Bo Ryan and Tom Izzo. No question. Not the top players in the country like KY, but they just get it done every single year and with great class. The B1G is blessed to have these guys and we are so fortunate to be able to see them every year in our conference season.
Best two coaches in America
- Thread starter DocCatsFan
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The halftime adjustments by both have been simply stunning in the tournament. Bo made Sean Miller look like a high school coach in the second half tonight, which is not easy to do.
Given equal talent, which isn't often the case, I'll put Bo and Izzo against Coach K. No doubt he pulls in more big recruits, though.
Geez, given "equal talent", I'd put Carmody up there. Whose job is it to recruit, anyway? And didn't Ryan lose by 10 to Duke earlier this season in Madison? Maybe we'll see a rematch in the Finals.
Anyway, I think all three are terrific coaches. I'm having a tough time coming up with a 4th of equal caliber.
Anyway, I think all three are terrific coaches. I'm having a tough time coming up with a 4th of equal caliber.
Give Coach K credit for getting the momentum going at Duke and starting the buzz. Part of his success in recent years has been the inability of the Illinois schools to keep people at home (Scheyer, Parker, Okafor etc.). I believe Bo has beaten him a time or two in the past. I don't put much stock in the one game this year. I believe Michigan State lost to Texas Southern earlier in the year, and they're in the Elite Eight. Only way we'll see a rematch of Duke-Wisconsin is if Wisconsin gets by Kentucky, and I don't think it's a sure thing that Duke beats Gonzaga, either.
I'll certainly admit that recruiting is a part of the game, but I'm thinking here more along the lines of who actually is the best on game day, and I'll still let Bo or Izzo coach my team any time on that basis. It frustrates me to see a used-car salesman like Roy Williams win a poorly coached game by overwhelming people with superior talent, but that's the way it goes. Coach K is different in that he can actually coach.
I'll certainly admit that recruiting is a part of the game, but I'm thinking here more along the lines of who actually is the best on game day, and I'll still let Bo or Izzo coach my team any time on that basis. It frustrates me to see a used-car salesman like Roy Williams win a poorly coached game by overwhelming people with superior talent, but that's the way it goes. Coach K is different in that he can actually coach.
Agree about used car salesmen like Williams and Calipari. Their game day coaching talents are WAY overrated. Pitino Senior actually seems to get more out of less, particularly this season. Brey has done a nice job in 15 years at ND.
Few is consistent at GU but this is the first year he has gone deep into the tournament.
For my money, Izzo is #1, followed by K and then Ryan.
Few is consistent at GU but this is the first year he has gone deep into the tournament.
For my money, Izzo is #1, followed by K and then Ryan.
Another hall of fame coach that no one is mentioning is Rick Pitino who has won two national championships with UK and Louisville and has gone to numerous Final 4s and even brought Providence to the Final 4. Last time I checked, Rick Pitino has just a strong record as Izzo and his one national championship in 2000. Bo Ryan actually has talented players on the roster as Kaminsky and Dekker will be NBA first round picks in July and Bronson Koening and Nigel Hayes were both 4-star recruits. Obviously, Ryan should get credit for his player's development and strong fundamentals, but he is working with very good talent on this year's team. I am just pointing this out and he will be in the Hall of Fame shortly.
As for recruiting and evaluating which players to recruit, that is an enormous part of evaluating coaches and can never be downplayed in evaluating coaches. Recruiting, development of players, developing scouting reports and strategies to beat teams and game day strategies are all critical to a coach's success. Also, hiring strong assistant coaches who can recruit is essential. There was an assistant coach (associate head coach) who was responsible for the midwest region and particularly Illinois and Chicago for Coach K. He successfully recruited a player (Jon Scheyer) from Glenbrook North High School whose coach was the brother of the Illinois coach at the time Bruce Weber. He also was the lead recruiter for Jabari Parker and started recruiting Okafor. You might know who this former assistant coach is. His name is Chris Collins. So yes, Coach K is a Hall of Famer, but he has also hired excellent assistant coaches like Mike Brey, Tommy Amaker, Chris Collins, Jeff Capell, Steve Wojciechowski, etc.
As for recruiting and evaluating which players to recruit, that is an enormous part of evaluating coaches and can never be downplayed in evaluating coaches. Recruiting, development of players, developing scouting reports and strategies to beat teams and game day strategies are all critical to a coach's success. Also, hiring strong assistant coaches who can recruit is essential. There was an assistant coach (associate head coach) who was responsible for the midwest region and particularly Illinois and Chicago for Coach K. He successfully recruited a player (Jon Scheyer) from Glenbrook North High School whose coach was the brother of the Illinois coach at the time Bruce Weber. He also was the lead recruiter for Jabari Parker and started recruiting Okafor. You might know who this former assistant coach is. His name is Chris Collins. So yes, Coach K is a Hall of Famer, but he has also hired excellent assistant coaches like Mike Brey, Tommy Amaker, Chris Collins, Jeff Capell, Steve Wojciechowski, etc.
Izzo is a rung down, in my opinion. He hasn't had a run like this in several years, and the program itself has declined (owing, primarily, to the ascendency of Bo.)
The display of efficiency and dominance in the second half by Wisconsin is unlike anything I've seen in those stakes. You know he asked for the three coming out of the break. They hit it, tied the game, and just took over.
Calipari is so obviously the best because, you know, recruiting counts.
The display of efficiency and dominance in the second half by Wisconsin is unlike anything I've seen in those stakes. You know he asked for the three coming out of the break. They hit it, tied the game, and just took over.
Calipari is so obviously the best because, you know, recruiting counts.
Wow, that's a major stretch. I'd says Carmody is up there in terms of being an offensive genius. As a whole body, he is lacking in many areas aside from the recruiting. His teams didn't play much D (Collins showed what you could do with the same to worse talent on that end of the floor), and he was allergic to rebounding. And I wouldn't say he was one to motivate his players like Pitino or even Collins - not if you ask Kevin Coble.
He was a one trick pony - with his offensive system. I'd say outside of that, there wasn't much that could possibly warrant such praise.
I exaggerate to make the point. Recruiting is everything in college hoops. Does Ryan win the last two games without 5* Dekker? Doubtful.
I know, Styre. I wrote what I wrote because people tend to downgrade because "I could coach a top five team with 12 All-Americans." He does way more than recruit All-Americans, of course. (He was in the top five with Marcus Camby and Lou Roe (sp?) and Carmelo Travieso (name?) and Edgar Padilla. (Geez, life was easy then.)
Calipari is spectacular.
Calipari is spectacular.
Calipari just has to be in the top 2, and probably #1.
1. Recruiting counts. It just does.
2. Not only did he recruit a ton of all Americans and 4-5 stars, but he convinced them to play less minutes, play together, play defense, share the ball. All of these are things they probably could have gotten away with not doing in high school.
3. You can't completely discount his achievements at UK this year as "they have a lot of tradition and it's easy to win there." Just look at the last couple of coaches at UK and how much that tradition helped them.
I know he's has violations in the past, and this is likely the source of why so many people discredit his accomplishments. If something pops up at UK, i can revisit this.
But it was absolutely criminal he didn't win coach of the year, all due respect to UVA's Bennett.
1. Recruiting counts. It just does.
2. Not only did he recruit a ton of all Americans and 4-5 stars, but he convinced them to play less minutes, play together, play defense, share the ball. All of these are things they probably could have gotten away with not doing in high school.
3. You can't completely discount his achievements at UK this year as "they have a lot of tradition and it's easy to win there." Just look at the last couple of coaches at UK and how much that tradition helped them.
I know he's has violations in the past, and this is likely the source of why so many people discredit his accomplishments. If something pops up at UK, i can revisit this.
But it was absolutely criminal he didn't win coach of the year, all due respect to UVA's Bennett.
Actually, you should not give Coach K credit for getting the momentum going. Bill Foster did that. But, K did win more games than any other coach.
It goes back even farther than that, and Bill Foster would've killed for the run Coach K has had.
BigTen has best coaches overall- both basketball and football
I would argue that the BigTen has the best overall coaching in both major sports. With the addition of Harbaugh I think it only solidifies the coaching ranks in the BigTen. A UW-MSU big dance final would be awesome and would assure BigTen national championships in both major sports.
I would argue that the BigTen has the best overall coaching in both major sports. With the addition of Harbaugh I think it only solidifies the coaching ranks in the BigTen. A UW-MSU big dance final would be awesome and would assure BigTen national championships in both major sports.
Last season was the one which broke Izzo's streak of making it to the FF with every 4 year classes; didn't take him long to get in starting another streak.
Izzo and Ryan have both down more with less and the reason why Izzo had been losing recruits to the likes of UK, Duke, etc. is due to a no. of factors - (1) MSU being seen as 1-peg beneath the blue-blood programs, (2) not having that national recruiting base, (3) the influence of shoe/sports apparel makers with AAU ball and recruiting and (4) hanky panky.
Ryan just lost out on a 5* center recruit (Stone) from in-state who is heading to UMD; and there is scuttlebutt that UA might have something to do w/ his decision.
The very top blue-chip recruits (those deemed to be lottery picks or at least 1st rounders) if not outright pushed to one school or another, take into consideration the impact what their decision may have in getting one of those prized shoe contracts.
And least of not all, look at Calhoun/UConn, Boeheim/Syracuse, Calipari/UMass/Memphis, UNC academic scandal and even coach K's handling of an alleged rapist on his team.
Proven cheaters or making decisions which most benefit winning.
And the thing is, despite being proven cheater, Calhoun and Boeheim are seen as demi-gods by their respective fan bases and even the lesser coaches who have been caught cheating just end up getting hired as a talking head by ESPN (which makes ESPN's coverage of such scandals a joke - notwithstanding Vitale, ughh, defending Boeheim - until they inevitably get hired by another program).
CFB and CBB - where it pays off to cheat (next to MLB players during the steroid era and Wall St./banking).
Izzo and Ryan have both down more with less and the reason why Izzo had been losing recruits to the likes of UK, Duke, etc. is due to a no. of factors - (1) MSU being seen as 1-peg beneath the blue-blood programs, (2) not having that national recruiting base, (3) the influence of shoe/sports apparel makers with AAU ball and recruiting and (4) hanky panky.
Ryan just lost out on a 5* center recruit (Stone) from in-state who is heading to UMD; and there is scuttlebutt that UA might have something to do w/ his decision.
The very top blue-chip recruits (those deemed to be lottery picks or at least 1st rounders) if not outright pushed to one school or another, take into consideration the impact what their decision may have in getting one of those prized shoe contracts.
And least of not all, look at Calhoun/UConn, Boeheim/Syracuse, Calipari/UMass/Memphis, UNC academic scandal and even coach K's handling of an alleged rapist on his team.
Proven cheaters or making decisions which most benefit winning.
And the thing is, despite being proven cheater, Calhoun and Boeheim are seen as demi-gods by their respective fan bases and even the lesser coaches who have been caught cheating just end up getting hired as a talking head by ESPN (which makes ESPN's coverage of such scandals a joke - notwithstanding Vitale, ughh, defending Boeheim - until they inevitably get hired by another program).
CFB and CBB - where it pays off to cheat (next to MLB players during the steroid era and Wall St./banking).
Mentioning John Calipari and not discussing cheating seems to be missing a big part of his career...let's not forget what happened with Anthony Davis and his commitment to UK....(wiki refresher below)
Davis verbally committed to Kentucky on August 13, 2010, amid "pay for play" rumors, choosing it over his other finalists, which were DePaul, Ohio State, and Syracuse.He had officially visited DePaul and Ohio State.On August 24, 2010, he became the number one rated player in the national class of 2011 at Scout.com.[20] The pay-for-play scandal had played out very publicly in the press. Before Davis committed to Kentucky, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that his father, Anthony Davis, Sr. asked Kentucky for $200,000 for a commitment from his son. The report was initially released on Wednesday August 4, 2010 by Sun-Times reporter Michael O'Brien.Citing "a reliable source," he posted the following text "rumors/sources that have Davis choosing Kentucky are also alleging that the commitment cost $200,000." before it was edited to say "rumors that Davis' commitment is for sale have surfaced since he cut his list of schools down about a month ago." and then removed later that day from the Sun-Times' high school sports website following a threat from a University of Kentucky lawyer.A Lexington, Kentucky law firm sent a letter under the signature of attorney Stephen L. Barker that expressed a "formal demand that you (O'Brien and the Sun-Times) withdraw the publication from any source from which it has been published, and issue an immediate statement that you know of no credible evidence indicating that there is any truth to the 'rumors' referred to in your article."Baker's letter also threatened potential "punitive damages for your malicious and willful actions." Anthony Davis Sr. declined to speak to the Chicago Tribune on August 4 regarding the allegation, although he denied the allegations to the Sun-Times stating "We haven't asked anyone for anything, and no one has offered us anything," on July 30 before the story broke.
The article was reposted on the Sun-Times' website and included in the print edition on Friday August 6 where O'Brien wrote "sources from three separate universities told the Sun-Times that Davis Sr. asked for money in return for his son's commitment, with the amounts ranging from $125,000 to $150,000."The University of Kentucky and the Davis family both threatened to sue the Sun-Times over the article,however, no lawsuits were filed by Kentucky or the Davis family. The Davises and Kentucky claim the restated publication was false. Illinois' one-year statute of limitations on libel cases expired before any lawsuits were filed.
Davis verbally committed to Kentucky on August 13, 2010, amid "pay for play" rumors, choosing it over his other finalists, which were DePaul, Ohio State, and Syracuse.He had officially visited DePaul and Ohio State.On August 24, 2010, he became the number one rated player in the national class of 2011 at Scout.com.[20] The pay-for-play scandal had played out very publicly in the press. Before Davis committed to Kentucky, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that his father, Anthony Davis, Sr. asked Kentucky for $200,000 for a commitment from his son. The report was initially released on Wednesday August 4, 2010 by Sun-Times reporter Michael O'Brien.Citing "a reliable source," he posted the following text "rumors/sources that have Davis choosing Kentucky are also alleging that the commitment cost $200,000." before it was edited to say "rumors that Davis' commitment is for sale have surfaced since he cut his list of schools down about a month ago." and then removed later that day from the Sun-Times' high school sports website following a threat from a University of Kentucky lawyer.A Lexington, Kentucky law firm sent a letter under the signature of attorney Stephen L. Barker that expressed a "formal demand that you (O'Brien and the Sun-Times) withdraw the publication from any source from which it has been published, and issue an immediate statement that you know of no credible evidence indicating that there is any truth to the 'rumors' referred to in your article."Baker's letter also threatened potential "punitive damages for your malicious and willful actions." Anthony Davis Sr. declined to speak to the Chicago Tribune on August 4 regarding the allegation, although he denied the allegations to the Sun-Times stating "We haven't asked anyone for anything, and no one has offered us anything," on July 30 before the story broke.
The article was reposted on the Sun-Times' website and included in the print edition on Friday August 6 where O'Brien wrote "sources from three separate universities told the Sun-Times that Davis Sr. asked for money in return for his son's commitment, with the amounts ranging from $125,000 to $150,000."The University of Kentucky and the Davis family both threatened to sue the Sun-Times over the article,however, no lawsuits were filed by Kentucky or the Davis family. The Davises and Kentucky claim the restated publication was false. Illinois' one-year statute of limitations on libel cases expired before any lawsuits were filed.
I would say that there is a tie for first place with Ryan, Izzo and also Matta is right there as well.
I think Steve Maseillo (sp?) at Iona is a terrific coach. He will be movin up soon, book it.
Also the coach at Northern Iowa, Ben Jacobson. He just keeps on winning. Wouldn't surprise me if he got the Texas job.
I think Steve Maseillo (sp?) at Iona is a terrific coach. He will be movin up soon, book it.
Also the coach at Northern Iowa, Ben Jacobson. He just keeps on winning. Wouldn't surprise me if he got the Texas job.
I think Gregg Marshall gets Texas if he wants it, and though I think he has a pretty good gig at Wichita, that's one of the few jobs for which I'd leave. All the resources in the world, great city and recruiting base, good school, great fan base but one where football hysteria takes some pressure off the basketball program in comparison. Seems like a great job, and it's one that rarely comes open.
ny33, Calipari was also the coach at Memphis, when it was arranged for someone to take the SAT for Chicago's own Derrick Rose. Wonder how many courses Rose actually attended or for that matter how many classes the "one and done" crew at Kentucky take and pass.
I think you could very easily argue that the Final Four contains the top 4 coaches in the game right now - maybe Pittino, Donovon, Jay Wright, Roy Williams, Brey you could argue, but I would go with these 4. If you had an opening now and you could hire any coach in the country and age wasn't an issue, these 4 would be at the top of my list with Izzo top for me.
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