Do not understand
- Thread starter Aging Booster
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He has to sign papers, right? I assume transfers don't just happen by word of mouth and the honor system.
Wrong. If he has a scholarship and takes any steps to tarnish the school, then the terms of his agreement allow them to terminate. Why would he mess with it? He has a free ride on possibly a contentious scenario. He is winning and NU is not. No way he jeopardizes and talks...at least until he scholarship ends.
Wrong. You can simply leave and never return. I transferred into NU from anothet smaller D1 program. I left on great terms and my coach knew i was looking after the season ended. At the post season team gathering, I shared my intent. I never signed anything there.
He might not wish to, but if he's been wronged, he definitely has every right. NU was very kind to let Johnny keep it this past year...
Not without jeopardizing his ride, $100k wager. Easy for you to play with his life, tougher for him. He must know about all the nasty things many of you say about him. If untrue or misleading, must really bother him but he's seemingly smart enough to not risk his ride.
I bet we have not heard the end. Sometime within the next 3 years, i bet more versions are revealed. Cannot force him to sign a confidentiality agreement without paying him off. Scholarship wouldn't count, he already had it.
*shrug* I'm not playing with his life. I'm merely saying he has a right to legally speak out if he's been wronged by the school.
Everybody in this country has the right to speak. If you shout bomb in many venues, exercising your right comes with a price. For Vassar, his price is $100k. That's pretty steep in his position. Cost v benefit analysis also says it's pretty dumb.
And, so far, he hasn't been wronged. They have honored their contract.
He may have been wronged on this message board...I wonder if suing for defamation against an NU fan could be considered a violation of the image policy, or one of the other clauses...Would success be considered financial gain jeopardizing amateur status as the underlying cause of action related to basketball...would he have any damages that he could establish....is he held to the public figure status at this point...
Va and yesterday- is your home owners paid up? That's where you would likely send tge claim
You really need to stop making this stuff up as you go along. A school will not talk to you without written permission from the original school's athletic director. NCAA refers to it as a "permission to contact."
If you can just get up and go, why did Jarrod Uthoff have so many well-publicized problems from Bo?
Or AJ Thurman.
Or initially Ricky Doyle.
Or initially Spike Albrecht
Or DeAnthony Arnett.
Shall I keep going?
Read and learn about the process (http://collegeconnectiontours.com/college-transfer-policies-under-criticism/)
I'm not saying this is what happened at all with Vassar. But there is obviously an agreement needed by both sides. I can completely see the possibility (as much as any of these other factless scenarios) of Vassar saying he would leave, Collins agreeing, Vassar changing his mind, Collins not letting him back on the court, a phone call from Vassar's lawyer and NU takes the conservative approach and let's him stay in school.
I transferred with no written agreement. That simple. Sec - have you been a D1 athlete? I have.
Doesn't mean there are not rules. Your record transfers with you. I received a waiver of the one year rule after I signed. But you do not need permission to talk to schools. You need permission for schools to talk to you. I knew the places I wanted to target, I initiated contact and that allowed them to talk to me.
Type all you want. I lived it. Early 90s. Maybe something has changed but I speak from experience.
And Vassar's lawyer? Without violating any of the amateur rules and other provisions of his contract with the school, where does he now have a lawyer? Frickin society. Everybody talks about their lawyer. No contingency opportunity here. Nothing to meaningfully sue over. So,how is he forking over a few thousand dollar retainer for what again?
Geez, the brilliance on these boards can be blinding.
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You are not correct. It really amazes me how our fans run with things that they don't seem to know anything about.
I'm not 'his lawyer' so I'm not about to dig up all the negative posts or insinuations you placed. Either you are being cute or are ignorant to your messages, either case doesn't entice me to engage.
That's not my experience. I lived it, too. Late 70's. I contacted the HC at Wheaton College to discuss transferring. I was IMMEDIATELY asked if I had talked with the NU HC and AD about a release. I said no, I hadn't. He told me that he couldn't talk to me until I had obtained a release from the AD. In other words, I needed permission from NU for other schools to discuss a transfer with me. You make it sound like all you had to do for other schools to talk to you is to simply contact them.
If he's looking for another school to transfer to, why would he be expected to participate in summer workouts?
Exactly. But his efforts to transfer weren't successful so he wanted back on the team at the end of the summer. There's where the "clash" began...
That was my experience. NU, Miami (OH), IL, and ND. I worked out extensively at the NU facilities over a few breaks and had gotten to know the coaches. That was my target. Everyone except ND offered preferred walk on and I was destined for UoI when my NU offer came through mid summer along with my admission. Never knew it was coming - coach called day after it arrived. I was signed, sealed and on the way to my dad's fax machine on Western Avenue when I got the message. Looking back, a whole different world I guess.
Afterwards, I worked with the athletic department to obtain a waiver on the one year rule. Since I knew it wasn't a problem, might have factored in NU's decision. Anyway, signed some paperwork and the athletic department took care of the rest. Had to sit in on a few orientations - one for athletes, another for scholarships, another for my team. Late summer if memory is correct. They covered all the rules. No Facebook back then so basically the takeaways relevant to here: no direct media contact, definition and warnings about boosters and how to lose your scholarship. Stuff about grades, tutors, registration, meals, etc.
So much going on and finally being on a big time college campus - everything was quite amazing. But like a job, you get routines, learn the people and hang with the co-workers. I can say first hand, across revenue and non-revenue sports, NU does not offer charity. Whether you leave due to your own issues, or get forced off against your will, scholarships are pulled - by administrative process if necessary. And it is not infrequent. Several times a year across all sports - and just about everybody knows too.
So CCC wasn't miffed at JV not participating in summer workouts. I assume CCC would understand his not participating in summer workouts because he was looking to transfer. He was miffed that he thought he could come back on the team after initially blowing off the team. There's a difference there.
Sort of, yeah. He was miffed that he wanted back on the team after he had essentially quit the team and had missed all the summer workouts and such.
Not disagreeing here. My take:
- CCC has frank conversation with Vassar, Vassar says ok, then I will go
- Vassr looks around and not finding anything, probably takes counsel from some that explain he is getting a raw deal
- meanwhile NU AD announces transfer. Presuming transfer, they overlook Vassar's failures to participate and also fail to secure a release from the schollie
- Vassar changes his mind, tells CCC he plans to stay, CCC says no way
- faced with admin hearing and various appeals including to NCAA, which would eventually become public, NU decides to expel from team but not attack schollie
- all parties know NU is not happy about the schollie and if Vassar breaks any covenant, it will be pursued aggressively
- Vassar smartly stays out of public eye, doesn't get in trouble, makes grades and enjoys his free, high caliber education
Look back in my posts and this is what I have always believed. CCC fvcked up not pursuing the release when Vassar agreed to go. That simple. From that point on, I'm on Vassar's side all the way. All CCC has to do is bring him back and hope he either develops or gives him another opportunity to revoke the scholarship.
But had you told your coaches at your initial school that you were leaving/transferring? If you had, then they likely granted a release, and it was fine to contact and have conversations with other schools.
Absolutely told them, never filled out any paperwork or signed anything which was the original point.
I think the reality is JV's stated wish to transfer (as well as possible coach and team interaction issues) explains most of CCC's unwillingness to have him back on the team. He must have asked for a release to be able to communicate with other schools. The process of asking for a release is pretty 'final' in terms of severing ties with the team. At least that's how I felt at the time (may not have been the case). Maybe he never asked for that release or it was never formalized.
I don't recall signing anything, either. I asked for it and it was granted, but that was 40 years ago and I might have forgotten the details. However, again, I don't recall signing anything.
I have to agree with Glades. As an athlete that transferred into NU there are very strict rules. These rules have been in place for decades. I got to transfer because my program was dropped, which was somewhat unique. Your memory might be a bit hazy on the process, as the rules are very tight.
Not necessarily. CCC encourages a move, Vassar relents and looks around but doesn't find anything to beat his current deal. Tells CCC that he will not be leaving and CCC says he will not be on the team. Vassar keeps schollie but remains off team. If it was Vassar's intent, like many others that have abandoned NU, the AD would have been on it. I suspect this is a much rarer case of encouraging a guy to leave...and then having him bounce back.
He just said he also doesn't recall signing anything. Look closer at Secs post. Permission to contact is different than permission to communicate if the athlete contacted you.
But I can also agree about a hazy memory, we are talking almost 20 years ago.
He didn't "relent" anything. He chose to transfer, then stared looking elsewhere...
40 years ago! Damn glades, you are old. Did they have rock tablets and outhouses back then
40 years ago! Damn glades, you are old. Did they have rock tablets and outhouses back then
It was 39.5 years ago. I didn't drive a Flintstone car back then. NU still has outhouses.
It's what happened. You're implying hat CCC tried to convince Vassar to transfer...that isn't true. He did tell him that he had a lot of work to do before he would see quality minutes. Vassar thought he was already good enough, so he decided to go play somewhere else. Instead, he's not playing at all...
You didn't sign anything either, correct? Schools definitely cannot contact you without your AD granting a release.
Sounds reasonable, but without being at that meeting between CCC and JV, one cannot absolutely be certain of the nature of that conversation, how the situation for JV was spelled out, etc.
Of course not...though I think it's pretty accurate, especially considering the silence from both parties. I think Vassar knows he's pretty fortunate to still have strong financial aid coming in.
