Would PBJ not take a scholarship?

[EvanstonCat]

I think it sucks to run a guy off that in theory complied with the terms of his scholarship. CCC recruited, offered and accepted him as a player for the team he Coaches.

I can see where you’re coming from. OTOH, if it’s a conversation about playing time, and Greer wants to play and decides to leave, that’s another thing. That’s happened on more than one occasion already, and I’m not sure we had any problems with that. I also have less of a problem with it if the school is able to give the kid an academic scholarship to complete his studies, but I’m guessing the B1G rules don’t allow for that.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

OK, I stand corrected. Although not sure what good standing with athletic department means (if a kid isn’t considered a meaningful contributor athletically, would he be in good standing?)

Looks like then, the only chance is to convince Greer that for basketball reasons he might move on for the mutual benefit of the program and himself (if he cares about PT). Or does this preclude the possibility that Greer could be taken care of like Vassar was on academic scholarship to complete his studies at NU, but he doesn’t have to be a part of the team or count?

And does this guarantee a 5th year? I would hope not.

Vassar was never on academic scholarship. He remained on athletic scholarship and counted against our numbers.

No one is guaranteed a 5th year.

This is great fodder for the basketball premium board.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I think it's a real long-shot to think Greer could have his degree by June 2021. Sure, some players have pulled it off in three years, but Greer faces additional challenges. This is all speculation but 1) He graduated early from high school making it less likely that he had a chance to come in with a whole bunch of AP credits, and 2) With everyone away from campus because of Covid-19, I would think it would be much harder to get the extra classes needed to finish in three years.
We can argue whether it would be worth pushing Greer off the team in favor of a superstar recruit, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking he would graduate just to ease our consciences. If I'm wrong, and there's evidence that he's somehow is on track to graduate by June of 2021, then wow, kudos to him, and I'll just shut up.

Football and basketball players who take a "full load" are often ahead of schedule because they're typically also taking summer courses. It's plausible, but I have no direct knowledge of Greer's situation. He also reportedly had a 3.7 high school GPA with a 1310 SAT, so he would seem perfectly capable of handling the workload.

 

[FightNorthwestern]

I can see where you’re coming from. OTOH, if it’s a conversation about playing time, and Greer wants to play and decides to leave, that’s another thing. That’s happened on more than one occasion already, and I’m not sure we had any problems with that. I also have less of a problem with it if the school is able to give the kid an academic scholarship to complete his studies, but I’m guessing the B1G rules don’t allow for that.

You can't simply just allocate a student-athlete to an academic scholarship. Every school would do it if they could.

 

[JournCat]

You can't simply just allocate a student-athlete to an academic scholarship. Every school would do it if they could.

That's what we tried to do with Vassar. Didn't go well. As a Collins fan, I hope he's learned that lesson and does nothing to apply even indirect pressure on Greer or anyone else.

 

[No Chores]

Vassar was never on academic scholarship. He remained on athletic scholarship and counted against our numbers.

No one is guaranteed a 5th year.

This is great fodder for the basketball premium board.

Agreed on all counts

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

Only 4 years are guaranteed and good standing is not impacted by competitiveness (or health) of the athlete. Athletes would have to agree to transition to an academic scholarship and may lose out on some academic support, etc as well.

FYI, below are some of the reasons scholarships can and cannot be reduced or cancelled. Basically, it is a 4-year agreement, but once a degree is complete, the scholarship obligation is, too. Otherwise, it is only personal choice or misconduct that reduces or cancels a scholarship, not performance or injury.

TENDER OF FINANCIAL AID
DURING ACADEMIC YEAR 2020-21 THROUGH 2024-25

This tender may be immediately reduced or canceled during the period of this award per NCAA Bylaw 15.3.4 if I:
Render myself ineligible for intercollegiate competition;
Fraudulently misrepresent any information on an application, letter of intent, or financial aid agreement;
Engage in serious misconduct warranting substantial disciplinary penalty, as determined by Northwestern University’s regular
student disciplinary authority;
Engage in conduct resulting in a criminal charge(s) subsequent to signing this agreement;
Violate a documented institutional rule or policy (e.g., academics policies or standards, athletics department or team rules or
policies);
Voluntarily withdraw from a sport at any time for personal reasons;
Withdraw from the institution at any time (even if I reenroll at the institution during the same academic year);
Receive countable aid that causes me and/or my team to exceed NCAA financial aid limits; and/or
Complete my degree requirements and athletics eligibility prior to the termination of the award period indicated on page 1 of
this document.
Athletics aid may be canceled during the period of this award if I complete my initial baccalaureate degree
requirements.

Tender will not be reduced or canceled during the period of the award per NCAA Bylaw 15.3.5, nor may it be
reduced or nonrenewed for the following academic year per NCAA Bylaw 15.3.5.2:
On the basis of my athletics ability, performance or contribution to the team’s success;
Because of an injury, illness, or physical or mental condition (except as permitted pursuant to Bylaw 15.3.4); or
For any other athletics reason

 

[PURPLECAT88]

FYI, below are some of the reasons scholarships can and cannot be reduced or cancelled. Basically, it is a 4-year agreement, but once a degree is complete, the scholarship obligation is, too. Otherwise, it is only personal choice or misconduct that reduces or cancels a scholarship, not performance or injury.

We cannot cancel a scholarship for injury, but a career-ending injury can make the player a non-counter against the scholarship limit. We've seen that numerous times in football including Jeremy Larkin and Cameron Queiro.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

I have a hard time seeing PBJ coming to Northwestern without a scholarship. While his Dad is a former NU player and assistant coach, it would be difficult to see Dad picking up the tab to pay NU when PBJ could go be with Dad in Milwaukee for free or go to a high major program under scholarship. If PBJ has some emotional attachment to NU from his Dad and being around the university as a kid and he actually did make that sacrifice for NU basketball it would be really great, but probably highly unlikely and more or less an NU pipe dream. The best scenario I see for NU is that PBJ does have homegrown affinity for NU, but comes to the program on scholarship.

If pbj comes without a scholarship it would be by volunteer to add depth and increase a final 4 run. It would actually increase his nba draft stock as well. He is a one and done so his $55,000 one year investment should return him another million or 2.
Sources say that he is coming here.
Also, the reason why this is our best class is because Simmons already knows PBJ is coming. And maybe Christy as well.
Remember, Simmons committed without even coming to the campus. You know why.

 

[DaCat]

Hoo boy.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

Hoo boy.

PBJ may or may not come but he was never going to take a scholarship that was offered. Turk reported this a month ago. He also seems to think that PBJ is almost certainly coming. He isnt the only one that knows this. There is also proper politics going on since there may be 2 other players involved, including Gaines. So some things havent been announced yet because it could affect another player. But I guess you can go ahead and keep on wondering why a top 85 recruit committed here without never setting foot on campus and little interaction. He knows.

 

[DaCat]

Hoo boy.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

If pbj comes without a scholarship it would be by volunteer to add depth and increase a final 4 run. It would actually increase his nba draft stock as well. He is a one and done so his $55,000 one year investment should return him another million or 2.
Sources say that he is coming here.
Also, the reason why this is our best class is because Simmons already knows PBJ is coming. And maybe Christy as well.
Remember, Simmons committed without even coming to the campus. You know why.

Haha...such nonsense. Simmons and his family were literally in Evanston when they committed. Visited on their own dime. Check your sources!!

 

[Medill90]

Haha...such nonsense. Simmons and his family were literally in Evanston when they committed. Visited on their own dime. Check your sources!!

They were in Evanston Saturday?

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

They were in Evanston Saturday?

Yes

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

Haha...such nonsense. Simmons and his family were literally in Evanston when they committed. Visited on their own dime. Check your sources!!

As of this morning in LouVs interview, casey said he never stepped foot at NU when he committed or prior. Check Lou's article and commentary.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

Yes

Committed sight unseen according to Casey and he never stepped foot on the campus unless he was lying to Lou.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Committed sight unseen according to Casey and he never stepped foot on the campus unless he was lying to Lou.

Oops...sorry Turk. Must have gotten himconfused with another recruit. My apologies.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

PBJ may or may not come but he was never going to take a scholarship that was offered...

It has been stated on several occasions that players of PBJ caliber do not walk on.

He may or may not come, but Collins was ALWAYS going have a scholarship ready. It’s a literal no-brainer; asking PBJ to pay tuition would be worse than Carmody failing to show for Kaminsky’s visit. That ain’t gonna happen.

Time to let the silliness go.

 

[cedricmelons]

It has been stated on several occasions that players of PBJ calibre do not walk on.

He may or may not come, but was ALWAYS going have a scholarship ready. It’s a literal no-brainer; Collins asking him to walk on would be worse than Carmody failing to show for Kaminsky’s visit. That ain’t gonna happen.

Time to let the silliness go.

But we have never had a player of this caliber whose parents played and/or coached at NU and make $400K+ give us the time of day. On top of the millions he would likely get paid in 2022, I don't think one year's tuition, room, and board would be an issue for the family.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

But we have never had a player of this caliber whose parents played and/or coached at NU and make $400K+ give us the time of day. On top of the millions he would likely get paid in 2022, I don't think one year's tuition, to, and board would be an issue for the family.

I think you may be significantly overestimating the allure of NU, even for a kid raised around the program.

Why not instead play for Duke (better coaching/elite academics/NBA prep), UW-Milwaukee (close to home/Dad is the coach) or UW-Madison (BIG + nice combination of the priors) without taking on five figures of debt?

It’s not a stretch to say it’s unlikely (eg: less than 50%) PB Jr will don the purple even with the same full ride PB Sr got...you think he’ll come back to Evanston without it?

There is no way Collins suddenly ignores the most basic component of recruiting. That would be complete negligence on his part.

 

[Medill90]

A reason for Baldwin to choose Duke is to get away from his parents, something a lot of teenagers want to do.

But now that the family lives in Milwauikee, I could see how NU is more attractive because he has distance, but not so much that mom can't see every game.

I really can't think of one NBA player who went into Duke and had his game transformed by staff. From Corey Maggette to now, they are the same product exiting as entering. Not an indictment, just what I see.

Pretty difficult to transform a one and done....he shows up in late June and is done with the program in nine months. Sure, kids get better, but not that fast.

He may go to Duke because he likes Duke. I pleaded for my kids to apply to NU, they weren't interested. Wanted to be a few states away.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

It has been stated on several occasions that players of PBJ caliber do not walk on.

He may or may not come, but Collins was ALWAYS going have a scholarship ready. It’s a literal no-brainer; asking PBJ to pay tuition would be worse than Carmody failing to show for Kaminsky’s visit. That ain’t gonna happen.

Time to let the silliness go.

Not sure what you are talking about. Are you saying that you believe Collins is asking PBJ to walkon?
Thats absurd.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

I think you may be significantly overestimating the allure of NU, even for a kid raised around the program.

Why not instead play for Duke (better coaching/elite academics/NBA prep), UW-Milwaukee (close to home/Dad is the coach) or UW-Madison (BIG + nice combination of the priors) without taking on five figures of debt?

It’s not a stretch to say it’s unlikely (eg: less than 50%) PB Jr will don the purple even with the same full ride PB Sr got...you think he’ll come back to Evanston without it?

There is no way Collins suddenly ignores the most basic component of recruiting. That would be complete negligence on his part.

Although I dont think any walkon decision would be money related, it isnt like NU would have the depth to make a final 4 run, which I would assume is the idea of any "one and done" to enhance their Top 10 nba draft position.
Presently, both PBJ and Christy are penciled in as a top 10 2022 NBA draft.
Having Simmons and Gaines or Simmons and Christy enhances a final 4 run.

 

[Sec.112]

Excuse me for adding to the list of generally unrealistic reasons Baldwin might choose NU. I wonder if rising COVID rates in North Carolina are a consideration.

I know it's a stretch. I think the commitment to the last scholarship demonstrates the true story.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

Even as a diehard NU homer, the absurdity of the casual nature of a discussion about a top 3 recruit not only potentially coming to NU, but walking on, is up there with "wind farms cause cancer," "nobody's asking for ventilators," or "Rutgers football."

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Not sure what you are talking about. Are you saying that you believe Collins is asking PBJ to walkon?
Thats absurd.

I agree, it’s absurd. That is why I’ve posted multiple times (in a thread with the title “Would PBJ not take a scholarship?”) that Collins WILL have a scholarship available for Baldwin Jr. if he were to commit to NU.

Not sure why you posted the following:

“he may or may not come, but he was never going to take a scholarship that was offered”

That is the quote I was responding to.

 

[Medill90]

Oops...sorry Turk. Must have gotten himconfused with another recruit. My apologies.

At this point, it's safe to report that there have been multiple, conflicting reports of Casey Simmons in downtown Evanston the same day he announced.

It may be have been Casey, or it may have been a Casey doppelganger. What's clear is that some people don't want anyone to get to the bottom of this.

 

[DaCat]

Not sure why you posted the following:

“he may or may not come, but he was never going to take a scholarship that was offered”

That is the quote I was responding to.

He was trolling again.

 

[CatManTrue]

Even as a diehard NU homer, the absurdity of the casual nature of a discussion about a top 3 recruit not only potentially coming to NU, but walking on, is up there with "wind farms cause cancer," "nobody's asking for ventilators," or "Rutgers football."

...as absurd as a the idea of Texas and Oklahoma joining the B1G?

 

[CatManTrue]

At this point, it's safe to report that there have been multiple, conflicting reports of Casey Simmons in downtown Evanston the same day he announced.

It may be have been Casey, or it may have been a Casey doppelganger. What's clear is that some people don't want anyone to get to the bottom of this.

Now we have a recruit who can relate to WickerTurk.

Casey just has a duplicate who parrots him, praises him, and agrees with everything he says. It happens more often than you’d think.

Heck of a commit by the way.

 

[Katatonic]

Why not instead play for Duke (better coaching/elite academics/NBA prep), UW-Milwaukee (close to home/Dad is the coach) or UW-Madison (BIG + nice combination of the priors) without taking on five figures of debt?

Considering that CC spent all those years with K and the Dook staff, is the coaching or NBA prep really that much better?

 

[Katatonic]

A reason for Baldwin to choose Duke is to get away from his parents, something a lot of teenagers want to do.

That, however, doesn’t seem to be an issue for PBJ considering his serious consideration playing for his dad,.

But now that the family lives in Milwauikee, I could see how NU is more attractive because he has distance, but not so much that mom can't see every game.

Likely NU's biggest advantage over Dook; SR should be able to make it several games as well.

Pretty difficult to transform a one and done....he shows up in late June and is done with the program in nine months. Sure, kids get better, but not that fast.

Agreed.

Emoni Bates would be the #1 pick (if able to jump from HS) - even if he graduates a year early.

Although I dont think any walkon decision would be money related, it isnt like NU would have the depth to make a final 4 run, which I would assume is the idea of any "one and done" to enhance their Top 10 nba draft position.

Presently, both PBJ and Christy are penciled in as a top 10 2022 NBA draft.
Having Simmons and Gaines or Simmons and Christy enhances a final 4 run.

Where PBJ ends up getting drafted will largely be based on what he does during the regular season, esp. B1G play (and the conference tourney).

Playing well in the NCAAs doesn't hurt, but as long as he plays well, making the Elite 8 vs the FF will have zero impact on his draft status.

2 of the projected lottery picks for the upcoming draft played in Australia.

4 of the top 20 recruits in the 2020 class are going pro and another one is going to an HBC (Howard).

Dook got bounced out of the Tourney before the FF and yet Zion went #1 (did anyone not know that Zion was going to be the #1 pick even before the ACC tourney, much less the NCAAs started)?

Last time Dook made the FF was in 2015.

Also, the Cats came agonizingly close to playing the 2nd weekend; a team with PBJ (even without Gaines and Christie) would be a good bit more talented (greater depth).

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Considering that CC spent all those years with K and the Dook staff, is the coaching or NBA prep really that much better?

It should be noted that post you quoted was in response to the suggestion PBJ could walk on at NU, thus the “without taking on five figures of debt” bit. Context is important here.

That being said, Coach K., regardless of one’s personal opinion of the man, is truly one of best in the history of the game. He is also the coach of United States men’s basketball team; he deals with professional athletes regularly. While PBJ would get excellent instruction from NU’s staff, Duke is on another level. Not really debatable.

The good news is that players of his caliber (probably) aren’t going to be on campus more than a year. PBJ’s professional development would not be hampered by a year in Evanston and would get just as much attention playing in the BIG and in the Chicago market. The team he would be joining would be talented, battle tested, and likely ready to compete at a high level.

 

[Katatonic]

You mean the same coach that CC has spent nearly 2 decades with, including being on the staff of the national team?

Plus, CC has his dad as a resource and his former HS coach on his staff that coached in the NBA.

Also, seem to recall numerous Dook teams get bumped out of the Tourney by a lower seed, despite Dook pretty much always getting a favorable seed and region.

What had posted had no bearing on whether PBJ walks on or not (which had already stated likely wasn't going to happen).

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

You mean the same coach that CC has spent nearly 2 decades with, including being on the staff of the national team?

Plus, CC has his dad as a resource and his former HS coach on his staff that coached in the NBA.

Also, seem to recall numerous Dook teams get bumped out of the Tourney by a lower seed, despite Dook pretty much always getting a favorable seed and region.

What had posted had no bearing on whether PBJ walks on or not (which had already stated likely wasn't going to happen).

Katatonic,

I never said Collins isn’t legit in this area. No need to dig in your heels.

All I’m saying is that Coach K. is at the top of the heap. Over four decades of success at the top level of college hoops and multiple high first round picks (past and present) will do that. I’m no fan of Duke, but you have to give them credit when it’s due.

And again the post you quoted was in the context of comparing walking on at NU vs a scholarship from Duke, UW-Milwaukee, UW-Madison. The point was to quickly show the pros of the other programs (not to debate their merits vs NU; that would be a different thread) and that there is no chance Baldwin signs without a scholarship.

 

[greatness1987]

Think that he wouldn't get the same scholarship this year, but why couldn't he to take another one? For example I had I big problems in school because of my hobbies - football and pool. I have been spending all my days long on competitions and workouts. One time my favorite teacher recommended me tri to find some sports scholarships and me the link to the listsofscholarships.com . I were shocked that in the world there are a lot of really good and easy to get scholarships.

 

[Katatonic]

Katatonic,

I never said Collins isn’t legit in this area. No need to dig in your heels.

All I’m saying is that Coach K. is at the top of the heap. Over four decades of success at the top level of college hoops and multiple high first round picks (past and present) will do that. I’m no fan of Duke, but you have to give them credit when it’s due.[quote

You don't think after all those years with K, that CC doesn't know the ins and outs of K's methods?

And really, for 1 and dones, not really going to matter as they won't spend enough time for such things to have a material impact.

Being a 1st round pick has more to do with the talent of players than being "coached up", esp. for 1 and dones,

PBJ could sit out the season and still would end up being a high draft pick.

Someone like Emoni Bates could sit out and he would still be the #1 pick.

Now speaking of talent level, UNC won a natty more recently than Dook, but without the super blue chip recruits due to the academic scandal (and maybe Dook boostes having outbid U NC boostets); instead, relying on good players who have stayed with the program.

The Cats will have a nice mix of upperclassmen and young talent if PBJ decides to join the '21 class.