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BC new coach at Holy Cross!

Re: How did a ...


Originally posted by clarificationcat:
It got started with the bad blood and couldn't stomach coaching post, as long as you are asking. The person posting that had to know that it would start all this crap all over again.
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Trying not to get drawn into this again, and that may be your impression, but I was responding to someone's hope that NU would play Holy Cross. I happen to know that my statements were factually correct. Maybe I should have withheld them from this board, but it is first hand knowledge. The Carmodys did not feel well-treated over the events leading to his firing and he did need a break from coaching as a result of it. I did not think that these facts were inflammatory. And obviously JP doesn't feel he mistreated anyone (as far as I know at least I HOPE he doesn't feel that way). The difference is I have no first hand knowledge from JP like I do from the departed party.
 
Re: How did a ...

As a new guy to the board, I'm already tired of the Carmody vs Collins BS.
 
Re: How did a ...

Originally posted by Kelly_32:
As a new guy to the board, I'm already tired of the Carmody vs Collins BS.
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You'll soon develop a sixth sense of what threads are about to devolve into that fight and how to avoid them. This one was pretty obviously heading that way.
 
Re: JP won't take that chance!!

Ridiculous reasoning from the Carmody huggers in this thread.

THE MAN WAS GIVEN 13 YEARS AND DID NOT DELIVER.

Now people are arguing he should have been given 14 years. Or they are saying he should have been cut loose before his final year. Can you imagine how much bitching there would be from the Carmody hugging crowd had that happened after a 4th straight NIT season (which the Carmody hugging crowd seem to believe is an accomplishment worth retaining a coach)? I'm sorry - 4 straight NIT's or not, with 13 years of ZERO NCAA appearances, it means zero. I don't care what our history is, I don't care what our facilities are. It's not working, it's not good enough, you move on.

NU treated Carmody more than fine. We stayed by him for 13 years of futility and mediocrity and paid him millions. And for what? Was he really worth it? Make no mistake, Bill Carmody is a great X's and O's coach and he elevated this program. But, he was not the man for the job that needed to be done. He didn't get it done, it just wasn't enough, he should have been fired much earlier, and yet people are bitching because Phillips gave him that final year. Sheesh...
 
Re: JP won't take that chance!!

Oh for f*ck's sake. Nobody in this thread is saying that Carmody should have been kept on for another year or anything like that. The question was why there's bad blood between BC and JP. The question has been answered. The end. If people don't like the answer it's nobody's fault but their own.
 
Re: JP won't take that chance!!

OK I acknowledge only one poster (and one who has demonstrated a tendency for insanity) has been arguing that Carmody should have been kept on for another year (though you and I know there others who are now wisely keeping quiet who have argued as well that he should not have been fired).

The question was answered, but unsatisfactorily. If there is bad blood, and it's because of the reasoning that has been offered here, I do not blame myself for the poor answer, I do not blame JP, but I blame BC and the fans that think he deserved better.
 
Looking forward to the NCAA committee pairing NU against Holy Cross in the NCAA tourney in the coming years.
 
Re: How did a ...

Agreed. about Astro's post.

I made some posts in the latter part of the BC run at NU suggesting that it might be good for Coach Carmody to simply step away from NU, recharge his battery and then decide what would be best for HIS future. Thirteen years is a long time to be in any job, and It had to be stressful at NU and often quite discouraging. Even moreso to the extent that he and JP were somewhat incompatible.

So, now he's had that time off, and apparently believes he still has coaching in his blood. Good for him; good for Holy Cross; and, I think, good for Northwestern to have a changing of the guard.
 
I don't understand why people hate this guy? The guy made me a Wildcat fan. He is a great coach. Like all coaches, he lacked a few things, and imo, his was his recruiting. He just didn't have the energy and commitment to be 24/5 much less 24/7 on it.

His last year sucked, but everyone should admit that injuries really did kill that season. The injuries were actually quite strange. Really bad luck. Otherwise, we were a NIT type team. The reason why he was fired was because Phillips wanted a NCAA team. I understand that, but that doesn't mean BC sucked.

I wish him the best.
 
Re: JP won't take that chance!!


Originally posted by EvanstonCat:
OK I acknowledge only one poster (and one who has demonstrated a tendency for insanity) has been arguing that Carmody should have been kept on for another year (though you and I know there others who are now wisely keeping quiet who have argued as well that he should not have been fired).

The question was answered, but unsatisfactorily. If there is bad blood, and it's because of the reasoning that has been offered here, I do not blame myself for the poor answer, I do not blame JP, but I blame BC and the fans that think he deserved better.
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I know it's better for my sanity to not respond, but I guess I just can't allow myself to let you declare victory/gloat for no reason in every thread on this board.

I suspect I represent a decent amount of folks with the following opinion: I did not want Carmody fired. The 4 year NIT run was great and I believe we could have continued to improve upon that. I continue to root for the Cats and hope Coach Collins does well. While, there are some reasons for optimism, it is not clear by any means at this point that we are better off because of the coaching change.

"others who are now wisely keeping quiet"? WTF is that supposed to mean? Because reaching the CBI Bubble with a few games left was so amazing? And I know you will go to recruiting, but guess what, all we have right now is high school rankings. I haven't seen convincing evidence any of these guys will be better than Vukusic, Coble, Shurna, or Crawford. I hope they will, but don't act like its a slam dunk.

Again, I am rooting for Coach Collins and the Cats, but the idea that anyone who was in favor of retaining Carmody is some kind of moron who must repent their sins is pure poppycock.

This post was edited on 3/21 7:02 PM by wickerpark wildcat
 
Re: JP won't take that chance!!


Originally posted by wickerpark wildcat:

Originally posted by EvanstonCat:
OK I acknowledge only one poster (and one who has demonstrated a tendency for insanity) has been arguing that Carmody should have been kept on for another year (though you and I know there others who are now wisely keeping quiet who have argued as well that he should not have been fired).

The question was answered, but unsatisfactorily. If there is bad blood, and it's because of the reasoning that has been offered here, I do not blame myself for the poor answer, I do not blame JP, but I blame BC and the fans that think he deserved better.
Click to expand...
I know it's better for my sanity to not respond, but I guess I just can't allow myself to let you declare victory/gloat for no reason in every thread on this board.

I suspect I represent a decent amount of folks with the following opinion: I did not want Carmody fired. The 4 year NIT run was great and I believe we could have continued to improve upon that. I continue to root for the Cats and hope Coach Collins does well. While, there are some reasons for optimism, it is not clear by any means at this point that we are better off because of the coaching change.

"others who are now wisely keeping quiet"? WTF is that supposed to mean? Because reaching the CBI Bubble with a few games left was so amazing? And I know you will go to recruiting, but guess what, all we have right now is high school rankings. I haven't seen convincing evidence any of these guys will be better than Vukusic, Coble, Shurna, or Crawford. I hope they will, but don't act like its a slam dunk.

Again, I am rooting for Coach Collins and the Cats, but the idea that anyone who was in favor of retaining Carmody is some kind of moron who must repent their sins is pure poppycock.

This post was edited on 3/21 7:02 PM by wickerpark wildcat
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You can also add Demps and Olah to that list of Carmody recruits. They're only our top scorers, rebounders, and playmakers. With Taphorn making 50% of his three-pointers this year, one wonders how well he would have scored in Carmody's offense.

That said, I do think the future is bright under Collins and was upset with Carmody's inexcusable, half-assed effort in recruiting guys like Law and Kaminsky.
 
Re: JP won't take that chance!!


Originally posted by wickerpark wildcat:

Originally posted by EvanstonCat:
OK I acknowledge only one poster (and one who has demonstrated a tendency for insanity) has been arguing that Carmody should have been kept on for another year (though you and I know there others who are now wisely keeping quiet who have argued as well that he should not have been fired).

The question was answered, but unsatisfactorily. If there is bad blood, and it's because of the reasoning that has been offered here, I do not blame myself for the poor answer, I do not blame JP, but I blame BC and the fans that think he deserved better.
Click to expand...
I know it's better for my sanity to not respond, but I guess I just can't allow myself to let you declare victory/gloat for no reason in every thread on this board.

I suspect I represent a decent amount of folks with the following opinion: I did not want Carmody fired. The 4 year NIT run was great and I believe we could have continued to improve upon that. I continue to root for the Cats and hope Coach Collins does well. While, there are some reasons for optimism, it is not clear by any means at this point that we are better off because of the coaching change.

"others who are now wisely keeping quiet"? WTF is that supposed to mean? Because reaching the CBI Bubble with a few games left was so amazing? And I know you will go to recruiting, but guess what, all we have right now is high school rankings. I haven't seen convincing evidence any of these guys will be better than Vukusic, Coble, Shurna, or Crawford. I hope they will, but don't act like its a slam dunk.

Again, I am rooting for Coach Collins and the Cats, but the idea that anyone who was in favor of retaining Carmody is some kind of moron who must repent their sins is pure poppycock.

This post was edited on 3/21 7:02 PM by wickerpark wildcat
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Well, you just proved my point that there are others that think Carmody should have been kept on.

You make some fair points, but I disagree that Carmody should have been given any more time and do not think NU or JP treated him poorly. I think the program is much better off with Collins now at the helm. I'll just leave it at that.
 
Originally posted by Turk:
I don't understand why people hate this guy? The guy made me a Wildcat fan. He is a great coach. Like all coaches, he lacked a few things, and imo, his was his recruiting. He just didn't have the energy and commitment to be 24/5 much less 24/7 on it.

His last year sucked, but everyone should admit that injuries really did kill that season. The injuries were actually quite strange. Really bad luck. Otherwise, we were a NIT type team. The reason why he was fired was because Phillips wanted a NCAA team. I understand that, but that doesn't mean BC sucked.

I wish him the best.
Click to expand...
No one hates the guy Turk. I thank him for his contributions to the Wildcat program. He elevated the program to a level higher than any other I have experienced in my two and a half decades of following NU. But, he was not going to get us to the promised land. He was given 13 years, and if hadn't made it by then, he wasn't ever going to. He was a great game day coach, but he couldn't or rather did not want to recruit at a level that was required to be successful in this league.

I wish him the best, I really do. But 13 years was way more than we needed to see his body of work, and your point was spot on. We do not want an NIT team. We want to go to the dance. And so JP did the right thing (though a couple years late in my opinion) and moved on.

I have no ill will against Carmody. I'm just surprised that anyone thought there was bad blood. If there is, I would be surprised and I don't think it would be warranted, but I'm not Bill Carmody.
 
Originally posted by EvanstonCat:

Originally posted by Turk:
I don't understand why people hate this guy? The guy made me a Wildcat fan. He is a great coach. Like all coaches, he lacked a few things, and imo, his was his recruiting. He just didn't have the energy and commitment to be 24/5 much less 24/7 on it.

His last year sucked, but everyone should admit that injuries really did kill that season. The injuries were actually quite strange. Really bad luck. Otherwise, we were a NIT type team. The reason why he was fired was because Phillips wanted a NCAA team. I understand that, but that doesn't mean BC sucked.

I wish him the best.
Click to expand...
No one hates the guy Turk. I thank him for his contributions to the Wildcat program.

I wish him the best, I really do.

I have no ill will against Carmody.
Click to expand...
HA! There's not enough wood in a redwood for your nose, Pinocchio. I seem to recall you calling him a poisonous tumor that needed to be cut out of the program and other niceties.
 
POISONOUS tumor?

Originally posted by Gladeskat:

Originally posted by EvanstonCat:

Originally posted by Turk:
I don't understand why people hate this guy? The guy made me a Wildcat fan. He is a great coach. Like all coaches, he lacked a few things, and imo, his was his recruiting. He just didn't have the energy and commitment to be 24/5 much less 24/7 on it.

His last year sucked, but everyone should admit that injuries really did kill that season. The injuries were actually quite strange. Really bad luck. Otherwise, we were a NIT type team. The reason why he was fired was because Phillips wanted a NCAA team. I understand that, but that doesn't mean BC sucked.

I wish him the best.
Click to expand...
No one hates the guy Turk. I thank him for his contributions to the Wildcat program.

I wish him the best, I really do.

I have no ill will against Carmody.
Click to expand...
HA! There's not enough wood in a redwood for your nose, Pinocchio. I seem to recall you calling him a poisonous tumor that needed to be cut out of the program and other niceties.
Click to expand...
A POISONOUS tumor? Did you (or he) mean "cancerous"? OTOH, a snake could be called poisonous (not that I think any of this should apply to BC).
 
Re: POISONOUS tumor?

Feli, have you considered that Carmody was offered a 5 year deal with a low buyout that you suggested Phillips give him, but turned it down because either him or his agent felt that it would be safer to take a 3 year deal with a much higher buyout. Unless you're Phillips, Carmody, an athletic department lawyer, or Carmody's agent, you can't answer that. So you just keep going with your blah blah blah Phillips is a jerk, Fitz is bad coach, Collins is behind schedule... and whatever else bad you have to say about the athletic department that is 99% of the time negative.

Here's one for you: Carmody didn't want to recruit so he knew it was only a matter of time that he got fired, so he took the deal with the highest possible buyout. Then he alienated Coble so he would quit. He suspended Cobb for a season. Before that, he alienated Jimmy Maley, Bernard Cote, and Michael (not Juice) Thompson so they would all quit. Then Carmody could take his gigantic buyout, go somewhere else, get a contract with a big buy out, and quit again. Notice, Carmody didn't coach for 2 years after he was fired. The only reasonable explanation is that his salary at the new school would go against the buyout at NU. He didn't want to coach/recruit. He just wanted to get paid.

Making stuff up on the internet is so much fun.... not.
 
Originally posted by Gladeskat:


Originally posted by EvanstonCat:


Originally posted by Turk:
I don't understand why people hate this guy? The guy made me a Wildcat fan. He is a great coach. Like all coaches, he lacked a few things, and imo, his was his recruiting. He just didn't have the energy and commitment to be 24/5 much less 24/7 on it.

His last year sucked, but everyone should admit that injuries really did kill that season. The injuries were actually quite strange. Really bad luck. Otherwise, we were a NIT type team. The reason why he was fired was because Phillips wanted a NCAA team. I understand that, but that doesn't mean BC sucked.

I wish him the best.
Click to expand...
No one hates the guy Turk. I thank him for his contributions to the Wildcat program.

I wish him the best, I really do.

I have no ill will against Carmody.
Click to expand...
HA! There's not enough wood in a redwood for your nose, Pinocchio. I seem to recall you calling him a poisonous tumor that needed to be cut out of the program and other niceties.


HA! Glades you kill me. That was a METAPHOR. My point was that like a tumor, you have to get rid of him, before the program could become healthy again.

I really do not wish ill will against Carmody, unless, however, what realcatfan is saying is the truth. That sounds a lot more viable than all the groundless accusations being launched at Jim Phillips.

Jim Phillips has been great for NU Sports. He got rid of Carmody and put in Collins. He arranged our marketing campaign with Chicago and with Wrigley. He raised the money to get our new $220m state of the art athletic facility funded - a game changer for the football program and possibly other sports as well.

All JP haters are either insane or they hate NU. They should eat drano and die.
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Originally posted by EvanstonCat:

Originally posted by Turk:
I don't understand why people hate this guy? The guy made me a Wildcat fan. He is a great coach. Like all coaches, he lacked a few things, and imo, his was his recruiting. He just didn't have the energy and commitment to be 24/5 much less 24/7 on it.

His last year sucked, but everyone should admit that injuries really did kill that season. The injuries were actually quite strange. Really bad luck. Otherwise, we were a NIT type team. The reason why he was fired was because Phillips wanted a NCAA team. I understand that, but that doesn't mean BC sucked.

I wish him the best.
Click to expand...
No one hates the guy Turk. I thank him for his contributions to the Wildcat program. He elevated the program to a level higher than any other I have experienced in my two and a half decades of following NU. But, he was not going to get us to the promised land. He was given 13 years, and if hadn't made it by then, he wasn't ever going to. He was a great game day coach, but he couldn't or rather did not want to recruit at a level that was required to be successful in this league.

I wish him the best, I really do. But 13 years was way more than we needed to see his body of work, and your point was spot on. We do not want an NIT team. We want to go to the dance. And so JP did the right thing (though a couple years late in my opinion) and moved on.

I have no ill will against Carmody. I'm just surprised that anyone thought there was bad blood. If there is, I would be surprised and I don't think it would be warranted, but I'm not Bill Carmody.
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Actually, I kind of miss the NIT. Don't you?
 
NO. It's nice that everyone is wishing BC best wishes but I'm wondering when he is going to thank NU for giving him his first high profile coaching gig and millions of cash for 13 seasons. His silence is deafening.
 
I don't disagree with Willy.

A million bucks a year, or thereabouts, is a gift from God and the Carmody's should genuflect every time they see a purple N.

He can hate his former boss but love his time as coach, the relationships he struck with his players and the successes he helped to create for the team which are unmatched in modern NU basketball. He's sufficiently clever to know how to speak about that publicly without crapping on the AD and looking small.

I'm in the camp of "if you weren't going to fire him when you came in, why fire him now?" which is by no means the major reason I'm not a big fan of this AD. And, in the last couple threads that have been removed or edited down there has been zero-zilch-nada new from either side. Same old, same old.

But with all that said, the simplicity of Willy's point is legit. If someone paid be a million bucks a year for 14 years I'd find a way to say thanks. Even if I wanted to take a ball peen hammer to my former boss' forehead.
 
Originally posted by EvanstonCat:

He was given 13 years, and if hadn't made it by then, he wasn't ever going to.
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Rock solid argument. Of course Roy Williams spent 15 years at Kansas without winning a NCAA Championship and yet UNC took a chance on him. He then won 2 in his 1st 6 years there.

And don't tell me there's no comparison between winning a championship at Kansas and making the tournament at NU... given the programs' histories, they are totally comparable.
 
Re: JP won't take that chance!!

Originally posted by Styre:
Phillips should have fired Carmody after 2009, NIT or not. He wanted him gone, he should have pulled the trigger.

Alternately, he should have afforded Carmody the full support of the athletic department when he didn't fire him.

Also -- none of this matters at this point.


This post was edited on 3/19 1:11 PM by Styre
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Pretty much this.

JP did not favors to BC and the program w/ the annual is this going to be the year BC gets fired hanging over.

Certainly did not help recruiting when players are looking for coaching stability.

I'm one of the few who think the 'Cats would have/will make it to Tourney whether or not a coaching change was made (and I actually prefer CC's style of play).

Anyhow congrats to BC and hopefully he bring on a former NU player who wants to get into coaching to his staff.
 
Originally posted by wickerpark wildcat:


Originally posted by EvanstonCat:


He was given 13 years, and if hadn't made it by then, he wasn't ever going to.
Click to expand...
Rock solid argument. Of course Roy Williams spent 15 years at Kansas without winning a NCAA Championship and yet UNC took a chance on him. He then won 2 in his 1st 6 years there.

And don't tell me there's no comparison between winning a championship at Kansas and making the tournament at NU... given the programs' histories, they are totally comparable.
Click to expand...
You surely must be joking. But, then that you believe this tells me all that I have to know about why we have two completely different views of the situation.
 
The Crusaders are now my 2nd favorite team...

Great to see Coach BC back in the game. I was always a big fan, if anything because I loved the narrative of trying to "moneyball" the competition with an alternate approach, and I appreciated his Larry David style antics. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" may have well been the theme for every one of his opening season pressers, which for snarky people like me is manna from heaven. However, for guys like our AD, I can empathize why his brand of dry/anti-comedy may not be best for drumming up a brand.

Anyhoo, since we got to re-live the Carmody stay or go conversation yet one more time, perhaps there's nothing left here to mention. However, I'll share this fun nugget - Jimmy Maley went on the Holy Cross fan board to talk about the hire: http://s2.excoboard.com/Crossports/33741/2446319. h/t to WildcatMN at InsideNU - (original thread: http://www.insidenu.com/2015/3/18/8252211/bill-carmody-named-head-coach-at-holy-cross-per-espn#comments) for spotting it was Jimmy Maley based on that fact that Maley got his degree at Holy Cross after leaving NU.

And yes, Holy Cross has a fanboard that I spent time on.



Jimmy Maley provides some insight on CBC...
 
Re: The Crusaders are now my 2nd favorite team...

Funny to go from here to a message board that is over-the-moon excited to get Bill Carmody.
 
Jimmy is now at....

Originally posted by macarthur31:
I'll share this fun nugget - Jimmy Maley went on the Holy Cross fan board to talk about the hire: http://s2.excoboard.com/Crossports/33741/2446319. h/t to WildcatMN at InsideNU - (original thread: http://www.insidenu.com/2015/3/18/8252211/bill-carmody-named-head-coach-at-holy-cross-per-espn#comments) for spotting it was Jimmy Maley based on that fact that Maley got his degree at Holy Cross after leaving NU.
Click to expand...
Yes, interesting read...in case you are wondering what is Jimmy up to these days, click link...



Where is JM now....
 
Re: The Crusaders are now my 2nd favorite team...

Originally posted by Styre:
Funny to go from here to a message board that is over-the-moon excited to get Bill Carmody.
Click to expand...
My favorite bit is the chatter about how calling him "BC" is confusing to fans of Holy Cross alumnus Bob Cousy. How many schools have worse basketball traditions than we do?
 
Re: The Crusaders are now my 2nd favorite team...

^Not many, considering Holy Cross also has a national championship under their belts!

Anyway, they also don't like BC confusion with Boston College, their ancient rivals.

This post was edited on 3/24 6:55 PM by Styre
 
HC BC

Originally posted by JournCat:
Originally posted by Styre:
Funny to go from here to a message board that is over-the-moon excited to get Bill Carmody.
Click to expand...
My favorite bit is the chatter about how calling him "BC" is confusing to fans of Holy Cross alumnus Bob Cousy. How many schools have worse basketball traditions than we do?
Click to expand...
As I understood, it's WAY more complicated than that...after graduating from HC (Holy Cross) BC had a successful long career playing for the NBA's BC...after which, he went on to become the MBB HC at BC (the college)....

Hence HC's BC became BC's HC!!

It gets worse....At the time BC was HC's most hated rival! (both were roughly at the same BkB level then).

To recap, HC's BC, after a career with the NBA's BC, became BC's HC, even though HC hated BC.

HC fans who would rather Bill C. not be called HC BC definitely have a point!

P.S. A proposal to call Bill C. "CBC" was objected to because it'd create confusion with a TV network. It's a tough world out there!
 
EvanstonCat said:
Re: JP won't take that chance!!

Do you know something (some of) the rest of us don't? What was exactly classless and gutless about the process? And what did Carmody deserve that he didn't get? I know he got something he got that he didn't deserve (13 years), but I'd love to hear what you mean. Might change my perspective on the whole situation.

This all said, good luck to Carmody and wish him all the best. Hope the Carmody huggers (and Phillips haters) can finally lay down their arms and be at peace.

BTW, Doc, how much you wanna bet NU gets to the Dance before Holy Cross?
Click to expand...

Which side of the bet were you interested in EvanstonCat?
 
willycat said:
First don't miss you one bit. Still it's sick that you feel the need to post and gloat about the NU kids not making the NIT. You are one sick puppy.
Click to expand...
Haha I don't wanna get in the way of the indignation wagon, but that was posted about a year ago.
 
EvanstonCat said:
Re: JP won't take that chance!!

Ridiculous reasoning from the Carmody huggers in this thread.

THE MAN WAS GIVEN 13 YEARS AND DID NOT DELIVER.

Now people are arguing he should have been given 14 years.
Click to expand...

Here's my view on that. Carmody should have been fired after 2006/07 or after 2007/08. But once NU kept him through that, it made less sense to drop him after 2012/13 and it seemed a little short sighted given his years of service. It seems pretty likely we would have been alive and well again in the Big Ten by now if Carmody had stayed.

BUT

Seeing as Carmody was indeed dismissed after 2012/13, the Collins trajectory looks good because the talent just improves every year. There's no denying it. I'm concerned that the offense is putrid, but the trajectory is above and beyond what Carmody would have done here. Now Collins has to deliver and if he doesn't deliver within 8 years, then he ought to go like Carmody should have been handed his walking papers after 2007/08.

How's that for a complication argument? Carmody should have been fired sooner but not after 2012/13 since he wasn't fired earlier. Collins has more potential now than Carmody did.
 
wickerpark wildcat said:
Oh, I don't know. I think its nice when people's arrogant bluster is recorded for posterity.
Click to expand...

It's not arrogant bluster, it's just faulty prediction against the unlikely. That a 13-19 Holy Cross team would make it to the Dance as a 9 seed in their tourney is surely a feat against the odds. To my point - we are a better team and remain a better team. We would kill Holy Cross. And had we been in the Patriot League, we very likely would be in the Dance.

And we are WAY better off with him there and not at NU.

Hats off to Carmody for overcoming the odds and getting his team into the Dance (if you call the play in game part of the Dance) and proving me wrong. Glad you can find smug content in that.
 
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