Why the Michigan Hate: A Century of Douchebaggery

[jne381]

I was reading a Michigan board, and I saw a post lamenting all the Michigan hate. I thought this would be a good place to collect all the reasons other Big Ten members dislike Michigan.

Below are the reasons I know of:

#1. Michigan opposed letting the Chicago Bears play at Northwestern's stadium. This would have likely provided a nice financial boost the NU athletic department when it would have made a difference, and may have changed the future of NU football.

#2. Michigan made it impossible for ND to join the Big Ten when ND would have gladly done so. Part anti-Catholic bias and part not wanting another competitive team in the conference.

#3. Opposed the inclusion of Michigan State into the conference.

 

[techtim72]

They were caught red-handed, no question, and yet they come up with all manner of self-justification from everyone else does it to the rules are a joke, starting with their President. That is an institution without integrity and a moral center. They make it easy to dislike them.

Relative to NU and the Bears, clearly that was another era in town-gown relations assuming Evanston was OK with that. I don't think Evanston was quite as wealthy then and perhaps could have used the tax income.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I was reading a Michigan board, and I saw a post lamenting all the Michigan hate. I thought this would be a good place to collect all the reasons other Big Ten members dislike Michigan.

Below are the reasons I know of:

#1. Michigan opposed letting the Chicago Bears play at Northwestern's stadium. This would have likely provided a nice financial boost the NU athletic department when it would have made a difference, and may have changed the future of NU football.

#2. Michigan made it impossible for ND to join the Big Ten when ND would have gladly done so. Part anti-Catholic bias and part not wanting another competitive team in the conference.

#3. Opposed the inclusion of Michigan State into the conference.

Did the team travel to games by horse and buggy then?

 

[TheC]

Elite academic university with outstanding athletics and a passionate fanbase.… yeah… screw those assholes

 

[techtim72]

Delusional passionate fanbase.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I was reading a Michigan board, and I saw a post lamenting all the Michigan hate. I thought this would be a good place to collect all the reasons other Big Ten members dislike Michigan.

Below are the reasons I know of:

#1. Michigan opposed letting the Chicago Bears play at Northwestern's stadium. This would have likely provided a nice financial boost the NU athletic department when it would have made a difference, and may have changed the future of NU football.

#2. Michigan made it impossible for ND to join the Big Ten when ND would have gladly done so. Part anti-Catholic bias and part not wanting another competitive team in the conference.

#3. Opposed the inclusion of Michigan State into the conference.

Appreciate your effort here but I just can’t get it up. Maybe #1 is a good reason, but #2 I hate Notre Dame so I can understand their take even if in retrospect it would have been better to allow them to join at the time and #3 so what they are in.

I could never muster much hate for Umich for some reason. Always had a soft spot for them for some reason, maybe the enemy of my enemy is my friend or something like that.

 

[Frabjous]

Michigan wants us to love them? That’s adorable.

 

[TheC]

Michigan wants us to love them? That’s adorable.

Actually I think they want you to hate them. “Michigan against Everyone “ is their new rallying cry.

 

[jne381]

Appreciate your effort here but I just can’t get it up. Maybe #1 is a good reason, but #2 I hate Notre Dame so I can understand their take even if in retrospect it would have been better to allow them to join at the time and #3 so what they are in.

I could never muster much hate for Umich for some reason. Always had a soft spot for them for some reason, maybe the enemy of my enemy is my friend or something like that.

Don't get me wrong, I dislike OSU more than Michigan, and being surrounded by MSU fans/family, I don't dislike Michigan as much as any of them. However, Michigan has to recognize that when they want to be the jerk over and over and over, If they do anything, they are not going to get any love.

The response by Michigan was the board of regents discussing possibly leaving the Big Ten. It is the kind of arrogance reserved for a special few. We got caught cheating, and were punished, so we are going to take our ball and go home. They want extra special treatment because they bring in $$$.

My takes is that sign stealing is not that big of a deal, but a three-game (only for games) suspension is also not a big deal.

 

[TheC]

With Ped State being in our conference and having a former OSU coach who covered up for a wife-beater on his staff, I don't get all that worked up about sign stealing either. A suspension is fine, but let's not pretend like this is world changing stuff.

 

[Frabjous]

NU had the us-against-the-world attitude when Fitzgerald was fired, but that disappeared like snow in April when Braun won 5 games.

 

[NUCat320]

Michigan cheated, won’t deny they cheated. “I had no knowledge,” etc.

Michigan is simply angry that the B1G chose a punishment now, to the current team, rather than ‘investigating’ for four years while everyone involved moved on.

Stallions’ position on staff is weird, no matter how you slice it. It seems his qualifications were a) went to a lot of Michigan games, and b) good at stealing signs.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

NU had the us-against-the-world attitude when Fitzgerald was fired, but that disappeared like snow in April when Braun won 5 games.

Go ask the players if the us against the world attitude has disappeared? The answer won’t be what you think.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Delusional passionate fanbase.

They are not delusional this season. They are good enough to win it all.

 

[FeralFelidae]

NU had the us-against-the-world attitude when Fitzgerald was fired, but that disappeared like snow in April when Braun won 5 games.

Maybe they won 5 games because of that attitude.

 

[elgatoloco]

I'm not sure I understand point No. 2. Catholicism in Michigan has a strong power base, and I'm not sure of the current demographics, but it is/was the biggest religion in the state.

I grew up a serious Michigan fan. Today I wouldn't call myself a fan, but I generally hope they do well and root hard for them vs. OSU. My favorite story about their hard-core fans involves my neighbor, who was an athlete there. We were recalling the 54-51 game and he said, "You know, my favorite memory of that game is that when your running back dropped that pass on fourth down, the Michigan players went over to him to tell him to tell him great game." I replied, "My favorite memory was looking up at the scoreboard at the end of the game and seeing the score." Typical Michigan right there--they never lose, they just run out of time.

 

[elgatoloco]

Michigan cheated, won’t deny they cheated. “I had no knowledge,” etc.

Michigan is simply angry that the B1G chose a punishment now, to the current team, rather than ‘investigating’ for four years while everyone involved moved on.

Stallions’ position on staff is weird, no matter how you slice it. It seems his qualifications were a) went to a lot of Michigan games, and b) good at stealing signs.

Could be wrong, but I thought Stalions was brought on at Michigan when Harbaugh hired a coach from Navy who knew Stalions from his time volunteering for that program.

 

[techtim72]

Not delusional about rooting for their team - that's all good - delusional (perhaps not the greatest descriptor) about not accepting their guilt and responsibility for breaking the rules of competition and justifying it by saying no big deal, others do it, etc.

Someone will have to explain to me why doing what Michigan did isn't a big deal. It is hard for me to imagine anything more unfair than illegally obtaining the signs of your opponent. Knowing what plays they are calling? The only thing worse would be hiring Jeff Gilhooly to break kneecaps the day before. I think the coaches in the Big Ten were pissed and forced the Commissioner's hand to issue an in-season punishment.

 

[techtim72]

I don't know but relative to the Catholicism comment, the reluctance may have been based on bringing in a religious institution, similar to making a decision today on admitting BYU. I am Catholic but I can understand that broad concern. Not coming up with a good example but, stretching here, say there were advertisers for day after pills and the religious leaders didn't want that advertising associated with their game. I don't know, it is simply the point that a religious institution has a few different missions than secular ones.

The history on admitting ND brings up a very interesting concern, however. If the Big Ten did get ND to accept an invite there might be no shortage of angry faculty and students protesting against the "christo facists" or whatever the current perjorative is

 

[Frabjous]

Is anyone suggesting that Pat Fitzgerald be re-hired?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Is anyone suggesting that Pat Fitzgerald be re-hired?

Lol, shouldn’t have been fired in the first place!

 

[Frabjous]

Lol, shouldn’t have been fired in the first place!

Totally agree. Fitz should have gone on paid leave until they got the facts. That being said, I don’t think Fitz would have won 5 games or more this year.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

Is anyone suggesting that Pat Fitzgerald be re-hired?

If it were even infinitesimally feasible, I would hire back PF as the coach AND AD in a heartbeat.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Totally agree. Fitz should have gone on paid leave until they got the facts. That being said, I don’t think Fitz would have won 5 games or more this year.

Why? Which game does he lose? Why couldn’t he have won at Nebby and against Iowa. Hardly juggernauts. We also would have had about 8 more players, and they could have contributed. I just don’t understand this line of thinking.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Why? Which game does he lose? Why couldn’t he have won at Nebby and against Iowa. Hardly juggernauts. We also would have had about 8 more players, and they could have contributed. I just don’t understand this line of thinking.

He probably loses Howard or UTEP because we are almost good for an unacceptably bad loss with Fitz, even in our good years. And we don’t beat either Nebraska or Iowa because we would be playing even more Fitzball than we did this year.

You don’t understand this line of thinking? What about 4-20 don’t you understand?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

He probably loses Howard or UTEP because we are almost good for an unacceptably bad loss with Fitz, even in our good years. And we don’t beat either Nebraska or Iowa because we would be playing even more Fitzball than we did this year.

You don’t understand this line of thinking? What about 4-20 don’t you understand?

I understand haters gonna hate. The man won over 100 games here including a ton where we were at a talent disadvantage. I am not going to rehash the reasons the argument makes no sense because it’s been done by a dozen people multiple times and will get the usual rebuff that he only succeeded because of Saint Hank.

 

[KramerCat91]

I don't know but relative to the Catholicism comment, the reluctance may have been based on bringing in a religious institution, similar to making a decision today on admitting BYU. I am Catholic but I can understand that broad concern. Not coming up with a good example but, stretching here, say there were advertisers for day after pills and the religious leaders didn't want that advertising associated with their game. I don't know, it is simply the point that a religious institution has a few different missions than secular ones.

The history on admitting ND brings up a very interesting concern, however. If the Big Ten did get ND to accept an invite there might be no shortage of angry faculty and students protesting against the "christo facists" or whatever the current perjorative is

Not sure how strongly religious NU and U of C were back then, but NU was the fighting methodists and U of C was founded by the American Baptist Educational Society.

 

[KramerCat91]

I'm not sure I understand point No. 2. Catholicism in Michigan has a strong power base, and I'm not sure of the current demographics, but it is/was the biggest religion in the state.

I grew up a serious Michigan fan. Today I wouldn't call myself a fan, but I generally hope they do well and root hard for them vs. OSU. My favorite story about their hard-core fans involves my neighbor, who was an athlete there. We were recalling the 54-51 game and he said, "You know, my favorite memory of that game is that when your running back dropped that pass on fourth down, the Michigan players went over to him to tell him to tell him great game." I replied, "My favorite memory was looking up at the scoreboard at the end of the game and seeing the score." Typical Michigan right there--they never lose, they just run out of time.

U of Michigan may not have been anti-Catholic but may not have wanted to make it easier for Catholics in Michigan to support a rival, but I think some trustees could have been anti-Catholic given the presence of private protestant universities in Chicagoland in the B10.

 

[techtim72]

I was assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the rejection of ND was of a more recent vintage and not from the early days of the Big Ten.

 

[TheC]

Not delusional about rooting for their team - that's all good - delusional (perhaps not the greatest descriptor) about not accepting their guilt and responsibility for breaking the rules of competition and justifying it by saying no big deal, others do it, etc.

Someone will have to explain to me why doing what Michigan did isn't a big deal. It is hard for me to imagine anything more unfair than illegally obtaining the signs of your opponent. Knowing what plays they are calling? The only thing worse would be hiring Jeff Gilhooly to break kneecaps the day before. I think the coaches in the Big Ten were pissed and forced the Commissioner's hand to issue an in-season punishment.

I'm not saying it's nothing, but just isn't the biggest crime in the world with all that goes on in college sports. They didn't exactly steal the signs. Someone didn't hack into an opponents computer system and steal them. From my understanding, what they did do was break the rules to make it easier to figure the signs out. In many sports, other teams are always trying to figure out the opponent's signs. That's why 3rd base coaches have to go through this whole performance on each pitch because the other team is watching and trying to pick up on something. In this case, Michigan broke the rule by sending someone to scout opponents in person, which, to be honest, I never would have known was illegal until this story broke. I assumed teams sent advanced scouts to all games. They do that in other sports.

So, it is a little slimy and deserves punishment, but it's not the end of all decent society for me. Decent society ended when Penn State was allowed to suit up a football team again.

 

[KramerCat91]

I was assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the rejection of ND was of a more recent vintage and not from the early days of the Big Ten.

I assumed it was a long time ago perhaps a replacement to U of C, but dunno.

 

[KramerCat91]

I was reading a Michigan board, and I saw a post lamenting all the Michigan hate. I thought this would be a good place to collect all the reasons other Big Ten members dislike Michigan.

Below are the reasons I know of:

#1. Michigan opposed letting the Chicago Bears play at Northwestern's stadium. This would have likely provided a nice financial boost the NU athletic department when it would have made a difference, and may have changed the future of NU football.

#2. Michigan made it impossible for ND to join the Big Ten when ND would have gladly done so. Part anti-Catholic bias and part not wanting another competitive team in the conference.

#3. Opposed the inclusion of Michigan State into the conference.

#4 refusing to adhere to league rules limiting football teams to no more than five games and players to three years of eligibility, which caused the Western Conference to kick Michigan out in 1907. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference. Michigan rejoined 9 years later.

 

[TheC]

#4 refusing to adhere to league rules limiting football teams to no more than five games and players to three years of eligibility, which caused the Western Conference to kick Michigan out in 1907. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference. Michigan rejoined 9 years later.

Ok... see... I didn't know this. In that case, **** 'em!!

 

[KramerCat91]

This lays out the history of no. 2 (opposing Notre Dame's membership to Western Conference): https://www.si.com/college/notredam...ependence-mutual-respect-to-mutual-resentment

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

NU fired Fitzgerald for not knowing about locker room behavior that most players deemed to be no big deal or even understandable in the context of team-building.

Michigan's president is screaming in defense of his head coach and taking the Big Ten to court when everybody knows Harbaugh was in on some blatant cheating by members of his staff.

If NU had had that loser president from Michigan for just one decision, Northwestern would be a lot better off.

I heard Michael Schill is so upset about the Michigan response he is going to send them a rambling letter of earnest dissatisfaction.

 

[techtim72]

NU fired Fitzgerald for not knowing about locker room behavior that most players deemed to be no big deal or even understandable in the context of team-building.

Michigan's president is screaming in defense of his head coach and taking the Big Ten to court when everybody knows Harbaugh was in on some blatant cheating by members of his staff.

If NU had had that loser president from Michigan for just one decision, Northwestern would be a lot better off.

I heard Michael Schill is so upset about the Michigan response he is going to send them a rambling letter of earnest dissatisfaction.

You have me there.

 

[techtim72]

This lays out the history of no. 2 (opposing Notre Dame's membership to Western Conference): https://www.si.com/college/notredam...ependence-mutual-respect-to-mutual-resentment

I am glad that my speculation was wrong that there were concerns with ND as a religious institution. Sounds more like a good old personal vendetta that grew and grew.

 

[curdog]

I'm not saying it's nothing, but just isn't the biggest crime in the world with all that goes on in college sports. They didn't exactly steal the signs. Someone didn't hack into an opponents computer system and steal them. From my understanding, what they did do was break the rules to make it easier to figure the signs out. In many sports, other teams are always trying to figure out the opponent's signs. That's why 3rd base coaches have to go through this whole performance on each pitch because the other team is watching and trying to pick up on something. In this case, Michigan broke the rule by sending someone to scout opponents in person, which, to be honest, I never would have known was illegal until this story broke. I assumed teams sent advanced scouts to all games. They do that in other sports.

So, it is a little slimy and deserves punishment, but it's not the end of all decent society for me. Decent society ended when Penn State was allowed to suit up a football team again.

They recorded the signs and the game from the stands. That allowed the guy to look at what was signaled and then what play was ran. That’s not advanced scouting, that’s cheating.

Argue the stupidity of the rule all you want, but it’s a rule. If we all got to pick and choose what rules to follow, the world would be a lot messier place.

And Michigan arguing that harbaugh, a noted control freak, did not know is laughable. Although it is nice to see a university president have their coach’s back. Must be nice.

 

[TheC]

They recorded the signs and the game from the stands. That allowed the guy to look at what was signaled and then what play was ran. That’s not advanced scouting, that’s cheating.

Argue the stupidity of the rule all you want, but it’s a rule. If we all got to pick and choose what rules to follow, the world would be a lot messier place.

And Michigan arguing that harbaugh, a noted control freak, did not know is laughable. Although it is nice to see a university president have their coach’s back. Must be nice.

I'm not arguing is isn't wrong. It was slimy and they should be punished. I think kicking out the coach for the three most important games of the season is appropriate.

I also don't have a problem with a president having the coach's back. I think he's probably wrong, but I can't blame him for taking that public stance until he can't.

Harbaugh is a little scummy and he does scummy things to win. But I hear people yelling that this incident speaks to how terrible an institution the University of Michigan is and how they have no integrity. Eh..... these people may just be Ohio State fans, but still... it's a bit overblown.

Also, I thought teams traded tapes of common opponents in some sports. Am I wrong about this?

 

[techtim72]

I think the question of integrity is fair when the University's President doesn't admit to what is unquestionably bad behavior and then work towards an appropriate resolution.

Trading tapes on the play on the field is not providing the information needed to steal signs. The behavior by Michigan was specifically defined as against the rules. Not even an argument.