Canyon Barry visit?

[IGNORE2]

Yeah, he was only the Player of the Year in the State of Washington, ahead of a couple of highly ranked 4* players......

You're right, we beat out all the big boys here. Rivals, 247, ESPN all secretly ranked him a five star and the next Lebrun but national security required top secret access to know. I only found out because I hacked Hilary's server.

Should we start with a definition? Unheralded to me is not heavily recruited, not a plethora of Power offers.

 

[NJCat]

Should we start with a definition? Unheralded to me is not heavily recruited, not a plethora of Power offers.

You can have your definition. To me, Player of the Year with an offer from Washington, a rising Pac 12 team, is pretty notable. And he was an early commit who made it pretty clear that academics were a key priority.

 

[IGNORE2]

Yeah, he was only the Player of the Year in the State of Washington, ahead of a couple of highly ranked 4* players......

I looked for a historical list of Washington's player of the year. It's such a hot topic, Mr. Google was no help. I'm sure if I'm wrong in my guess that the honor alone is not an historical indicator of a great player, one of you sweet people will point out that fact with a link. Meanwhile, I'll stick with the coaching staffs around the country and the evaluators for the various services and label Brown unheralded. If he becomes a star, it will be a recruiting gem by CCC, not a victory over other programs. And both are equally important. Still unheralded.

 

[IGNORE2]

You can have your definition. To me, Player of the Year with an offer from Washington, a rising Pac 12 team, is pretty notable. And he was an early commit who made it pretty clear that academics were a key priority.

An offer from rising programs WU and NU! How did we keep Duke, Kansas, Stanford from poaching him? Wow - you should become a HS bball talent evaluator.

 

[backdoorpass]

Because if Canyon Barry can't elevate College of Charleston to better than an 8-10 record and quarterfinal conference tourney loss in the CAA, he's not going to be a transformative player at NU.

You've tried to make this point twice. But the reason why Canyon Barry couldn't elevate his team above 8-10 in conference is because he wasn't playing. He injured his shoulder on Jan 2nd (when the team was 1-0 in conference), and he was out for the rest of the season. However, while Barry was playing, the College of Charleston beat 3 top 100 kenpom teams--which is the same number of top 100 kenpom wins that our Wildcats had last season.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

More personal insults. Guys like you who attack and hide behind a keyboard are a sad lot. I have never attacked you or anyone else on this board and patiently waiting for the board monitors to enforce their rules. Bye, bye.

You both need to grow a backbone.

 

[willycat]

You both need to grow a backbone.

Or certain people need to enforce the board rules. My backbone is fine and I will discuss difference of opinions but will not except personal attacks.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Or certain people need to enforce the board rules. My backbone is fine and I will discuss difference of opinions but will not except personal attacks.

But would you accept them?

 

[willycat]

But would you accept them?

Always have.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

An offer from rising programs WU and NU! How did we keep Duke, Kansas, Stanford from poaching him? Wow - you should become a HS bball talent evaluator.

Wow, just WOW! How many times of late have we won recruiting battles against Duke, Kansas, and Stanford? How often do we even have a chance with a player with a Duke or KU offer?

Brown didn't have an offer from Duke. So what? Did Canyon Barry have an offer from Coach K, or did I miss it?

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Always have.

You didn't see what he did there. Did you?

 

[DaCat]

You didn't see what he did there. Did you?

A lot of times, the only sound you hear around willy is swoosh...

 

[IGNORE2]

Wow, just WOW! How many times of late have we won recruiting battles against Duke, Kansas, and Stanford? How often do we even have a chance with a player with a Duke or KU offer?

Brown didn't have an offer from Duke. So what? Did Canyon Barry have an offer from Coach K, or did I miss it?

Huh? Which cross reference are you throwing to take my statement out of context? Are you a politician or a lawyer Mr. yesterday?

 

[EvanstonCat]

Take them both....there is a way to do it.

Vassar's scholarship is one. Asking Tap to medically retire is another. Is that what you had in mind?

I'd agree that if we could make that happen, we'd be down to one Carmody recruit (who is actually the anti-Carmody recruit in his defensive intensity, boards, and lack of offense), and be in a good position to make a run in 2016-2017.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The defense would lose a ton if Sanjay moved on.

Though I'd love to see him put on some pads and play tight end for the Cats.

I think the more sensible and likely approach is for Taphorn to medically retire. Sanjay brings a lot more to the team right now, with his D. But, in a way, I would agree that Sanjay is kind of like a Swopshire for the Cardinal. Good enough to play, but if it frees up a scholie, wish him well and have him go somewhere else where he is more likely to get time. He has his degree. Let him play somewhere else where he will help another team more if necessary.

 

[EvanstonCat]

An offer from rising programs WU and NU! How did we keep Duke, Kansas, Stanford from poaching him? Wow - you should become a HS bball talent evaluator.

Don't be absurd.

He's definitely a cut above many players who we have pulled into this program in the past. Washington POY is not nearly as impressive as Illinois Mr. Basketball, but there have been some decent players to come out of Washington:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/high_schools.cgi?country=US&state=WA

If he's as good as some of the best on this list, then yes, I think we can say that his impact next year will be significant.

 

[Medill90]

I think the more sensible and likely approach is for Taphorn to medically retire. Sanjay brings a lot more to the team right now, with his D. But, in a way, I would agree that Sanjay is kind of like a Swopshire for the Cardinal. Good enough to play, but if it frees up a scholie, wish him well and have him go somewhere else where he is more likely to get time. He has his degree. Let him play somewhere else where he will help another team more if necessary.

Ya know, maybe I'd feel different if Sanjay and Tap didn't contribute last year, but they did. So I'm not too comfortable speculating on either moving on. They both have a year of eligibility left and if they want to take it, god bless.

I think the way to bring two in is for Barry Sr. to see that NU and the Big Ten are the best exposure for his son and pay his way for one year. And then hopefully the other scholly opens up for Moore.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

An offer from rising programs WU and NU! How did we keep Duke, Kansas, Stanford from poaching him? Wow - you should become a HS bball talent evaluator.

I've always said, the only indicator of high school talent is if Duke, Kansas, or Stanford are interested. Otherwise, not worth the time...

 

[NJCat]

I think the more sensible and likely approach is for Taphorn to medically retire.

NU can use his scholarship only if it is determined that medically he cannot play anymore. It can't just be because he has had foot problems in the past but which currently don't limit his participation. There are rules to prevent schools from running off players onto a medical scholarship to clear the way for a better player.

 

[IGNORE2]

NU can use his scholarship only if it is determined that medically he cannot play anymore. It can't just be because he has had foot problems in the past but which currently don't limit his participation. There are rules to prevent schools from running off players onto a medical scholarship to clear the way for a better player.

Not a problem - NU has a stable of good physicians that would probably be willing to make such an assertion. Pretty certain the NCAA itself is not licensed to practice and I suspect HIPPA might further complicate any demand for an IME.

 

[willycat]

Ya know, maybe I'd feel different if Sanjay and Tap didn't contribute last year, but they did. So I'm not too comfortable speculating on either moving on. They both have a year of eligibility left and if they want to take it, god bless.

I think the way to bring two in is for Barry Sr. to see that NU and the Big Ten are the best exposure for his son and pay his way for one year. And then hopefully the other scholly opens up for Moore.

How about opening a schlorship by not offering a 5th year ride. It's done all the time, just ask Fitz.

 

[Sec.112]

An offer from rising programs WU and NU! How did we keep Duke, Kansas, Stanford from poaching him? Wow - you should become a HS bball talent evaluator.

Off the top of my head, you might want to look at the high school player rankings of Jason Terry and Michael Dickerson before you blow off the idea that some gems are often hidden in Washington state.

Side note of heartbreak: I've been told by the EXTREMELY strong source that Terry was coming to NU before Lute swept in at the last minute. Byrdsong was all over him.

 

[Medill90]

How about opening a schlorship by not offering a 5th year ride. It's done all the time, just ask Fitz.

I think it's important to separate the principle from the players and staff. I agree with you that there shouldn't be a hard fast position that the fifth year is automatic in basketball.

However, I'd be against not giving it to Sanjay. I'd site three reason. First and most important, he's an excellent student. Second, he's the top effort guy on the team, top defender. Third, he's the team's leader.

While you might certainly pick up more in skills and offense and perhaps even basketball results, the net, net for me is a negative.

I would hope that I'd have the same response if it was Henry Ellison or Jalil Okafor instead of Moore. But I'm not sure that I would. It's an interesting test of one's principles.

 

[willycat]

I think it's important to separate the principle from the players and staff. I agree with you that there shouldn't be a hard fast position that the fifth year is automatic in basketball.

However, I'd be against not giving it to Sanjay. I'd site three reason. First and most important, he's an excellent student. Second, he's the top effort guy on the team, top defender. Third, he's the team's leader.

While you might certainly pick up more in skills and offense and perhaps even basketball results, the net, net for me is a negative.

I would hope that I'd have the same response if it was Henry Ellison or Jalil Okafor instead of Moore. But I'm not sure that I would. It's an interesting test of one's principles.

It's actually the price of winning Div. I BB. Moore does that.

 

[rwhitney014]

Off the top of my head, you might want to look at the high school player rankings of Jason Terry and Michael Dickerson before you blow off the idea that some gems are often hidden in Washington state.

Side note of heartbreak: I've been told by the EXTREMELY strong source that Terry was coming to NU before Lute swept in at the last minute. Byrdsong was all over him.

Right. If LeBron had been from North Dakota, would that have made him any less good? We're talking one player, not demographic trends over a couple decades.

 

[backdoorpass]

Right. If LeBron had been from North Dakota, would that have made him any less good? We're talking one player, not demographic trends over a couple decades.

This is an important point. All the I have read the past couple years has suggested that the 2016 HS class in Illinois is a bit weak. Last summer, our own Rapolas Ivanauskus was seen as potentially being the best player in the state. This is great for Northwestern (and Moore would also be an amazing get for Northwestern). That said, don't assume that the best player in the state of Illinois in 2016 equals anything close to a Kevin Garnett just because KG was the top player in the state in the past.

 

[IGNORE2]

Off the top of my head, you might want to look at the high school player rankings of Jason Terry and Michael Dickerson before you blow off the idea that some gems are often hidden in Washington state.

Side note of heartbreak: I've been told by the EXTREMELY strong source that Terry was coming to NU before Lute swept in at the last minute. Byrdsong was all over him.

Those two are out of how many players from the state of Washington since that time?

Y'all try to paint me in a corner distant from the original conversation regularly. Here, I called Brown unheralded. Stand by it. S112 - do you disagree? Because I like the recruit, the potential, but I do not believe his stardom has been predicted. If he shines, if will be another example of finding a diamond in the rough.

 

[Sec.112]

Those two are out of how many players from the state of Washington since that time?

Y'all try to paint me in a corner distant from the original conversation regularly. Here, I called Brown unheralded. Stand by it. S112 - do you disagree? Because I like the recruit, the potential, but I do not believe his stardom has been predicted. If he shines, if will be another example of finding a diamond in the rough.

You said more than he was unheralded. Someone told you he was the Washington state player of the year and you went into full mocking mode. So let's stop with the "poor me" act.

As for "two out of how many players," you just described the potential for high school players from every state. Rankings don't matter AT ALL. Educated analysis is what matters, and if you think high school recruiting services are anywhere near always on the money, I don't have much more to say.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

How about opening a schlorship by not offering a 5th year ride. It's done all the time, just ask Fitz.

That's fine, as long as Coach told the player that it could happen. I also think that it would be a shame if Sanjay doesn't get to be honored on senior day.

Those two are out of how many players from the state of Washington since that time?

Y'all try to paint me in a corner distant from the original conversation regularly. Here, I called Brown unheralded. Stand by it. S112 - do you disagree? Because I like the recruit, the potential, but I do not believe his stardom has been predicted. If he shines, if will be another example of finding a diamond in the rough.

Boo! If you can't keep track of your own words and arguments, just give up. You can't exactly be a "diamond in the rough" when you're considered to be the state's best player. Maybe you weren't recruited by the top programs, but "unheralded" is a little bit much.

 

[Jeffrey Cat]

You said more than he was unheralded. Someone told you he was the Washington state player of the year and you went into full mocking mode. So let's stop with the "poor me" act.

As for "two out of how many players," you just described the potential for high school players from every state. Rankings don't matter AT ALL. Educated analysis is what matters, and if you think high school recruiting services are anywhere near always on the money, I don't have much more to say.

Actually we got in pretty quickly on Brown last year with the help of of Trangdon Langdon a former Duke player who is a contemporary of Chris Collins. Langdon is from Anchorage, Alaska, was a great player at Duke, and now runs AAU basketball high skill training. Brown, who is actually from Anchorage was under Langdon's tutelage for several years and it was Langdon who brought him to Seattle for better competition. Langdon was in touch with Collins for some time about Brown and I'm sure advised Collins to strike before the fire got to hot because the big boys were sniffing around. I think we should all understand this recruiting thing is a contact deal and it's not about making cold calls on high school coaches, although that helps develop a network.

I might add that Collins and his staff are working many hours to build this thing up and deserve our support. If you like Bill Carmody that's great, but let it go he is gone and actually to a better place for his personality and general lack of interest doing the things necessary to be a good recruiter.

 

[IGNORE2]

You said more than he was unheralded. Someone told you he was the Washington state player of the year and you went into full mocking mode. So let's stop with the "poor me" act.

As for "two out of how many players," you just described the potential for high school players from every state. Rankings don't matter AT ALL. Educated analysis is what matters, and if you think high school recruiting services are anywhere near always on the money, I don't have much more to say.

I said unheralded which led down a path of back and forth. Someone touted POY in Washington and I said great, so what. Unheralded. So drop the forced martyr crap, not looking for your sympath. Be nice to find some integrity. But just keep putting words in my mouth. I'll say again, for the repeating record, I like having Brown on our list. But I do not have great expectations and if he becomes a stand out, then I think it's another example of CCC uncovering a relatively unknown gem.

Now, go back to slicing, dicing and pulling crap out of context to villafy me. At least I'm keeping you busy.

 

[NJCat]

Actually we got in pretty quickly on Brown last year with the help of of Trangdon Langdon a former Duke player who is a contemporary of Chris Collins. Langdon is from Anchorage, Alaska, was a great player at Duke, and now runs AAU basketball high skill training. Brown, who is actually from Anchorage was under Langdon's tutelage for several years and it was Langdon who brought him to Seattle for better competition. Langdon was in touch with Collins for some time about Brown and I'm sure advised Collins to strike before the fire got to hot because the big boys were sniffing around. I think we should all understand this recruiting thing is a contact deal and it's not about making cold calls on high school coaches, although that helps develop a network.

I might add that Collins and his staff are working many hours to build this thing up and deserve our support. If you like Bill Carmody that's great, but let it go he is gone and actually to a better place for his personality and general lack of interest doing the things necessary to be a good recruiter.

Thanks for the background. Interesting how the Duke network helps Collins Scheyer helped with McIntosh, Langdon with Brown, very neat.

 

[IGNORE2]

That's fine, as long as Coach told the player that it could happen. I also think that it would be a shame if Sanjay doesn't get to be honored on senior day.


Boo! If you can't keep track of your own words and arguments, just give up. You can't exactly be a "diamond in the rough" when you're considered to be the state's best player. Maybe you weren't recruited by the top programs, but "unheralded" is a little bit much.

Really? So all 50 POYs across the country are well regarded? Man, wonder who landed that big recruit from Alaska. Is the Delaware POY headed for Duke?

Unheralded = not recruited heavily by power 5 schools, not ranked in top 100, maybe 150 by major scout sites or both. Brown is on par or below Tap, Lump, Abrahamson, AJOU in this regard. Other than a nifty POY award from the bball hotbed called the State of Washington, how else can you differentiate brown from them?

 

[EvanstonCat]

How about opening a schlorship by not offering a 5th year ride. It's done all the time, just ask Fitz.

Willy, get with the program, that's what we're talking about re: Sanjay.

With Taphorn, he's only been in the program 3 years, so for us to open up his scholarship, he'd have to medically become ineligible. I don't know what his academic status is, but in case he can finish up by summer, technically he could be a grad transfer.

 

[willycat]

Willy, get with the program, that's what we're talking about re: Sanjay.

With Taphorn, he's only been in the program 3 years, so for us to open up his scholarship, he'd have to medically become ineligible. I don't know what his academic status is, but in case he can finish up by summer, technically he could be a grad transfer.

Evanston,I have been advocating for weeks, that not inviting Lumpkin back is the easiest way to open up that schlorship. Unless, Vassar finds a program that wants him and he approves of.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Willy, get with the program, that's what we're talking about re: Sanjay.

With Taphorn, he's only been in the program 3 years, so for us to open up his scholarship, he'd have to medically become ineligible. I don't know what his academic status is, but in case he can finish up by summer, technically he could be a grad transfer.

Even if Tap were to graduate this summer, it would still be his choice whether to come back. Scholarships are 4 year commitments.

As for Lumpkin, nobody knows what his agreement (regarding a 5th year) with Collins is. I've seen multiple posters say things like, "It's simple. Don't ask him back". The thing is, it's very possible Sanjay was asked back prior to the end of last season. We just don't have that information. As for the football tie-in thrown out there, Fitz almost always honors the the red shirt juniors that are moving on (some decide to leave on their own accord after the season - job offers, etc).

Given his defensive prowess (on a team with a serious deficiency on that end of the court), his captain status, and failure to be recognized on senior day, it's hard imagining Lump in anything other than a purple uniform next season.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Even if Tap were to graduate this summer, it would still be his choice whether to come back. Scholarships are 4 year commitments.

As for Lumpkin, nobody knows what his agreement (regarding a 5th year) with Collins is. I've seen multiple posters say things like, "It's simple. Don't ask him back". The thing is, it's very possible Sanjay was asked back prior to the end of last season. We just don't have that information. As for the football tie-in thrown out there, Fitz almost always honors the the red shirt juniors that are moving on (some decide to leave on their own accord after the season - job offers, etc).

Given his defensive prowess (on a team with a serious deficiency on that end of the court), his captain status, and failure to be recognized on senior day, it's hard imagining Lump in anything other than a purple uniform next season.

Sure, it might be his decision, but Collins could pull him aside and say (truthfully) that with RI coming in, and Falzon having another year of seasoning along with Skelly, that minutes for Taphorn are going to approach zero. Sure, you can decide to stay, but you may be better off taking your NU degree and pursuing a graduate degree somewhere else, where you can have more impact. And, btw, while we'd welcome you to stay, if you did leave, it would let us bring in a kid like Charlie Moore who could be a real program changer... what are you gonna do?

 

[EvanstonCat]

Even if Tap were to graduate this summer, it would still be his choice whether to come back. Scholarships are 4 year commitments.

As for Lumpkin, nobody knows what his agreement (regarding a 5th year) with Collins is. I've seen multiple posters say things like, "It's simple. Don't ask him back". The thing is, it's very possible Sanjay was asked back prior to the end of last season. We just don't have that information. As for the football tie-in thrown out there, Fitz almost always honors the the red shirt juniors that are moving on (some decide to leave on their own accord after the season - job offers, etc).

Given his defensive prowess (on a team with a serious deficiency on that end of the court), his captain status, and failure to be recognized on senior day, it's hard imagining Lump in anything other than a purple uniform next season.

I tend to agree with you. I think Taphorn taking a medical hardship is probably more likely. And Vassar latching on somewhere else.

 

[hdhntr1]

I think it's important to separate the principle from the players and staff. I agree with you that there shouldn't be a hard fast position that the fifth year is automatic in basketball.

However, I'd be against not giving it to Sanjay. I'd site three reason. First and most important, he's an excellent student. Second, he's the top effort guy on the team, top defender. Third, he's the team's leader.

While you might certainly pick up more in skills and offense and perhaps even basketball results, the net, net for me is a negative.

I would hope that I'd have the same response if it was Henry Ellison or Jalil Okafor instead of Moore. But I'm not sure that I would. It's an interesting test of one's principles.

My feeling is it would have been alright to not offer a 5th year to Sanjay if it was done early enough so he had a chance to catch on somewhere else. But we likely have gotten beyond that point in time.

Fine that he is an excellent student but most of our kids are. Yes he does the dirty work and that is a reason to keep him. Team leader? If he is, fine but is he the team leader above say BMAC? How about other players? He is an upper class man and we will be short of those so he could add stability.

 

[ricko654321]

My feeling is it would have been alright to not offer a 5th year to Sanjay if it was done early enough so he had a chance to catch on somewhere else. But we likely have gotten beyond that point in time.

Fine that he is an excellent student but most of our kids are. Yes he does the dirty work and that is a reason to keep him. Team leader? If he is, fine but is he the team leader above say BMAC? How about other players? He is an upper class man and we will be short of those so he could add stability.

Putting aside the question of whether it is fair or unfair to do that with Sanjay (I would lean toward it being a slightly jerkish move, unless it had been discussed between them previously)- I think getting rid of Sanjay for 1 year of Berry (based on my entirely incomplete knowledge of his talent) would not be the best move. I think from a leadership perspective you lose something, but more importantly you lose him playing a defense + rebounding role that others on the team do not have. There's a reason Sanjay played 24 mpg last year, and even with Vic back and everyone else hopefully healthy I don't think that will go away.

In terms of defense, Vic is very athletic obviously, but I don't think he bring the same defensive tenacity that Sanjay does to the table. On multiple occasions, Sanjay significantly took a star wing player out of their game, and he would still earn meaningful playing time next year against teams that orient their offense around such a single player of that mold. I don't think we beat Wisconsin without Sanjay shadowing Hayes in basically a box and 1, and that final shot by Illinois very well might turn out differently without Sanjay shutting it down (not to mention his defense the rest of the game). Most recently the BTT game against Michigan- if they don't switch BMac onto Irvin with the dribble screens, I think he has a much harder time making it with Sanjay on him than BMac. I could go on - though Denzel Valentine stands out as one counter-example of a wing player that was so hot when we played MSU that even Sanjay wasn't able to stop.

Not having a guard/ wing that can create and make his own shot in 1 on 1 situations late that develop in close games has hurt us frequently in the past - yet we underappreciate the value of a lockdown defender who can stop other teams in those situations and disrupt the plays the other coach will call.

And worth mentioning briefly- he led our team in rebounds last year (slightly behind Olah on a per game basis but very close). And his eFG from some quick numbers I think was 56%, which I believe was behind only Skelly, Pardon, and Taphorn. So while he wasn't a plus offensive player, he made enough open shots that he wasn't a liability offensively in the sense that teams can't just abandon him / he doesn't ruin our floor spacing.