Conference runner up, loses in Conference Tourney and is an 8th seed? Minny a 5th seed? Did someone mix up their index cards? WTF? I'd hate to play the Badgers, Bucky is going to have a big time chip on their shoulders.
Wisconsin really did get screwed
- Thread starter CoralSpringsCat
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They will have a chip, but unfortunately they'll have to deal with the defending champs in the second round. They definitely got screwed.
They got screwed more than anyone else. In related news, Villanova also get screwed. I, like many others (including the committee), think Villanova is the best team in the country. As a reward for that, you stick them against Wisconsin (as long as they win that first round game) in round two? That's just cruel. Villanova likely wins that game, but Wisconsin could absolutely pull off that upset on the right day. Great defensive team, rarely turns it over, an All American big man, two extremely experienced seniors (Hayes and Koenig) and a guy who is about as clutch as it gets in big games (Koenig).
Hey, Villanova. Congrats on getting that overall 1 seed.
And then look who's the #2 seed in that region - Duke, probably the hottest team in college basketball right now.
I'm picking Wisconsin over Villanova, and also picking Northwestern over Vandy, Gonzaga and Notre Dame before losing to Arizona in the Elite Eight.
As I said, I think Villanova is the best team in the country. But I also fully believe that Wisky could take down anyone on the right day and I don't think the odds are 100-1. I give Wisconsin a 20% chance of winning that game and I don't think the #1 team in the country should have to face that in round 2. Keep in mind everything I said in my original post and also add in that they are arguably the most experienced tournament team in the entire country (Villanova is up there too).
I am too. I would love another crack at the domers in the Sweet 16.
Wisconsin lost to us at home so are being punished for that
/s
I saw some comments on yahoo sports from yahoo Wisconsin fans - "now we're even" and "that's what you get for that meaningless dunk". Like 8 comments in same vein. Jeez, get over it
Plus they lost to Michigag which pisses me off to no end.
/s
I saw some comments on yahoo sports from yahoo Wisconsin fans - "now we're even" and "that's what you get for that meaningless dunk". Like 8 comments in same vein. Jeez, get over it
Plus they lost to Michigag which pisses me off to no end.
I saw some comments on yahoo sports
That's just self-punishment. Next you'll tell us you read YouTube comments.
That's just self-punishment. Next you'll tell us you read YouTube comments.
That was no 8 seed that blew us out in the semis.
I was gonna have Wisco go deep in my bracket, but it's kinda hard to put them up over Nova. I think they could win, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I was surprised Wisconsin beat us the second time--they are big and tough, but a very good, quicker team will beat them (like we did and like Michigan did and like villanova will). We seemed to have lead feet against Wisconsin on Sat, likely because of the tough game against Maryland the afternoon before.
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I'm a lifelong ISU fan and they had a good season, but I don't see them as being screwed out of a bid. Only quality win was Wichita State, which returned the favor with two beat downs. Two losses to teams with RPI rankings over 100, and beat only two teams with RPIs under 100.
I pretty much just look at KenPom which has ISU at 51. ISU was pushed out more by the automatic bids which give teams in the 100's and 200's spots in the tourney.
Now that NU is in, let me grouse about how unfair the auto-bid system is. For three decades teams have moved up from DIII and DII, formed conferences together and received auto bids to the dance. While much, much better teams are left out.
What is the justification for Minny being seeded so much higher than Wisky? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever ever to me. None.
I believe the correct answer is none. Also, the two teams played on the last day of regular season, and Wisconsin won by 17.
Wisconsin's Non-Conference Strength of Schedule was 304th in the country. Minnesota's was 28th. WIsconsin's Non-Conference RPI was 23rd, Minnesota's was 10th. WIsconsin had 5 wins against the top 50. Minnesota had 8 wins (both had 7 losses against the top 50). Minny really did have a better year and played a tougher schedule.
Have you checked those numbers yourself or are you quoting it from a Minnesota fan's post?
I ask because out of curiosity I took a quick look at the NC schedule of both teams. Just looking at the names of the teams and their ranking at the time of the game (their final ranking may have changed) it seems that the Badgers may have actually played a TOUGHER OOC schedule. Some of Wisky's opponents (with ranking at the time of the game) includes:
at No. 22 Creighton (T)
vs. Tennessee
vs. Georgetown
vs. No. 4 North Carolina (T)
No. 22 Syracuse (NIT)
Oklahoma
at Marquette (T)
Green Bay
May not be one of the tougher OOC schedules, but doesn't strike as particularly soft.
What about Minny?
SJ
Arkansas (T)
at FSU (T)
vs Vandy (T)
None of Miny's OOC opponents was ranked when the game was played, but some did improve (FSU was #16 recently).
If Minny's OOC schedule is tougher it doesn't seem to be by much, and in fact might be softer.
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Perhaps it had something to do with their conference schedules as well. Wisconsin played Mich, and MN twice while MN played MSU, WIS and MD twice. Also WIS played us at home and MN played us and PU on the road.
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It seems they faced each other and OSU twice. The difference is only in 3 teams, which one played twice but not the other. Tough to argue that gave either team a major advantage.
WISC: Mich Indy RU
MINN: Mary MSU PSU
At the end of the day,
Wisky swept Minny H2H,
finished higher in the B1G standing
went farther in the BTT.
Wisky was also in the AP top 25 thru the season, and Minny only briefly mid season.
Whatever the Committee saw isn't easy to identify.
According to CBS w/links:
Minnesota:
RPI - 20
Noncon SOS - 27
SOS All games - 20
Wisconsin:
RPI - 36
Noncon SOS - 276
SOS all games - 71
It appears the gap between the two is largely driven by Wisconsin playing five 300+ RPI teams and Minnesota playing zero 300+ RPI teams.
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They don't bother to say how they actually come up with their SOS figures. There are all sort of things that you can call SOS. Since their whole thing seems to be based on RPI, their SOS is probably a brain-dead thing like the average W/L record of your opponents, which doesn't take into account a lot of things (say a relatively weak opponent playing mostly even weaker teams in a weak conference).
Whatever the method they use to come up with their figures, when you actually compare their opponents it does NOT appear that Minny played a much tougher schedule than Wisky did, and may in fact have played a softer one.
RPI is calculated as 25% your winning percentage, 50% your opponents' winning percentage , and 25% your opponents' opponents' winning percentage. There is also an adjustment for home and away wins and losses (home win = .6 and a home loss = 1.4, road win = 1.4 and a road loss = .6, neutral win/loss = 1). The SOS ranking is simply based on the 75% of the RPI formula that does not include your own winning percentage.
RPI
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Yeah, as I suspected: a braindead thing as is the RPI. I've known the RPI formula for years. But it isn't immediately obvious that they would define SOS that way (2/3 your opps winning %, 1/3 the win % of their opp).
Ultimately what matters most is how the Committee did it. As I understand they do NOT use SOS directly. They just group a team's opponents using the RPI, and then look at things like: W/L record against the RPI top 50, etc. It's obvious they looked at both teams seasons in a way that made Minny's record looks better than Wisky. Whichever the way, I and many will remain unconvinced their conclusion was right.
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