Eastern Illinois

[shakes3858]

If anyone believes that Feli isn't doing some type of annoying schtick where he'll argue the same point over and over based on 1 small piece of evidence, that person is insane. He pretty much has crapped on our win over Stanford because of the kickoff time and the time zone difference. Now he's arguing our win over EIU was great because of 11 FBS transfers or something which he initially did to question the coaching staffs decision to pull out Thorson. He even is using the metric that EIU isn't that bad because we didn't score touchdowns every time we had the ball even calling 3 points "a lowly field goal." Then you add in the 355PF... argument that he made over the course of maybe 5 years before Louie told him that everyone was tired of reading it.

At some points, I think how far he'll go with the schtick is funny. Then he doesn't change his argument. He just retypes it with different words in an attempt to infuriate. Then I get bored of it and then angered by it. I think everyone should leave him alone though. When people don't respond, he'll give up.

 

[hdhntr1]

If anyone believes that Feli isn't doing some type of annoying schtick where he'll argue the same point over and over based on 1 small piece of evidence, that person is insane. He pretty much has crapped on our win over Stanford because of the kickoff time and the time zone difference. Now he's arguing our win over EIU was great because of 11 FBS transfers or something which he initially did to question the coaching staffs decision to pull out Thorson. He even is using the metric that EIU isn't that bad because we didn't score touchdowns every time we had the ball even calling 3 points "a lowly field goal." Then you add in the 355PF... argument that he made over the course of maybe 5 years before Louie told him that everyone was tired of reading it.

At some points, I think how far he'll go with the schtick is funny. Then he doesn't change his argument. He just retypes it with different words in an attempt to infuriate. Then I get bored of it and then angered by it. I think everyone should leave him alone though. When people don't respond, he'll give up.

While I have had issues with things he has said/posted in the past, I have less problem with this set of statements. Save the wrath for when he deserves it. I doubt you will have to wait long.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I didn't say it required watching the game. I said that ever point he makes is exclusively through "research", not observation. Why is it too much to expect that someone who claims to be an NU fan say whether they've ever watched a game?

Ok then I will say it for you. How the Sam Hill can anyone say with any conviction a team is good OR bad without ever seeing them play. I saw them and they looked bad that day. To say they are decent because they took ISU to OT and they have a handful of FBS recruits with some high school pedigree ignores the eye test of actually seeing them perform.

Look Feli is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else, but this whole EIU thread morphed from his point that Fitz missed a chance to play the back up QB's in a normal offensive set. This is consistent with attacks on Fitz over the last year. Watch the game, this isn't fantasy football.

 

[No Chores]

Ok then I will say it for you. How the Sam Hill can anyone say with any conviction a team is good OR bad without ever seeing them play. I saw them and they looked bad that day. To say they are decent because they took ISU to OT and they have a handful of FBS recruits with some high school pedigree ignores the eye test of actually seeing them perform.

Look Feli is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else, but this whole EIU thread morphed from his point that Fitz missed a chance to play the back up QB's in a normal offensive set. This is consistent with attacks on Fitz over the last year. Watch the game, this isn't fantasy football.

Like many others in this thread, you've missed the point. There are a bunch of teams this year that I've evaluated without ever having seen them play. The pollsters do it every week! The points made by Felis were sound, well researched and supportive of NU. Try to understand this.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Like many others in this thread, you've missed the point. There are a bunch of teams this year that I've evaluated without ever having seen them play. The pollsters do it every week! The points made by Felis were sound, well researched and supportive of NU. Try to understand this.

Great, congratulations on evaluating teams without ever seeing them. This is the exact point most of complain about with the pollsters. EIU might be as good as Feli states or others think, but his argument loses all credibility when we know he has never seen them play. Not a difficult concept for most to understand.

 

[villox]

Like many others in this thread, you've missed the point. There are a bunch of teams this year that I've evaluated without ever having seen them play. The pollsters do it every week! The points made by Felis were sound, well researched and supportive of NU. Try to understand this.

You've missed the point. Pollsters don't claim to be NU fans. Felis does, but there's no evidence he actually is. Whether he makes good research points (which imho he does not) is irrelevant. He's a liar.

 

[MRCat95]

The points made by Felis were sound, well researched and supportive of NU. Try to understand this.

Nope. They were well researched, but not sound. Felis could make a valiant effort arguing that the sky is green. He'd cherry pick facts and figures that support his case (or vastly overstate their relevance) and ignore all the relevant facts and figures that easily contradict his case.

I'd rather go through life with my eyes open. Yup, the sky is still blue.

 

[MRCat95]

The fact the AP voters and, especially, COACHES, gave us additional points (significantly) proves that THEY view EIU as a relatively respectable opponent, and that beating them (together with Stanford!) made us deserving of a top 25 spot (which beating Stanford alone didn't).

Exhibit A of drawing the wrong conclusion from the facts. The reason NU went up in the polls was because other top 25 teams lost. We would have ended up virtually in the same place had we defeated "bye week."

Nice try, Felis.

I cannot believe I'm still discussing this.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

The reason NU went up in the polls was because other top 25 teams lost. We would have ended up virtually in the same place had we defeated "bye week.".

And your proof is....
I get it...You SAY so...right?

 

[MRCat95]

And your proof is....
I get it...You SAY so...right?

Did you watch the game?

NU moved up 5 spot from #28 to #23.

4 top 25 teams lost including Arkansas (18), Boise State(20), Mississippi State (25) and Tennessee (23). BYU (27) who was one spot ahead of NU also lost.

You do the math...

The sky is still blue with or without the empirical analysis.

 

[No Chores]

Nope. They were well researched, but not sound. Felis could make a valiant effort arguing that the sky is green. He'd cherry pick facts and figures that support his case (or vastly overstate their relevance) and ignore all the relevant facts and figures that easily contradict his case.

I'd rather go through life with my eyes open. Yup, the sky is still blue.

You've missed the point. Pollsters don't claim to be NU fans. Felis does, but there's no evidence he actually is. Whether he makes good research points (which imho he does not) is irrelevant. He's a liar.

Great, congratulations on evaluating teams without ever seeing them. This is the exact point most of complain about with the pollsters. EIU might be as good as Feli states or others think, but his argument loses all credibility when we know he has never seen them play. Not a difficult concept for most to understand.

You are the one who does not understand. Felis made some excellent points about EIU based upon a factual analysis of their roster and their performance against some other opponents. For example, their quarterback started 14 games for the University of Kentucky. Like villox, you might not agree with his analysis, but neither of you has said why you disagree with it, except to say that he has never gone to games or is a liar. What Felis said about EIU, in fact, was actually quite supportive of NU's football program. MRCat's criticism relates to a different issue. Namely, Felis suggested that NU jumped up in the rankings on account of it's victory over a pretty good EIU team. I would agree with MRCat that it is not possible to reach that conclusion based on factual data. There are a number of games this weekend that I won't be watching because I will be in attendance at the Ball State game. However, I'll be able to evaluate virtually all of the teams I was unable to watch based on the statistics. So will villox, Purple Pile Driver and MRCat. Here's an example from last week: North Carolina was far superior to Illinois.

 

[mikewebb68]

Like many others in this thread, you've missed the point. There are a bunch of teams this year that I've evaluated without ever having seen them play. The pollsters do it every week! The points made by Felis were sound, well researched and supportive of NU. Try to understand this.

I missed this Feli being "supportive of NU" concept in using the EIU game to attack our coaches late-game management. Please feel free to show me the error of my ways....

 

[mikewebb68]

You are the one who does not understand. Felis made some excellent points about EIU based upon a factual analysis of their roster and their performance against some other opponents. For example, their quarterback started 14 games for the University of Kentucky. Like villox, you might not agree with his analysis, but neither of you has said why you disagree with it, except to say that he has never gone to games or is a liar. What Felis said about EIU, in fact, was actually quite supportive of NU's football program. MRCat's criticism relates to a different issue. Namely, Felis suggested that NU jumped up in the rankings on account of it's victory over a pretty good EIU team. I would agree with MRCat that it is not possible to reach that conclusion based on factual data. There are a number of games this weekend that I won't be watching because I will be in attendance at the Ball State game. However, I'll be able to evaluate virtually all of the teams I was unable to watch based on the statistics. So will villox, Purple Pile Driver and MRCat. Here's an example from last week: North Carolina was far superior to Illinois.

Based on the statistics from the first two games, you would have been deluded into thinking that Ilinois was a top-25 caliber team. However, if you actually watched the two games, you would have noticed that Illinois's two opponents arguably played at the same level or even worse than EIU played against us. This is what one misses by not watching the games.

I am active participant on several message boards, and Felis is 100% troll. He is not trolling any less with his EIU commentary than he is with his other nonsense. If you do not realze this, this is your problem, and not anyone else's.

 

[villox]

You are the one who does not understand. Felis made some excellent points about EIU based upon a factual analysis of their roster and their performance against some other opponents.

But I don't care whether he has excellent points or not (and he does not). I care whether he is misrepresenting himself as an NU fan and whether he uses his "analysis" to find various ways to attack the coaches or program (he does). You're starting to act like him, responding to arguments people aren't actually making. Are you friends with him and in on the act or something?

 

[MRCat95]

Like villox, you might not agree with his analysis, but neither of you has said why you disagree with it, except to say that he has never gone to games or is a liar.

I addressed in nauseating detail in another thread point-by-point why Felis' interpretation of the facts was highly flawed, including how EIU's roster of 13 BCS and FBS rejects was not impressive (compared to our roster of 85 largely successful BCS players). I will also add that EIU's Kentucky transfer QB (as if being a QB at Kentucky means anything) plays offense making him irrelevant to the discussion of the value of a rep against EIU's truly awful defense. (He was also not a very impressive QB even if he was a decent athlete.)

The most compelling evidence was my own eyes that witnessed Corey Acker and Tom Hruby running through EIU's defensive scrubs like a hot knife through warm butter. The sky is blue and EIU's reserves were completely overmatched even by our 2nd and 3rd string players. In terms of failing to run our "normal offense," when was the last time our "normal offense" passed the ball on 1st down (against the likes of Stanford and Duke)? When was the last time we passed the ball on 2nd down and 2-3? We barely got to 3rd down against EIU for crying out loud! Of the three drives we failed to score in the second half, the first ended with a 3rd down incomplete pass by Thorson. The 2nd ended with a fumble by Auston Anderson after ripping off a huge gain. The third ended when EIU's "vaunted" defense kept Tom Hruby out of the end zone after Fitz uncharacteristicly ran a play at the end of regulation (to try to get Rhuby a TD) he did not have to run.

Again, it's valid to argue garbage reps against an awful team have value. (I happen to disagree with that because EIU was that terrible.) However, it's not valid to argue that EIU was anything but a completely and totally overmatched opponent, especially by the late 3rd and 4th quarter when they were playing their own scrubs.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

...using the EIU game to attack our coaches late-game management. Please feel free to show me the error of my ways....

That is your and the other's problem: You have merged the NU FB program, and even more the NU community, with the NU FB staff.
The staff is NOT the same as the NU program or the NU community.

The staff are highly paid professionals (at least highly paid relative to coaches outside the P5, and especially compared to the average man on the street). It is perfectly OK to CRITICIZE them, in matters directly related to their tasks, for which they are being handsomely paid. And that by no means imply lack of loyalty or fandom to NU.

On the contrary, those who put the interests of the coaching staff (even those who are alumni) ahead of those of the NU community are the ones whose loyalty to the school and the community should be questioned.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

I addressed in nauseating detail in another thread point-by-point why Felis' interpretation of the facts was highly flawed...
The most compelling evidence was my own eyes that witnessed Corey Acker and Tom Hruby running through EIU's defensive scrubs like a hot knife through warm butter.
Again, it's valid to argue garbage reps against an awful team have value. (I happen to disagree with that because EIU was that terrible.) However, it's not valid to argue that EIU was anything but a completely and totally overmatched opponent, especially by the late 3rd and 4th quarter when they were playing their own scrubs.

I have also pointed out your counter-arguments are flawed and/or disingenuous.

You say: "the most compelling evidence was my own eyes".

Were you eyes closed when in the 1H EIU forced our FIRST TEAM into one 3-and-out and one 4-and-out?

Were your eyes closed when EIU forced out FIRST TEAM to settle for FG in two separate occasions?

In all our FIRST TEAM O (in the 1H) went head to head against EIU's 1st team 7 times. Of those, our FIRST TEAM O reached the end zone in only 3 times.
Had you not yet arrived?

And did your eyes allow you to see that the NU O scored only ONCE in the 2H (when both teams had a lot of reserves playing).

As I have said numerous times, my argument has NEVER been that in the absolute EIU is a strong team (especially compared to the typical P5 team). As I have acknowledged numerous times, the vast majority of the cases the P5 will beat the FCS team, and it won't even be close (although FCS teams do occasionally beat FBS teams, as UNH did precisely to NU less than a decade ago, or at least make it interesting).

My point was simply that EIU was GOOD ENOUGH (based on actual results, roster analysis and other facts) to provide a good opportunity for our very inexperienced QB's (starter and/or backups) to practice the normal playbook, in the 2H, when the result was no longer in doubt. Certainly they should have been at least as good as our own scout team!!

The coaches thought otherwise, and unfortunately our QB's lost a valuable opportunity. The coaches were wrong. Sorry.

 

[villox]

I have also pointed out your counter-arguments are flawed and/or disingenuous.

You say: "the most compelling evidence was my own eyes".

Were you eyes closed when in the 1H EIU forced our FIRST TEAM into one 3-and-out and one 4-and-out?

Were your eyes closed when EIU forced out FIRST TEAM to settle for FG in two separate occasions?

In all our FIRST TEAM O (in the 1H) went head to head against EIU's 1st team 7 times. Of those, our FIRST TEAM O reached the end zone in only 3 times.
Had you not yet arrived?

And did your eyes allow you to see that the NU O scored only ONCE in the 2H (when both teams had a lot of reserves playing).

As I have said numerous times, my argument has NEVER been that in the absolute EIU is a strong team (especially compared to the typical P5 team). As I have acknowledged numerous times, the vast majority of the cases the P5 will beat the FCS team, and it won't even be close (although FCS teams do occasionally beat FBS teams, as UNH did precisely to NU less than a decade ago, or at least make it interesting).

My point was simply that EIU was GOOD ENOUGH (based on actual results, roster analysis and other facts) to provide a good opportunity for our very inexperienced QB's (starter and/or backups) to practice the normal playbook, in the 2H, when the result was no longer in doubt. Certainly they should have been at least as good as our own scout team!!

The coaches thought otherwise, and unfortunately our QB's lost a valuable opportunity. The coaches were wrong. Sorry.

There she blows...

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

That is your and the other's problem: You have merged the NU FB program, and even more the NU community, with the NU FB staff.
The staff is NOT the same as the NU program or the NU community.

The staff are highly paid professionals (at least highly paid relative to coaches outside the P5, and especially compared to the average man on the street). It is perfectly OK to CRITICIZE them, in matters directly related to their tasks, for which they are being handsomely paid. And that by no means imply lack of loyalty or fandom to NU.

On the contrary, those who put the interests of the coaching staff (even those who are alumni) ahead of those of the NU community are the ones whose loyalty to the school and the community should be questioned.

Here is where I actually agree with you. It is OK to criticize the coaches in relation to their tasks. The problem I have with most of your posts is that you almost always blast the staff and I see little to no balance in your perspective . You don't think Fitz and some of his staff are any good, we get it. EIU may end up over 500. Playing against a far superior team like NU should make more peer level competition less daunting. If they do start winning I am sure this thread will carry on in some form throughout the season. However, in your thirst to attack the staff, you latch on to statistics designed to support a very flimsy premise that EIU is good.

There are plenty of reasons the staff could and has been critiqued the last 2 years and more. I hope this one can be put to bed and you turn your next attack to something else that may actually be an issue instead.

 

[MRCat95]

I have also pointed out your counter-arguments are flawed and/or disingenuous.

You say: "the most compelling evidence was my own eyes".

Were you eyes closed when in the 1H EIU forced our FIRST TEAM into one 3-and-out and one 4-and-out?

Were your eyes closed when EIU forced out FIRST TEAM to settle for FG in two separate occasions?

In all our FIRST TEAM O (in the 1H) went head to head against EIU's 1st team 7 times. Of those, our FIRST TEAM O reached the end zone in only 3 times.
Had you not yet arrived?

And did your eyes allow you to see that the NU O scored only ONCE in the 2H (when both teams had a lot of reserves playing).

As I have said numerous times, my argument has NEVER been that in the absolute EIU is a strong team (especially compared to the typical P5 team). As I have acknowledged numerous times, the vast majority of the cases the P5 will beat the FCS team, and it won't even be close (although FCS teams do occasionally beat FBS teams, as UNH did precisely to NU less than a decade ago, or at least make it interesting).

My point was simply that EIU was GOOD ENOUGH (based on actual results, roster analysis and other facts) to provide a good opportunity for our very inexperienced QB's (starter and/or backups) to practice the normal playbook, in the 2H, when the result was no longer in doubt. Certainly they should have been at least as good as our own scout team!!

The coaches thought otherwise, and unfortunately our QB's lost a valuable opportunity. The coaches were wrong. Sorry.

Still crickets on whether you actually watched the game... I was at the game and rewatched every snap several times on my DVR copy.

Is now the time where we start comparing who's most qualified to render a valid opinion on the quality of an opponent? I think I got you beat.

By the way, your argument that NU moved up in the polls because they beat mighty EIU is so stupid and laughable, your credibility should forever be questioned on all matters large and small.

 

[NJCat83588]

Still crickets on whether you actually watched the game... I was at the game and rewatched every snap several times on my DVR copy.

Is now the time where we start comparing who's most qualified to render a valid opinion on the quality of an opponent? I think I got you beat.

By the way, your argument that NU moved up in the polls because they beat mighty EIU is so stupid and laughable, your credibility should forever be questioned on all matters large and small.

Now you're just toyin' with him, like a cat with a mouse whose tail is trapped in a mousetrap.....

 

[FeliSilvestris]

your argument that NU moved up in the polls because they beat mighty EIU is so stupid and laughable

Prove it.

 

[No Chores]

I have also pointed out your counter-arguments are flawed and/or disingenuous.

You say: "the most compelling evidence was my own eyes".

Were you eyes closed when in the 1H EIU forced our FIRST TEAM into one 3-and-out and one 4-and-out?

Were your eyes closed when EIU forced out FIRST TEAM to settle for FG in two separate occasions?

In all our FIRST TEAM O (in the 1H) went head to head against EIU's 1st team 7 times. Of those, our FIRST TEAM O reached the end zone in only 3 times.
Had you not yet arrived?

And did your eyes allow you to see that the NU O scored only ONCE in the 2H (when both teams had a lot of reserves playing).

As I have said numerous times, my argument has NEVER been that in the absolute EIU is a strong team (especially compared to the typical P5 team). As I have acknowledged numerous times, the vast majority of the cases the P5 will beat the FCS team, and it won't even be close (although FCS teams do occasionally beat FBS teams, as UNH did precisely to NU less than a decade ago, or at least make it interesting).

My point was simply that EIU was GOOD ENOUGH (based on actual results, roster analysis and other facts) to provide a good opportunity for our very inexperienced QB's (starter and/or backups) to practice the normal playbook, in the 2H, when the result was no longer in doubt. Certainly they should have been at least as good as our own scout team!!

The coaches thought otherwise, and unfortunately our QB's lost a valuable opportunity. The coaches were wrong. Sorry.

Felis, I continue to be in your corner on this one. It is pointless to argue further about this, however, since these guys will never agree that you have said some things that make sense.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

 

[villox]

Felis, I continue to be in your corner on this one. It is pointless to argue further about this, however, since these guys will never agree that you have said some things that make sense.

The first truly positive thing Felis says about Northwestern (or game he watches) will be his first.

 

[shakes3858]

Felis, I continue to be in your corner on this one. It is pointless to argue further about this, however, since these guys will never agree that you have said some things that make sense.

What exactly makes sense in anything Felis has said on EIU? He's essentially made 2 points about EIU.

1. EIU has a handful of FBS tranfers so they aren't that bad and we should've ran our offense against them because it's better practice than playing our scout team. There are 3 obvious counter points that leave Feli's point garbage. A) Since when does being a failed FBS player make you a decent player? B) Our scout team is filled with FBS scholarship players so that would be preferred to a team that has a handful of transfers. C) If we assume that the FBS transfers are their best players, all of them were out in the 4th qtr anyway so our team wouldn't have even been getting the equivalent of practice reps against failed FBS players.

2. EIU isn't completely bad because they held NU to a 3 and out a 4 and out and "lowly field goals" in the first half. Is the metric that determines whether you're a semi decent team whether you can hold your opponent to a couple 3 and outs and fields in route to a 41-0 loss while giving up 344 yards on the ground. This was further compounded when he argued that EIU's scrubs held our 33 year old TE turned LB turned DE out of the end zone while playing RB. I guess Illinois was pretty awesome in 2012 when they kept Bo Cizek out of the end zone by forcing a fumble.

For me, I will take the word of a guy that got to an NFL training camp saying EIU was downright bad, over a guy that makes any argument about FBS transfers and reads the box score when he's all but admitted that he didn't actually watch the game.

 

[MRCat95]

Felis, I continue to be in your corner on this one. It is pointless to argue further about this, however, since these guys will never agree that you have said some things that make sense.

The minute he says something that makes any sense, I will say so.