is going to be fine. Just fine. He will learn from his mistakes. One win against a team some predicted would be in the playoffs and another against a fringe top 25 team. Yes the defense won this game along with special teams, but that is a luxury we have when it comes to allowing some room for our green QB to learn on the job. We should all be really happy. Personally, I thought we would be 1-2 at this point in the season. Now it looks almost a guarantee to go bowling and a legitimate chance to win the West! Go Cats!
Clayton
- Thread starter DocCatsFan
- Start date
Yes and it seems to me that everyone said Stanford and Duke had good defenses that Clayton would struggle against. So he did and we won anyway. He will get better and defenses will get worse so that is a good combination. This team would have to totally implode to net get to 6 wins this season and should get to 8 or 9
And we did, in fact, use them last game. I saw no instance in this game or the Stanford game where I would have pulled Clayton. He's gonna have to ride through the learning curve. Remember Oliver's first game? Or better, yet, remember Kafka's?
Clayton has been pretty composed. The O-line have been much better this year than last keeping rushers off plus Thorson has more mobility than an injured Trevor. Clayton is not a great runner, looks tentative, but probably will improve over time. He short armed a lot of throws today but seemed to forget it quickly. Keep him healthy and he will turn into a good one.
They'll need to be tuned in next week as we all know the dangers of overlooking a MAC team after a big win. When we get into the B1G the Cats will need to have developed a creditable passing games as we'll be facing some good defenses in Wisky, Iowa, Minny, Michigan and PSU. This might be a year when we end up in a lot of ugly and nerve-wracking games.
I think that there aren't really natural situations where you use the other QBs. Is aliviti a superior runner? Probably not by much or he would have been closer to winning the job. Is oliver a better passer? Probably, but its far easier to put in the runner for certain plays than it is to put in the pocket QB. Hard to pull your starter every 3rd and long or when you need a fast drive, although I know it worked at times with kain/trevor.
If we can win a tough game when nothing is working for CT, id like to give him a few chances to show what he can do when he has a good game before he gets relegated to split time
If we can win a tough game when nothing is working for CT, id like to give him a few chances to show what he can do when he has a good game before he gets relegated to split time
I think he will develop into a good player, but he was fairly putrid against Duke. Hopefully he learns quickly and develops the ability to throw downfield soon enough. I remember Sudfield as a frosh. While he made his share of mistakes, he could throw it downfield and make plays with his arm.
Lets be honest, Thorsen was terrible in this game. 9 for 23 for 70 yards and two (2) intersections, for a QBR of 7. Is he a true "dual threat" QB ? So far he's not scaring anyone with the pass. As I stated after Stanford game, defense and special teams cannot win every game, and at some point, very soon, we're going to need the QB to step up and win some games. If passing game doesn't pick up fast, your gonna see 8 or 9 in the box and Jackson's going to get killed. Clayton is a nice athlete, but doesn't appear to have true "dual threat" speed, illusiveness or scrambling ability. I think we'll see Oliver a lot sooner than most people think.
It was his first game on the road, he had some jitters. Very rarely can freshman QBs come in and be studs right off of the bat. He showed some flash in the first two games of what he is really capable of and had a bad game this time around. He will need to get better as big ten play begins, but Duke and Stanford are as good or better than most teams we will face this season.
He had several "learning opportunities" today. I learn more from my mistake than from my successes.
Clayton had a rough game today, but I don't know what you're talking about. He has made some absolutely outstanding throws and many under the pressure of third and long. And if you can't see that he can flat out run I don't know what to tell you. Look at his TD runs and you'll see that not only is he fast but he is elusive as well.
What was weird about his second interception was that it felt like among the best pass blocking he'd had all day. He was just sitting there in the pocket, not pressured, and he threw a bad pass. It's almost as if he makes better decisions when he's instinctual than when he has the time to think about what he's doing. That should get better with experience.
After watching the tape again, you can see some good throws into the deep middle. Buckley and Nagel had key drops. He skipped a deep out to Vitale due to pressure causing him to hurry the throw while shortening his stride.
He certainly made his share of bad throws, but this is one of those bad games you have to expect out of RS frosh. He will have his struggles this year.
He certainly made his share of bad throws, but this is one of those bad games you have to expect out of RS frosh. He will have his struggles this year.
He made a lot of mistakes today. re-watch the game, not just the INT's. Look at the 3rd and 3 where he had an easy 1st down run to ice the game and chose to go for the home run. Bad pitch on the option. He escaped some serious mistakes today. He has talent, just a bunch of kid mistakes
Agreed. That option sprint needs to come out of the playbook. He looks very uncomfortable with that play.
I agree. Though, it was getting close to a point that putting in #2 crossed my mind. Not gonna say glad we didn't, but glad CT got a full game with some heavy pressure. Really hope he develops.
I did think he made some heady plays. Staying in bounds on the late keeper was impressive for a guy that looked over his head most of the game.
Corbi - I really love your insights, but did gcg steal your login? CT is young, inexperienced, etc. but xx is right, he was pretty bad today. And the lack of a passing game is clogging up the running lanes.
I'm not calling for Oliver, but let's be honest. Without some marked improvement, we either get killed in the B1G or we see another QB...or both.
To set the record straight - I am happy. We won. We are 3-0. And Stanford is proving to be a quality opponent and offense. I am one of those who has remarked on Thorson's poor play. It's nothing against the kid. It's simply objective. He simply did not play well today. I don't know how you look at the stat line 9/23 70 yards, 2 INTs, and can say otherwise. That misfire to a wide open Shuler says it all. The kid had a terrible game.
But, we can afford some patience. As I mentioned even before the season, this defense may be good enough that we don't need more than a couple scores a game to beat anyone. Especially if all of a sudden we have a return game with Vault (put him in for PR's - someone who will at least catch the ball dammit), and if we can count on a pick six. every now and then. One wonders what we might accomplish with a QB like Bacher or Kafka or healthy Siemian or Persa back there, but I we don't have them and Thorson is likely the best we have. But, if there was ever a year we could afford to break in a new frosh QB, this is it. The D is ridiculous. Our RB's are deep, and Thorson can make plays with his legs. If we can rush for 200 yards a game, we'll be just fine.
What do we know after 3 games:
1. Our D is AWESOME. That Stanford O looked pretty damn good against a #6 ranked USC team today. Duke is no slouch on O either. We are the #1 ranked D in the land today and it will be the basis upon which we win games this year.
2. Our RB's are deep. Overall depth is a strength for us this year - we simply wore Duke down.
3. Our QB is raw and our passing game suspect. The O will struggle overall
Quite simply, we live and die by the D. We need to keep the other team from scoring, do just enough on the O side of the ball (plus pick sixes and good field position based on D) to win the game, but the O will not carry us, and it's doubtful that we can come from too far behind. The run game can be punishing, so as long as the D holds up, and we are ahead, we can just pound the ball all the day.
I've always been a guy who loved offense - loved the O in 2000, behind Baz, Persa, Kafka, Bacher, etc... But, this is the year we win playing 1995 ball and Tressell ball. Nothing wrong with that really - I'm fine with it if we have a D that can live up to it, which we finally do.
How does Fitzgerald square the circle when he says "it's about performance, not potential"? All along he has said the QB race was very close. CT has ben pretty average the first three games, admittedly against very good talent in two games. Pat says he's tired of being average, and was all over Vitale and North after they were below average in game 1. IF, and it's purely hypothetical at this point, CT is average again against Ball State, does he go ZO against Minny? Because this could be a really special season, and right now QB is by far the weak link on this team.
The problem I have is you and every other 'I know it' all pissing on those with a differing opinion. You KNOW nothing. Your opinion is that it will straighten out. Every league has a worst O. It may be NU this year for the B1G. There has to be a worst QB - could be CT. It's more common for expectations to not be achieved in this sport. CT may figure it out, or this MAY who CT is this year, maybe overall.
But you, gcg, corbi - really need to drop the smarter than everyone in the room shtick. I'm pretty sure Belicheck is not a poster on this Board. If you all were really so damn football wise, you would be paid a lot to do this in the pros. You are not is my guess. So relax with your opinions.
Truth is, if somebody didn't have strong opinions we would have nothing to talk about. A strong lean one way or an over the top assertion the other way gives us fodder for exchange. I enjoy the know it alls and I enjoy you not wanting to have any of it.
So thanks everybody. We will be 4-0 next week or the melt down will be hysterical. Either way it will be fun to be a Cat fan this season, IMO.
You guys do realize that thorson played one year of varsity hs footballl as a qb and now has played 3 games as a college qb, right?. thorson will develop very well being the athlete that he is, the temperament he has and because mccall actually does a good job developing qbs.
Jules, I had no idea, actually. Who did he play behind in high school? The best predictor of NFL success is number of collegiate starts (this is disputable, but it's a strong relationship). I assume, at least for freshmen and sophs, that a similar relationship exists.
Kafka was overmatched as a freshman because he didn't know how to play the position. He also didn't start at QB until his senior year of high school.
In my opinion, ZO's career as a contributor ended the moment CT was announced as the starter. You don't choose a redshirt freshman over a fifth year senior unless you're prepared to take some lumps. The lumps haven't equalled losses yet, but I don't think it will matter if they do.
Also, for what it's worth, CT now has significantly more game experience than ZO, and infinity percent more wins. That's the performance that matters.
CT's the guy. I hope the staff was right.
I don't disagree with you I just wonder how you go on record with the "performance, not potential" comment and then pretty much play someone for potential given that their performance is not good. FWIW, I'd keep starting Thorson unless he loses his confidence.
In his HS program there was a senior whose turn it was to start when Thorson was a junior. He was a very good WR in his junior year. He was already being recruited as a QB and was a well known commodity under the assumption that he would start his senior season at Wheaton North. Obviously, had a great senior year and all and did very well at the Under Armour postseason game. People need to realize how few starts this guys has had. He's doing fine - even being bad yesterday.
The bigger problem is that we still have ridiculous drops. The WRs have to let Thorson get into a rhythm and build some confidence.
That said, Thorson misread two big plays in particular, which I chalk up to him being green. You absolutely need to hit Shuler downfield. And on the throw into triple coverage (it was a double post) the second post was wide open. Just two bad reads. Tape should help.
That said, Thorson misread two big plays in particular, which I chalk up to him being green. You absolutely need to hit Shuler downfield. And on the throw into triple coverage (it was a double post) the second post was wide open. Just two bad reads. Tape should help.
I enjoy their opinions when they aren't shitting on everyone else for views that are no less valid than their own.
Was the Shuler miss a bad read? Or was he just unable to make the throw? The latter worries me. I thought he had an arm and the accuracy to go with it, but that one made me wonder WTF happened.
Shuler was running a clear out, probably Clayton's third read (especially on third and medium).
What was strange was Shuler was looking back for the ball. Is this the way the route i run? Someone must have messed up their route because there wasn't an NU player I could see underneath.
Probably because he broke so wide-ass open early in his route and he wanted to make sure he could catch the ball if thrown earlier than anticipated/typical.
The bottom line is that Thorson is not only the best long term option, he is also the best near term option. Duke's defense was outstanding yesterday and while I agree that Thorson struggled mightily, I am confident that Oliver's and Alviti's limitations would have made yesterday's offensive production worse. With Duke's team speed and our OL still finding its way with its pass blocking, I hate to think how many sacks and tackle for losses we would have had yesterday with an immobile QB who didn't need to be accounted for in the running game. While Thorson did not execute in the passing game yesterday he had shown enough on tape in his previous two games to keep the defense honest. I hate to think how badly Duke would have stacked the line of scrimmage with a run only QB. It sucks that we find ourselves in this position but the reality is that our best choice for a true dual threat QB is a tremendously talented but inexperienced RS freshman who will need to learn while on the job. I think the kid has the goods and will be turning heads by the end of this season but in the mean time we will need to live with the growing pains. There is just no better alternative.
CT's performance HAS been superior to Oliver's. Remember those quick 4 turnovers in Oliver's debut? Practice also counts and by all indications Thorson has been the clear winner of the QB competition.
If it's just a result of inexperience, one would think our game against Eastern would have been the ideal setting for Thorson to straighten out poor decision-making and build some confidence. Sadly, the coaches missed a golden opportunity for Thorson's development. It showed against Duke. Instead, we ran mostly straightforward running plays and minimized the number of passing repetitions, perhaps doing so to hide the playbook from opponents for the following weeks.
Kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison, given that almost half of the scholarship players were hurt and out of action against Illinois while NU has been as healthy this season as they have in years. CT could have easily been intercepted 3 or 4 times in the Stanford game. And what matters is how the players play on Saturdays, not just in practice. I'm not suggesting a change at this point,, but if after game 4 there isn't improvement then PF is talking out of both sides of his mouth if he sticks with Clayton.
