The Big Ten Needs Cal and Stanford

[jne381]

For the very soul of the conference and college football.

Neither school would probably add any cash to the pockets of the other Big Ten programs, and they might just even end up being a net loss.

As a Northwestern fan, having Stanford in the conference would not be as advantageous as having them on the outside looking in from a less prominent conference.

Regardless of those points, do we want to see these great institutions with amazing histories relegated to the likes of the Mountain West or the Big 12? It would be a shame. Who cares if they are not great football programs currently. There is something inherent about college athletics that demands their inclusion.

Cal and Stanford are not Iowa State and Kansas. They posses something that makes them feel like they belong in the Big Ten. I can't really articulate what it is, but I know it is there.

Lastly, I feel like if the Big Ten turns its back on Cal and Stanford, I think it is only a matter of time before Northwestern and some other current Big Ten schools see themselves on the outside looking in.

 

[its_the_sauce]

Waiting for Albrecht to chime in with his thoughts on Cal's situation.

 

[phatcat]

I have rather enjoyed our special status in the B1G, and I find Stanford annoying ("why can't you be more like your brother?!?)

 

[eastbaycat99]

Since Cal is my second team (as I have posted here over the years, I am a longtime Cal STH), having Cal and Stanford join the B1G would be more attractive than other alternatives mentioned. However, both as the dad of an Oregon alum and as a Cal fan, it is hard to express how awful the B1G’s poaching of the LA schools is, and what it means for college sports.
The PAC 8 schools were in many ways a near perfect conference configuration. Each team has a natural rival, they are all in the same time zone, they have played each other for a zillion years, and with the exception of Pullman, each university is in a place that is a great destination for a road-trip to see your team play. The other thing this particular group of schools (again with the exception of WSU) brought was excellence in non-revenue and women’s sports. As a B1G fan in the years I lived in the Chicago area, I can remember wrestling as the one attractive non-revenue sport; while support for women’s sports has improved in the quarter century since I relocated, it was miles ahead on the west coast when I got here and continues to be a very high priority for the member schools. I really valued that commitment since my daughter grew to be an outstanding multi-sport athlete, and going to Cal women’s games in various sports helped her build enthusiasm for competing.
The PAC conference, outside of football, has been exemplary in its development of true student athletes. In football and basketball, the regional aspect of the conference has been great. I really believe, unfortunately, that for the LA schools non-revenue sport athletes the travel requirements will be an incredible burden, and the loss of two flagship schools will weaken the programs in the other schools. For football and men’s basketball, replacing two longtime high profile rivals with, say SDSU and Boise State, will help kill the joy of trips to memorial stadium. Even more extreme, if Cal and Stanford joined the Big 12, it would be the worst of all worlds. Personally, I would benefit from the Bay Area schools joining the B1G in that I would see the Cats more often, but that personal gain in no way makes up for the damage this move is going to do to college sports on the West Coast.

 

[pawildcat]

Since Cal is my second team (as I have posted here over the years, I am a longtime Cal STH), having Cal and Stanford join the B1G would be more attractive than other alternatives mentioned. However, both as the dad of an Oregon alum and as a Cal fan, it is hard to express how awful the B1G’s poaching of the LA schools is, and what it means for college sports.
The PAC 8 schools were in many ways a near perfect conference configuration. Each team has a natural rival, they are all in the same time zone, they have played each other for a zillion years, and with the exception of Pullman, each university is in a place that is a great destination for a road-trip to see your team play. The other thing this particular group of schools (again with the exception of WSU) brought was excellence in non-revenue and women’s sports. As a B1G fan in the years I lived in the Chicago area, I can remember wrestling as the one attractive non-revenue sport; while support for women’s sports has improved in the quarter century since I relocated, it was miles ahead on the west coast when I got here and continues to be a very high priority for the member schools. I really valued that commitment since my daughter grew to be an outstanding multi-sport athlete, and going to Cal women’s games in various sports helped her build enthusiasm for competing.
The PAC conference, outside of football, has been exemplary in its development of true student athletes. In football and basketball, the regional aspect of the conference has been great. I really believe, unfortunately, that for the LA schools non-revenue sport athletes the travel requirements will be an incredible burden, and the loss of two flagship schools will weaken the programs in the other schools. For football and men’s basketball, replacing two longtime high profile rivals with, say SDSU and Boise State, will help kill the joy of trips to memorial stadium. Even more extreme, if Cal and Stanford joined the Big 12, it would be the worst of all worlds. Personally, I would benefit from the Bay Area schools joining the B1G in that I would see the Cats more often, but that personal gain in no way makes up for the damage this move is going to do to college sports on the West Coast.

All reports I've read indicate that USC and UCLA approached the B1G about joining the conference, not the other way around, so I guess it's "poaching" in the sense that they accepted the two schools, but as one B1G official said they would have been morons not to look at it. A B1G rejection probably would have had them looking at the SEC.

I'm not crazy about the current college situation, but that train left the station a long time ago. The money sports are driving expansion and will likely continue to do so. I agree with you about the non-revenue sports, and the B1G will probably have to pick up a couple more Western teams to make this viable in the long run. And all this is coming in the midst of rising energy costs and airline debacles.

 

[willycat]

For the very soul of the conference and college football.

Neither school would probably add any cash to the pockets of the other Big Ten programs, and they might just even end up being a net loss.

As a Northwestern fan, having Stanford in the conference would not be as advantageous as having them on the outside looking in from a less prominent conference.

Regardless of those points, do we want to see these great institutions with amazing histories relegated to the likes of the Mountain West or the Big 12. It would be a shame Who cares if they are not great football programs currently. There is something inherent about college athletics that demands their inclusion.

Cal and Stanford are not Iowa State and Kansas. They posses something that makes them feel like they belong in the Big Ten. I can't really articulate what it is, but I know it is there.

Lastly, I feel like if the Big Ten turns its back on Cal and Stanford, I think it is only a matter of time before Northwestern and some other current Big Ten school see themselves on the outside looking in.

The conference can only handle so many schools and what makes you think NU will be on the outside? They won't. A founding member!

 

[rmndcat]

Since Cal is my second team (as I have posted here over the years, I am a longtime Cal STH), having Cal and Stanford join the B1G would be more attractive than other alternatives mentioned. However, both as the dad of an Oregon alum and as a Cal fan, it is hard to express how awful the B1G’s poaching of the LA schools is, and what it means for college sports.
The PAC 8 schools were in many ways a near perfect conference configuration. Each team has a natural rival, they are all in the same time zone, they have played each other for a zillion years, and with the exception of Pullman, each university is in a place that is a great destination for a road-trip to see your team play. The other thing this particular group of schools (again with the exception of WSU) brought was excellence in non-revenue and women’s sports. As a B1G fan in the years I lived in the Chicago area, I can remember wrestling as the one attractive non-revenue sport; while support for women’s sports has improved in the quarter century since I relocated, it was miles ahead on the west coast when I got here and continues to be a very high priority for the member schools. I really valued that commitment since my daughter grew to be an outstanding multi-sport athlete, and going to Cal women’s games in various sports helped her build enthusiasm for competing.
The PAC conference, outside of football, has been exemplary in its development of true student athletes. In football and basketball, the regional aspect of the conference has been great. I really believe, unfortunately, that for the LA schools non-revenue sport athletes the travel requirements will be an incredible burden, and the loss of two flagship schools will weaken the programs in the other schools. For football and men’s basketball, replacing two longtime high profile rivals with, say SDSU and Boise State, will help kill the joy of trips to memorial stadium. Even more extreme, if Cal and Stanford joined the Big 12, it would be the worst of all worlds. Personally, I would benefit from the Bay Area schools joining the B1G in that I would see the Cats more often, but that personal gain in no way makes up for the damage this move is going to do to college sports on the West Coast.

After the initial excitement about seeing the Cats in SoCal, I find myself thinking more along these lines. Growing up in Pac 8 territory and with family ties to Stanford, OSU (the Corvallis one) and Wazzu, it will be a loss if/when the rest of the conference deconstructs.

 

[eastbaycat99]

All reports I've read indicate that USC and UCLA approached the B1G about joining the conference, not the other way around, so I guess it's "poaching" in the sense that they accepted the two schools, but as one B1G official said they would have been morons not to look at it.

She walked up to me and asked me if I wanted a good time, officer.

The B1G had just entered into its “alliance” agreement with the PAC and ACC. I agree that in the short run, I.e. the next TV revenue agreement negotiation coming up, this works to the B1G’s advantage. Strategically, though, it destructively upsets college sports in many ways, and by sabotaging the “alliance”, kills one of the last ways to salvage college sports in the era of NIL, the portal, and huge revenue television contracts.

 

[phatcat]

After the initial excitement about seeing the Cats in SoCal, I find myself thinking more along these lines. Growing up in Pac 8 territory and with family ties to Stanford, OSU (the Corvallis one) and Wazzu, it will be a loss if/when the rest of the conference deconstructs.

Don't worry, I'm sure we will still be stuck with inane non-con games, meaning we will be on the West Coast like once every 10 years

 

[HappyNUyear]

Should ND decide to join the B1G, watch for Washington, Oregon and Stanford. That would make 20 Teams

 

[HappyNUyear]

She walked up to me and asked me if I wanted a good time, officer.

The B1G had just entered into its “alliance” agreement with the PAC and ACC. I agree that in the short run, I.e. the next TV revenue agreement negotiation coming up, this works to the B1G’s advantage. Strategically, though, it destructively upsets college sports in many ways, and by sabotaging the “alliance”, kills one of the last ways to salvage college sports in the era of NIL, the portal, and huge revenue television contracts.

That so called alliance was a nothing alliance with zero benefit

 

[usopen30]

Since Cal is my second team (as I have posted here over the years, I am a longtime Cal STH), having Cal and Stanford join the B1G would be more attractive than other alternatives mentioned. However, both as the dad of an Oregon alum and as a Cal fan, it is hard to express how awful the B1G’s poaching of the LA schools is, and what it means for college sports.
The PAC 8 schools were in many ways a near perfect conference configuration. Each team has a natural rival, they are all in the same time zone, they have played each other for a zillion years, and with the exception of Pullman, each university is in a place that is a great destination for a road-trip to see your team play. The other thing this particular group of schools (again with the exception of WSU) brought was excellence in non-revenue and women’s sports. As a B1G fan in the years I lived in the Chicago area, I can remember wrestling as the one attractive non-revenue sport; while support for women’s sports has improved in the quarter century since I relocated, it was miles ahead on the west coast when I got here and continues to be a very high priority for the member schools. I really valued that commitment since my daughter grew to be an outstanding multi-sport athlete, and going to Cal women’s games in various sports helped her build enthusiasm for competing.
The PAC conference, outside of football, has been exemplary in its development of true student athletes. In football and basketball, the regional aspect of the conference has been great. I really believe, unfortunately, that for the LA schools non-revenue sport athletes the travel requirements will be an incredible burden, and the loss of two flagship schools will weaken the programs in the other schools. For football and men’s basketball, replacing two longtime high profile rivals with, say SDSU and Boise State, will help kill the joy of trips to memorial stadium. Even more extreme, if Cal and Stanford joined the Big 12, it would be the worst of all worlds. Personally, I would benefit from the Bay Area schools joining the B1G in that I would see the Cats more often, but that personal gain in no way makes up for the damage this move is going to do to college sports on the West Coast.

Agree. I also go to Cal games and got excellent tickets to the '95 Rose Bowl per the Pac 10 conference allotment. What sucks about USC joining the BIG in two years is that we won't have a rematch of the Rose Bowl Game that I'm sure NU would have won had Fitz not been on crutches.

 

[Sheffielder]

Should ND decide to join the B1G, watch for Washington, Oregon and Stanford. That would make 20 Teams

On one hand...sure. Five programs on the west coast; their own division - makes logical sense.

Until you look on the other side of the country and see all those ACC schools ripe for the picking that yield inroads into the southeast.

I won't waste my breath arguing logic in a world where UCLA and USC just joined the Big Ten, but I also won't assume any natural attractiveness about schools in the Pacific Northwest.

But also, for quick reference, AAU schools that could be in the conversation (if you assume AAU membership still means something):
Arizona
Cal
Colorado
Duke
Georgia Tech
Kansas
North Carolina
Oregon
Pitt
Utah
Stanford
Virginia

 

[ashley0623]

For the very soul of the conference and college football.

Neither school would probably add any cash to the pockets of the other Big Ten programs, and they might just even end up being a net loss.

As a Northwestern fan, having Stanford in the conference would not be as advantageous as having them on the outside looking in from a less prominent conference.

Regardless of those points, do we want to see these great institutions with amazing histories relegated to the likes of the Mountain West or the Big 12. It would be a shame Who cares if they are not great football programs currently. There is something inherent about college athletics that demands their inclusion.

Cal and Stanford are not Iowa State and Kansas. They posses something that makes them feel like they belong in the Big Ten. I can't really articulate what it is, but I know it is there.

Lastly, I feel like if the Big Ten turns its back on Cal and Stanford, I think it is only a matter of time before Northwestern and some other current Big Ten school see themselves on the outside looking in.

Take 15 minutes to watch this video. The data is incredible and I felt like I was in the Big Ten boardroom. It makes a very compelling case for Cal and Stanford with R&D expenditures, B1G alumni demographics, etc.

 

[Katatonic]

While sharing the sentiment, depending on how things break, may be room for only 1 Bay area school.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Agree. I also go to Cal games and got excellent tickets to the '95 Rose Bowl per the Pac 10 conference allotment. What sucks about USC joining the BIG in two years is that we won't have a rematch of the Rose Bowl Game that I'm sure NU would have won had Fitz not been on crutches.

We'll have that rematch in the B1G Championship game. Which will be played in Pasadena.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Take 15 minutes to watch this video. The data is incredible and I felt like I was in the Big Ten boardroom. It makes a very compelling case for Cal and Stanford with R&D expenditures, B1G alumni demographics, etc.

View embedded media

Not sure I agree 100% (for instance, not sure we will do both Cal and Stanford) but overall I thought it was well reasoned except they probably should have done something for the ACC/non Pac-10 schools. I'm not sure Virginia and Carolina are better adds vs. Miami or Florida State, or for that matter UT and Florida. It does clearly lay out why schools like Arizona and Colorado don't stand a chance.

The game is changed. We are now national. Which means I think anyone is in play. Even some of the SEC schools. We need to think bigger - I think if he had done the same analysis on the remaining schools, we don't end up with the schools he's projecting for 24.

 

[Eurocat]

Neither school would probably add any cash to the pockets of the other Big Ten programs, and they might just even end up being a net loss.

Then we do not need them, sorry.

 

[OblioCat]

Washington and Oregon legislatures will hope to keep their schools together. We’re at 16 members in 2024, so 18 total with Cal and Stanford would provide 8 division games if two remain.
I personally like the academic prestige and Olympic sports quality of the Bay Area schools, and there isn’t much else to the west coast market.
If it has to happen, I’m all for Cal and Stanford.

 

[Katatonic]

Don't worry, I'm sure we will still be stuck with inane non-con games, meaning we will be on the West Coast like once every 10 years

Wouldn't be too sure of that if the B1G expands to 24 schools.

Then we do not need them, sorry.

On their own basis, the B1G doesn't need the 2 Bay area schools or Washington/Oregon for that matter, but there's a scenario where adding schools which wouldn't bring in $90-100 million on their own would do so in the aggregate.

If the B1G takes the most desirable P12 schools remaining and the best ACC schools that best fit within the expanded B1G footprint (keeping regional rivalries intact), then the B1G can increase what those schools would bring in by basically gutting the P12 and ACC (the SEC also expanding taking schools like Clemson, FSU, etc.).

By gutting the other conferences, networks and streaming services wouldn't offer the schools left behind much $$.

FS1 and ESPN/ABC would no longer need to pay $25+ million per school for the ACC and Pac12, or for that matter the B12 (can see the strongest remaining remnants of the ACC, B12 and Pac12 form their own national "superconference," but it would clearly be a Tier 2 conference).

All the major networks and streaming services would want a piece of the B1G and SEC - which would be the equivalent of the EPL, with the Champions of the 2 leagues effectively playing for the national championship.

 

[Katatonic]

The conference can only handle so many schools and what makes you think NU will be on the outside? They won't. A founding member!

Anything is possible - heck, dOSU was contemplating going independent and their AD, Smith, basically threw the rest of the B1G under the bus by basically saying that with the addition of the 2 LA schools (really, mostly USC), dOSU would no longer have the burden of carrying the rest of the conference alone.

Being both a Buckeye and a Domer, Smith just oozes condescension and smugness, doesn't he...

But along the same lines, why wouldn't the B1G also toss out one of the schools in a state with 2 B1G schools in order to maximize payouts?

Largely looking at Purdue (doubly so if ND ends up joining), but MSU is a possibility as, tho being a respectable FB school along with being a near BB blue blood probably would keep them safe.

All in all, think NU is safe due to the value of being in Chicago (or right next door).

Tons of B1G alums in the Chicago-land area and there's great value in connecting with them at games (fundraising, networking).

Same thing applies to Rutgers with all the B1G alums in the NYC metro area and potentially Stanford and/or Cal for the Bay area.

Also, if a conference was comprised solely of heavy-hitters, then they all wouldn't remain that way (someone has to end up being the losing program).

If the B1G expands to include Stanford (and Cal?), Dook and UNC (and UVA?) - then the top 3rd of the conference would be able to rival the Ivies when it comes to academic prestige.

While this maybe wouldn't be a big factor for dOSU - schools like PSU, Wisconsin, Illinois, etc. do care about being associated with elite academics.

Can you imagine how much more smug the proverbial "Michigan man" would be thinking that he got the equivalent of an Ivy League education?

 

[Katatonic]

Unfortunately, think that equal shares will stop at TV and streaming revenue.

When it comes to the playoffs, think the participating schools will end up getting the bulk of that revenue (just like NFL playoff teams).

That's probably a concession that the non-football powers will have to make.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Some more data that I thought was illuminating. Adding Stanford would be like adding NU. Would we get an invite if we weren’t a charter member? Colorado once again is a non starter. Oregon more watched than Nebraska and Wisconsin and just behind ND, who is only 9th. They seem to be worth a lot less than anyone thought. Talk of ND having any leverage or being able to squeeze a sweet heart deal appears to be bunk. Take them if they willingly capitulate to equal terms, otherwise move on and be happy with Oregon. Virginia watched less than Northwestern so no way should be going to that well.

 

[curdog]

View embedded media

Some more data that I thought was illuminating. Adding Stanford would be like adding NU. Would we get an invite if we weren’t a charter member? Colorado once again is a non starter. Oregon more watched than Nebraska and Wisconsin and just behind ND, who is only 9th. They seem to be worth a lot less than anyone thought. Talk of ND having any leverage or being able to squeeze a sweet heart deal appears to be bunk. Take them if they willingly capitulate to equal terms, otherwise move on and be happy with Oregon. Virginia watched less than Northwestern so no way should be going to that well.

If UVA and/or UNC want to join BIG (removing the whole GOR issue) there is no way BIG says no. These are the flagship universities of 2 rapidly growing states that produce a lot of high school graduates (think NJ). Absolute no brainer

 

[NJCat]

If UVA and/or UNC want to join BIG (removing the whole GOR issue) there is no way BIG says no. These are the flagship universities of 2 rapidly growing states that produce a lot of high school graduates (think NJ). Absolute no brainer

There is zero chance an ACC team leaves that conference until 2036, given the dumb TV rights contract the league signed. They are just screwed.

 

[HappyNUyear]

Here are the current media rights agreement and the grant of rights agreements for each conference;

*B1G Media Rights Agreement and Grant of Rights Agreement expire in 2023/24

*Pac 12 Media Rights Agreement and Grant of Rights Agreement expire in 2023/24

*Big XII Media Rights Agreement and Grand of Rights Agreement expire in 2024

*Notre Dame NBC Media Rights Agreement expires in 2025

*ACC Media Rights Agreement expires in 2023/24. ACC Grant of Rights Agreement expires in 2036.

*SEC Media Rights Agreement with CBS expires in 2023/24. SEC Media Rights Agreement with ESPN/ABC expires in 2034. SEC Grant of Rights Agreement expires in 2034

**B1G Network is owned by; FOX SPORTS (61% by Fox Corp/39% by B1G)
**ACC Network is owned by; ESPN (80% Disney/20% Hearst Corp)
**SEC Network is owned by; ESPN (80% Disney/20% Hearst Corp)
**Pac-12 Network is owned by; Pac-12 Conference
**Big XII does not own their own network (Texas Longhorn Network (ESPN, UT & Learfield) will cease ops after SEC move)

 

[curdog]

There is zero chance an ACC team leaves that conference until 2036, given the dumb TV rights contract the league signed. They are just screwed.

I agree, but the delta between what BIG and ACC will earn over next decade is just too big for the UNCs and UVAs to at least try to get out of GOR

 

[EvanstonCat]

If UVA and/or UNC want to join BIG (removing the whole GOR issue) there is no way BIG sa ys no. These are the flagship universities of 2 rapidly growing states that produce a lot of high school graduates (think NJ). Absolute no brainer

Not if they don't make the pie bigger. Absolutely we could say no. Rutgers brought in the NYC DMA supposedly. And when we added them and Maryland, the threshold to pay your way (enlargen the pie) was much much lower than it is now. Neither UVA nor UNC bring anything close to that. They have to make the pie bigger, and without having looked at the math, I'm not sure they do, especially if UDub and Oregon fail to do so.

 

[curdog]

Not if they don't make the pie bigger. Absolutely we could say no. Rutgers brought in the NYC DMA supposedly. And when we added them and Maryland, the threshold to pay your way (enlargen the pie) was much much lower than it is now. Neither UVA nor UNC bring anything close to that. They have to make the pie bigger, and without having looked at the math, I'm not sure they do, especially if UDub and Oregon fail to do so.

You need to think bigger than what’s going to increase the next
tV deal. What is best for the universities currently in BIG? There is no doubt it is in the long term benefit to BIG universities to have UNC and UVA. Demographics being 1, markets being 2 (Charlotte Raleigh Richmond dc) and prestige being 3. Like I said, no brainer.

GOR probably makes this moot, although lawyers I’m sure have been going through it thoroughly.

 

[Titanium999]

Since Cal is my second team (as I have posted here over the years, I am a longtime Cal STH), having Cal and Stanford join the B1G would be more attractive than other alternatives mentioned. However, both as the dad of an Oregon alum and as a Cal fan, it is hard to express how awful the B1G’s poaching of the LA schools is, and what it means for college sports.
The PAC 8 schools were in many ways a near perfect conference configuration. Each team has a natural rival, they are all in the same time zone, they have played each other for a zillion years, and with the exception of Pullman, each university is in a place that is a great destination for a road-trip to see your team play. The other thing this particular group of schools (again with the exception of WSU) brought was excellence in non-revenue and women’s sports. As a B1G fan in the years I lived in the Chicago area, I can remember wrestling as the one attractive non-revenue sport; while support for women’s sports has improved in the quarter century since I relocated, it was miles ahead on the west coast when I got here and continues to be a very high priority for the member schools. I really valued that commitment since my daughter grew to be an outstanding multi-sport athlete, and going to Cal women’s games in various sports helped her build enthusiasm for competing.
The PAC conference, outside of football, has been exemplary in its development of true student athletes. In football and basketball, the regional aspect of the conference has been great. I really believe, unfortunately, that for the LA schools non-revenue sport athletes the travel requirements will be an incredible burden, and the loss of two flagship schools will weaken the programs in the other schools. For football and men’s basketball, replacing two longtime high profile rivals with, say SDSU and Boise State, will help kill the joy of trips to memorial stadium. Even more extreme, if Cal and Stanford joined the Big 12, it would be the worst of all worlds. Personally, I would benefit from the Bay Area schools joining the B1G in that I would see the Cats more often, but that personal gain in no way makes up for the damage this move is going to do to college sports on the West Coast.

Well said! But I think everyone is in survival mode right now!

 

[Katatonic]

There is zero chance an ACC team leaves that conference until 2036, given the dumb TV rights contract the league signed. They are just screwed.

If enough of them want to leave, they can dissolve the conference (think it would take 8 schools).

I agree, but the delta between what BIG and ACC will earn over next decade is just too big for the UNCs and UVAs to at least try to get out of GOR

Yeah, they thought that signing a longterm GoR and TV contract(s) would keep them safe, but in reality, it's screwing them over when it comes to $.

But even if their TV contract(s) were open for re-negotiation sooner, would (mainly) ESPN/Disney be interested in giving the ACC anywhere close to what they are paying for the SEC

Nope.

Word is that a # of ACC schools have looked into getting out of their GoR agreement - so that, right there, is a major indication that the ACC is on shaky ground for the longer term.

 

[Katatonic]

Not if they don't make the pie bigger. Absolutely we could say no. Rutgers brought in the NYC DMA supposedly. And when we added them and Maryland, the threshold to pay your way (enlargen the pie) was much much lower than it is now. Neither UVA nor UNC bring anything close to that. They have to make the pie bigger, and without having looked at the math, I'm not sure they do, especially if UDub and Oregon fail to do so.

As I had stated, while it seems counterintuitive, adding more schools which, by themselves, wouldn't add equitable value (ND being the only school that would/that the B1G would be interested in), could, in the aggregate, do so by severely deflating the value of what's left of the ACC, Pac 12 and B12.

ESPN/Disney and FS1/Fox would now only offer pennies for the leftovers, with more of that $$ which would have gone to those conferences, now going to the B1G and SEC.

If the B1G and SEC take the choicest parts of the ACC, and a few more schools from the Pac 12, then you have a built in national audience (split btwn the 2 super-conferences).

Could be a misdirection, but Finebaum has been talking up the SEC eying UNC as the pairing they want from the ACC w/ Clemson.

If ND ends up joining the B1G, could see UNC being #1 on the wishlist for the 18th school.

 

[csh2088]

Seems like the B1G only want Stanford in hopes of getting Notre Dame to join and if there going to do that might as well invite Pitt, Navy, and Boston College.

B1G is fine without Notre Dame and don't know people are so desperate to get them in a conference.

 

[docrugby1]

I have not given this a lot of thought but has anyone considered the B1G dividing into 2 divisions of either 8 or 9 teams but playing their "non-conference " games against members of the other division. This would guarantee that all members would play each other during a player's career and also create frequent matchups between powers from each division.

An 8 team division would have 7 conference games and 4 B1G non-conference games with one at large, A nine team division could play 8 conference games and 3-4 B1G non-conference games keeping all the income within the conference or allowing one at large game

Unfortunately, a Division winner could have a losing record taking the luster off the conference championship game. If you made the cross division games ,conference games , a 9 team conference would not have an at large game but all teams would play each other in a 2 year window, home and away within 4 years. An 8 team division would maintain their at large game for possible "money games"

Just an idea to maximize revenue within the B1G and put more pressure on conference outliers to join-ND, UVA, UNC etc

 

[jne381]

I have not given this a lot of thought but has anyone considered the B1G dividing into 2 divisions of either 8 or 9 teams but playing their "non-conference " games against members of the other division. This would guarantee that all members would play each other during a player's career and also create frequent matchups between powers from each division.

An 8 team division would have 7 conference games and 4 B1G non-conference games with one at large, A nine team division could play 8 conference games and 3-4 B1G non-conference games keeping all the income within the conference or allowing one at large game

Unfortunately, a Division winner could have a losing record taking the luster off the conference championship game. If you made the cross division games ,conference games , a 9 team conference would not have an at large game but all teams would play each other in a 2 year window, home and away within 4 years. An 8 team division would maintain their at large game for possible "money games"

Just an idea to maximize revenue within the B1G and put more pressure on conference outliers to join-ND, UVA, UNC etc

It would be great, but the problem you run into is that powerhouse programs that have very large stadiums and can sell them out would only have 6 games to sell out, as opposed to the 7-8 they have now. Also, early season non-conference games give teams a chance to get "tuned-up" and work some stuff out, without damaging their conference standing. Finally, it takes away the ability of teams to schedule a marquee national matchup every other year or so against someone outside of the conference.

 

[stpaulcat]

For the very soul of the conference and college football.

Neither school would probably add any cash to the pockets of the other Big Ten programs, and they might just even end up being a net loss.

As a Northwestern fan, having Stanford in the conference would not be as advantageous as having them on the outside looking in from a less prominent conference.

Regardless of those points, do we want to see these great institutions with amazing histories relegated to the likes of the Mountain West or the Big 12? It would be a shame. Who cares if they are not great football programs currently. There is something inherent about college athletics that demands their inclusion.

Cal and Stanford are not Iowa State and Kansas. They posses something that makes them feel like they belong in the Big Ten. I can't really articulate what it is, but I know it is there.

Lastly, I feel like if the Big Ten turns its back on Cal and Stanford, I think it is only a matter of time before Northwestern and some other current Big Ten schools see themselves on the outside looking in.

Your last paragraph makes a very good point. Unless NU ups it's game.

 

[stpaulcat]

Since Cal is my second team (as I have posted here over the years, I am a longtime Cal STH), having Cal and Stanford join the B1G would be more attractive than other alternatives mentioned. However, both as the dad of an Oregon alum and as a Cal fan, it is hard to express how awful the B1G’s poaching of the LA schools is, and what it means for college sports.
The PAC 8 schools were in many ways a near perfect conference configuration. Each team has a natural rival, they are all in the same time zone, they have played each other for a zillion years, and with the exception of Pullman, each university is in a place that is a great destination for a road-trip to see your team play. The other thing this particular group of schools (again with the exception of WSU) brought was excellence in non-revenue and women’s sports. As a B1G fan in the years I lived in the Chicago area, I can remember wrestling as the one attractive non-revenue sport; while support for women’s sports has improved in the quarter century since I relocated, it was miles ahead on the west coast when I got here and continues to be a very high priority for the member schools. I really valued that commitment since my daughter grew to be an outstanding multi-sport athlete, and going to Cal women’s games in various sports helped her build enthusiasm for competing.
The PAC conference, outside of football, has been exemplary in its development of true student athletes. In football and basketball, the regional aspect of the conference has been great. I really believe, unfortunately, that for the LA schools non-revenue sport athletes the travel requirements will be an incredible burden, and the loss of two flagship schools will weaken the programs in the other schools. For football and men’s basketball, replacing two longtime high profile rivals with, say SDSU and Boise State, will help kill the joy of trips to memorial stadium. Even more extreme, if Cal and Stanford joined the Big 12, it would be the worst of all worlds. Personally, I would benefit from the Bay Area schools joining the B1G in that I would see the Cats more often, but that personal gain in no way makes up for the damage this move is going to do to college sports on the West Coast.

You are SO 20th Century. In spite of that, you make excellent points, which now, fortunately or unfortunately may be irrelevant due to the done deal.