Bill Carmody

[NJCat]

Jim was in a bad situation. Based on my observations and not anything that he has said, he personally didn't get along with Bill. But it was hard to fire a guy who kept winning 19, 20 games. And the coach's contract was up. What to do, what to do. A bold move would have been to dismiss him, but I don't think that Jim had the political capital among the big donors to do that.

Then, the 2012-13 team was 12-8 (3-4 in the conference) when suddenly the entire team started to drop like flies. We lost 11 of 12 games to finish 13-19. It was frustrating knowing that we had a pretty good team and that the AD was just using an injury-riddled season to do what he had wanted to do two years earlier.

So, my personal position is that JIm shouldn't have given Bill any extension. Should have fired him coming off the 2nd NIT bid. But not even OSU could fire Matta until the Bucks missed out on everything, even the NIT.

I think you nailed it perfectly.

 

[NUCat320]

Wow. Just wow.

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

 

[EvanstonCat]

Jim was in a bad situation. Based on my observations and not anything that he has said, he personally didn't get along with Bill. But it was hard to fire a guy who kept winning 19, 20 games. And the coach's contract was up. What to do, what to do. A bold move would have been to dismiss him, but I don't think that Jim had the political capital among the big donors to do that.

Then, the 2012-13 team was 12-8 (3-4 in the conference) when suddenly the entire team started to drop like flies. We lost 11 of 12 games to finish 13-19. It was frustrating knowing that we had a pretty good team and that the AD was just using an injury-riddled season to do what he had wanted to do two years earlier.

So, my personal position is that JIm shouldn't have given Bill any extension. Should have fired him coming off the 2nd NIT bid. But not even OSU could fire Matta until the Bucks missed out on everything, even the NIT.

I don't blame Jim at all. And two extra years of suffering are made up and more with the hiring of CCC.

Jim Phillips is the best AD we've had in my lifetime in my estimation. It's not even close.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

Really makes me want to do something.

 

[mikewebb68]

Did not read the thread, but wanted to add that I am truly sorry to hear about Bill Carmody's passing, safely assuming that a thread this long with this title at the present time could, sadly, only be on that subject.

RIP, Bill, at least you saw us make it to the Dance...

 

[hdhntr1]

Let me ask you this, though. Would you rather have Ara Parseghian, who never went to or won a bowl for NU but had us ranked #1 at one point and beat the crap out of ND every year, or Pat Fitzgerald?

That would be a very tough hypothetical. I think Pat is a better ambassador for NU than Ara was, but everything else...?

But at this point, Ara is really old.

 

[hdhntr1]

For what it's worth, the Princeton offense as played at Northwestern was designed to get two kinds of shots: open three-pointers and open layups.

This is the same philosophy used by the Golden State Warriors, the Houston Rockets, the Boston Celtics, and modern practitioners of basketball.

It only took 30 years for basketball coaches not named Mike D'antoni to understand that the three-pointer is worth 50 percent more points than the two-pointer.

It also took more proficiency at hitting it to make it more valuable.

 

[hdhntr1]

If Barnett had been coaching the 2000 NU football team, our QB would have been John Navarre or Gavin Hoffman. We would not have been running the spread, which means that Anderson would not have run for 2000 yards. It would have been a more conventional team and I doubt that we would have been better with Barney. I would guess same outcome or possibly slightly less. Defense would have been way better, offense way worse.

There likely would have been other players that we would have had and transferred out when Barnett left and Walker came in. Look I am glad for the 2000 championship but it was sort of a fluke. 6-2 would not have won most years. It was a 3 way tie. We did not play OSU pr PSU and we had several pull it out of the a** victories including the Michigan finish, WIS OT and MN.

 

[hdhntr1]

Walker won a championship with Barnett's recruits. He didn't do a whole lot with his own.

Actually, it's unfair to lump Walker in with Carmody in my opinion. Walker was hard nosed and a tough coach. Our offenses truly were at their best under him (though our defences were putrid). If Wheeler hadn't tragically passed away, who knows what Walker might have accomplished.

Fitz has brought our depth to another level and we have won 10 games twice under him and finished the season ranked in the top 20. In addition, the program continues to progress and is at it's best health ever since he's been here. This said, you're right. For all of Fitz's talk about winning championships, we have none. Not even a divisional title. Personally, I'm beginning to lose my patience. Hope and believe that this is the year.

Then why do you continue to hold up Walker's "championship" as something Fitz has not achieved? I am happy to have experienced Walker's championship but it was pretty much of a fluke. Barnett's recruits, a 6-2 record winning a championship (3 way tie) which would have won very few years, Pretty rare and a whole lot of breaks going our way with not playing OSU or PSU and unbelievable finishes vs Mich, MN and WIS. Fitz equaled that 6-2 mark plus has had a couple 10 win seasons and won bowl games. While it did not have "Big Champion" next to it, at at least at the same level.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Then why do you continue to hold up Walker's "championship" as something Fitz has not achieved? I am happy to have experienced Walker's championship but it was pretty much of a fluke. Barnett's recruits, a 6-2 record winning a championship (3 way tie) which would have won very few years, Pretty rare and a whole lot of breaks going our way with not playing OSU or PSU and unbelievable finishes vs Mich, MN and WIS. Fitz equaled that 6-2 mark plus has had a couple 10 win seasons and won bowl games. While it did not have "Big Champion" next to it, at at least at the same level.

Hmm do you know the last time that we won a Big Ten football title with OSU on our schedule?

In some ways 1995 was a fluke by those unbelievable finish standards that you've set.

 

[hdhntr1]

Hmm do you know the last time that we won a Big Ten football title with OSU on our schedule?

In some ways 1995 was a fluke by those unbelievable finish standards that you've set.

True but in 95 we were 8-0 in the Big Ten and 10 wins overall and in 96 7-1, both pretty solid and no fluke. But 2000 6-2 in three way tie with no one else better than 4-4. Big 10 Champ ending the season unranked. One of the weakest claims to a BIG Championship in a long long time. Just tired of having that Big Championship used to judge current program success. The Fitz program has at least equaled that accomplishment. True he has not yet reached 95 status but...And in fact, what was accomplished in 2000 is now much more difficult. No three way ties for example.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

In some ways 1995 was a fluke by those unbelievable finish standards that you've set.

C'mon. An undefeated conference season that wins you a conference championship is not a fluke by ANY standards...

 

[YesterdaysCat]

C'mon. An undefeated conference season that wins you a conference championship is not a fluke by ANY standards...

What a dumb comment. I was talking about the other poster's standards.

You're always so quick to pick a fight, but you don't bother to read context and you run away from a fight when you've lost.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

What a dumb comment. I was talking about the other poster's standards.

You're always so quick to pick a fight, but you don't bother to read context and you run away from a fight when you've lost.

I did read his standards. And undefeated is a far cry from 6-2

 

[hdhntr1]

I did read his standards. And undefeated is a far cry from 6-2

Also better than 3 way tie

 

[hdhntr1]

Hmm do you know the last time that we won a Big Ten football title with OSU on our schedule?

In some ways 1995 was a fluke by those unbelievable finish standards that you've set.

6-2makes it a fluke. 3 way tie to get the. title Half the victories sort of pulling it out of... It was the combination of all of that having to happen to get us the championship that made it a fluke. There is always some luck involved but the amount it took that year just to get to 6-2 plus that being enough for a championship for one of the only times... That combination makes it great that we won a championship but not a real indication that the team was any better than many of the teams fielded since Fitz took over. I just get tired as it being used as justification to belittle the status of the current coaching.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Then why do you continue to hold up Walker's "championship" as something Fitz has not achieved? I am happy to have experienced Walker's championship but it was pretty much of a fluke. Barnett's recruits, a 6-2 record winning a championship (3 way tie) which would have won very few years, Pretty rare and a whole lot of breaks going our way with not playing OSU or PSU and unbelievable finishes vs Mich, MN and WIS. Fitz equaled that 6-2 mark plus has had a couple 10 win seasons and won bowl games. While it did not have "Big Champion" next to it, at at least at the same level.

I don't hold up Walker's championship and agree that there is an asterisk against it. I hold the general notion of failing to win any championships whatsoever against Fitz. 13 years and not one ring. Certainly not the pace we had at one point in winning 3 titles in 6 years.

If you want to look at the bar, I think it's set by Bucky. They were almost bad as us pre-Alvarez and don't really recruit well above our capability. We should be as competitive and winning titles as often as they do today.

 

[NJCat]

I hold the general notion of failing to win any championships whatsoever against Fitz. 13 years and not one ring.

You are already writing off 2017 and 2018? Cause my man Fitz has only coached 11 seasons so far.....

Perhaps the number 13 is stuck in your craw for some other reason......

 

[YesterdaysCat]

You are already writing off 2017 and 2018? Cause my man Fitz has only coached 11 seasons so far.....

Perhaps the number 13 is stuck in your craw for some other reason......

He went to summer camp with Jason Voorhees.

 

[hdhntr1]

I don't hold up Walker's championship and agree that there is an asterisk against it. I hold the general notion of failing to win any championships whatsoever against Fitz. 13 years and not one ring. Certainly not the pace we had at one point in winning 3 titles in 6 years.

If you want to look at the bar, I think it's set by Bucky. They were almost bad as us pre-Alvarez and don't really recruit well above our capability. We should be as competitive and winning titles as often as they do today.

Didn't you just hold up that championship? And I think this is only Fitz's 11th year. And while you used NCAA berth as the level for BB (which require just over a 0.500 BIG record and just finishing in the top half of the BIG to accomplish (a feat that Fitz and company have succeeded in about half of his seasons as HC) But for FB you are requiring a championship? Pretty unequal set of standards.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Didn't you just hold up that championship? And I think this is only Fitz's 11th year. And while you used NCAA berth as the level for BB (which require just over a 0.500 BIG record and just finishing in the top half of the BIG to accomplish (a feat that Fitz and company have succeeded in about half of his seasons as HC) But for FB you are requiring a championship? Pretty unequal set of standards.

A .500 B1G record will not get you into the Dance. 10 wins is the standard if I'm not mistaken, 9 wins doesn't even get you in necessarily. It's all about getting to the next level. FB is at a higher standard because we have been there, done that. CCC needs to go beyond his accomplishments from yesteryear. A Final 4 and a B1G title most certainly needs to be in our sights now. Making the NCAAs isn't enough. If that's all we do for the next 10 years, then we may need to consider a change.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

A Final 4 and a B1G title most certainly needs to be in our sights now. Making the NCAAs isn't enough. If that's all we do for the next 10 years, then we may need to consider a change.

I'm glad Jim Phillips is NU's AD.

This standard is silly and completely lacks perspective in regards to the NCAA tournament.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

A .500 B1G record will not get you into the Dance. 10 wins is the standard if I'm not mistaken, 9 wins doesn't even get you in necessarily. It's all about getting to the next level. FB is at a higher standard because we have been there, done that. CCC needs to go beyond his accomplishments from yesteryear. A Final 4 and a B1G title most certainly needs to be in our sights now. Making the NCAAs isn't enough. If that's all we do for the next 10 years, then we may need to consider a change.

I'm VERY disappointed. I thought you were all about Championships! This Final Four crap isn't enough. If we're not cutting down the nets and hoisting a trophy in 4 years, I expect you, E Cat, to donate your life savings -- which should be substantial given you're bilingual (well, sort of, ESL and all!) and there's never been a bigger demand for bilingual workers in Asia -- so we can coax Billy Donovan back from the NBA to Evanston.

He will accept nothing less than TITLES, people. Gator Bowl and Pinstripe Bowl champs isn't enough for E Cat. He will sell his kidney for a playoff bid. He will sell his.... okay, you get the point.

 

[hdhntr1]

A .500 B1G record will not get you into the Dance. 10 wins is the standard if I'm not mistaken, 9 wins doesn't even get you in necessarily. It's all about getting to the next level. FB is at a higher standard because we have been there, done that. CCC needs to go beyond his accomplishments from yesteryear. A Final 4 and a B1G title most certainly needs to be in our sights now. Making the NCAAs isn't enough. If that's all we do for the next 10 years, then we may need to consider a change.

aIn BB, up until recently, a 500 big record often got a team in. Secondly, I did not say 500. Fitz teams have EXCEEDED 500 5 times and a 5-3 record would be equiv of 10-6 which gets one in even by your standards and 2015 record of 6-2 would be the equiv of 12 wins. Pretty high standards. Plus today with conference championship it is much tougher to get title (when only one team can claim the title) than when we did. Just saying that if the standard for success is getting to the dance in BB and would appear likely to remain the standard, is it right to demand a different and significantly higher standard for FB to determine if a program is successful?

 

[EvanstonCat]

I'm VERY disappointed. I thought you were all about Championships! This Final Four crap isn't enough. If we're not cutting down the nets and hoisting a trophy in 4 years, I expect you, E Cat, to donate your life savings -- which should be substantial given you're bilingual (well, sort of, ESL and all!) and there's never been a bigger demand for bilingual workers in Asia -- so we can coax Billy Donovan back from the NBA to Evanston.

He will accept nothing less than TITLES, people. Gator Bowl and Pinstripe Bowl champs isn't enough for E Cat. He will sell his kidney for a playoff bid. He will sell his.... okay, you get the point.

That was entirely nonsensical.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

aIn BB, up until recently, a 500 big record often got a team in. Secondly, I did not say 500. Fitz teams have EXCEEDED 500 5 times and a 5-3 record would be equiv of 10-6 which gets one in even by your standards and 2015 record of 6-2 would be the equiv of 12 wins. Pretty high standards. Plus today with conference championship it is much tougher to get title (when only one team can claim the title) than when we did. Just saying that if the standard for success is getting to the dance in BB and would appear likely to remain the standard, is it right to demand a different and significantly higher standard for FB to determine if a program is successful?

He wants shiny trophies! Why can't you understand what's important in college athletics, dammit.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

That was entirely nonsensical.

Don't sell your clothes for a shiny trophy, man.