when JV and olah graduate, who is our center? if we can fill that gap then we should b able to sustain what we chart this year.
arent we almost certain we will get a 5Th year bigman?
- Thread starter Turk
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I doubt that it is a sure thing. Would help, but at best a 5th year guy will be a back-up with some flaw (a la JvZ and his yips on FTs). Benson and Pardon will play center for the 2016 Cats.
Not necessarily a guy with a flaw. There could be a guy out there who has a coach moving on or whose program isn't thriving and he wants to be coached up with a shot at helping us get to the dance.
I've been impressed with how this fifth year transfer thing is progressing. More guys are looking for opportunities to develop the next level rather than soldier on.
In football Rudock has improved immensely by going to UM. He might even get drafted and that never was going to happen at Iowa.
i think its probable considering Collins success with 5th years and his vast network.
jvz should just toss it underhand or just throw it up and not worry about his form since he has serious issues with ft. i will admit, his free throw form is pretty. if we are ahead with a few minutes to go then he doesnt need to b on the floor. they will foul him immediately from the 3 minute mark if need be.
We should always be a good landing spot for a player with a year left who is a) not an obvious NBA prospect, b) interested in playing competitive basketball in a high-visibility league and market, and c) looking to get at least part of a top-notch graduate degree for free. Swopshire was the best example in recent years. But the transfer market is really competitive. I think we'd dominate it if we ever got into the tournament.
All true. But the question was about a Center, and they don't grow on trees! NU has been fortunate to find one each of the last 2 seasons.
We have been told that Benson is a center who has back to the basket skills who received a number of Big 10 offers. I think the offer list was 7 Big 10 schools (Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, Purdue, etc.). Pardon brings a different skill set and can run the floor and alter shots with his wing span and athleticism. My guess is that they split time next season. A 5th year senior transfer is a possibility for spot minutes, but I agree with NJ Cat that that type of player has a large potential of flaws in his game or less he would not have left his previous school. The role of the big man 7'0" Olah type is diminishing except for UK and Purdue where centers love to flock to the beautiful environs of West Lafayette, IN and Lexington. You can try to fill in the blanks there to explain why Purdue has three NBA caliber center prospects while other schools struggle to find one.
Take a step back and consider next year's NU's roster: Guard: McIntosh, Lindsey, Ash and Brown and maybe Law plays some minutes at SG; Forward - Falzon, Law, Tap, Rapolas, Lumpkin and Skelly and Center - Benson and Pardon. That leaves one possible open scholarship spot if Vasser finally transfers. In terms of length and athleticism - Law, Falzon, Rapolas and Lindsey make for an impressive group of Fs and SGs or wing players McIntosh provides the leadership of a 3-year starter at PG and both Pardon and Benson will provide the ability of big men who can run the floor. Sounds like a team that can play uptempo and create some TOs and transition bucket opportunities which has been sorely lacking.
Take a step back and consider next year's NU's roster: Guard: McIntosh, Lindsey, Ash and Brown and maybe Law plays some minutes at SG; Forward - Falzon, Law, Tap, Rapolas, Lumpkin and Skelly and Center - Benson and Pardon. That leaves one possible open scholarship spot if Vasser finally transfers. In terms of length and athleticism - Law, Falzon, Rapolas and Lindsey make for an impressive group of Fs and SGs or wing players McIntosh provides the leadership of a 3-year starter at PG and both Pardon and Benson will provide the ability of big men who can run the floor. Sounds like a team that can play uptempo and create some TOs and transition bucket opportunities which has been sorely lacking.
Vassar's scholarship kills us, I hate to say. Most schools would have cut him loose as he doesn't want to play so he can sit out and play somewhere else. Why do we have to accommodate his personal desires when he could be useful to us this year? At any rate, with Law's injury, it sure would be nice to have as many scholarship players as other teams. He must be picky on where he wants to go because he has bb talent but I doubt any big program will pick him up. Good for him if he can milk the scholarship for 4 years and just focus on school.
Pure speculation on your part. None of us know for sure why he decided to transfer, or why he isn't on the current roster. And scholarships at "most schools" are a 4 year commitment on the part of the school so none could "cut him loose". I suggest you stop this personal attack on an NU student.
Yea but you can never have too many big men. My impression is that certainly Pardon is athletic enough to comfortably play the 4. Maybe Benson and a theoretical transfer too. While we don't necessarily need another guy, if we could get one that would be good, cause otherwise we will be undersized up front next year.
I think Vassar did the right thing. If Collins doesn't want him, Vassar has every right to cash in his promised scholarship.
Even if this wasn't the case, I'm ok with Vassar squeezing every class he can out of NU. When it comes to students doing bad things to a university, sticking around and taking classes toward a degree should be at the bottom of the list.
Absolutely. Don't recruits kids if you're not sure about giving them 4 years. I'm unabashedly proud of Vassar for turning the "we're gonna run off this kid" strategy on its head.
show some proof he was run off. i heard differently. though my source isn't 100% spot on always. i also heard vasser is considering staying all four. i wonder how that would play out?
If he left voluntarily--and by that, I mean that he was not run off--why would he retain his scholarship? Furthermore, let's say he wanted out and couldn't find a new school. Why would he come back to Evanston? Based on his itinerant HS career, this guy is very comfortable with moving around, but he stuck around for his second year at NU.
i can't say i know for certain anything. the story i got was that vasser was really unhappy about his playing time last season and collins wouldn't commit more for this season, so he asked to leave. then when he wanted to come back in the fall, collins said no, forget it. why he still has his scholarship i'm not sure.
Playing time is the #1 method of running off guys. You tell Kale, I mean Chier, I mean whomever that they'll basically never get the run that they want and off they go, convinced that they would be glorified practice players, if not worse: pariahs whom everybody sees as obstacles to the team's success because they won't go away and open up a spot.
And that honesty is best for both parties. It has worked out fabulously for Kale: he's the main man at Drake. It also worked for Chier: he (finally) moved down in level of competition and at least has a chance of getting playing time. And what if what the player really wants is a great education? Maybe its working just fine for Vassar.
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Except that if he is going to cash in then his part oft he deal is to work with the team and be on the practice floor unless he is injured (at which point, if it was bad enough he could be transferred to a different kind of scholarship) IF he is not good enough to play, so be it but he then he still has a responsibility to be fodder for practice. If he is not doing that, he is not keeping up his end.
there is an NCAA rule I believe that means you must work somewhere - equipment, grounds crew, cafeteria, etc... i think same hapens if someone si medically DQ'd. they don't just get free school - you have to work 8-20 weeks somewhere on campus. i think at least. can anyone else confirm?
Personal attack, my arse. Simple fact - he has a schollie and he is not playing, practicing, etc. If not with the grace of the athletic department, he loses the scholarship administratively. The whole thing is weird. But you are the one misconstruing reality.
I do know a few facts: 4 year scholarships are still contracts including code of conduct provision and in compensation for playing. Absent a medical issue, a player that refuses to participate, whether to transfer or focus on education, violates that contract. Athletic department can, and does, take away schollies.
What happened here is ripe for speculation and conjecture as long as the parties choose not to divulge. Vasser is a public figure as it pertains to his basketball career and NU is in the public eye as it pertains to fielding teams in high revenue sports.
You want privacy? Go to school on an educational scholarship and play intermurals.
No, cue VaCat appearance.
He was not run off. I know that 100%. Pay no attention to those who want to rip on Collins or otherwise speak silly.
The NCAA allowed multi-year grants in 2012 and many Big 10 schools including NU immediately implemented this policy.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7528614/some-big-ten-offering-4-year-scholarships
Who's trying to pick a fight? Lol I'm still waiting on all those many long-term reasons our OOC is hurting us...
Would surmise that Tap and KA got pretty much the same thing from CC and the staff re playing time.
KA left and Tap decided to stay.
Seems likely that KA wanted to be the man, whereas Tap was willing to bide his time and work his way into the lineup and was OK contributing off the bench.
KA is avg'ing 17.1 ppg for Drake but only 4.3 rpg; w/ his scoring avg. helped by 3 big scoring games of 41, 23 and 30 pts against lesser competition.
Against P5 competition had mixed results - 3 pts against DePaul, but 14 against Iowa.
While Tap had a rough start (esp. on D), his defensive play of late has been a good bit better (has done a good job of staying in front of his man) and has scored in the paint from time to time (don't know how KA has been doing on D).
Tap's 3 pt shooting % is also higher than KA's (the player leading in that category for the 'Cats being Lumpkin) and despite fewer minutes of play per game, is avg'ing 2.9 rpg.
While I think that would be ideal, it's hardly a sure thing. We'd have to get someone preferably decent to actually want to come.
But, yeah hopefully we get a 5th year big.
Benson may be 4 stars but he is raw as eff (Michael Thompson, the Duke transfer was a McD AA and never ready, and don't mention Kyle Rowley). Ideally, he redshirts based on what I've heard of him (and I'm generally not a fan of red shirting). Pardon looks athletic but he's undersized and you generally don't go from redshirt to superstar or even decent starter in the space as one year.
If we could land another JvZ ft shooting woes and all, I'd be thrilled.
Right, I think the coaches would have been okay if Taphorn left. They effectively ran off guys and only one stayed because he didn't have delusions of grandeur. That's the best part of trying to run off guys: you just take advantage of their egos.
'Delusions of grandeur' must be the reason for Abrahamson's 17ppg this season.
I think he would have averaged 17 for a Carmody-coached team. He did not fit Collins' approach.
I think it's great it's worked out for him. Your apparent bitterness towards kids that choose to leave when told to leave is weird to me.
There's a much more positive view to these types of situations than what you've presented. It's not 'taking advantage of their egos', it's having an honest grown-up conversation, and kids making the resulting decision that's best for them.
I would imagine, though I can't be sure, that ccc is happy for Abrahamson. If he has any thought on his situation, it's along the lines of 'man, we could use another wing on this roster.'
Are you kidding? I wrote above, "I'm unabashedly proud of Vassar for turning the 'we're gonna run off this kid' strategy on its head."
Did you miss that?
ie Vasser. I agree, you want guys to leave if they are pushed in that direction. Their subsequent success is no reason to be bitter towards them.
You need to re-read. I said that Kale would have been a success in Carmody's system. He probably could have averaged 20 with Carmody. Kale definitely would have had open looks in the Princeton offense. That's not a knock on Kale. It's just the reality of Collins wanting a different type of player. Isn't it obvious why Collins pushed him and other unwanted holdovers to depart? They just didn't fit what Collins wanted to do. It's no different from football when a 3-4 defensive coordinator won't have any use for 4-3 DTs that lack the size of a 3-4 NT.
Why would anybody be "bitter" at the kid?
I was responding to the usage of the phrases 'delusions of grandeur' and 'take advantage of their egos.' Nothing's being used against any of these kids.
You're implying some adversarial relationship that I don't think is there. Vasser isn't some martyr for staying at NU and Abrahamson isn't some trailblazer for thriving and Tap isn't some pushover for contributing. (I doubt he was told the same things Abrahamson was, for what it's worth, but his name is in this conversation, so I'll keep him here.)
They're three kids who, potentially faced with unique situations, made their own decision.
That's exactly how coaches manipulate kids into transferring, by appealing to their egos. "Sorry, kid, you will never start for us. Don't you want to see if you can get some run elsewhere?" Remember, these kids were stars in H.S. and usually recruited by multiple D-I schools. Many of them think they're going to be pros some day.
Remind me, when did I say that Vassar is a "martyr" or that Taphorn is a "pushover" or that Kale is a "trailblazer?" You're really befuddled. Please see a doctor immediately.
I saw Kale's performance against DePaul and it was miserable. He doesn't match up with the kind of athletes you face on power conference teams. He's a good fit for Drake, and the guy can definitely get hot from three point range when he gets open looks. We saw that at Northwestern.
