Why Barry Alvarez retired, and Why it matters to us

[CatManTrue]

I think we all respect Barry Alvarez. He's basically Gary Barnett, Fitz, and Mark Murphy all rolled into one person. Simply put, he led the transformation of Wisconsin football from a fellow 1980s weakling to the power that it is today.

He retired this year, and I was curious as to why. So I asked a buddy who's in the know in Madison - I expected the answer to be "his age" (he's in his 70s and has been at it for a long time), or the NIL movement (he's old school).

The answer: "the administration". He had to deal with a number of internal headaches that were led by none other than his chancellor - whom I believe is becoming our new president.

Apparently she had a different vision for the role that athletics should play in the University environment. I was surprised to hear this as Wisconsin is a pretty respected program from a graduation rate perspective, and most of their football players who don't play in the NFL go on to interesting careers.

I suspect she thinks that too much money is spent and invested into athletics programs. I also speculate that she feels that football coaches are grossly overpaid, given her background in economics. I couldn't get many specifics from my Madison buddy as he didn't want to air their dirty laundry.

But his main takeaway was that he and other former Madison athletes are glad that she's gone, and that "she'll fit in well at Northwestern".

If you all were expecting help with admissions from our new leadership, then I think you're going to be disappointed. I have three theories for what this means for the future of NUFB which I might share in a separate post. I'm curious what our neighbors from up north will say about this as well.

 

[julescat]

I'm glad to hear this.

 

[CatManTrue]

I'm glad to hear this.

If you want NU to keep climbing in the academic ratings this is great news.

From an athletics perspective, Morty was likely the best president we could have hoped for. It’ll be really interesting to see what happens with the new administration.

 

[fcmchi]

At the time of her hiring reports were that her fundraising prowess was what really attracted the NU people who interviewed her.

Good for the endowment maybe not for athletics.

 

[MotownMedilldo]

Do you really think the Board of Trustees would allow our new University President to become the next-gen Strotz? I don't see it happening as long as Pat or Shirley Ryan are alive, and even after they're no longer with us, their children are huge NU sports boosters.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Do you really think the Board of Trustees would allow our new University President to become the next-gen Strotz? I don't see it happening as long as Pat or Shirley Ryan are alive, and even after they're no longer with us, their children are huge NU sports boosters.

That is a good point.

Some of her past stances on things like amateurism and the role of athletics still make me nervous. Of course, Blank has been the Chancellor at WI since 2013 so Alvarez was able to stick around for 8 years into his mid 70's before he left, and it's not like WI athletics aren't still dominant and modern, so it might just be nothing to worry about.

 

[phatcat]

I think we all respect Barry Alvarez. He's basically Gary Barnett, Fitz, and Mark Murphy all rolled into one person. Simply put, he led the transformation of Wisconsin football from a fellow 1980s weakling to the power that it is today.

He retired this year, and I was curious as to why. So I asked a buddy who's in the know in Madison - I expected the answer to be "his age" (he's in his 70s and has been at it for a long time), or the NIL movement (he's old school).

The answer: "the administration". He had to deal with a number of internal headaches that were led by none other than his chancellor - whom I believe is becoming our new president.

Apparently she had a different vision for the role that athletics should play in the University environment. I was surprised to hear this as Wisconsin is a pretty respected program from a graduation rate perspective, and most of their football players who don't play in the NFL go on to interesting careers.

I suspect she thinks that too much money is spent and invested into athletics programs. I also speculate that she feels that football coaches are grossly overpaid, given her background in economics. I couldn't get many specifics from my Madison buddy as he didn't want to air their dirty laundry.

But his main takeaway was that he and other former Madison athletes are glad that she's gone, and that "she'll fit in well at Northwestern".

If you all were expecting help with admissions from our new leadership, then I think you're going to be disappointed. I have three theories for what this means for the future of NUFB which I might share in a separate post. I'm curious what our neighbors from up north will say about this as well.

I think by three theories, you mean hypotheses. I can do the same: 1) She is like Morty, supports athletics but, presumably based our results, also demands admissions and athletic standards. under this one, we see no net change. 2) She would be willing to relax academic/admissions standards. Based on what you've stated, if accurately listed by your contact, this is an unlikely scenario. 3) she will be more strict than Morty. I believe we already have amongst the toughest standards, if not the toughest, so there is probably a pretty low risk of any marked change.

Sounds to me like "more of same", which is ok for me. And commenting on the poster about her being a good fundraiser - jeez, how much money do these people need? They nag me all...the...time, and they always exceed their goals. You'd think at some point they wouldn't need the ~250M tuition/fees they collect every year.

 

[No Chores]

That is a good point.

Some of her past stances on things like amateurism and the role of athletics still make me nervous. Of course, Blank has been the Chancellor at WI since 2013 so Alvarez was able to stick around for 8 years into his mid 70's before he left, and it's not like WI athletics aren't still dominant and modern, so it might just be nothing to worry about.

Another of Cat Man's mysterious friends who knows nothing. My older daughter was an athlete at UW Madison and she would be in sharp disagreement with Cat Man's fictitious buddy. The new Pres was very supportive of Wisconsin and Big Ten athletics when she was there.

 

[CatManTrue]

Another of Cat Man's mysterious friends who knows nothing. My older daughter was an athlete at UW Madison and she would be in sharp disagreement with Cat Man's fictitious buddy. The new Pres was very supportive of Wisconsin and Big Ten athletics when she was there.

So your older daughter played in a non-revenue generating sport, correct? And she probably easily got into Wisconsin and helped lift their academic profile if she took after her old man.

My buddy was on one of their Rose Bowl teams. He’s not fictional.

 

[NUCat320]

Let me have a crappy failing athletic program like Wisconsin’s…

Reasonably, Alvarez mostly sat in a press box, ate brats, and called donors during his time as AD, right?

 

[Bwm57]

Let me have a crappy failing athletic program like Wisconsin’s…

Reasonably, Alvarez mostly sat in a press box, ate brats, and called donors during his time as AD, right?

I am willing to sign up for an AD position if there is one available after hearing this!

 

[CatManTrue]

Let me have a crappy failing athletic program like Wisconsin’s…

Reasonably, Alvarez mostly sat in a press box, ate brats, and called donors during his time as AD, right?

She became their chancellor in 2013, two years after they last won the conference. At the end of 2014 their head coach Anderson mysteriously quit - would love to hear @No Chores explain that - and Chryst continued their success while Barry provided a buffer.

I think the AD role requires a bit more work than what you’re describing. But eating brats in the press box is certainly a perk.

 

[NUCat320]

@CatManTrue Anderson, who was a bad hire anyway, left because he wanted JuCo transfers. I think that was pretty well-documented at the time. Maybe she wouldn’t let him take JuCo transfers. Neither has anyone at NU since the 80s (though Steph Robinson actually started at a Kansas JuCo before KU).

 

[Alan Smithee]

I think by three theories, you mean hypotheses. I can do the same: 1) She is like Morty, supports athletics but, presumably based our results, also demands admissions and athletic standards. under this one, we see no net change. 2) She would be willing to relax academic/admissions standards. Based on what you've stated, if accurately listed by your contact, this is an unlikely scenario. 3) she will be more strict than Morty. I believe we already have amongst the toughest standards, if not the toughest, so there is probably a pretty low risk of any marked change.

Sounds to me like "more of same", which is ok for me. And commenting on the poster about her being a good fundraiser - jeez, how much money do these people need? They nag me all...the...time, and they always exceed their goals. You'd think at some point they wouldn't need the ~250M tuition/fees they collect every year.

Extremely rich institutions, like extremely rich people, didn’t get there by ever thinking they had enough.

 

[No Chores]

So your older daughter played in a non-revenue generating sport, correct? And she probably easily got into Wisconsin and helped lift their academic profile if she took after her old man.

My buddy was on one of their Rose Bowl teams. He’s not fictional.

Wisconsin is the third ranked university in the Big Ten according to U.S. News, behind only NU and Michigan. They've had excellent athletic programs for the entirety of their most recent Chancellor's tenure. She will become NU's President next year and she has a long record of strongly supporting athletics. Take a look at her resume. Your fictional buddy is full of shit, even if he actually exists. Alvarez worked successfully under her for 8 years. Who was the coach when your fictional buddy went to the Rose Bowl? You'd be well advised to move on to a subject you know something about.

 

[CatManTrue]

Wisconsin is the third ranked university in the Big Ten according to U.S. News, behind only NU and Michigan. They've had excellent athletic programs for the entirety of their most recent Chancellor's tenure. She will become NU's President next year and she has a long record of strongly supporting athletics. Take a look at her resume. Your fictional buddy is full of shit, even if he actually exists. Alvarez worked successfully under her for 8 years. Who was the coach when your fictional buddy went to the Rose Bowl? You'd be well advised to move on to a subject you know something about.

Here’s something related that I also know something about. Did you know the Ivy League doesn’t offer athletic scholarships? I heard it confirmed on one of my favorite podcasts.

 

[CatManTrue]

@CatManTrue Anderson, who was a bad hire anyway, left because he wanted JuCo transfers. I think that was pretty well-documented at the time. Maybe she wouldn’t let him take JuCo transfers. Neither has anyone at NU since the 80s (though Steph Robinson actually started at a Kansas JuCo before KU).

Correct on the Juco aspect. But a bad hire?

He went 9-4 in his first season and 10-3 in his second, and went 13-3 in conference. Both teams ended up ranked. He was also the defensive coordinator of the Utah team that beat Alabama way back when. Dude can coach.

Alvarez didn’t want him to go, but did coach in his stead in the 2014 Outback bowl.

 

[zeek55]

Our Trustees are extremely pro-"sports as front porch of the university" right now, and I doubt that will change in any of our lifetimes.

So I'm not all that worried about this. Northwestern's donors are more pro-sports than at any time in the history of the University.

She understands how important athletics is to Wisconsin and will understand that here.

In some sense, we're fortunate to have so many wealthy donors willing to give such significant sums of money to the University and that virtually all the sports infrastructure we need is basically already built or in motion (stadium revamp).

 

[CatManTrue]

Our Trustees are extremely pro-"sports as front porch of the university" right now, and I doubt that will change in any of our lifetimes.

So I'm not all that worried about this. Northwestern's donors are more pro-sports than at any time in the history of the University.

She understands how important athletics is to Wisconsin and will understand that here.

In some sense, we're fortunate to have so many wealthy donors willing to give such significant sums of money to the University and that virtually all the sports infrastructure we need is basically already built or in motion (stadium revamp).

Two points:

Wisconsin’s trustees are way more pro-athletics than NU’s. And yet Alvarez still had a contentious working relationship with her administration. Do you think that Fitz will have more or less sway than Alvarez did in Madison?

And even if we have the best facilities in the world: she could make admissions even stricter, and thus lessen our talent pool even more.

As a NU alum, I’m excited to see what she’ll do to enhance our academic profile and reputation. But as a purple-blooded NUFB fan, I’m a bit concerned given what I’ve heard out of Madison.

 

[wildcatpn]

Two points:

Wisconsin’s trustees are way more pro-athletics than NU’s. And yet Alvarez still had a contentious working relationship with her administration. Do you think that Fitz will have more or less sway than Alvarez did in Madison?

And even if we have the best facilities in the world: she could make admissions even stricter, and thus lessen our talent pool even more.

As a NU alum, I’m excited to see what she’ll do to enhance our academic profile and reputation. But as a purple-blooded NUFB fan, I’m a bit concerned given what I’ve heard out of Madison.

How do you know Wisconsin’s trustees are way more pro-athletics than NUs?

Why do you constantly spew this kind of bullshit when you have no facts to back it up? Do you just like the attention?

 

[stpaulcat]

That is a good point.

Some of her past stances on things like amateurism and the role of athletics still make me nervous. Of course, Blank has been the Chancellor at WI since 2013 so Alvarez was able to stick around for 8 years into his mid 70's before he left, and it's not like WI athletics aren't still dominant and modern, so it might just be nothing to worry about.

Maybe he doesn't want to work with their new chancellor?

 

[stpaulcat]

Two points:

Wisconsin’s trustees are way more pro-athletics than NU’s. And yet Alvarez still had a contentious working relationship with her administration. Do you think that Fitz will have more or less sway than Alvarez did in Madison?

And even if we have the best facilities in the world: she could make admissions even stricter, and thus lessen our talent pool even more.

As a NU alum, I’m excited to see what she’ll do to enhance our academic profile and reputation. But as a purple-blooded NUFB fan, I’m a bit concerned given what I’ve heard out of Madison.

There's just more of them.

 

[CatManTrue]

How do you know Wisconsin’s trustees are way more pro-athletics than NUs?

Why do you constantly spew this kind of bullshit when you have no facts to back it up? Do you just like the attention?

What do I like? I like to speak the Truth. Don’t take things so personally.

And you would have to live under a rock to think that NU’s trustees are more athletically focused than any other B1G program - and perhaps any P5 program aside from Vanderbilt or Stanford.

 

[wildcatpn]

What do I like? I like to speak the Truth. Don’t take things so personally.

And you would have to live under a rock to think that NU’s trustees are more athletically focused than any other B1G program - and perhaps any P5 program aside from Vanderbilt or Stanford.

So you’ve spoken to all the NU trustees about their support of athletics? You have no clue about how “pro” athletics any of them are.

Rocky Wirtz, Chip Morris and Michael Wilbon probably can’t compare to all the sports lovers on the Wisconsin board of trustees.

 

[CatManTrue]

So you’ve spoken to all the NU trustees about their support of athletics? You have no clue about how “pro” athletics any of them are.

Rocky Wirtz, Chip Morris and Michael Wilbon probably can’t compare to all the sports lovers on the Wisconsin board of trustees.

Congratulations on naming 3 of the nearly 70 people on our board of trustees.

Even if you include PRJ, that’s 4 people who maybe deeply care about NU athletics.

The vast majority of our trustees don’t care if our football team wins the West or goes 3-9. Check out what they spend most of their waking hours doing: making money and ensuring their kids get into NU (or Ivy League schools).

FYI the Wisconsin board are actually called Regents. So you failed that quiz too. Sorry.

 

[CatManTrue]

There's just more of them.

False. NU’s BOT was nearly 4x the size of Wisconsin’s Board of Regents last time I checked.

 

[wildcatpn]

Congratulations on naming 3 of the nearly 70 people on our board of trustees.

Even if you include PRJ, that’s 4 people who maybe deeply care about NU athletics.

The vast majority of our trustees don’t care if our football team wins the West or goes 3-9. Check out what they spend most of their waking hours doing: making money and ensuring their kids get into NU (or Ivy League schools).

FYI the Wisconsin board are actually called Regents. So you failed that quiz too. Sorry.

Congratulations on stating something as a fact when you really have no idea what any of those people think when it comes to athletics.

I don’t doubt that you bleed purple. At least you say you do. But you certainly go out of your way to paint a real dire picture when it comes to all that is NU athletics. Almost as if you get a lot of satisfaction out of it.

I know you’ll respond by just saying you speak the truth blah blah but really a lot of the things you say have no factual basis.

 

[zeek55]

Two points:

Wisconsin’s trustees are way more pro-athletics than NU’s. And yet Alvarez still had a contentious working relationship with her administration. Do you think that Fitz will have more or less sway than Alvarez did in Madison?

I don't know about that..., how many of Wisconsin's trustees have given 7+ figures to Wisconsin athletics?

I'd imagine the number is significantly greater on the NU side of that equation. Just a cursory glance at our list of trustees and I can pick out at least a dozen or two that have given significant sums of money to NU athletics.

Is money everything? Of course not, but there's a significant portion of NU trustees that view sports as the front porch of the university and that matters. And at this point, they have firm control of the board.

Honestly, the portion is fairly comparable to similar institutions at this point and in terms of $ possibly greater. I think virtually all of them can see the benefits that the University gets from having its name out there in Big Ten athletics whether on the fundraising side or the applications side or promotional side or whatever other angle you take.

 

[stpaulcat]

False. NU’s BOT was nearly 4x the size of Wisconsin’s Board of Regents last time I checked.

Seriously, you spend time checking the size of University's Boards of Regents? Then, you likely also have a tape measure.

 

[CatManTrue]

Congratulations on stating something as a fact when you really have no idea what any of those people think when it comes to athletics.

I don’t doubt that you bleed purple. At least you say you do. But you certainly go out of your way to paint a real dire picture when it comes to all that is NU athletics. Almost as if you get a lot of satisfaction out of it.

I know you’ll respond by just saying you speak the truth blah blah but really a lot of the things you say have no factual basis.

Here are a few of the predictions that I’ve made on either this board or the Rock that have come true. I’m missing a few but perhaps someone could help me out. I’d like to see your list. I admit that an Ohio buddy was yanking my chain about OSU replacing Vanderbilt in the SEC - which was fun to discuss regardless - but a superconference is clearly in the works thanks to NIL.

• Clayton Thorson was grossly underappreciated by our fan base
• Fitz would remove McCall shortly after the 2019 season
• Evan Hull would easily lead our team in rushing this season
• Virtually all of my 2021 unit predictions were accurate (aside from the LB unit being our best on defense… yikes!)
• That JON wasn’t truly interviewed and we would regret his hiring
• We were facing several decommitments after that season (we’ve lost 3 so far sadly)
• At least one coach would retire (Heffner), although I thought there would be two or three
• Jim Phillips would be a better commissioner than Warren (despite those who claim I’m a JP / Fitz hater)

 

[stpaulcat]

Here are a few of the predictions that I’ve made on either this board or the Rock that have come true. I’m missing a few but perhaps someone could help me out. I’d like to see your list. I admit that an Ohio buddy was yanking my chain about OSU replacing Vanderbilt in the SEC - which was fun to discuss regardless - but a superconference is clearly in the works thanks to NIL.

• Clayton Thorson was grossly underappreciated by our fan base
• Fitz would remove McCall shortly after the 2019 season
• Evan Hull would easily lead our team in rushing this season
• Virtually all of my 2021 unit predictions were accurate (aside from the LB unit being our best on defense… yikes!)
• That JON wasn’t truly interviewed and we would regret his hiring
• We were facing several decommitments after that season (we’ve lost 3 so far sadly)
• At least one coach would retire (Heffner), although I thought there would be two or three
• Jim Phillips would be a better commissioner than Warren (despite those who claim I’m a JP / Fitz hater)

Brilliant. Does Rivals have an annual trophy for most predictions come true? Can FloridAlum arrange a banquet?

 

[wildcatpn]

Here are a few of the predictions that I’ve made on either this board or the Rock that have come true. I’m missing a few but perhaps someone could help me out. I’d like to see your list. I admit that an Ohio buddy was yanking my chain about OSU replacing Vanderbilt in the SEC - which was fun to discuss regardless - but a superconference is clearly in the works thanks to NIL.

• Clayton Thorson was grossly underappreciated by our fan base
• Fitz would remove McCall shortly after the 2019 season
• Evan Hull would easily lead our team in rushing this season
• Virtually all of my 2021 unit predictions were accurate (aside from the LB unit being our best on defense… yikes!)
• That JON wasn’t truly interviewed and we would regret his hiring
• We were facing several decommitments after that season (we’ve lost 3 so far sadly)
• At least one coach would retire (Heffner), although I thought there would be two or three
• Jim Phillips would be a better commissioner than Warren (despite those who claim I’m a JP / Fitz hater)

1). I don’t spend a lot of time making predictions
2). What do predictions have to do with my comment about your lack of facts?
3). The first “prediction” in your list is not a prediction.
4). Several of those predictions could’ve been made by my dog.

 

[CatManTrue]

1). I don’t spend a lot of time making predictions
2). What do predictions have to do with my comment about your lack of facts?
3). The first “prediction” in your list is not a prediction.
4). Several of those predictions could’ve been made by my dog.

1) perhaps because you realize your limits. Well done.

2) Predictions that become facts prove there were facts predicted. Right?

3) it was when I made it. A lot of our fans crapped all over Thorson and I tried my best to speak the truth.

4) I asked my dog how life can be sometimes. She said “ruff!”

 

[Katatonic]

Here are a few of the predictions that I’ve made on either this board or the Rock that have come true. I’m missing a few but perhaps someone could help me out. I’d like to see your list. I admit that an Ohio buddy was yanking my chain about OSU replacing Vanderbilt in the SEC - which was fun to discuss regardless - but a superconference is clearly in the works thanks to NIL.

• Clayton Thorson was grossly underappreciated by our fan base

If anything, CT is probably a bit over-appreciated, getting more credit for the success of those teams when he had some of the best defenses the program has had and JJtBC.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

This this is a two-way argument calling the Reagents of a public university "trustees" and comparing them to the donor class that makes up the trustees of a private institution like NU shows how stupid this conversation is.

 

[CatManTrue]

This this is a two-way argument calling the Reagents of a public university "trustees" and comparing them to the donor class that makes up the trustees of a private institution like NU shows how stupid this conversation is.

Huh?

 

[hdhntr1]

I think we all respect Barry Alvarez. He's basically Gary Barnett, Fitz, and Mark Murphy all rolled into one person. Simply put, he led the transformation of Wisconsin football from a fellow 1980s weakling to the power that it is today.

He retired this year, and I was curious as to why. So I asked a buddy who's in the know in Madison - I expected the answer to be "his age" (he's in his 70s and has been at it for a long time), or the NIL movement (he's old school).

The answer: "the administration". He had to deal with a number of internal headaches that were led by none other than his chancellor - whom I believe is becoming our new president.

Apparently she had a different vision for the role that athletics should play in the University environment. I was surprised to hear this as Wisconsin is a pretty respected program from a graduation rate perspective, and most of their football players who don't play in the NFL go on to interesting careers.

I suspect she thinks that too much money is spent and invested into athletics programs. I also speculate that she feels that football coaches are grossly overpaid, given her background in economics. I couldn't get many specifics from my Madison buddy as he didn't want to air their dirty laundry.

But his main takeaway was that he and other former Madison athletes are glad that she's gone, and that "she'll fit in well at Northwestern".

If you all were expecting help with admissions from our new leadership, then I think you're going to be disappointed. I have three theories for what this means for the future of NUFB which I might share in a separate post. I'm curious what our neighbors from up north will say about this as well.

Since she is leaving why would BA feel he still had to?

 

[hdhntr1]

Another of Cat Man's mysterious friends who knows nothing. My older daughter was an athlete at UW Madison and she would be in sharp disagreement with Cat Man's fictitious buddy. The new Pres was very supportive of Wisconsin and Big Ten athletics when she was there.

Maybe but a you said, daughter and that is not really the big time athletics he was referring to as that is likely to be FB and MBB as the are the engine that pulls everything else so that is often where the big bucks are spent. As a woman athlete, they are not in big money area so unlikely to be affected

 

[NUCat320]

Gary Anderson was a bad hire because clearly the terms of employment weren’t stated up front, and he wasn’t willing to abide by them when they were. Gary Anderson also , outside of two seasons with Bielema’s roster, has been a loser everywhere else. He was fired mid-season in each of his subsequent jobs, and was only able to stick as an analyst for Weber State this year.

Alvarez made a terrible hire.

Anyway, I refuse to believe that Barry Alvarez served as a AD AD. I think he was a fat guy who used to coach Ron Dayne for a living, and enjoyed his sweet sweet stadium office. Regardless of his opinion, it’s not relevant. Brats and grandkids and six Saturdays watching others jump around.

Not sure what this thread is about, nor if what I just wrote make sense.

 

[hdhntr1]

Wisconsin is the third ranked university in the Big Ten according to U.S. News, behind only NU and Michigan. They've had excellent athletic programs for the entirety of their most recent Chancellor's tenure. She will become NU's President next year and she has a long record of strongly supporting athletics. Take a look at her resume. Your fictional buddy is full of shit, even if he actually exists. Alvarez worked successfully under her for 8 years. Who was the coach when your fictional buddy went to the Rose Bowl? You'd be well advised to move on to a subject you know something about.

I guess we won't have to read much from him anymore if he does that