Dienhart is an Idiot

[corbi296]

Just came across this article. One of the best classes we have ever signed and this guy calls us a disappointment when just a few months earlier he wrote about how our class was one of the top in the nation. Is he this desperate for content to put out garbage like this with absolutely zero insight and analysis? Worthless.

http://btn.com/2017/12/20/recruiting-notebook-ohio-state-cleans-up-secures-nations-top-class/

 

[phatcat]

He's a tool. Didn't he pick Kentucky?

 

[Deeringfish]

Just came across this article. One of the best classes we have ever signed and this guy calls us a disappointment when just a few months earlier he wrote about how our class was one of the top in the nation. Is he this desperate for content to put out garbage like this with absolutely zero insight and analysis? Worthless.

http://btn.com/2017/12/20/recruiting-notebook-ohio-state-cleans-up-secures-nations-top-class/

I read it a little differently. He highlights all the very positive things that are happening at NU and is disappointed that more highly regarded recruits are not flocking to sign up.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Just came across this article. One of the best classes we have ever signed and this guy calls us a disappointment when just a few months earlier he wrote about how our class was one of the top in the nation. Is he this desperate for content to put out garbage like this with absolutely zero insight and analysis? Worthless.

http://btn.com/2017/12/20/recruiting-notebook-ohio-state-cleans-up-secures-nations-top-class/

He never strapped it on like me or Gladescat! Ok. I was only a high school starting cornerback for two games before I quit cuz some monster hit me so hard,I saw stars!

 

[DarthCat]

I read it a little differently. He highlights all the very positive things that are happening at NU and is disappointed that more highly regarded recruits are not flocking to sign up.

I agree with this and brought it up to much outrage on the board after the 2017 class signed. I expected to see us beating more of the ‘big boys’ on the recruiting offer lists for the kids we get. Nothing against anyone we get, and not that championship teams aren’t comprised of three stars. But I expected to see more kids picking NU with offers from Top P5 teams than we’ve seen. I know, I know, I know. Committing early curtails a kid’s offer list and kid’s rankings grow the longer they remain uncommitted. But to the untrained eye, who is just looking at final recruiting rankings and not caring to justify it like we do, it can appear where is room for us to improve in this area.

 

[Deeringfish]

I agree with this and brought it up to much outrage on the board after the 2017 class signed. I expected to see us beating more of the ‘big boys’ on the recruiting offer lists for the kids we get. Nothing against anyone we get, and not that championship teams aren’t comprised of three stars. But I expected to see more kids picking NU with offers from Top P5 teams than we’ve seen. I know, I know, I know. Committing early curtails a kid’s offer list and kid’s rankings grow the longer they remain uncommitted. But to the untrained eye, who is just looking at final recruiting rankings and not caring to justify it like we do, it can appear where is room for us to improve in this area.

The proof is in the pudding. NU has been getting the guys they want and the record shows we are improving year over year on a gradual upward trajectory. They will come because Fitz built it.

 

[DarthCat]

The proof is in the pudding. NU has been getting the guys they want and the record shows we are improving year over year on a gradual upward trajectory. They will come because Fitz built it.

Yep, largely we have been. You’re right, as was shown when someone posted the article about the ratio of offers made to commitments.

 

[willycat]

The proof is in the pudding. NU has been getting the guys they want and the record shows we are improving year over year on a gradual upward trajectory. They will come because Fitz built it.

maybe but if NU wants to get to Indianapolis then they need to out recruit Wisconsin, especially regarding lineman. Then it's time to go head to head and winn their share of recruiting battles vs. Pen St. and Michigan, along with TSISB.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I agree with this and brought it up to much outrage on the board after the 2017 class signed. I expected to see us beating more of the ‘big boys’ on the recruiting offer lists for the kids we get. Nothing against anyone we get, and not that championship teams aren’t comprised of three stars. But I expected to see more kids picking NU with offers from Top P5 teams than we’ve seen. I know, I know, I know. Committing early curtails a kid’s offer list and kid’s rankings grow the longer they remain uncommitted. But to the untrained eye, who is just looking at final recruiting rankings and not caring to justify it like we do, it can appear where is room for us to improve in this area.

Expecting a significant bump before the facility actually opens is premature.

 

[Deeringfish]

Expecting a significant bump before the facility actually opens is premature.

I agree, we have seen a little uptick recruiting. Maybe a little was the promise of the building. Next years recruits will actually see the building but they will need at least 2 years after that to develop. It will be 6 years before we field a team that has been recruited and developed with the advantages of Taj Fitz. It should be exciting to watch but there will be some foibles along the way.

 

[corbi296]

I read it a little differently. He highlights all the very positive things that are happening at NU and is disappointed that more highly regarded recruits are not flocking to sign up.

My point is that this class does represent an uptick in recruiting that in my opinion started with the 2014 Thorson/JJ class. There is no real insight/analysis that is reflected in his rankings and that to me is ridiculous for a guy who is supposed to be writing an article about recruiting. If all he did is rank classes based on star ratings from recruiting sites, then what is the point? A monkey could write that article.

 

[NJCat]

A monkey could write that article.

Perhaps it did....

FWIW, the 2018 class has the second highest average 247 rating since the stellar 2014 class. And those 4 other classes have been very solid on the field. Not worried about the incoming class of 2018 in the least.

 

[pawildcat]

I agree, we have seen a little uptick recruiting. Maybe a little was the promise of the building. Next years recruits will actually see the building but they will need at least 2 years after that to develop. It will be 6 years before we field a team that has been recruited and developed with the advantages of Taj Fitz. It should be exciting to watch but there will be some foibles along the way.

There was a recent thread on the Rutgers board where they basically went gaga over the facility. Something along the lines of, "Who wouldn't want to go there after they build that?"

 

[Deeringfish]

There was a recent thread on the Rutgers board where they basically went gaga over the facility. Something along the lines of, "Who wouldn't want to go there after they build that?"

I can't wait for the thread when Fitz says, "Sorry Mr 5star, your grades are good enough but the kids in the cafeteria say your a Turd. So no offer. We have better options."

 

[NJCat]

I can't wait for the thread when Fitz says, "Sorry Mr 5star, your grades are good enough but the kids in the cafeteria say your a Turd. So no offer. We have better options."

I could definitely see it happening, and that's something I respect about Fitz.

 

[DaCat]

I could definitely see it happening, and that's something I respect about Fitz.

I'm sure it's happened already.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I'm sure it's happened already.

It has, less the “five-star” part. Nobody in the program gives a crap about stars.

 

[mikewebb68]

Just came across this article. One of the best classes we have ever signed and this guy calls us a disappointment when just a few months earlier he wrote about how our class was one of the top in the nation. Is he this desperate for content to put out garbage like this with absolutely zero insight and analysis? Worthless.

http://btn.com/2017/12/20/recruiting-notebook-ohio-state-cleans-up-secures-nations-top-class/

Fairly certain that both of Dienhart's readers were impressed by the article. As much as I am not a fan of Teddy G.. at least he has an audience.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I think some of us are a little touchy here. Big deal he called this class a disappointment. That’s easy to do when the services ( including Rivals) only rate 1 of our recruits as a 4 star. He is just reading rankings . I think we have a few more 3 stars that could legitimately be rated higher. He isn’t watching film on each schools recruits.

Millen the 2019 QB recruit is a great example that if you look at his film and compare it to the other 4 star QB’s we offered and tell me you see a noticeable difference? In fact, I think you can make a case he looks better than most of them.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Stop caring about star ratings.

 

[mikewebb68]

I feel like we should not be having a discussion of star ratings without Glades. Is there a special signal that I can use to summon him, a la the batsignal?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Stop caring about star ratings.

No

 

[gocatsgo2003]

No

Disagree.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Disagree.

I know. Let me ask your perspective on how much recruits look at the perceived talent coming in with them. Would our chances to get a look from top WR’s improve if we had landed a Hunter Johnson or even if Millen was a 4 star? Players know players when they see one, but if we recruit nationally they may not know anything other than what they read. I am more concerned about building that talent momentum where players want to play with perceived studs. I didn’t work in the recruiting office so I could be off base, but I would think more 4 stars breeds more 4 stars interest.

 

[StreamCat]

Disagree.

So?

 

[SciCat]

No

1) Who does a better job of assessing talent and fit..the coaches or the recruiting services?

2) Do the recruiting services fairly evaluate all propeects or are some prospects promoted better than others?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

So?

Good talk.

 

[pnt16]

I know. Let me ask your perspective on how much recruits look at the perceived talent coming in with them. Would our chances to get a look from top WR’s improve if we had landed a Hunter Johnson or even if Millen was a 4 star? Players know players when they see one, but if we recruit nationally they may not know anything other than what they read. I am more concerned about building that talent momentum where players want to play with perceived studs. I didn’t work in the recruiting office so I could be off base, but I would think more 4 stars breeds more 4 stars interest.

I agree. There is a reason our corners struggle and we have no explosive options on the outside. Cause we do not land top tier athletes that are need to play those positions, and the more athletic a player is the higher rated he will be normally. There is a reason Ohio State dominates the big ten, they land top tier athletes who are highly ranked. There's a reason Alabama wins national titles, they land the top class in the nation more often than not. All the teams in the playoff average a recruiting ranking in the top ten. Yes, there are some outliers like a Wisconsin, but even Wisconsin has been landing higher level athletes than us. To take the next step as a program and compete for conference titles we need to step up our recruiting and start landing the higher ranked kids we offer. It is not like NU only offers three star players, we want and offer 4/5 star kids but we can not land them yet. If you don't think the kids check out their recruiting rankings and look at what they are for their fellow recruits you are not with the times. Kids wanna play with other highly ranked talented kids who can make plays.

 

[NU Houston]

I agree. There is a reason our corners struggle and we have no explosive options on the outside. Cause we do not land top tier athletes that are need to play those positions, and the more athletic a player is the higher rated he will be normally.

Westphal and R. Campbell are two 4-star DBs in recent recruiting classes, and neither has seen much playing time due to injuries. Campbell will still hopefully have a strong career at NU.

Watkins, projected to be the starting CB this season and last, ended up missing both due to knee injuries. Harris retired early last season as a result of multiple concussions. Just imagine how strong that group would have been the last couple of years without the injuries to those four players.

NU has had good to excellent CB play from lower rated guys over the past decade, including McManis, Mabin, VanHoose, and Harris. There have been some solid players at that position in recent classes, and hopefully they can stay healthy and see the field.

 

[Turk]

Just came across this article. One of the best classes we have ever signed and this guy calls us a disappointment when just a few months earlier he wrote about how our class was one of the top in the nation. Is he this desperate for content to put out garbage like this with absolutely zero insight and analysis? Worthless.

http://btn.com/2017/12/20/recruiting-notebook-ohio-state-cleans-up-secures-nations-top-class/

I think his article is actually fairly accurate. I'm also disappointed as I was more hopeful that the new facility, the bowl victory last year, etc., would have attracted more of our A List players. Not that we settled but it is pretty clear that we simply are not competing consistently with the "Top" schools for recruits. If you believe this class is stellar then it only means that myself and others have overrated the interest that Top programs have with recruits. Not saying that you are wrong, but I'm not comfortable with this class when I'm thinking of having to get by Wisconsin and OSU for not only a division crown but a Big Title. A careful look at all of the recruits that we offered shows that we couldn't compete with other more established programs once our targets started receiving offers from the big boys. Sure, we always get an exception, and it does appear that this class doesn't have any last minute reaches just to fill up the class, but we are only competing consistently with the Purdue's, Minny's, Iowa's, at best in recruiting. Give a lot of credit to our strength coach. Something is making these otherwise pedestrian 3 stars into monster beast. I mean, I don't think our players came in as studs, I really don't and I don't think you do either, but many have become studs and physical specimans in short time.

While disappointed that we finished last in the big ten in recruiting, according to rivals (sorta mirrors what the BTN said) and 60th nationally, it's not a deal breaker. Credit to our strength coach and Fitz. Sure would be nice to get a monster OL recruit who already has a senior body, but it just hasn't happened. I know Fitz offered some big studs but they just didn't seem to be really interested. I may be wrong, but I don't think they see Cushing as part of their NFL Path.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I think his article is actually fairly accurate. I'm also disappointed as I was more hopeful that the new facility, the bowl victory last year, etc., would have attracted more of our A List players. Not that we settled but it is pretty clear that we simply are not competing consistently with the "Top" schools for recruits. If you believe this class is stellar then it only means that myself and others have overrated the interest that Top programs have with recruits. Not saying that you are wrong, but I'm not comfortable with this class when I'm thinking of having to get by Wisconsin and OSU for not only a division crown but a Big Title. A careful look at all of the recruits that we offered shows that we couldn't compete with other more established programs once our targets started receiving offers from the big boys. Sure, we always get an exception, and it does appear that this class doesn't have any last minute reaches just to fill up the class, but we are only competing consistently with the Purdue's, Minny's, Iowa's, at best in recruiting. Give a lot of credit to our strength coach. Something is making these otherwise pedestrian 3 stars into monster beast. I mean, I don't think our players came in as studs, I really don't and I don't think you do either, but many have become studs and physical specimans in short time.

While disappointed that we finished last in the big ten in recruiting, according to rivals (sorta mirrors what the BTN said) and 60th nationally, it's not a deal breaker. Credit to our strength coach and Fitz. Sure would be nice to get a monster OL recruit who already has a senior body, but it just hasn't happened. I know Fitz offered some big studs but they just didn't seem to be really interested. I may be wrong, but I don't think they see Cushing as part of their NFL Path.

Or star ratings are crap.

We are getting good players.

 

[Turk]

Or star ratings are crap.

We are getting good players.

I agree, we are getting good players. Not great ones. But, I can point to some who certainly look a helluva lot bigger than they did when they signed and are playing 5 star levels. Gaziano isn't the only one. I think at some point, more credit needs to go to the strength coach. Something is different than the same ole NU.
I'm seeing too many beast on defense who are still under classmen.

I mean, Gaziano simply didn't impress most scouts who get paid to find recruits, although he impressed Fitz enough to offer. With all the video, etc. Same thing happens in the pros on draft day. Some teams draft players way too high with many first rounders not living up to expectations but some middle rounders ending up all pro.

I do think our OL recruits have been seriously on the average level and wish this to pick up some day but I don't think they envision playing for Cushing in a path that leads to the NFL.

All of this said, when Fitz introduced the class, trusting what he says about his recruits is easy, even if we don't get any 4 stars. It would be nice to get a 5 star but they almost never last here, presumably due to ego, dunno. How the hell did we get Paddy Fisher? Or maybe the question is how the hell did Paddy Fisher only get recognized with 3 stars? It wasn't like he was playing at an under the radar school.

I'm almost not believing the star system. But it can't possibly be 100% fake news. Weird, our defense, and its depth, is straight up one of the best in the country and I doubt it gets manhandled by any team, but it's all 3 stars and some 2 stars. I guess stars are also political, dunno. Alabama offers someone and they immediately go from no star to 5 star or from 3 star to 4 star. We offer someone and we don't move their rating unless they are a 4 star. In that case, it usually ends up like Earnest Brown where they drop to a 3 star.

Glades may be right.

 

[ubercat]

I feel like we should not be having a discussion of star ratings without Glades. Is there a special signal that I can use to summon him, a la the batsignal?

I've used the tried and true trollery: Elephants descended from Mastodons.

 

[pnt16]

Westphal and R. Campbell are two 4-star DBs in recent recruiting classes, and neither has seen much playing time due to injuries. Campbell will still hopefully have a strong career at NU.

Watkins, projected to be the starting CB this season and last, ended up missing both due to knee injuries. Harris retired early last season as a result of multiple concussions. Just imagine how strong that group would have been the last couple of years without the injuries to those four players.

NU has had good to excellent CB play from lower rated guys over the past decade, including McManis, Mabin, VanHoose, and Harris. There have been some solid players at that position in recent classes, and hopefully they can stay healthy and see the field.

That is exactly why we need to recruit better players at CB, we have to be prepared to succeed even when decimated with injuries. McShepard, Williams, Mayo, and even Hartage were all low ranked players and to be honest have played like lower tier players. They definitely have been the weakest link on the defense. And it happens to be that CB has been our lowest ranked area of recruiting in the past few seasons. One four star, and a bunch of low three/two stars. We need to land better and higher ranked players to increase our CB depth. Landing Newsome was good start and hopefully we can add Taiyon Palmer.

 

[NU Houston]

That is exactly why we need to recruit better players at CB, we have to be prepared to succeed even when decimated with injuries. McShepard, Williams, Mayo, and even Hartage were all low ranked players and to be honest have played like lower tier players. They definitely have been the weakest link on the defense. And it happens to be that CB has been our lowest ranked area of recruiting in the past few seasons. One four star, and a bunch of low three/two stars. We need to land better and higher ranked players to increase our CB depth. Landing Newsome was good start and hopefully we can add Taiyon Palmer.

So you want a roster stocked with four and five star recruits in order to avoid a drop off in talent if a position group is decimated with injuries? Got it. That's a tall order, even at a football factory like Alabama or Ohio State.

Brian Bullock is another CB who was lost to injury this season. So by my count, that's him, Watkins, Campbell and Williams who missed all or part of this season due to injuries, along with Harris last year.

Remember, McShepard was moved to WR before last season because of the talent and depth at the CB position. Then all the injuries happened and he was moved back to corner. Imagine if Igwebuike and K. Quiero had gone down with injuries this season. Would you then have complained about the lack of recruiting talent at the safety position?

 

[pnt16]

So you want a roster stocked with four and five star recruits in order to avoid a drop off in talent if a position group is decimated with injuries? Got it. That's a tall order, even at a football factory like Alabama or Ohio State.

Brian Bullock is another CB who was lost to injury this season. So by my count, that's him, Watkins, Campbell and Williams who missed all or part of this season due to injuries, along with Harris last year.

Remember, McShepard was moved to WR before last season because of the talent and depth at the CB position. Then all the injuries happened and he was moved back to corner. Imagine if Igwebuike and K. Quiero had gone down with injuries this season. Would you then have complained about the lack of recruiting talent at the safety position?

That is not what I am saying at all. I do not think Northwestern will ever land a 5 star, and only expect 4 stars occasionally. I am saying that if you look at our recruiting rankings and the level of recruit we land at CB, you can easily tell it was our shakiest position in terms of depth. Especially since most defenses call for at least three high quality CBs. I think Fitz is definitely adressing that need now with Newsome and recently giving and offer to another near 4 star in Palmer.
And for safety we have great depth. JR Pace, Austin Hiller, Bryce Jackson are all higher ranked than all the corners we have landed outside of Campbell. And McGee is a very good player, which I understand does not help validate my point in landing higher ranked players. Westphal is also a safety for us, not a corner. Even if we lost either Queiro or Igwebuike, we have the depth to withstand that. Pace and McGee could both start.

And Harris retired well over a year ago, we had time to address his loss. And McShepard was moved to WR because we were so weak in that area too, which is the second biggest need I complained about in my original post.

 

[pnt16]

You can even tell our desperation with the position as we had to flip Montre and Trae Williams last minute.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

So you want a roster stocked with four and five star recruits in order to avoid a drop off in talent if a position group is decimated with injuries? Got it. That's a tall order, even at a football factory like Alabama or Ohio State.

Brian Bullock is another CB who was lost to injury this season. So by my count, that's him, Watkins, Campbell and Williams who missed all or part of this season due to injuries, along with Harris last year.

Remember, McShepard was moved to WR before last season because of the talent and depth at the CB position. Then all the injuries happened and he was moved back to corner. Imagine if Igwebuike and K. Quiero had gone down with injuries this season. Would you then have complained about the lack of recruiting talent at the safety position?

Probably. Some people really like to complain.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

You can even tell our desperation with the position as we had to flip Montre and Trae Williams last minute.

Huh?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

That is not what I am saying at all. I do not think Northwestern will ever land a 5 star, and only expect 4 stars occasionally. I am saying that if you look at our recruiting rankings and the level of recruit we land at CB, you can easily tell it was our shakiest position in terms of depth. Especially since most defenses call for at least three high quality CBs. I think Fitz is definitely adressing that need now with Newsome and recently giving and offer to another near 4 star in Palmer.
And for safety we have great depth. JR Pace, Austin Hiller, Bryce Jackson are all higher ranked than all the corners we have landed outside of Campbell. And McGee is a very good player, which I understand does not help validate my point in landing higher ranked players. Westphal is also a safety for us, not a corner. Even if we lost either Queiro or Igwebuike, we have the depth to withstand that. Pace and McGee could both start.

And Harris retired well over a year ago, we had time to address his loss. And McShepard was moved to WR because we were so weak in that area too, which is the second biggest need I complained about in my original post.

The injuries at CB this year would have been more akin to losing Igwebuike, Queiro, and McGee early then Pace later on.