Credit Coach Collins

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

On the other end of the spectrum are the guys who would rather not shoot - Greer and Roper.
"Rather not shoot" is exactly right. Part of the reason Buie and Audige have to put up so many shots, sometimes bad ones, is that so many of the other players are just unwilling to take a shot. The two you mention (Greer being the worst offender) plus Simmons, and even Berry for stretches just won't shoot. That leads to Buie or Audige firing shots late in the shot clock or taking the early semi-open shot for fear that there won't be a better shot later after one of the others dribbles away the shot-clock.

Certainly there is an effect whereby reluctant shooters put more of the shot-taking burden on their teammates. If you put enough reluctant shooters out there together, the team suffers. But for Audige and Buie, this may be a positive because they want the ball.

Checking the stats, when we have had Audige, Greer and Roper on the court, we have outscored our opponents 18-14 (obviously a small sample). When it has been Buie, Greer and Roper it has been 83-67 in favor of NU over about 41 minutes of action.

 

[Figrating]

You know better than I do about how I feel about people?
You must be an amazing fortune teller.

I explained my logic. Some of us have been begging Collins to change his lineup and use Young more at the 5. He has gone the other way, slashing Young's minutes (and losing).
Fate intervenes and forces Collins to play Young at the 5 and bring Nicholson in as his backup. Exactly what "we" have been pleading for.
We win a stunner.
And you want me to credit the coach???

No different than if Nance had fouled out of a game when we were getting beaten and benchwarmer Young came in to rally the team to a victory.

If anything, it confirms what fair-minded people have been saying about Collins' misuse of his roster.

It took enormous effort to keep the team together with all recent crushing losses and coach them to this huge upset. But you can't see it. What else can it be?

 

[hoosboot]

It took enormous effort to keep the team together with all recent crushing losses and coach them to this huge upset. But you can't see it. What else can it be?

I'm not advocating that this is the case, but isn't there a completely valid argument to be made that CCC expended enormous effort and did incredible work keeping them team together with all the crushing losses AND that CCC never would have played Ryan Young and Matt Nicholson the minutes that they played if it weren't for Pete Nance's injury (and that, as a result, if Pete Nance had been healthy enough to play, the team might not have achieved this win)?

 

[phatcat]

I'm not advocating that this is the case, but isn't there a completely valid argument to be made that CCC expended enormous effort and did incredible work keeping them team together with all the crushing losses AND that CCC never would have played Ryan Young and Matt Nicholson the minutes that they played if it weren't for Pete Nance's injury (and that, as a result, if Pete Nance had been healthy enough to play, the team might not have achieved this win)?

yes to all. but he still deserves credit for the win, just as he deserves the lumps for the losses.

 

[GatoLouco]

I'm not advocating that this is the case, but isn't there a completely valid argument to be made that CCC expended enormous effort and did incredible work keeping them team together with all the crushing losses AND that CCC never would have played Ryan Young and Matt Nicholson the minutes that they played if it weren't for Pete Nance's injury (and that, as a result, if Pete Nance had been healthy enough to play, the team might not have achieved this win)?

All true, as well as it's true that without Nance we are probably marginally better than Nebraska.

Once MSU turned up the heat on defense, we showed enormous difficulty in scoring. And we were bailed out by Ryan Young. Nance's absence makes us extremely limited offensively.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

yes to all. but he still deserves credit for the win, just as he deserves the lumps for the losses.

Not surprising that I don't see it quite that simply.
To me, the coach gets credit when he does something significant to help the team win.
He deserves blame when he does things that impair our chances to win.

At least in the strategy and game-management departments.

 

[hdhntr1]

Ridiculous take!

It's all he knows

 

[hdhntr1]

Completely agree except it would be helpful if Berry got a few more quality shots per game as he has a great stroke when he’s squared up & reasonably set to shoot.

Question is if he is open. That sweet shot doesn't mean much if he is not open

 

[Zootcat]

Best is a concept that is highly debatable. If you put an EFG% column next to those numbers, you will probably conclude Audige, for example, takes too many shots.

As I saw those numbers, my reactions is one that a lot of us have had as we’ve discussed games so far this year - Nance should be on top, and Audige should take fewer shots.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

It's all he knows

Post something worth reading. Been waiting for awhile.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

All true, as well as it's true that without Nance we are probably marginally better than Nebraska.

Once MSU turned up the heat on defense, we showed enormous difficulty in scoring. And we were bailed out by Ryan Young. Nance's absence makes us extremely limited offensively.

Hey Gato:

Big picture of course you're likely right, but, looking at the play-by-play from the MSU game, these facts jump out...
When Young played against MSU with 3 of these guys (Buie, Audige, Beran, Berry -- aka "starters") we scored 25 points and gave up 25 points in about 16 minutes of game time. Not an offensive explosion, but not a disaster. About 62-62 pace.

When Nicholson played with 3 starters or more, we scored 25 points and gave up 17 in 7:40 of game time.
That has to be a record scoring frenzy for this roster. We were absolutely lighting it up. It projects to a mind-blowing 131-89 slaughter.

The other 16+ minutes, when it was either Nicholson or Young with 2 or more backups, we struggled badly on offense, scoring only 14 points and giving up 20. If we played like that for 40 minutes, we'd lose 50-35.

 

[GatoLouco]

Hey Gato:

Big picture of course you're likely right, but, looking at the play-by-play from the MSU game, these facts jump out...
When Young played against MSU with 3 of these guys (Buie, Audige, Beran, Berry -- aka "starters") we scored 25 points and gave up 25 points in about 16 minutes of game time. Not an offensive explosion, but not a disaster. About 62-62 pace.

When Nicholson played with 3 starters or more, we scored 25 points and gave up 17 in 7:40 of game time.
That has to be a record scoring frenzy for this roster. We were absolutely lighting it up. It projects to a mind-blowing 131-89 slaughter.

The other 16+ minutes, when it was either Nicholson or Young with 2 or more backups, we struggled badly on offense, scoring only 14 points and giving up 20. If we played like that for 40 minutes, we'd lose 50-35.

Those numbers look a lot like what I saw in the first, fairly high scoring half.

I saw completely different dynamics in the first and 2nd half. I saw MSU turning up the heat on defense in the 2nd. And a bit of, not surprisingly, our less experienced players not being so aggressive on offense. Which is to be expected.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I sensed they were more dialed in on Buie/Audige and the other players feeling the pressure as the end of the game approached. Except Ryan Young, who kinda won the game for us.

 

[SDakaGordie]

It's true and Roper's last rebound was poster worthy. But, IMO, CC should have put MN in for that rebound

I believe MN was in there.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I believe MN was in there.

You're both right. (I have it recorded)
Collins had MN jumping in front of the inbounds passer, then they called the bogus foul on Beran on the lob, putting Sparty at the free throw line.
MN got on the left block and Beran got on the right block, but Collins subbed Young in for Nicholson at the last moment.
Roper came from the spot next to Young to get the rebound. The two Spartans had tried to go outside Beran and Young and Roper filled the center of the lane.

 

[DaCat]

All true, as well as it's true that without Nance we are probably marginally better than Nebraska.

Well without Nance AND Williams we were marginally better than MSU. At least for one night. Credit Collins.

 

[Kat burglar]

We seem to play the ranked teams in the B1G in the first half of the schedule. 5 ranked teams vs 2.
Because of that, our record looks worse than it will probably be at the end.

We may still end up in the middle of the B1G