2-4. Big win. Need to get to 11-9.

[ricko654321]

I’ll preface by saying, as Chris likes to - it’s a 20 round fight. We took some hits in the first few and got whistle screwed out of one in happy valley. Nonetheless, we are where we are, and we stepped up to get back to 2-4.

Let’s not kid ourselves it’s still an uphill battle. But that was a HUGE and necessary win to keep us in the season. We needed to go 10-5 to get to 11-9 (which I think is what we need to make the tourney given the non conf schedule and results), now the equation is similar but going 9-5 is a lot lot better than needing to go 10-4. Next 5 games schedule remains very difficult. It’s brutal but we probably somehow need to pull 3-2 out of that.

In any event, it wasn’t pretty tonight, but it felt the whole way through like we were the better, smarter, more disciplined, more talented team. We nearly lost it at the FT line, but big players made big plays in the end. Ty Berry found his stroke toward the end of the first half. Martinelli converted on quirky leaners. Nicholson was a beast inside, and aside from FTs played a strong strong game especially on D. Leach was effective as PG against the press. Brooks just did Brooks things, he looked back to his normal self. Nothing special just a ho him 20/10/5 night for him. Ciaravino brought energy. Windham hit a clutch 3. Fitzmorris got abused in the first half and then stepped back up for some huge minutes on D in the second half.

And then after all that, giving up a lead, physical battle the whole way through, Nick found the critical floater to get us the desperately needed W.

They may not paint pictures of it, but every conference W is huge. We need to defend home court.

Onto Michigan. Go Cats!

 

[ricko654321]

I’ll preface by saying, as Chris likes to - it’s a 20 round fight. We took some hits in the first few and got whistle screwed out of one in happy valley. Nonetheless, we are where we are, and we stepped up to get back to 2-4.

Let’s not kid ourselves it’s still an uphill battle. But that was a HUGE and necessary win to keep us in the season. We needed to go 10-5 to get to 11-9 (which I think is what we need to make the tourney given the non conf schedule and results), now the equation is similar but going 9-5 is a lot lot better than needing to go 10-4. Next 5 games schedule remains very difficult. It’s brutal but we probably somehow need to pull 3-2 out of that.

In any event, it wasn’t pretty tonight, but it felt the whole way through like we were the better, smarter, more disciplined, more talented team. We nearly lost it at the FT line, but big players made big plays in the end. Ty Berry found his stroke toward the end of the first half. Martinelli converted on quirky leaners. Nicholson was a beast inside, and aside from FTs played a strong strong game especially on D. Leach was effective as PG against the press. Brooks just did Brooks things, he looked back to his normal self. Nothing special just a ho him 20/10/5 night for him. Ciaravino brought energy. Windham hit a clutch 3. Fitzmorris got abused in the first half and then stepped back up for some huge minutes on D in the second half.

And then after all that, giving up a lead, physical battle the whole way through, Nick found the critical floater to get us the desperately needed W.

They may not paint pictures of it, but every conference W is huge. We need to defend home court.

Onto Michigan. Go Cats!

(PS I can’t wait to go into Maryland and beat them again against their whiny, soft, spoiled fan base. I don’t know why but I feel quite confident that game is one win we can count on coming home in the final stretch. We are just better than them.

And I know @Washington and @Minnesota might appear to be worse teams on paper, but given both those matchups are on the road honestly @Maryland seems like the easiest win left on our schedule.)

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

(PS I can’t wait to go into Maryland and beat them again against their whiny, soft, spoiled fan base. I don’t know why but I feel quite confident that game is one win we can count on coming home in the final stretch. We are just better than them.

And I know @Washington and @Minnesota might appear to be worse teams on paper, but given both those matchups are on the road honestly @Maryland seems like the easiest win left on our schedule.)

MD hoops fans are crazy. The axes are out for Willard but they have no $ to fire him, buy him out and hire a new guy.

 

[ricko654321]

MD hoops fans are crazy. The axes are out for Willard but they have no $ to fire him, buy him out and hire a new guy.

Please keep him there so he can spaz out at home again about random foul calls or other stupid stuff and then we can get another win 1.5 months from now.

Many thanks.

 

[NJcatsfan]

Huge win. One at a time.

 

[techtim72]

MD hoops fans are crazy. The axes are out for Willard but they have no $ to fire him, buy him out and hire a new guy.

There is an underlying belief by Maryland fans that they should be an elite program and win all but the bluest of blueblood games. The truth is the history is good but not that good, particularly in the last decade - but hope springs eternal. Losing the last three to NU? Big time unacceptable. However, I don't think Willard is on the hot seat. They had a great class and have a ton of talent.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I’ll preface by saying, as Chris likes to - it’s a 20 round fight. We took some hits in the first few and got whistle screwed out of one in happy valley. Nonetheless, we are where we are, and we stepped up to get back to 2-4.

Let’s not kid ourselves it’s still an uphill battle. But that was a HUGE and necessary win to keep us in the season. We needed to go 10-5 to get to 11-9 (which I think is what we need to make the tourney given the non conf schedule and results), now the equation is similar but going 9-5 is a lot lot better than needing to go 10-4. Next 5 games schedule remains very difficult. It’s brutal but we probably somehow need to pull 3-2 out of that.

In any event, it wasn’t pretty tonight, but it felt the whole way through like we were the better, smarter, more disciplined, more talented team. We nearly lost it at the FT line, but big players made big plays in the end. Ty Berry found his stroke toward the end of the first half. Martinelli converted on quirky leaners. Nicholson was a beast inside, and aside from FTs played a strong strong game especially on D. Leach was effective as PG against the press. Brooks just did Brooks things, he looked back to his normal self. Nothing special just a ho him 20/10/5 night for him. Ciaravino brought energy. Windham hit a clutch 3. Fitzmorris got abused in the first half and then stepped back up for some huge minutes on D in the second half.

And then after all that, giving up a lead, physical battle the whole way through, Nick found the critical floater to get us the desperately needed W.

They may not paint pictures of it, but every conference W is huge. We need to defend home court.

Onto Michigan. Go Cats!

Agree with everything except that we were the more talented team. Imagine if we had Julian Reese or guards as fast as theirs…

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Agree with everything except that we were the more talented team. Imagine if we had Julian Reese or guards as fast as theirs…

Imagine if they had Brooks Barnhizer or a guy who could score like Martinelli.

 

[CappyNU]

There is an underlying belief by Maryland fans that they should be an elite program and win all but the bluest of blueblood games. The truth is the history is good but not that good, particularly in the last decade - but hope springs eternal. Losing the last three to NU? Big time unacceptable. However, I don't think Willard is on the hot seat. They had a great class and have a ton of talent.

Maryland got screwed by Covid, they tied for the Big Ten title that year and were poised to be a top-4 seed before the tourney was canceled. Turgeon only lasted one more year after that. But you're right, they haven't had a nationally relevant team since Melo Trimble was there in the mid-2010s when they first joined the conference.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Imagine if they had Brooks Barnhizer or a guy who could score like Martinelli.

Fair, of course, but pundits don’t put us 16th in the conference because we have more talent than the teams above us.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Fair, of course, but pundits don’t put us 16th in the conference because we have more talent than the teams above us.

You dont finish in the top 3 of the B1G in back to back years without having at least top half of conference talent. Pundits don’t know jack about NU.

 

[SDakaGordie]

You dont finish in the top 3 of the B1G in back to back years without having at least top half of conference talent. Pundits don’t know jack about NU.

So all those decades of frustration of NU losing - our success now is just that we have way more talent? (Buie developed into our best player ever, of course - but imagine if he could have shot a pull-up jumper as well as a floater)?

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

So all those decades of frustration of NU losing - our success now is just that we have way more talent? (Buie developed into our best player ever, of course - but imagine if he could have shot a pull-up jumper as well as a floater)?

Buie was an All-American level guard, he could go toe-to-toe with anyone in the country. Audige? Arguably the best perimeter defender in the nation. Then there's Barnhizer, the most complete player I’ve seen in a Northwestern uniform. Berry, when he's healthy, is one of the purest shooters in the Big Ten, can light it up from anywhere. Langborg was a darn good scorer as well. And don’t sleep on Martinelli has got a natural touch around the basket and a nose for the ball that you can’t coach. Now, I’m not sitting here telling you NU is the most talented team in the Big Ten, but there’s been some serious talent on this roster these last few years. You don’t rack up wins like we have over the last couple years without talent, period. It’s a different level of basketball under Collins and different caliber of players brought to campus.

 

[ricko654321]

Agree with everything except that we were the more talented team. Imagine if we had Julian Reese or guards as fast as theirs…

Agree to disagree. They are the more athletic team for sure. Doesn't mean they are the more talented or better basketball team.

Reese is a great player for sure, and he's really improved his FT stroke that was impressive. Gillespie 0 is also very quick and tough to guard. I wasn't terribly impressed by Queen last night he seemed sort of like a bull in a china shop at times but clearly he's had better games when you look at his season stats. I still am not convinced they are a better team than us. But obviously our 2-4 conference record thus far would suggest that we have a lot of work to do haha.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

So all those decades of frustration of NU losing - our success now is just that we have way more talent? (Buie developed into our best player ever, of course - but imagine if he could have shot a pull-up jumper as well as a floater)?

You need BOTH a good Coach and strong players to have the relative success we have had. This isn’t all CCC. This isn’t all the players. The recent issue with NU has been the lack of depth compared to the very top programs.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Just being logical, it is really hard to argue that NU's talent the last 3 years has been below the middle third of the conference.
It is easy enough to argue that this year's team is less talented than last year's team.
We lost Buie and Langborg. We got Leach. (Preston vs Fitzmorris is TBD I guess)
Admittedly we picked up two talented freshmen in Windham and Ciaravino, but you can only play 5 at a time.
The current team probably has better depth than last year, in my opinion.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Just being logical, it is really hard to argue that NU's talent the last 3 years has been below the middle third of the conference.
It is easy enough to argue that this year's team is less talented than last year's team.
We lost Buie and Langborg. We got Leach. (Preston vs Fitzmorris is TBD I guess)
Admittedly we picked up two talented freshmen in Windham and Ciaravino, but you can only play 5 at a time.
The current team probably has better depth than last year, in my opinion.

The team is also diminished by a less effective Ty Berry (likely due to his injury).

 

[Vassar69]

(PS I can’t wait to go into Maryland and beat them again against their whiny, soft, spoiled fan base. I don’t know why but I feel quite confident that game is one win we can count on coming home in the final stretch. We are just better than them.

And I know @Washington and @Minnesota might appear to be worse teams on paper, but given both those matchups are on the road honestly @Maryland seems like the easiest win left on our schedule.)

Lighten up, Francis.

Also, Maryland lost on the road on a last second shot in OT. That’s the toss-up of all toss-up outcomes. If they nearly pulled off a road win, then it’s reasonable to assume they’ll be favorites at home.

Indeed, Torvik has them as 9.6 pt favorites if the game was played today. You could still beat them, but knock off all the lame chest puffing.

 

[UpsetAlert]

Lighten up, Francis.

Also, Maryland lost on the road on a last second shot in OT. That’s the toss-up of all toss-up outcomes. If they nearly pulled off a road win, then it’s reasonable to assume they’ll be favorites at home.

Indeed, Torvik has them as 9.6 pt favorites if the game was played today. You could still beat them, but knock off all the lame chest puffing.

How the SC L taste, guy?

 

[SDakaGordie]

I agree the talent comparison discussion is an And/Both - we are both improved talent-wise relative to our past players and Collins has been able to outperform other coaches whose teams have more talent. It comes down to this on offense - the few guys mentioned above are really the only NU players who were / are able to create a mismatch in a 1:1 matchup (and this took Buie and others a few years to grow into). Other teams have these guys in spades, many as freshmen/sophomores. The fact that we can be as effective as we are on offense without as much ability of our players to create these 1:1 disadvantages is clear evidence of our coaching superiority.

 

[UpsetAlert]

I agree the talent comparison discussion is an And/Both - we are both improved talent-wise relative to our past players and Collins has been able to outperform other coaches whose teams have more talent. It comes down to this on offense - the few guys mentioned above are really the only NU players who were / are able to create a mismatch in a 1:1 matchup (and this took Buie and others a few years to grow into). Other teams have these guys in spades, many as freshmen/sophomores. The fact that we can be as effective as we are on offense without as much ability of our players to create these 1:1 disadvantages is clear evidence of our coaching superiority.

Right. We finished 2nd in the Big Ten two years ago and 4th last year. We have talent AND coaching.

Just because guys don’t have 4 or 5 stars next to their name doesn’t mean they don’t have talent. Basketball is very different developmentally, then say, football.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

I ran a bunch of teamcast scenarios on Northwestern's Bartorvik page to see what could get the Cats into the tournament and avoid the play-in game.

If they win every home game plus @ Washington and @Minnesota, that will be 20-11 (B1G 11-9). That scenario forecasts the Cats to be among the "last four byes" cohort. Ohio State and Maryland are away games within reach.

Margin of error is super small but they can get there.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I agree the talent comparison discussion is an And/Both - we are both improved talent-wise relative to our past players and Collins has been able to outperform other coaches whose teams have more talent. It comes down to this on offense - the few guys mentioned above are really the only NU players who were / are able to create a mismatch in a 1:1 matchup (and this took Buie and others a few years to grow into). Other teams have these guys in spades, many as freshmen/sophomores. The fact that we can be as effective as we are on offense without as much ability of our players to create these 1:1 disadvantages is clear evidence of our coaching superiority.

Most teams do not have these guys in spades lol. NU’s top two scorers rank higher than any other teams top two scorers in the big ten outside of Rutgers. NU’s top 3 scorers out rank every other teams top 3 scorers in the big ten. There’s some talent on this team. Boo also had multiple 20 point games as a freshman.

https://bigten.org/mbb/stats/

You don’t need to downplay NU’s talent level to bring Collins up. Increasing the talent level at NU is a major reason for his success here. Good coaches get good players.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Most teams do not have these guys in spades lol. NU’s top two scorers rank higher than any other teams top two scorers in the big ten outside of Rutgers. NU’s top 3 scorers out rank every other teams top 3 scorers in the big ten. There’s some talent on this team.

https://bigten.org/mbb/stats/

You don’t need to downplay NU’s talent level to bring Collins up. Increasing the talent level at NU is a major reason for his success here. Good coaches get good players.

Barney and Mart have to score for us - no one else except typically Leach can regularly score for us. (Berry - please join this group, but we also know who he is by now). It’s largely why their numbers are so high.

We don’t have the top-end offensive talent (one All Big Player in how many years?), and as PPD said, it’s also about depth of talent, and we fall short there too.

You don’t trust the pundits but any average Joe / JoAnn who watches NU and other teams play basketball can also see we have less talent. It’s better than it used to be, for sure, but it’s generally less than our competition.

Our excellent defense offsets our offensive limitations. We are rated highly on defense because our DC is great and HC gets the players to do their best to buy in.

I love our guys, but I call it like most see it - our coaches generally get more out of our players than other coaches get out of theirs (be it developmental or in-game).

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Barney and Mart have to score for us - no one else except typically Leach can regularly score for us. (Berry - please join this group, but we also know who he is by now). It’s largely why their numbers are so high.

We don’t have the top-end offensive talent (one All Big Player in how many years?), and as PPD said, it’s also about depth of talent, and we fall short there too.

You don’t trust the pundits but any average Joe / JoAnn who watches NU and other teams play basketball can also see we have less talent. It’s better than it used to be, for sure, but it’s generally less than our competition.

Our excellent defense offsets our offensive limitations. We are rated highly on defense because our DC is great and HC gets the players to do their best to buy in.

I love our guys, but I call it like most see it - our coaches generally get more out of our players than other coaches get out of theirs (be it developmental or in-game).

We can agree to disagree on the level talent, but let’s not kid ourselves—if you're not in the top half of the Big Ten in terms of talent, you're not finishing in the top three. That's just the reality. Now, I’ve seen enough from this program to know that the talent at NU over the last few years has been at least competitive, and in some cases, I’d argue it's been as good or better that at least half of the teams in this league.

Last year’s offense was a perfect example. When healthy, those guys could flat-out shoot the ball. We’re talking about a squad that was dangerous from behind the arc in Berry and Langborg. An all-American talent in Boo Buie. And all big ten player in Brook Barnhizer. Depth is down a little this year, I’ll admit that. But the fact they’re still competitive with a defense that's keyed in on three main players well, that’s a testament to the coaching and the system and the talent of those 3 players.

Now, let’s talk about Collins as a coach. I’ve been a fan of his offensive sets and defense since day one. People slept on it, but I’ve always seen the value. The defense has been good to great no matter who the assistants are (roster dependent), and that comes down to his philosophy and how he gets guys to buy in. It’s not just X’s and O’s, it's about getting guys to understand that, it takes athleticism (talent) and a high basketball IQ to lock teams down.

And let's not forget about recruiting. Collins is bringing in B1G-level talent to NU who would get minutes anywhere (Boo, Audige, Barnhizer, Martinelli, Langborg, Nance, Law, BMac, Pardon, etc.) and he’s done that consistently. We’ve seen some guys in that list who would start for any of the other teams in this conference. So, no, NU isn’t the most talented team in the B1G this year, but they’re competitive. The talent’s been at least in the top-half in the last couple of seasons.

 

[SDakaGordie]

We can agree to disagree on the level talent, but let’s not kid ourselves—if you're not in the top half of the Big Ten in terms of talent, you're not finishing in the top three. That's just the reality. Now, I’ve seen enough from this program to know that the talent at NU over the last few years has been at least competitive, and in some cases, I’d argue it's been as good or better that at least half of the teams in this league.

Last year’s offense was a perfect example. When healthy, those guys could flat-out shoot the ball. We’re talking about a squad that was dangerous from behind the arc in Berry and Langborg. An all-American talent in Boo Buie. And all big ten player in Brook Barnhizer. Depth is down a little this year, I’ll admit that. But the fact they’re still competitive with a defense that's keyed in on three main players well, that’s a testament to the coaching and the system and the talent of those 3 players.

Now, let’s talk about Collins as a coach. I’ve been a fan of his offensive sets and defense since day one. People slept on it, but I’ve always seen the value. The defense has been good to great no matter who the assistants are (roster dependent), and that comes down to his philosophy and how he gets guys to buy in. It’s not just X’s and O’s, it's about getting guys to understand that, it takes athleticism (talent) and a high basketball IQ to lock teams down.

And let's not forget about recruiting. Collins is bringing in B1G-level talent to NU who would get minutes anywhere (Boo, Audige, Barnhizer, Martinelli, Langborg, Nance, Law, BMac, Pardon, etc.) and he’s done that consistently. We’ve seen some guys in that list who would start for any of the other teams in this conference. So, no, NU isn’t the most talented team in the B1G this year, but they’re competitive. The talent’s been at least in the top-half in the last couple of seasons.

We agree on a lot and disagree on some - thanks for your thoughts. Not sure I totally agree we can’t finish high in BIG with less than average talent when the teams are so bunched up - one game separated 2nd and 9th two years ago. Doing it two years in a row was good evidence of talent, but also very good evidence of Collins’ ability to get Langborg to play within his system.

Last thing I’ll say is that I don’t agree on the other teams not having plenty of guys (guards mostly, of course) who beat our guys 1:1. Just look at our excessive number of fouls - that’s the main cause.