thorsin and Oliver aren't good enough

[EvanstonCat]

You're turning into Turk, rolling out pretty much the same post every time I try to be realistic about what our program faces.

Barnett also posted a winless conference record before high-failing it to Boulder, so let's not make him out to be Lombardi.

That's a low blow and BS anyways. I'll keep on rolling out pretty much the same post every time you post your BS excuses.

I'll take the lows with the highs rather than steady mediocrity any day of the week. If you see the dip that Barnett experienced, and the subsequent championship that his recruits won in 2000, it is exactly the same pattern that Barry Alvarez blazed in building Wisconsin into the powerhouse it became. Barnett may not be Lombardi, but he was the best coach we ever had since perhaps Ara.

 

[NUCat320]

There is now way smith signs here unless he was told he would have a shot. He had too many other offers. Alviti has no shot. Ya gotta be able to throw the football (a little at least) in this offense and he can't
From what I have read smith has really impressed in these 7 on 7 camps.
His completion percent his senior year is like 68. That's pretty damn good for HS. Looking forward to qb competition next year

Yes he'll have a shot. But the likelihood is that he'll also have a redshirt year. So, in year two perhaps he'd be in a competition with a third year starting qb. Or perhaps he would be a backup for two seasons, with a chance to take over as a junior.

 

[EvanstonCat]

There is an egregiously ignorant straw man floating around these boards like a stale turd, propped up by a few posters with shallow thoughts. It is an argument that fans who are not willing to strongly criticize the coaching and player performance are willing to "accept mediocrity."

This argument represents a steep slippery slope to idiocy. The underlying premise of this argument is that posters, by some unexplained force, can impact the performance of the team through highly critical commentary here. Obviously, this is utterly bunk. The best you can do, as a fan, is take your singular allegiance elsewhere and hope that Fitz & Co might notice. This is unlikely.

If "accepting mediocrity" means continuing to support an underachieving team through buying tickets, watching BTN, posting here, etc., then those that exhibit this behavior are likely motivated by a variety of factors that have little to do with compromising competitive ideals. Alma mater, amateur athletics, social interaction, outdoor events, etc. are all factors in fans consuming college football. It's not about accepting mediocrity, rather it's about enjoying Northwestern Wildcat football, regardless of how blemished the outcomes may appear to some.

An equally ignorant strawman is posed by those who suggest that those who want to be critical and bitch about the coaching and the tolerance of mediocrity do so because they think for a second that their comments would have any impact on the program and aren't being critical because a) they just like to say it like it is, or b) they want to vent their frustrations when things are not so great. Go ahead and enjoy Northwestern football - no one is asking you not to. Don't tread on the rights of any fellow NU fans who continue to support an underachieving team through buying tix, watching BTN, etc... to call it the way they see it, to vent on a fricking message board, or to otherwise have an opinion. It may happen to be the way they enjoy Northwestern football.

 

[shakes3858]

That's a low blow and BS anyways. I'll keep on rolling out pretty much the same post every time you post your BS excuses.

I'll take the lows with the highs rather than steady mediocrity any day of the week. If you see the dip that Barnett experienced, and the subsequent championship that his recruits won in 2000, it is exactly the same pattern that Barry Alvarez blazed in building Wisconsin into the powerhouse it became. Barnett may not be Lombardi, but he was the best coach we ever had since perhaps Ara.

What Barry Alvarez lows are you talking about? Wins per year for Alvarez on top Barnett underneath:
1 5 5 10.5 7.5 5 8 8 11 10 9 5 8 7 9 10
3 2 3 10 9 5 3

Alvarez never went below 5 wins after year 1. Let's do big ten wins:
0 2 3 6.5 4.5 3.5 5 7 7 4 3 2 4 6 5
3 0 2 8 7 3 0

Yeah, Alvarez didn't dip after the a couple Rosebowls. Only OSU can keep up the 7 to 8 win mark in the Big Ten that consistently, but he NEVER hit 0 Big Ten wins including lots of blowouts.

 

[DocCatsFan]

Except that there is no evidence that NU's OL does a particularly bad job at pass protection. Per sacks allowed, NU is #64 of 125, giving up slightly over 2 sacks per game. The bottom team allows near 4. That isn't the only way to measure pass protection, but it is certainly a legit way, and it strongly suggests that NU's OL is OK. Not a strength, but not a weakness. Certainly not a valid explanation of why CT is ranked 109 of 115 in pass efficiency.
Blaming the WR is easy. But it's not so simple.
You seem to be assuming that the 108 QB's that are ranked ahead of CT, including many freshmen, all have WR's who get open more often, and drop passes less often than NU's. Fact is, most of us do not follow closely all the other teams, nor even the ones with FR QB's, to ascertain that NU's WR's do a significantly worse job than all the others. They probably do worse than some, of course. But if they are to be blamed for CT's near bottom rank, it must be that NU's WR's do significantly worse than nearly all the others. Easier said than proven.

Of course your defense of our O Line is really a defense of Clayton Thorson, who you are trying to tear down. His sacks are as low as they are because the kid can flat out run. Saying our O line protects him well by your "numbers" is simply a case of "I don't believe my lying eyes."

 

[shakes3858]

An equally ignorant strawman is posed by those who suggest that those who want to be critical and bitch about the coaching and the tolerance of mediocrity do so because they think for a second that their comments would have any impact on the program and aren't being critical because a) they just like to say it like it is, or b) they want to vent their frustrations when things are not so great. Go ahead and enjoy Northwestern football - no one is asking you not to. Don't tread on the rights of any fellow NU fans who continue to support an underachieving team through buying tix, watching BTN, etc... to call it the way they see it, to vent on a fricking message board, or to otherwise have an opinion. It may happen to be the way they enjoy Northwestern football.

The rules of the message board expressly state that attacks on players are inappropriate. You want to call it the way you see it, that's fine. The way I see it is anyone that needs a message board to vent about a 19 year old kid that is just trying to play a game a get an education needs to find something better to do with there time.

 

[shakes3858]

There is an egregiously ignorant straw man floating around these boards like a stale turd, propped up by a few posters with shallow thoughts. It is an argument that fans who are not willing to strongly criticize the coaching and player performance are willing to "accept mediocrity."

This argument represents a steep slippery slope to idiocy. The underlying premise of this argument is that posters, by some unexplained force, can impact the performance of the team through highly critical commentary here. Obviously, this is utterly bunk. The best you can do, as a fan, is take your singular allegiance elsewhere and hope that Fitz & Co might notice. This is unlikely.

If "accepting mediocrity" means continuing to support an underachieving team through buying tickets, watching BTN, posting here, etc., then those that exhibit this behavior are likely motivated by a variety of factors that have little to do with compromising competitive ideals. Alma mater, amateur athletics, social interaction, outdoor events, etc. are all factors in fans consuming college football. It's not about accepting mediocrity, rather it's about enjoying Northwestern Wildcat football, regardless of how blemished the outcomes may appear to some.

One of the best posts I've ever read.

 

[EvanstonCat]

What Barry Alvarez lows are you talking about? Wins per year for Alvarez on top Barnett underneath:
1 5 5 10.5 7.5 5 8 8 11 10 9 5 8 7 9 10
3 2 3 10 9 5 3

Alvarez never went below 5 wins after year 1. Let's do big ten wins:
0 2 3 6.5 4.5 3.5 5 7 7 4 3 2 4 6 5
3 0 2 8 7 3 0

Yeah, Alvarez didn't dip after the a couple Rosebowls. Only OSU can keep up the 7 to 8 win mark in the Big Ten that consistently, but he NEVER hit 0 Big Ten wins including lots of blowouts.

Didn't say he did. But there was most certainly a dip (what we call a bow-wave in the biz world) as his post RoseBowl classes caught up to performance on the field. Barnett was on his way in the same manner, and I still have no doubt he would have been very successful had he stayed, and continued to recruit successfully. Just like he helped Colorado win consistent divisional championships when he went there.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The rules of the message board expressly state that attacks on players are inappropriate. You want to call it the way you see it, that's fine. The way I see it is anyone that needs a message board to vent about a 19 year old kid that is just trying to play a game a get an education needs to find something better to do with there time.

Great - so point out where I attack a player anywhere.

 

[elgatoloco]

Turk your thought is that a benching shows major changes in coaching evaluation. I don't think it implies that at all.

I'm trying to remember a freshman QB on any team who started from day 1 and wasn't benched at some point for at least a couple series. Rosen so far has gone without benching. But the other ten or so QBs that came to mind all were holding the clipboard at least once.

It isn't just poor performance that drives benching. Its trying to get their team to play optimally acknowledging what can hold back a young QB. Often the team needs to coach the QB back up. Sometimes its to get the right QB in for what they want to do next.

"Benching" is different from giving the QB a break to observe the game a bit, a long-established developmental technique. From Feli's fake statistical analysis to Turk's breathless prose about a player none of us has seen, the conversation about this issue has been ridiculous.

Criticism about Thorson and whoever is fine for this year, but nobody here knows what will happen to the QB position next year. Nobody. Based on Basanez's sophomore year -- a year that featured 4 TD passes and 12 INTs and so little trust in the passing game that against Illinois and Motor City Bowl they were running no matter what the down and distance--nobody in the fan base could have projected that he'd eventually become one of NU's most successful QBs.

 

[shakes3858]

Great - so point out where I attack a player anywhere.

Here you go:
"Unfortunately, our WR coach doesn't have his unit even making this basic requirement much less everything else that goes with being a good WR."

I wouldn't have a problem with you even saying this... but from you, Turk, and many others it's the same refrain over and over and over.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Here you go:
"Unfortunately, our WR coach doesn't have his unit even making this basic requirement much less everything else that goes with being a good WR."

I wouldn't have a problem with you even saying this... but from you, Turk, and many others it's the same refrain over and over and over.

So, name the player I am attacking. Apparently, gocatsgo is guilty too since he agreed with me.

I'm pretty sure that this does not fall within the boundaries of what constitutes a personal attack on a player, but if that's the best you can do, well, I guess there really isn't any point to continue this discussion.

BTW, with regards to the quality of our WR play, and subsequently the implications of the quality of our WR coaching, I will continue to point this out, again and again and again, until it changes. I realize it's kind of becoming a statement like the sun rises every morning, but I can't stop myself.

 

[Turk]

"Benching" is different from giving the QB a break to observe the game a bit, a long-established developmental technique. From Feli's fake statistical analysis to Turk's breathless prose about a player none of us has seen, the conversation about this issue has been ridiculous.

Criticism about Thorson and whoever is fine for this year, but nobody here knows what will happen to the QB position next year. Nobody. Based on Basanez's sophomore year -- a year that featured 4 TD passes and 12 INTs and so little trust in the passing game that against Illinois and Motor City Bowl they were running no matter what the down and distance--nobody in the fan base could have projected that he'd eventually become one of NU's most successful QBs.

of course ive seen him throw. He is going to get his chance. Without any doubt i can say with 100% certainty that he is our best pure qb on the roster and im glad we redshirted him. obviously thorson is a talent but #2 next year will be Green, who is phenomenal. Actually a gladeskat special 2 star.

 

[shakes3858]

So, name the player I am attacking. Apparently, gocatsgo is guilty too since he agreed with me.

I'm pretty sure that this does not fall within the boundaries of what constitutes a personal attack on a player, but if that's the best you can do, well, I guess there really isn't any point to continue this discussion.

BTW, with regards to the quality of our WR play, and subsequently the implications of the quality of our WR coaching, I will continue to point this out, again and again and again, until it changes. I realize it's kind of becoming a statement like the sun rises every morning, but I can't stop myself.

Well if you said our WRs can't do the basic thing or anything to make them a WR, then you attacked every single WR (Jones, Carr, McHugh Scanlan, Shuler, Dickerson)... and our WR coach which the board also has a rule against doing. Did I say GCG is perfect? I did not and feel he is not perfect. Better informed than most yes, but far from perfect.

I'm not going to go through all your old posts to find attacks. Instead every time I read one I'm going to respond #attack... until people get sick of me doing it which won't take more than a day or two most likely.

 

[hdhntr1]

I think our WR's and OL are a MUCH heavier "burden" than our QB. So much so that Tom Brady would struggle at QB for us.

He for sure wouldn't be getting them any isotoners for Xmas

 

[EvanstonCat]

Well if you said our WRs can't do the basic thing or anything to make them a WR, then you attacked every single WR (Jones, Carr, McHugh Scanlan, Shuler, Dickerson)... and our WR coach which the board also has a rule against doing. Did I say GCG is perfect? I did not and feel he is not perfect. Better informed than most yes, but far from perfect.

I'm not going to go through all your old posts to find attacks. Instead every time I read one I'm going to respond #attack... until people get sick of me doing it which won't take more than a day or two most likely.

#nonsense

 

[catsattackfor3]

These two quarterbacks are brutal. Luckily the team around them are good enough to pull off wins.

What not good enough to start at Alabama? or tOSU? ok maybe be not good enough to play over Cook at Michigan State.... Geez Thorson is a red shirt freshman, Oliver is a career back up, the team is 8-2!! Yes they are not solely running offense like Persa, Kafka, Colter or even going back to Kustok. Enough with the negativity.

 

[Turk]

He for sure wouldn't be getting them any isotoners for Xmas

our ol has proven serviceable against teams that are not overpowering. A little more play action has helped them. They have amazingly played as a unit with very good communication. im impressed that they have maintained a consistent playing level even with multiple starters out.

 

[Hungry Jack]

An equally ignorant strawman is posed by those who suggest that those who want to be critical and bitch about the coaching and the tolerance of mediocrity do so because they think for a second that their comments would have any impact on the program and aren't being critical because a) they just like to say it like it is, or b) they want to vent their frustrations when things are not so great. Go ahead and enjoy Northwestern football - no one is asking you not to. Don't tread on the rights of any fellow NU fans who continue to support an underachieving team through buying tix, watching BTN, etc... to call it the way they see it, to vent on a fricking message board, or to otherwise have an opinion. It may happen to be the way they enjoy Northwestern football.

Valid points. So you enjoy NU football by sounding miserable?

 

[DocCatsFan]

of course ive seen him throw. He is going to get his chance. Without any doubt i can say with 100% certainty that he is our best pure qb on the roster and im glad we redshirted him. obviously thorson is a talent but #2 next year will be Green, who is phenomenal. Actually a gladeskat special 2 star.

With most fans, the backup QB is the best player on the team. With Turk, it's the 5th stringer or a guy who is still in high school. The grass is always greener...

 

[EvanstonCat]

Valid points. So you enjoy NU football by sounding miserable?

When NU football does well, I'm happy! When NU football does poorly, yes, I'm miserable. Enjoy may not be the right word.

Incidentally, NU football is actually doing pretty well right now. Though the offense is horrible (#attack - by certain people's definitions, I have just attacked half the team and their coaches - mea culpa). So, I find misery even when the team is doing well and I'm still generally happy.

 

[hdhntr1]

Curious as to why you think our oline is bad when we average about 200 yards rushing per game with absolutely no threat of a pass game? Do you realize how hard it is to rush the ball effectively when the opposing team is geared to stop the run because they have absolutely no respect for our receivers? The clear weakness of this offense is the WR position. The oline has done just fine under the circumstances.

The OL is presently a mash unit. For the game against Purdue DePietro out, Mogus, out, Park I believe out and Merks went down. Just saying the OL has not been stellar but injuries have made things even dicier. You want to see good OLs, Look and Indiana, look at IA, even MN. These teams, OL is a point of emphasis.( I am not bringing up OSU or other big boys as it is likely we will never have the talent of them).

 

[Turk]

With most fans, the backup QB is the best player on the team. With Turk, it's the 5th stringer or a guy who is still in high school. The grass is always greener...

huh? ok. well stop all your post about how good a recruit is then. im just tellin you guys that we have something to look forward to with Green. Nothing against Smith but all of you who have engaged in this conversation have not even considered Green. Im not saying he will overtake Thorson but he clearly is our purest qb. the guy "gets it" and he has a very good arm. does he have the athletic talent and template as Thorson...no. But there is no way that i see Green any lower than #2 next year. You can make your case for alviti again, and the people in this thread can advocate the talent of smith, but Green is here to compete with the best. Those who saw practices this year know that Green is interesting.

 

[hdhntr1]

It doesn't help that we are ineffective running the ball against strong rushing defenses. I've seen Alabama 2-3 times this year, and their QB is nothing special at all, but having five monsters on the o-line plus a 240-pound running back to pound people with tends to cover the deficiency at QB.

Everyone struggles running the ball against strong rushing defenses, that is why they are strong rushing Ds. AL is a roster full of 4 and 5 star talent. Why do you think we should be compared to them?

 

[hdhntr1]

Exactly Turk. Other than the 1st drive the offense was putrid. Oliver came in and it seemed to spark offensive and I think it lit a fire under thorsons ass

Then where were the points? And didn't ZO throw an INT?

 

[hdhntr1]

Except that there is no evidence that NU's OL does a particularly bad job at pass protection. Per sacks allowed, NU is #64 of 125, giving up slightly over 2 sacks per game. The bottom team allows near 4. That isn't the only way to measure pass protection, but it is certainly a legit way, and it strongly suggests that NU's OL is OK. Not a strength, but not a weakness. Certainly not a valid explanation of why CT is ranked 109 of 115 in pass efficiency.
Blaming the WR is easy. But it's not so simple.
You seem to be assuming that the 108 QB's that are ranked ahead of CT, including many freshmen, all have WR's who get open more often, and drop passes less often than NU's. Fact is, most of us do not follow closely all the other teams, nor even the ones with FR QB's, to ascertain that NU's WR's do a significantly worse job than all the others. They probably do worse than some, of course. But if they are to be blamed for CT's near bottom rank, it must be that NU's WR's do significantly worse than nearly all the others. Easier said than proven.

Don't we run about 2 times what we pass? We should give up less sacks. Also how many sacks were avoided because CT broke contain and ran to avoid the sack

 

[shakes3858]

huh? ok. well stop all your post about how good a recruit is then. im just tellin you guys that we have something to look forward to with Green. Nothing against Smith but all of you who have engaged in this conversation have not even considered Green. Im not saying he will overtake Thorson but he clearly is our purest qb. the guy "gets it" and he has a very good arm. does he have the athletic talent and template as Thorson...no. But there is no way that i see Green any lower than #2 next year. You can make your case for alviti again, and the people in this thread can advocate the talent of smith, but Green is here to compete with the best. Those who saw practices this year know that Green is interesting.

Wait, aren't you the guy that spent 80% of last year touting how good the Hammer of Thorson was going to be? Just curious if you've given up completely on Alviti, you feel he's transferring or that he'll be at another position. Not that you'll be basing this on any semblance of a fact, but let's hear what you got.

 

[elgatoloco]

of course ive seen him throw. He is going to get his chance. Without any doubt i can say with 100% certainty that he is our best pure qb on the roster and im glad we redshirted him. obviously thorson is a talent but #2 next year will be Green, who is phenomenal. Actually a gladeskat special 2 star.

I hope you're right. It's quite a luxury to have a phenomenal QB on the bench.

 

[hdhntr1]

The Problem of Fitz is magnified and revealed continuously. The thesis is that his loyalty isnt necessarily a virtue. This problem has been confirmed yet again as we refused to address the ol and wr coaching deficiences in the offseason. And its a vicious cycle as no bigtime OL or WR dare come here. The problem of Fitz isnt catastrophic as Fitz and other coaches have been able to carry the less productive coaches.

As far as develoment, McCal had an NFL qb in TS but could do virtually nothing with him.

lets stop th BS Glades, do you think McCall is a great OC? Yes or no? do you think cushing andspringer are great coaches? yes or no. cuz if you cant share your opinion and conclusively say yes, then you are just stirring the pot.

Wasn't TS injured his JR and Sr seasons? Wasn't KC injured his senior season? McCall has done a descent job developing QBs.

I consider McCall to be a descent OC. Cushing is a hard one to evaluate as he has shown to be a pretty good recruiter but I cannot say that the OL has been a real strength. That said, with all the injuries this year, they have done OK. Springer? He has not shown much to get excited about.

 

[Turk]

Wait, aren't you the guy that spent 80% of last year touting how good the Hammer of Thorson was going to be? Just curious if you've given up completely on Alviti, you feel he's transferring or that he'll be at another position. Not that you'll be basing this on any semblance of a fact, but let's hear what you got.

im still pretty pumped about Thorson but im not going to claim we won 8 games because of him. i think he needs serious work but his talent is above any qb talent i have seen here. Fitz is handling him excellent and im sure Green will push Thorson to work extra hard. If Thorson gets hurt next year, Green will be a very solid #2. Alviti is a talent but had to change his mechanics and he honesty has little to no accuracy thrwing the ball now. Maybe he improves, dunno. But based on what i saw, im 100% certain that Green will be ahead of yates and alviti unless someone gets injured or someone improves dramatically. Green understands and is very quick on the reads and seemed like he was already taking College QB 401.

 

[StreamCat]

There is an egregiously ignorant straw man floating around these boards like a stale turd, propped up by a few posters with shallow thoughts. It is an argument that fans who are not willing to strongly criticize the coaching and player performance are willing to "accept mediocrity."

This argument represents a steep slippery slope to idiocy. The underlying premise of this argument is that posters, by some unexplained force, can impact the performance of the team through highly critical commentary here. Obviously, this is utterly bunk. The best you can do, as a fan, is take your singular allegiance elsewhere and hope that Fitz & Co might notice. This is unlikely.

If "accepting mediocrity" means continuing to support an underachieving team through buying tickets, watching BTN, posting here, etc., then those that exhibit this behavior are likely motivated by a variety of factors that have little to do with compromising competitive ideals. Alma mater, amateur athletics, social interaction, outdoor events, etc. are all factors in fans consuming college football. It's not about accepting mediocrity, rather it's about enjoying Northwestern Wildcat football, regardless of how blemished the outcomes may appear to some.

I wish I had written that. I'm going to pretend I did.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

I hope you're right. It's quite a luxury to have a phenomenal QB on the bench.

A former NFL player who played at Indiana with Trent Green has followed TJ Green for quite a while in high school. Says TJ is the real deal.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I wish I had written that. I'm going to pretend I did.

I will sell you the copyright for $1 and a handshake.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Of course your defense of our O Line is really a defense of Clayton Thorson, who you are trying to tear down. His sacks are as low as they are because the kid can flat out run. Saying our O line protects him well by your "numbers" is simply a case of "I don't believe my lying eyes."

Sory but you will need to brush up on your logic. I mean it.
You are inherently assuming that the QB's of the 60+ teams that allow more sacks than NU does are immobile, and hence do nothing to avoid sacks. CT does not have a monopoly on mobility, and probably isn't the most mobile QB in the FBS. Great many teams in the FBS have dual threat QB's, or at least QBs that are reasonably elusive in avoiding sacks. Hence, a team that gives up, say 3 sacks per game (50% more than NU's) would give up even more if they had a statuesque QB. Just as CT avoids some possible sacks, so do the others. Yet, NU still allows far fewer sacks than many others do.

Anyhow, many around here believe that in fact CT prevents the OL from giving him more protection, because he bails out too quickly from the pocket. Potentially this ends up creating sacks instead of preventing them.

Finally, who the heck is trying to "tear down" CT? Pointing out his official stat rankings and comparing them to those of other freshmen is just that. His numbers are what they are, and the others are what they are, and all are public information freely available to everyone. Unintentionally playing poorly is not illegal, a character flaw, or anything to be embarrassed by, as long as he is TRYING his very best (which in all probability he is). He may well eventually play much better, and even become a star QB...or he may not...but he is playing today how he is playing, regardless of how he will eventually play.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

huh? ok. well stop all your post about how good a recruit is then. im just tellin you guys that we have something to look forward to with Green. Nothing against Smith but all of you who have engaged in this conversation have not even considered Green. Im not saying he will overtake Thorson but he clearly is our purest qb. the guy "gets it" and he has a very good arm. does he have the athletic talent and template as Thorson...no. But there is no way that i see Green any lower than #2 next year. You can make your case for alviti again, and the people in this thread can advocate the talent of smith, but Green is here to compete with the best. Those who saw practices this year know that Green is interesting.

You mean "those who saw Green throw probably 15 passes outside of warm-up's, the entirety of which were while running the scout team"?

 

[Turk]

You mean "those who saw Green throw probably 15 passes outside of warm-up's, the entirety of which were while running the scout team"?

that is incorrect. You may or may not have seen Green prior to kenosha. if so, then yes or no....does he belong and would you be shocked to see him as our #2 next year? yes or no and stop your dribble without offering an opinion yourself.

 

[Gladeskat]

Wasn't TS injured his JR and Sr seasons? Wasn't KC injured his senior season? McCall has done a descent job developing QBs.

I consider McCall to be a descent OC. Cushing is a hard one to evaluate as he has shown to be a pretty good recruiter but I cannot say that the OL has been a real strength. That said, with all the injuries this year, they have done OK. Springer? He has not shown much to get excited about.

Springer is one of our top recruiters and has been singled out for recognition for his recruiting.

 

[Turk]

Springer is one of our top recruiters and has been singled out for recognition for his recruiting.

Springer wasnt a big producing recruiter until recently but has done very well with some big names over the last couple years including thomas moten and harris. hence has promis and he nabbed some apparent good ones for next year. His slow star at recruiting in his first few years were no doubt his lack of network/relationships but he must have really established some solid relationships with high school coaches because i have been shocked at the excellent job he has done here in recruiting. cushing is pretty good but think springer is now our best. ill give him credit for that.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

that is incorrect. You may or may not have seen Green prior to kenosha. if so, then yes or no....does he belong and would you be shocked to see him as our #2 next year? yes or no and stop your dribble without offering an opinion yourself.

I haven't seen him myself, but people whose opinions I trust don't speak nearly as glowingly as you.

 

[pawildcat]

Everyone struggles running the ball against strong rushing defenses, that is why they are strong rushing Ds. AL is a roster full of 4 and 5 star talent. Why do you think we should be compared to them?

Indiana did not struggle at all running the ball against Michigan. How many four- and five-stars do they have? For that matter Iowa, with a total of eight four-stars on its entire roster, seems to both run and throw effectively most of the time. The point of my post, which you seem to have missed, is that Thorson's problems are compounded by the fact that we cannot run effectively against strong defenses, which makes us a one-dimensional passing team in a year we don't have a strong passing attack. This is not a problem when you're Alabama and can run over almost everyone you play whether you're throwing particularly well or not. Watching the QBs for Alabama and LSU, I frankly didn't think either of them were much better than Thorson.