Horten-Tucker gets Fla St and MSU offers

[NUCat320]

Coaching absolutely plays a role. But as somebody noted above, the great programs will ultimately get great coaches because they have great resources: facilities, budget, deep pocketed donors, big fan bases and history. They might have a few down years with the wrong coach (North Carolina with Matt Doherty) but eventually they will make the home run hire that restores them to their rightful place in the universe. Similarly a lower tier program might find a great coach and rise to a higher level for awhile (Marquette and Al Mc Guire) but they eventually sink back to their normal standing after that coach leaves.

But the key is that great is not a birthright. All the funding in the world couldn't make Tom Crean (without Dwyane Wade) a winner. Bill Guthridge and Matt Doherty can toil in mediocrity because they're an old grump and a haircut, whereas Roy Williams is a hall of farmer.

Urban Meyer will win anywhere. Chris Petersen has won anywhere. Matt Doherty could only win when the stars were aligned. McDermott was a hero at Northern Iowa before he established a top program at Iowa State.

Bill Snyder did the impossible at K-State because Bill Snyder is a genius (and perhaps other things).

My examples are football because I know football better.

 

[Figrating]

We haven't won, but I'm speaking to the trajectory. I'm convinced Collins will get us to the level he became intimately familiar with in his 18 years at Duke. It's only a matter of time.

Fitz? He's had 10 years. And we are doing ok, but I'm not so sure that he'll achieve that Collins projects to have - in hoops, everything is tracking so far to the Coach K plan and trajectory that Duke saw under his mentor, and that trajectory is steeper than what we've seen in football in the last decade. Of course this is speculation, but if the football and basketball programs were stocks, I'd be much higher on hoops right now. Football is a good buy, but I just don't see the same upside at this time. More a reflection of how bullish I'm on Collins and hoops right now, though Fitz does have his facilities coming, and this could be a breakthrough year, so things may change for me by the end of the season. How we end up at the end of the year will be like an earnings report and could very well change the stock's rating.

NU's football facilities have been a burden on recruiting in the past. In the near future they are going to be about the best in the conference and both the spectacular buildings and the practice field have spectacular lake views. The Taj will awe anyone who sees it. The future is brighter for NU football recruiting. Fitz will suddenly close more of the best recruits. Bet the house.

 

[NJCat]

The Taj will awe anyone who sees it. The future is brighter for NU football recruiting. Fitz will suddenly close more of the best recruits. Bet the house.

Time will tell. I truly hope you are right. The Taj is gonna be awesome, we'll see how important facilities are to the decision of where to matriculate for top tier players.....

 

[Deeringfish]

NU's football facilities have been a burden on recruiting in the past. In the near future they are going to be about the best in the conference and both the spectacular buildings and the practice field have spectacular lake views. The Taj will awe anyone who sees it. The future is brighter for NU football recruiting. Fitz will suddenly close more of the best recruits. Bet the house.

I remember hearing about how far behind our facilities were when I was a kid in the 60's so, you may be right.

 

[EvanstonCat]

NU's football facilities have been a burden on recruiting in the past. In the near future they are going to be about the best in the conference and both the spectacular buildings and the practice field have spectacular lake views. The Taj will awe anyone who sees it. The future is brighter for NU football recruiting. Fitz will suddenly close more of the best recruits. Bet the house.

I hope that is the case. He certainly has no more excuses now.

 

[IdahoAlum]

The facilities have definitely been a drag. But so too are academics (smaller recruit pool and fewer players willing to invest the effort in academics), game day atmosphere (especially in football) and campus life. NU will always be an outlier for those reasons.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The facilities have definitely been a drag. But so too are academics (smaller recruit pool and fewer players willing to invest the effort in academics), game day atmosphere (especially in football) and campus life. NU will always be an outlier for those reasons.

BS.

Gameday atmosphere when we win is awesome. See Gameday in Evanston. Campus life is fine - ever been to South Bend? Academics? Stanford crushes that baloney excuse.

Barnett proved you could recruit at an elite level here (he recruited the core of 3 B1G championship teams, and not surprisingly, they were ranked higher than anything we have seen since. Let's cut it with the excuses and just get it done. Fitz has his facilities now. No more excuses.

 

[IdahoAlum]

BS.

Gameday atmosphere when we win is awesome. See Gameday in Evanston. Campus life is fine - ever been to South Bend? Academics? Stanford crushes that baloney excuse.

Barnett proved you could recruit at an elite level here (he recruited the core of 3 B1G championship teams, and not surprisingly, they were ranked higher than anything we have seen since. Let's cut it with the excuses and just get it done. Fitz has his facilities now. No more excuses.

Give me call next time we put 80,000 fans at Ryan Field.

 

[NJCat]

Give me call next time we put 80,000 fans at Ryan Field.

How about when we put 6,800 in WRA?

 

[EvanstonCat]

Give me call next time we put 80,000 fans at Ryan Field.

We've heard the same excuses before in hoops. Gary Barnett was able to recruit with worse facilities, and Stanford's stadium sits 50K. Give me a break.

 

[NJCat]

Stanford's stadium sits 50K. Give me a break.

SU's stadium is also brand spanking new.

 

[IdahoAlum]

I know nothing anyone says will impact your opinion on this issue, E-Cat, and that's fine. Let me just say that I'm equally convinced that NU's situation in the BIG, and indeed in the Power 5, is unique. I don't think any other P5 school has academic standards as high and that remains a factor in limiting the pool of available recruits. And you can't convince me that there aren't a lot of high school football players who are turned on by crowds of 80,000 or more fans, or literally an entire state (Ohio State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, etc.) that shuts down for college football on a Saturday. The difference in game day atmosphere between NU and the football factories is demonstrable. I get that you think NU should be the "Stanford of the Midwest," and I'm fine with those aspirations. But I'm also fine with what NU has built so far -- a consistently competitive program that goes to bowl games, graduates an extremely high percentage of its athletes and largely (not entirely, but largely) stays out of trouble. I'd be happy with a similar development in basketball. I know you, E-Cat, believe the bar should be set higher, and that is certainly your prerogative.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I know nothing anyone says will impact your opinion on this issue, E-Cat, and that's fine. Let me just say that I'm equally convinced that NU's situation in the BIG, and indeed in the Power 5, is unique. I don't think any other P5 school has academic standards as high and that remains a factor in limiting the pool of available recruits. And you can't convince me that there aren't a lot of high school football players who are turned on by crowds of 80,000 or more fans, or literally an entire state (Ohio State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, etc.) that shuts down for college football on a Saturday. The difference in game day atmosphere between NU and the football factories is demonstrable. I get that you think NU should be the "Stanford of the Midwest," and I'm fine with those aspirations. But I'm also fine with what NU has built so far -- a consistently competitive program that goes to bowl games, graduates an extremely high percentage of its athletes and largely (not entirely, but largely) stays out of trouble. I'd be happy with a similar development in basketball. I know you, E-Cat, believe the bar should be set higher, and that is certainly your prerogative.

I don't disagree that NU won't be for everyone and that we can go after anything close to everyone that Ohio State or Alabama are going after. All I'm saying is there a lot of players we do not go after that perhaps we should. Again, look at Stanford (academic restrictions, 50K stadium) and their 4 and 5 star recruits. We should be tapping into that pool a lot more than we do and we should be setting our aspirations to at least the level that they have attained in recruiting wins as well as wins on the field.

 

[docrugby1]

Give me call next time we put 80,000 fans at Ryan Field.

I will bet you right now,with the excitement about NU 2017, that there will be between 45 and 50,000 at the Nevada game. I just have a feeling that there will be a lot of excitement in Evanston this year

 

[Deeringfish]

I will bet you right now,with the excitement about NU 2017, that there will be between 45 and 50,000 at the Nevada game. I just have a feeling that there will be a lot of excitement in Evanston this year

Doc, your not one that is usually given to bold hyperbole so I'm going to take that prediction pretty seriously. It is exciting to think you feel that way. Hope you are right. Go Cats!!

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

We've heard the same excuses before in hoops. Gary Barnett was able to recruit with worse facilities, and Stanford's stadium sits 50K. Give me a break.

Easy to comment about facilities and game day experience when you aren't there every week. To compare Stanfords stadium to Ryan is ludicrous. The ONLY thing that is remotely close is size. Ryan is a dump compared to Stanford which has one of the nicest stadiums of this size in the country. Game day atmosphere is improving a lot but comparing NU following to most rabid large state schools shows a clear lack of understanding. Let me help, Nebby, Iowa, Whisky, PSU, MSU fill much larger stadiums and the towns shut down for a game. I wouldn't even mention the powerhouses.

Yes, win and the fans come out, but at NU lose and they don't. I get sick of sitting at mid field with a host of Minny fans sitting in the section! The final piece for facilities is Ryan's total renovation, not the fake on the lake. Just another chance for you to take your cheap shots at Fitz and pump up Barney.

 

[willycat]

Time will tell. I truly hope you are right. The Taj is gonna be awesome, we'll see how important facilities are to the decision of where to matriculate for top tier players.....

Just think if Barnett had that available to him. Just kidding, sort of.

 

[Gladeskat]

I will bet you right now,with the excitement about NU 2017, that there will be between 45 and 50,000 at the Nevada game. I just have a feeling that there will be a lot of excitement in Evanston this year

Doubt the attendance figure. Students won't be on campus yet, and that will cost us 2-3K fans. I can't remember the last time NU had close to a sellout for a mid-major in early September.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I don't disagree that NU won't be for everyone and that we can go after anything close to everyone that Ohio State or Alabama are going after. All I'm saying is there a lot of players we do not go after that perhaps we should. Again, look at Stanford (academic restrictions, 50K stadium) and their 4 and 5 star recruits. We should be tapping into that pool a lot more than we do and we should be setting our aspirations to at least the level that they have attained in recruiting wins as well as wins on the field.

And what do you know about the aspirations of the programs/coaches at NU?

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

I will bet you right now,with the excitement about NU 2017, that there will be between 45 and 50,000 at the Nevada game. I just have a feeling that there will be a lot of excitement in Evanston this year

I'm optimistic as well. I'm anticipating a lot of buzz come September. Hopefully those early season crowds will surprise. I'm also looking forward to a strong contingent of NU fans on the road at Duke. Be sure to secure your seats in FloridAlum's Purple block...we're going to have a great time in Durham!

 

[NJCat]

Doubt the attendance figure. Students won't be on campus yet, and that will cost us 2-3K fans. I can't remember the last time NU had close to a sellout for a mid-major in early September.

Sarcasm meter on the fritz today?

FWIW, NU played to 87% capacity in their loss to NIU on 9/6/14. Attendance was 41,139:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/boxscore?id=22578

 

[docrugby1]

Doubt the attendance figure. Students won't be on campus yet, and that will cost us 2-3K fans. I can't remember the last time NU had close to a sellout for a mid-major in early September.

I will bet anyone a beer that my estimate holds true

 

[EvanstonCat]

And what do you know about the aspirations of the programs/coaches at NU?

Not a lot to be honest. But, I do see the results.

 

[NJCat]

I will bet anyone a beer that my estimate holds true

And I thought you were kidding. No way NU cracks 40,000 on Labor Day weekend. The only reason the NIU game did was because of NIU fans traveling. Nevada will have zero people at the game. Make mine a Stone Delicious (gluten free) IPA.

 

[willycat]

And I thought you were kidding. No way NU cracks 40,000 on Labor Day weekend. The only reason the NIU game did was because of NIU fans traveling. Nevada will have zero people at the game. Make mine a Stone Delicious (gluten free) IPA.

First NIU fans don't travel well, heck they have trouble drawing 20,000 to their home games. Would bet that there were less then 10,000 at that game. My guess for the Nevada game is somewhere in the mid 30's.

 

[NJCat]

First NIU fans don't travel well, heck they have trouble drawing 20,000 to their home games. Would bet that there were less then 10,000 at that game. My guess for the Nevada game is somewhere in the mid 30's.

I agree NIU people don't travel well, but if you add say 6,000 NIU fans to the typical 35,000 NU draws for September OOC games you get.....41,000 and change. Duh.

 

[hdhntr1]

No quibbles with most of IdahoAlum's choices. But I wouldn't put Oregon in basketball's second tier. Very good lately - like Butler and Gonzaga - but not consistently a power over the long run. Maybe substitute Louisville in the second tier as a more perenniel power.

Gonzaga might be tier two right now but Butler is probably tier 3 after constantly having to replace coaches looking for BBD. We have to get to tier 3 before we can aspire to tier 2

 

[hdhntr1]

"I'm not sure I agree 100% with your detective work Lou." (Fargo Movie)

When you are the one school in a conference of 14 schools that will admit less than 50% of the players on the other teams, it's not all about the coach.

I think it is closer to 25-30% than it is to 50%. And it is still mostly about the HC. All you have to do is look at who is coming today that would not have looked at us in years past.. Also player development is about the coaching

 

[hdhntr1]

Andgi ve

SU's stadium is also brand spanking new.

Given a choice between SU and NU, not sure why anyone other than from midwest would chose NU

 

[hdhntr1]

Doubt the attendance figure. Students won't be on campus yet, and that will cost us 2-3K fans. I can't remember the last time NU had close to a sellout for a mid-major in early September.

They have done well with NIU

 

[docrugby1]

And I thought you were kidding. No way NU cracks 40,000 on Labor Day weekend. The only reason the NIU game did was because of NIU fans traveling. Nevada will have zero people at the game. Make mine a Stone Delicious (gluten free) IPA.

Just tell me what beer you like. I'll take a draught Smithwicks or a Yuengling. I will even buy lunch if my numbers are wrong. Everybody who wants in just list your beer so I know what to bring if I am wrong

 

[combes]

Let us not forget that Mark Smith, who grew up a big MSU fan, was also "blessed" of something along those lines to get an offer from MSU. He went up there for an official visit. Chose the closer school in Champaign. Yes, it was not NU in the end, but MSU is not an instant loss just because they offer. Even schools like Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas do t automatically land kids once they offer. We have to be up for the competition.

For the Cats to remain on the desired trajectory, we need to face off against the best, both on the court and in recruiting battles. Can't shy away from the heat. As Ecat put it, we can't fall into Northwestern Syndrome, this almost victim mentality where we don't expect to be capable of competing with the best. I'm sure the coaches don't see it that way, nor do I believe the players feel that way. We, the fans, need to come around as well. Expect Victory! We believed once, need to do so again.

Smith grew up an Illinois fan. Other than that your theory is right on.

 

[NU Houston]

Given a choice between SU and NU, not sure why anyone other than from midwest would chose NU

Stanford is boring. It's a sprawling, suburban campus that's nearly 40 miles from San Francisco. How do you get around there if you don't have a car?

Northwestern has the beautiful setting right on the lake, and it's a quick El ride into a great city. Of course the winters are miserable, but at least you get the change of seasons, unlike in the Bay Area.

 

[NJCat]

Of course the winters are miserable,

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how'd you like the play?

 

[NU Houston]

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how'd you like the play?

I grew up in Houston and before attending NU had never really experienced the full four seasons. I still remember being amazed at the myriad of colors in fall and the peaceful and beautiful scene after a snowfall in winter. I'm glad I spent those four years in Evanston instead of in California or Texas, but now that I'm older, I'm also glad I can play golf in January and don't have to layer up every time I go outside.