Sorry but that is a bs excuse. Like I said, we have seen the same problems exhibit themselves over the course of multiple seasons. Different Qbs, WRs and OL but the same problems. The common denominator is the coaching.
CJ Bacher goes in-depth with WR about what's wrong with NU's offense
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Sorry but that is a bs excuse. Like I said, we have seen the same problems exhibit themselves over the course of multiple seasons. Different Qbs, WRs and OL but the same problems. The common denominator is the coaching.
So, less handoffs to Jackson? That's the trade off because the kid can't take the pounding of very many more touches. I can see working him more into the passing game if we got guys like Long, Vault, Moten, and Anderson more carries.
I'm really looking forward to seeing Moten play. We won't know until next season but I see him as having almost similar wriggle as Justin but with better top end speed.
To be clear, what are "the same problems" over "multiple seasons?" The drops really stood out last season and this year. Last year's QB was not mobile due to injury; this year's QB was perhaps too quick to exit the pocket. Last year's OL couldn't block at all; this year's OL was improved--I mean, God, Olson by himself was so much better.
I really see the WR problem as repeating over two years, but OL has gotten better and we went from a RS senior to a RS frosh at QB.
Looking back to 2013, we had two receivers with 50+ receptions and our QBs completed 64% of passes.
Cj is partially correct! McCall is the problem. Teams played man to man on us and Thorson, wasn't able to beat it! Total waste. You gotta do play action,roll out,give yourself more time,and burn the dbacks on man coverage! Simple concept! It's all MCalls fault as Thorson has the long ball arm. We lost three games cuz of this crappola game calling.
I have been complaining about the WR problem for at least three years going back to Rashad Lawrence's senior year when I saw a regression in his play. 2013 was Colter's senior year and those stats that you are quoting are a byproduct of how defenses had to account for him as a runner which opened up the short passing game (WR screens, short slants) that were his strength. Completion percentages and number of receptions are not the metric I would judge a passing game by, especially considering the circumstances with Colter that I described. Yards per pass attempted, number of completions over 20 yards, passing TDs, that's what is relevant to measure the explosiveness of a passing game and in that regard we have fallen short for quite some time. Absent an ultra elusive QB like Colter, this offense will continue to be ineffective until defenses are forced to defend the field vertically as well as horizontally. In order to do that you need WRs that can escape jams, that can run precise routes, that can catch a pass, that can make a play on the ball when it is thrown downfield. We haven't had that for several years.
As it relates to the OL, I don't think the drop off in play has been as obvious but i do see a difference. Deep sets, lack of overall physicality and a significant amount of highly sought after recruits who over the course of several years did not develop enough to see the field at all. Contrast that with the solid OLs that Ingalls was able to put together playing walk-on players like Adam Crum and it makes you scratch your head.
Yes, part of my argument for saying they were talented players was based on the number of strong offers they received. And you turned around and dismissed that, since evidently Michigan State, Wisconsin, Stanford, Duke, Missouri, Ole Miss, etc. really aren't big programs. But part of my argument was also the flashes of potential we saw from them earlier on in their careers. I mentioned TJ's long TD against Minny his freshman year. There was also Cam Dickerson's nice TD catch against Michigan (in the Big House) his RS freshman year, and R. Lawrence's contributions as a true freshmen. I don't think any of these guys, however, progressed much during their tenure at NU. Compare their year-by-year stats to guys like Ebert and Zeke. When was the last time a WR really came on and improved significantly as an upperclassmen? The only one I can think of in recent years is Austin Carr, and he's not exactly setting the world on fire (16 receptions for 302 yards and two TD...though he was our leading WR in terms of total yardage).
So are you happy with the play of the WR group, and if not, what to do about it? Is it really that they just haven't been that talented, and if that's the case, then what does that say about our returning group of guys, only three of which, I believe, have actually caught a pass in a game. What don't you fill out next season's two-deep at the position and tell us what you think about it?
I can tell that you have never met an argument that you could win. I did not say those programs were not "big." I said that we have beaten those programs or programs of their caliber in recent years. That's true.
Cam Dickerson was hurt. We never saw his potential because... he was hurt! In fact, his drops were due to one of his injuries.
Rashad Lawrence caught 12 passes as a frosh. He caught 31 at a 14.9 average yards per catch as a senior. Then he made it on to an NFL roster. Yeah, he never progressed. Rashad, did you hear that?
Since you're an expert on receivers, did Ebert and Zeke play in the slot or the outside? What about Rashad and Cam? Did Ebert miss any games due to injury? He was coming off of surgery as a sophomore, but I don't believe he ever missed a game. Rashad missed 4 games as a senior. Cam was basically injured all season this year and never made an impact. I guess the receivers coach is responsible for players' injuries, too.
There's nothing you can do about it except for recruit better receivers.
By the way, if it's true that our two-deep is such a mess, is that likely due to a bad receivers coach or a thin talent pool?
Agreed. Long should have had more carries I think we all agree on that. I think CJ wants JJ more involved in the passing game, which in turn may lead to a few less carries.
That was the year of the injury. TS got hurt in the Wisky game as did Colter and Mark
We had this discussion in another thread. Rashad was not fully healthy during his senior season but his production still went up from junior year to senior year. Please explain this supposed regression. If you have studied tape, maybe you should type up a report and send it in to Coach Fitzgerald.
You're saying that we shouldn't credit McCall for good results when he had a true dual threat QB, but we should fire him when he has a hobbled QB (Siemian) or a callow RS frosh QB. You're essentially saying that McCall doesn't deserve any credit when he has real weapons and deserves to be fired when poor recruits and injuries decimate his offense. That's actually the funniest argument and perhaps a strong one to KEEP McCall. Give him some talented players and he delivers.
Also, you want to talk about an explosive passing game, but don't you seem to acknowledge the absence of our running game following Sutton's departure until Jackson's arrival. The OL was horrid at run blocking and tailbacks like Arby Fields were running in the wrong direction looking for room to move. Now the OL is getting some nice push and Jackson is gobbling up yards. I don't see McCall getting any credit for that.
Moreover, when you consider the fact that we once had no running game and now we do under McCall and we once had a nice passing game under McCall and now we don't, isn't that suggestive that it's personnel, and if not, isn't it suggestive of position coaching problems? My argument is that the coordinator has still found a way to work around our talent deficiencies, and we're completely missing the value of that. I'm shocked that people here don't remember our rushing 'attack' in 2009 being every bit as pathetic as our 2015 passing 'strategy.'
Usually an offensive coordinator has a clear deficiency. He can't call the run game or he overemphasizes it. He can't pass downfield or he's abandoning the run. McCall has shown an ability to look at our run-heavy talent and--pardon the pun--run with it, just as he embraced the passing game when our OL couldn't run block and our RB lacked vision.
He might not be a maestro and it's not pretty when we rely on run or pass, but it's highly suggestive of personnel deficiencies.
People on this board are quick to fire a coach without any acknowledgement that injuries may explain a decline. People don't care because it's not their job or their dad's job. Fire the bastard.
You obviously haven't been reading my posts very carefully if you believe I am advocating for McCall to be fired. I have said repeatedly that McCall is not the problem and in fact I believe him to be one of the better OC's around. I can't say the same about Springer and Cushing.
Jay Culter played like an all pro because of coaching. Even the Detroit Lions looked solid because of good play calling the last game with the Bears! McCall has seen better days! Horribly conservative. You got to play action,roll out and beat those dbacks! You don't do that,it is 8 man in the box. It's not rocket science. These coaches hit the lotto in the BT with their half million dollar contracts seducing kids to get sliced and diced. I work with jocks at all levels. They know the scoop. These coaches,nearly all of whom,don't have ACTs over 30-32 are making surgeon money because they can , generally speaking, seduce 18 year olds to sacrifice their bodies, become addicted to pain killers,while the coaches really believe they are smarter than they really are. I lived the life as an NU athlete. NU is better than most Power Five schools, but not by much. 90% of the athletes on scholarship at NU would be rejected by admissions,if they didn't have the sport they play,hoops, football,etc,advocating for them. That's the truth. I was a high school teacher and counselor with many kids applying to NU. One year I had three straight A kids with 32 ACTs all get rejected by NU. My guess is you have 1 or 2 basketball players,and 6-7 football players on full rides who are at that level.
You basically have to Ace calculus in high school like I did,to handle NU. I was a walk on who lettered. Not many jocks can do that in power five conferences.
The deep and layered levels of stupid here are very impressive. It's truly Hall of Fame worthy stuff.
That was a nice article by CJ. It got me thinking about something I had completely forgotten. Back in the 2002-2005 years, under Randy Walker, those of us on the message board used to joke about the number of wide receivers on the team -- there were lots of them. It seemed like every recruiting class in those days included way more receivers than we needed. Many of them would rarely earn playing time and some wound up switching positions.
At the time, we made fun of it and just assumed it was a sign of cluelessness by the coaching staff. After reading this article and the comments about Ross Lane, I wonder if there was method in that madness. Maybe that coaching staff understood that finding a great receiver was both difficult and somewhat a matter of luck. Perhaps their solution was to sign many in order maximize the odds of always having one or two good ones.
By the way, I am not advocating that we blindly hand out lots of scholarships to anyone with pass-catching ability. However, I do feel that it helps a college football team to have a persona. Our persona in the mid-2000's was that of a pass-heavy, spread-offense team and we recruited accordingly, just as today Wisconsin is a downhill running team that typically recruits well at running back and O-line, and Nebraska is an option running team that recruits fast, mobile quarterbacks.
The question is, what is our persona now? It is certainly not the same as it was ten years ago. If someone refers to a Northwestern style of football, what does that bring to mind? And here's a follow up question, what persona do we want?
At the time, we made fun of it and just assumed it was a sign of cluelessness by the coaching staff. After reading this article and the comments about Ross Lane, I wonder if there was method in that madness. Maybe that coaching staff understood that finding a great receiver was both difficult and somewhat a matter of luck. Perhaps their solution was to sign many in order maximize the odds of always having one or two good ones.
By the way, I am not advocating that we blindly hand out lots of scholarships to anyone with pass-catching ability. However, I do feel that it helps a college football team to have a persona. Our persona in the mid-2000's was that of a pass-heavy, spread-offense team and we recruited accordingly, just as today Wisconsin is a downhill running team that typically recruits well at running back and O-line, and Nebraska is an option running team that recruits fast, mobile quarterbacks.
The question is, what is our persona now? It is certainly not the same as it was ten years ago. If someone refers to a Northwestern style of football, what does that bring to mind? And here's a follow up question, what persona do we want?
Get in line. I'm really looking forward to seeing Anderson play, and really looking forward to seeing Long play more than 10 snaps, and really looking forward to seeing G Dickerson play more.
Because I have no idea where Moten is going to play with so many great athletes in front of him that seemingly can't get on the field with McCall's last #122 NCAA offense. And no matter how much it pains you or other Pollyanna's, one thing you CAN"T say is that we will miss Vitale. As brutal as that sounds, the 2nd team All-Big TE could barely even crack the field in the most important game of the year since your boy McCall decided to 'trick' Tennessee by sitting Vitale on the bench and springing Vault as the new wr in his position switch.
Good Grief DaCat!
Our persona back then was high-flying offense and Swiss cheese defense. As you know, it was very reminiscent of present-day Indiana, and unlike them, we stuck with the same defensive coordinator year after year.
Two things changed over the last 15 years. First, the spread has become ubiquitous. Now everybody fights over the same group of top-flight receiving recruits because the demand is so high. Then consider that our recruit pool is thinned immediately by our arbitrary football admissions standards, which are not based on NU regular admissions and not based on NCAA standards. Secondly, Gocatsgo says that we have not allocated more resources (time, energy, and bodies) toward recruiting for defense, but we have played several "athletes" like K. Watkins, Igwebuike, and Henry in the defensive backfield. Under a different regime, they may have played the other way.
Also, keep in mind that Fuessel retired because of health reasons and that recruit Dareian Watkins reportedly went gaga over the ganja and wound up at Wisconsin (briefly). You have to peer intently into the crystal ball of parallel universes, but they might have started for us this year.
And don't forget, perhaps our potentially best OL was moved to DL, i.e., Lancaster.
Watkins was the number 1 rated RB coming out of the whole state of Ohio. And Harris was an offensive jaugernaut that was moved to Defense as well.
Unlike Walker, Fitz seems to have been doing beter finding spots to get his best 11 on the field and making them productive. Watkins and Harris are phenonmenal athletes, and Godwin may be the best Football player of all of them. And unlike Walker, Fitz' philosophy apparently is defense first. Nothing right or wrong with it, and he has shown success with it. But at the expense of balance it seems. Walker had HORRIBLE balance between offense and defense. It could just be that our recruiting will always leave us lacking 22 solid starters, so we either have to roll one way or the other. The only one to pull it off otherwise here was Barnett, and Fitz is still looking for a Division trophy but I think we are still climbing towards that.
As far as Astrocat's suggestion that we need to recruit more wr, the last time I counted, we had 22 wide outs on the team.
Here are my questions for Bacher?
Are you satisfied that offensive game planning goes awry?
Do you ever wonder why we never really tested the mettle of those 22? I do. It's not a wake-up-in-cold-sweat-at-3:00a.m. bewilderment, more like a bad itch on my rear end that I can't reach while in public.
For example, whatever happened with Pierre Youngblood-Ary? A couple of years ago, I picked up some chatter speculating that he was in Fitz's doghouse, but come on! This long? He NU's leading receiver in the Outback Bowl, albeit in garbage time. The last time I devoted a thought to him was the NIU game, when he caught a nice TD pass from TS. And while Lou's team was still allowed to run weekly practice reports, the constant refrain was "Youngblood-Ary made a couple nice catches on deep routes." He disappeared so much so that I thought he graduated a couple years ago. I'm sure there are others that we could have at least given a chance, like Corey Acker or some of the walk-ons.
Are you satisfied that offensive game planning goes awry?
Do you ever wonder why we never really tested the mettle of those 22? I do. It's not a wake-up-in-cold-sweat-at-3:00a.m. bewilderment, more like a bad itch on my rear end that I can't reach while in public.
For example, whatever happened with Pierre Youngblood-Ary? A couple of years ago, I picked up some chatter speculating that he was in Fitz's doghouse, but come on! This long? He NU's leading receiver in the Outback Bowl, albeit in garbage time. The last time I devoted a thought to him was the NIU game, when he caught a nice TD pass from TS. And while Lou's team was still allowed to run weekly practice reports, the constant refrain was "Youngblood-Ary made a couple nice catches on deep routes." He disappeared so much so that I thought he graduated a couple years ago. I'm sure there are others that we could have at least given a chance, like Corey Acker or some of the walk-ons.
Don't believe chatter about doghouses. It's always crap....especially if it's on the board. When games can be determined by 1 or 2 plays, and job security is determined by 1 or 2 games, Do you really think coaches that have millions of dollars on the line would put in the worse player in because they don't like the other guy? It's not some personal doghouse situation. Additionally, XPYA was ASKED to come back for year 5. If Fitz had him in the doghouse, why do that?
Fact is, XPYA isn't a great WR on the big ten level. He's a good kid (never once heard about him getting in trouble (ok low standard, but point stands)). He's going to graduate and did some decent things on the field special teams wise. In high school, he had 9 catches as a senior. Granted that was scheme related (triple option), but if XPYA was such a great athlete, why wasn't he given the ball in the back field or in some other way? He wasn't. Fitz and Springer took a chance...err wait no... Kevin Johns was the WR coach at the time. And XPYA turned into a special teams player.
Yes, there are doghouses, no doubt with Fitz. Don't pay any attention to Shakes who screams absolutely that Fitz has no doghouse. Shakes has no comprehension on these matters. Doghouses do exist and most of them have to do with players not giving what they are capable of. I don't have any information about PYA other than his name change from Xavier, but he also hauled in a nice deep pass from Oliver last year and all he did was catch the ball. That said, maybe a doghouse was in order for him, Dunno.
I don't care about doghouses. The fact is that we had 22 freakn wr and we have a previous QB rightly saying that none of them could get open. I don't expect CJ to dog coaches but I will. McCall vouched for Springer and Fitz hired him. Since then, we have had ZERO productivity from wr. McCall himself has devised offenses that force our best players on the bench [insert Vitale here]. Of course, this all could be personal, as what was reported. When Johns left for Indy, the kneejerk reaction was to pick up the unemployed Springer from Indy to "Show" Johns. Johns was then free to develop a real offense, and McCall was free to continue his system with the added support of Springer.
Based on the lack of evidence on the field, the "Johns Theory" is making more sense.
As we move forward, I hope the authorities address the clear and present issues this time and that "The Problem of Fitz" is finally cracked.
I hate being right.
Go Cats!
I would not expect that. If he had JJ's feet to go with his straight line speed, he'd be our starting RB.
I rewatched his senior tape on HUDL. It is almost comical watching him tear off huge TD runs, one of which was about 105 yards from where he took a pitch. Fun to watch, but he is playing against class 3 competition, which is pretty weak in MO. His speed is legit, but it is hard to say how elusive he is.
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to go with your point. jake rudock was not giving a thought to football after college. now he is going to give the nfl a try after a lot of good feed back from nfl teams. nobody thougt rudock would play in the nfl when he left iowa. wr jehu chesson a 3 star wr who had never done anything at michigan. this year first team b10. an oline that had been one of the worst in the country the last few years. 10 times better this year
In my experience watching NU football, one thing I have noticed about many of our quarterbacks is they often become a lot better with experience. I particularly remember Tim O'Brien, who never played much until he was a senior and then had a surprisingly good year on a really bad 0-11 team which had NO defense. AND Steve Schnur, who struggled for two years (10 int to 4 TD in his Soph season) and then was transformed in his junior and senior years into an all-Big ten caliber QB who should have been league MVP in 1996 (was runner up to Orlando Pace). Therefore, I'm hoping to see a big progression from Thorsen in his second year (yes, it would help to find a receiver like D'Wayne Bates for him to throw to. Bates was recruited as a QB here so maybe Yates is the guy). If I don't see that development next season, I will be far more willing to advocate for Fitz to shuffle the deck with his offensive coaches. That's hard to do after a 10-3 season behind a redshirt Freshman QB despite the season ending disappointment against a very good Tennessee team that nearly won at Alabama.
