Coaches on Hot Seat? Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin referenced as needing change

[mountaindrew]

He puts a student athletes success over his own success and just winning football games. It is sad most on here only know Fitz from seeing him on television. If they knew the honorable and unselfish man he was, they would know how blessed we are to have him at NU.

I agree 100% with the importance of keeping a coach who has those values and embodies everything Fitz does. I said on another thread last week that nothing would be better over the next 20 years than for NU to return to its status as one of the Big Ten West's Top Dogs, with good ol' #51 running the show.

But the dude HAS to grow as a football coach. Period. Right now he ain't.

We need BOTH things. Fitz to be the excellent man and leader of men that he is, AND for him to be one of the best football strategists in the Big Ten.

And yes, Rebel and Corbi, I clearly am just a goofball big mouth fan, just spouting on the internet. With that said.... I'm right.

 

[IGNORE2]

This isn't on Gragg... yet.

If it continues for years without end? Then it's going to be much more on Gragg as much as it's on Fitz right now.

Failed coordinator hirings are on the 17 year HC given the power and control that he has over the football program.

Whether it is or isn’t is debatable. Pretty if gragg wanted to leave, his tenure at NU would not boost his resume. Perhaps he could explain it away to a neutral - but as an employer, I would probably look at his excuses and decisions and factor in decided smarts and leadership.

Regardless, longer he stays and status quo holds, more likely he won’t ever get a better offer. Rick Taylor, that bitter old arse, in the making.

 

[IGNORE2]

I guess some of you really think that Gragg, or any other P5 AD, can unilaterally call a sitting, beloved coach into his office and give them some ultimatum. That's not how this works; it's not how any of this works.

I agree. Now when that HC has 4 wins over two years, terrible hires that he stubbornly stands behind and has begun alienating the alum and fan base with his snarky, condescending remarks - I would argue that the AD needs that sit down urgently. Even if only to order him to improve his public facing image regardless to how he truly feels about alum, reporters and fans. That AD ultimately is to maintain and improve the school image and reputation - not watch some entitled losing coach hurt it through words.

 

[IGNORE2]

I agree 100% with the importance of keeping a coach who has those values and embodies everything Fitz does. I said on another thread last week that nothing would be better over the next 20 years than for NU to return to its status as one of the Big Ten West's Top Dogs, with good ol' #51 running the show.

BUT the dude HAS to grow as a football coach. Period. Right now he ain't.

We need BOTH things. Fitz to be the excellent man and leader of men that he is, AND for him to be one of the best football strategists in the Big Ten.

And yes, Rebel, I clearly am just a goofball big mouth fan, just spouting on the internet. With that said.... I'm right.

You are right. Excellent man and leader of you d is a prerequisite to retain the job, not the measuring stick of performance. Lower paid coaches and professors are held to the same expectations. PF gets the big money to bring in wins on top of the minimum NU community expectations.

 

[mountaindrew]

I agree. Now when that HC has 4 wins over two years, terrible hires that he stubbornly stands behind and has begun alienating the alum and fan base with his snarky, condescending remarks - I would argue that the AD needs that sit down urgently. Even if only to order him to improve his public facing image regardless to how he truly feels about alum, reporters and fans. That AD ultimately is to maintain and improve the school image and reputation - not watch some entitled losing coach hurt it through words.

Agree with you, Ignore, but.... image, schmimage. We suck. Fix that, Fitz.

 

[phatcat]

I guess some of you really think that Gragg, or any other P5 AD, can unilaterally call a sitting, beloved coach into his office and give them some ultimatum. That's not how this works; it's not how any of this works.

I will beat this drum until my ears burst. TCU fired Gary Patterson. Duke fired Cutcliffe. How is Fitz somehow more insulated? In fact, I don't want him fired, yet. I want him to get rid of his sorry-ass coordinators and see if that helps.

I believe the problem is deeper - Andersons's line sucks, so do the WRs and LBs. Might need to clean house but willing to start w OC and DC because wow

 

[zeek55]

I guess some of you really think that Gragg, or any other P5 AD, can unilaterally call a sitting, beloved coach into his office and give them some ultimatum. That's not how this works; it's not how any of this works.

It's Gragg's job to learn when to push and pull. He is the AD. He has all the powers of AD here. He is Fitz's boss in actuality even though we all know the HC is the face of the program and commands a much higher salary and connections with donors.

Obviously if we were back in 2020 and the football program was thriving in terms of results on the field, then there would no issues, and Gragg wouldn't have to do anything.

But Gragg has to be able to talk to Fitz about what isn't working when the program is in freefall as it apparently is right now. Talking to Fitz about the job that his coordinators are doing (or appear completely unable to do in the case of JON being DC and Bajakian finding a workable offense) is the job of the AD.

Because at the end of the day, Gragg'll get fired and then somebody else will get hired to clean house if he doesn't do his job.

 

[KappaKat]

It's Gragg's job to learn when to push and pull. He is the AD. He has all the powers of AD here. He is Fitz's boss in actuality even though we all know the HC is the face of the program and commands a much higher salary and connections with donors.

Obviously if we were back in 2020 and the football program was thriving in terms of results on the field, then there would no issues, and Gragg wouldn't have to do anything.

But Gragg has to be able to talk to Fitz about what isn't working when the program is in freefall as it apparently is right now. Talking to Fitz about the job that his coordinators are doing (or appear completely unable to do in the case of JON being DC and Bajakian finding a workable offense) is the job of the AD.

Because at the end of the day, Gragg'll get fired and then somebody else will get hired to clean house if he doesn't do his job.

Because it wasn't on the evening news, we should assume that Gragg hasn't had those conversations with Fitz? For the umpteenth time, GRAGG CAN'T UNILATERALLY FORCE FITZ TO DO A DAMN THING (unless it's contractual, maybe), AND CERTAINLY CANNOT FIRE HIM.

 

[zeek55]

Because it wasn't on the evening news, we should assume that Gragg hasn't had those conversations with Fitz? For the umpteenth time, GRAGG CAN'T UNILATERALLY FORCE FITZ TO DO A DAMN THING (unless it's contractual, maybe), AND CERTAINLY CANNOT FIRE HIM.

I highly doubt he's had any conversations with Fitz about it yet quite frankly.

Given this is year 2 of Dark Age struggles not 5 or 6 in the case of a Scott Frost or somebody flailing to keep their job, I think Graag probably waits until the off-season to talk to Fitz about it.

Obviously I don't think Graag can fire Fitz. That would really require 6 years of these kinds of results to get to that point. Fitz has a long rope here.

But there's plenty to talk about after the program has its worst year in several decades.

Will it work? Who knows. Fitz is incredibly stubborn and maybe he really thinks JON is on the verge of fielding an effective defense and isn't the problem.

We won't know that though unless JON is still in place going into next season.

 

[SmellyCat]

Because it wasn't on the evening news, we should assume that Gragg hasn't had those conversations with Fitz? For the umpteenth time, GRAGG CAN'T UNILATERALLY FORCE FITZ TO DO A DAMN THING (unless it's contractual, maybe), AND CERTAINLY CANNOT FIRE HIM.

I don't think he'll fire OR force anything, but certainly if he's any good as an AD he can have the conversation. If Fitz wants to, he can be a jerk about it and freely ignore Gragg without worrying about his job, but since most of us think Fitz is a man of integrity (you can complain about coachspeak and arrogance and stubbornness all you want, but I doubt anyone would refute this description), I think they can at least peacefully have that conversation.

Gragg may hold his feet to the fire a little, and Fitz may completely stay the course, but it's part of both of their jobs to have that conversation. If we all believe that Fitz is unhappy with the last two years (and how could he not be?), regardless of the reason, then he owes it to his boss to at least have the discussion.

 

[StreamCat]

Leo Durocher: "Nice guys finish last." Fitz will need to fire his buddy JON and restore some accountability on both sides of the ball.

Well, Leo Durocher was certainly not a nice guy. He was a terrible, awful human being. If that’s what you want, have at it, but never at Northwestern. Never.

 

[phatcat]

Well, Leo Durocher was certainly not a nice guy. He was a terrible, awful human being. If that’s what you want, have at it, but never at Northwestern. Never.

What about arrogant jerks that finish last?

 

[zeek55]

I don't think he'll fire OR force anything, but certainly if he's any good as an AD he can have the conversation. If Fitz wants to, he can be a jerk about it and freely ignore Gragg without worrying about his job, but since most of us think Fitz is a man of integrity (you can complain about coachspeak and arrogance and stubbornness all you want, but I doubt anyone would refute this description), I think they can at least peacefully have that conversation.

Gragg may hold his feet to the fire a little, and Fitz may completely stay the course, but it's part of both of their jobs to have that conversation. If we all believe that Fitz is unhappy with the last two years (and how could he not be?), regardless of the reason, then he owes it to his boss to at least have the discussion.

Doesn't matter where or what level the program is, I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least a conversation about the results after a 1-11 season.

If you're the AD of the school and your flagship program is 1-11, you should at least talk to the HC about what happened, what went wrong, what should go right next year to avert a repeat.

Doesn't mean anybody gets fired immediately or whatever, but this isn't sustainable as it is.

 

[StreamCat]

What about arrogant jerks that finish last?

They finish last which negates Durocher’s inane quote.

What the Lip said wasn’t particularly insightful or even true. It was just his excuse for being an a-hole.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I guess some of you really think that Gragg, or any other P5 AD, can unilaterally call a sitting, beloved coach into his office and give them some ultimatum. That's not how this works; it's not how any of this works.

Actually, it is exactly how it works. There is not a single coach who has the record of failure that PF has had the last few years that a) is beloved (I don't think that label applies anymore) and b) cannot be called into the office and given an ultimatum.

If Nick Saban had the record we did at Alabama or even after just two losing seasons, he would be called into an office and given an ultimatum. Or more likely, he'd just be fired, just like guys that were revered at least at some moment in time like Joe Paterno, Gene Chizik, Jim Tressell, and Les Miles were despite having won National Championships.

Think of everything Gary Patterson did for TCU, which is probably much more than PF has done for NU and yet he was let go.

 

[CatManTrue]

Actually, it is exactly how it works. There is not a single coach who has the record of failure that PF has had the last few years that a) is beloved (I don't think that label applies anymore) and b) cannot be called into the office and given an ultimatum.

If Nick Saban had the record we did at Alabama or even after just two losing seasons, he would be called into an office and given an ultimatum. Or more likely, he'd just be fired, just like guys that were revered at least at some moment in time like Joe Paterno, Gene Chizik, Jim Tressell, and Les Miles were despite having won National Championships.

Think of everything Gary Patterson did for TCU, which is probably much more than PF has done for NU and yet he was let go.

I disagree strongly that Fitz is no longer beloved - even if things end badly with his tenure, he’s done some really impressive things as our head coach. Also, Fitz has done more for NU than Patterson did at TCU when you factor in his playing days.

That being said, things need to improve quickly. Our program has moved from respected to embarrassing in an abrupt fashion.

 

[NUCat320]

Think of everything Gary Patterson did for TCU, which is probably much more than PF has done for NU and yet he was let go.

Importantly, GPatt’s leadership had gotten stale and needed new thinking. They’re 8-0.

I know that Patterson had been the de facto DC for a long time — I’m not sure if he’d stepped back a bit schematically toward the end of his tenure.

With Fitz, he can do everything he does well — his job description wouldn’t change much with a new set of Coordinators. Stubbornness is the barrier.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Importantly, GPatt’s leadership had gotten stale and needed new thinking. They’re 8-0.

I know that Patterson had been the de facto DC for a long time — I’m not sure if he’d stepped back a bit schematically toward the end of his tenure.

With Fitz, he can do everything he does well — his job description wouldn’t change much with a new set of Coordinators. Stubbornness is the barrier.

Actually TCU is exactly why we should strongly consider a change. TCU is 8-0.

What you don't believe our leadership has gotten stale and needs new thinking?

 

[NUCat320]

Actually TCU is exactly why we should strongly consider a change. TCU is 8-0.

What you don't believe our leadership has gotten stale and needs new thinking?

Yup, we’re in the same boat as TCU was. And being that Fitz likely isn’t going anywhere until he chooses to do so, he needs to hire and entrust coordinators.

 

[phatcat]

I've been shouting TCU and Duke from the rooftops. If the coach fails, he either adapts or is fired. Why be the exception here? (Shaw might also take a look over his shoulder)

 

[Ryanfield124]

HAHAHA

All of you overlook the immense ego of our head coach which I will now illustrate:
1. Does anyone see ANY former player vocally/socially defending Fitz and this program? Do you see former players on the sideline showing support? Ever?
2. Why is it NU is about the only program where the only jersey you can buy is HIS #51? You can buy other jerseys at Michigan other than Harbaugh's.
3. Why don't we see or hear from Alex Spanos any longer? Could it be the narrative and coverage wasn't about the head coach? Could it be he was told to not be a "distraction" to the program? Notice how often our head coach mentions we're not "strong" enough?
4. How many games have we witnessed where our opponents practically beg us to gor for it on 4th down? It used to be cute now its just expected. And with the usual results. 4th and goal situations where 99% of competent coaches kick the FG but we can't because there is no urgency in developing a kicker who would've changed the outcome of many games last year.
5. Someone earlier mentioned all of the Pro and P5 interest that "forced" NU to offer this ridiculous contract extension.... Does anyone really think Pat Fitzgerald could coach Aaron Rogers? Does anyone think he can coach modern football players on the Bears or Chiefs with his rah rah meathead speech?
6. We don't and won't get coordinators here because anyone with talent or ambition would be a threat to his reign. He doesn't have any form of a coaching tree which is odd seeing that he's been here this long. Anybody find this odd that PFs former coaches don't leave and end up successful elsewhere? Any good coach has disciples across the football landscape. If he is so good and special why aren't other schools lining up to poach his assistants? Literally every coach in the B1G can say this but him. Why?