. If you actually gave it some thought, perhaps you would realize that the coaches have their own idea what kind of player they want. If by coincidence that recruit happens to be rated as a 4-star by god-know-who, so much the better.

Fitz and his staff have a pretty amazing record of recognizing really good players early. No one heard of Nathan Fox when he committed to the Cats, but by the end of his senior season he had teams like Oregon chasing after him.
 
If i remember correctly, arrington was having a monster junior season until he broke his arm. Seems the defense never really regained the on the field swagger it seemed to play with at the beginning of that season. I think his senior year was strong, but a dissapointment compared to how well he had played before getting hurt.

At any rate, thankful he was able to come back and solidify the LB corp that year.
 
All the guys you mentioned were good to very good linebackers. It just surprises me that we haven't been able to develop a star at that position, or even recruit someone that can make an immediate impact as a true freshmen like Jackson, Harris, Vitale or Lowry. Walker looks like he could be a star. I don't know how he grades out in pass coverage but he looks like he can be dominant against the run, and you definitely notice when he tackles someone.

Maybe I am too focused on Fitzgerald's college career. I think he said recently that most high school players have no idea what position he played.
 
Let's not forget SILVA....Silva was all Big Ten 2 years in a row....He would have gone on to play on Sundays with Bentley and Napo had it not been for a severe knee injury....I think when you add up the stats and tackles, Silva was right up there in stats and efficiency....If you were to ask me, Bentley, Napo and Silva made up one of the strongest LB trios in many years for NU....They were playing when NU last had a B10 Championship....Has to be worth some accolades....
 
Originally posted by clarificationcat:

Maybe I am too focused on Fitzgerald's college career.
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With all due respect to Fitz and Barry Gardner who were really really good, but they were considered stars and won all sorts of awards largely because they played on dominant defenses and championship teams. Proby, McGarrigle, Chi Chi, Nwabusi, Kevin Bently and others would have become iconic stars had they played on the 95-96 defenses and a team with a two-year 15-1 (B1G) record.

It may be a cliche, but it's true. It's hard to be considered a great (or star) player if you don't play on a great unit and a great team. NFL scouts may notice you if you play on a lousy unit and lousy team, but the (national) media and most fans won't.
 
There was some serious talent on that 2000 defense. The LBs you mention, plus DE Dwayne Missouri and CB Harold Blackmon, who both played in the NFL. Yet the Cats couldn't stop anyone. They allowed 427.1 yards and 33.3 points per game. You'd think some of that can be attributed to the Wildcats' no-huddle offense, but NU's TOP was 29:05, which isn't that bad. Walker established the offensive identity that still defines NU but defense was a riddle he was never able to solve.
 
I meant too focused on him being a former linebacker and thinking that he should be able to make NU linebacker U. Walker was good at identifying and developing running backs and I thought the same might be true for Fitzgerald and linebackers. I was just wrong in trying to make that connection.

But Gardner had his best years in 1997 and 1998 when NU was mediocre at best. He was first team All Big-Ten on a terrible team. He was a second round draft pick and managed to hang in the NFL for a few years. Chi Chi was passed over this year by the coaches and the writers for guys from Penn State, Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin. In the past 10 years, how many first or second team All Big-Ten linebackers have we had on the roster? I guaranty you there have been plenty of linebackers from losing or mediocre teams.

And in the 10 years after Fitzgerald graduated, we sent several linebackers to the NFL in addition to Gardner. Bentley had a great professional career. Napo had some success in the NFL. Roach has had a nice NFL career. Even McGarigle played a couple of seasons. This is Fitzgerald's 10 season and unless Chi Chi makes it, he has not sent a single linebacker to the NFL, unless I am forgetting someone.

I know our linebacker play has generally been pretty good, but it still surprises me.
 
Originally posted by Lou V:

There was some serious talent on that 2000 defense. The LBs you mention, plus DE Dwayne Missouri and CB Harold Blackmon, who both played in the NFL. Yet the Cats couldn't stop anyone. They allowed 427.1 yards and 33.3 points per game. You'd think some of that can be attributed to the Wildcats' no-huddle offense, but NU's TOP was 29:05, which isn't that bad. Walker established the offensive identity that still defines NU but defense was a riddle he was never able to solve.
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Walker knew the answer to the riddle but he didn't have the players (DT's) to solve the problem on the field.
 
You're both right. Winning certainly helps with getting awards, but Gardner and Fitz were special and would have received awards if they were on mediocre teams (Gardner, in fact, did)
 
Yeah, but then he had Castillo and Cofield and our defense still sucked. Maybe they were injured in 2004 (I don't remember) but that team had a hell of a lot of talent on defense to be as mediocre as it was. Coaches say that you are only as strong as your weakest link in football and maybe more than anything that was Walker's problem. Under Fitz, our strongest links are not as strong but Walker's weakest links were definitely weaker. And he had Colby as his defensive coordinator.
 
Originally posted by clarificationcat:
Yeah, but then he had Castillo and Cofield and our defense still sucked. Maybe they were injured in 2004 (I don't remember) but that team had a hell of a lot of talent on defense to be as mediocre as it was. Coaches say that you are only as strong as your weakest link in football and maybe more than anything that was Walker's problem. Under Fitz, our strongest links are not as strong but Walker's weakest links were definitely weaker. And he had Colby as his defensive coordinator.
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While Castillo and Cofield were very good DT's, Clark, IMO, was a sieve, taking the easy route and creating seems while trying to make a play. You can get away with that only if you're as quick as Mitch King of Iowa. Also, other positions became weak points. Colby was not a particularly good defensive coach either.

That's what I think as well. Offenses look for a weakness, a consistently blockable player or tandem, and exploit it. The defense's efforts to compensate for that weakness leave them vulnerable to other plays. Wash, rinse, repeat.



This post was edited on 3/18 3:13 PM by Gladeskat
 
Originally posted by clarificationcat:
Yeah, but then he had Castillo and Cofield and our defense still sucked. Maybe they were injured in 2004 (I don't remember) but that team had a hell of a lot of talent on defense to be as mediocre as it was. Coaches say that you are only as strong as your weakest link in football and maybe more than anything that was Walker's problem. Under Fitz, our strongest links are not as strong but Walker's weakest links were definitely weaker. And he had Colby as his defensive coordinator.
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On Colby defenses, players were either told to be in the wrong place or guessing where they should be because they weren't told. At no time in the Colby era did I see a coherent framework or strategy for stopping an opponent. Even an ill advised framework and strategy would have been superior to no strategy. The fundamental techniques I saw out of front seven players were the exact opposite of everything I understood about fundamental defensive football. In short, not good.

The Colby defenses were significantly less than the sum of their parts. (They played hard though.)

When Hank's defenses have struggled from time to time (in 2010 & 2011), I could at least see where players were supposed to fit and what the broad strategy was trying to accomplish.
 
You sound a little bit like the principal in Billy Madison. Every fan is now dumber for having watched Colby's defenses. May God have mercy on his soul.
 
Originally posted by Gladeskat:


Originally posted by Turk:
Proby, imo, was the best middle in the entire BIG. What a beast he turned into. Unfortunately, politics abound and we didn't win a division. He was Fitz' highest rivals rated LB.

OTOH, there is always Timmy McTackler, who shattered records but received no desirable star rating or BIG recognition.
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McGarige received consensus 2nd team all-B1G in 2005 and first team all-B1G by the media in 2004, as well as HM all-B1G in 2003. He received solid recognition for his play, IMO.
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McG had no star-rating b/c he broke his foot junior year and didn't play a down. Was all-conference as a soph.
 
Originally posted by Turk:
Looks like we have a good shot at Borland and another couple LB's that would be, by far, the highest rated LB's that Fitz ever got to verbal. Fitz is a great recruiter, and has done exceptionally well with DB's, athletes, QB's, etc as far as high ratings, but it's somewhat odd that his LB"s haven't been so highly rated. To be sure, ratings aren't the end all, but as of now, I think Proby and/or Chi Chi were the highest rated LB's that Fitz ever recruited. He certainly seems in line to outdo that this year.
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Fitz and crew have only really done better w/ DBs fairly recently, as w/ RBs (as pertaining to star ratings).

For a while, there was a stretch where they struggled to get higher rated recruits at those positions (DB was somewhat understandable, long being a position where the 'Cats have struggled in recruiting, but RB?).

Haven't really gotten the higher rated recruits at LB, but we really haven't seen a major drop off in production at LB as we have at other positions (tho, depth has kinda been an issue).
 
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