Even if legitimate, those numbers are far from "freakish." That's about what one would expect for a BCS-level DB/safety recruit (if not a touch slow in the 100).
Fitz says up to 11 true freshman may play this year (including 4 WRs)
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Even if legitimate, those numbers are far from "freakish." That's about what one would expect for a BCS-level DB/safety recruit (if not a touch slow in the 100).
Do we know whether this was 100 meters or 100 yards. If it's 100 meters, it's certainly not slow for most safeties, or anybody else for that matter.
Seriously? The 40 time and jump strike me as exceptional for a kid of that size.
The 100 is 100 meters, according to HUDL.
Whats interesting to me is the disparity between the 100 meter number and the 40 yard dash. General rule of thumb we used (as 100 meter numbers are usually done in track season and are more reliable - not sure where these numbers are sourced from) is 10.5 and below and you can see yourself to a 4.4 (exceptions, of course, for long striders and other reasons, non of which look relevent to him based on tape). I would bet that the real 40 number is closer to a 4.6, which is more average for college level safeties.
Wouldn't that still be pretty quick for 100 meters for a safety (equive to about a 10.1 or so 100 yds)? Not for 100 yds but do they even run that these days? And a 4.42 seems pretty good for CB, and very good for a safety? A lot might depend on whether these were hand or electronically timed. 39 inch vertical also seems pretty good.
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Murray's HUDL profile:
6'3" 203lbs
40YD DASH 4.42
SHUTTLE 4.18
VERTICAL 39"
BENCH PRESS 285lbs
SQUAT 345lbs
100M 11.08
400M 50.98
This is Mayo's HUDL profile, FWIW:
5'10" 172 lbs
40YD DASH 4.56
SHUTTLE 4.18
VERTICAL 31.7"
POWER BALL 34' (what the heck is this?)
BENCH PRESS 240 lbs
SQUAT 340 lbs
And 4* Roderick Campbell:
6'0" 180lbs
40YD DASH 4.46
SHUTTLE 4.25
VERTICAL 36"
BENCH PRESS 230lbs
SQUAT 300lbs
100M 11.44
400M 53.21
And 2* Trae Williams:
6'0" 195lbs
40YD DASH 4.50
VERTICAL 31"
BENCH PRESS 285lbs
SQUAT 425lbs
100M 10.97
So Murray is bigger, stronger, quicker and faster than any of his peers, according to this.
Again, these need to be taken with a few grains of salt.
In other words, pretty good. But if these are hand times have to add a couple tenths
A skill position player at the BCS level running anything over 11.0 seconds is a question mark. It can be answered with other athletic evaluations, but is by no means "freakish."
Hooray! Another home town boy (Baltimore) to root for, along with Vault (nearby Gaithersburg) and Long (used to live out there when he was in HS)
As for KOR, I remember we often had guys amongst the league leaders simply because we had so many opportunties to return kicks.
Roberts will produce bigtime. He is a rabbit with speed. I've heard of others who have clocked 4.25 as personal best but they aren't as small and short, thus Roberts can cut on a dime. He will almost never get hit straight on, imo. just too quick. The guy will burn his shirt and he will also see time at WR.
Roberts is the All Turk Greatest Potential of all true freshman. Mark it down. This guy is going to produce by catching and even going to get carries.
His video showed he could run fast and faster. He took some licks too so perhaps he is naturally durable. Some guys are less prone to injury than others. Bone density and all that.
In the 2015 combine, a handful of safeties ran 4.3 forties. A small group of guys had verticals greater than 40 inches.
While I agree that BCS level position players are exceptional athletes, 4.42 is not average. It is very fast as the attached article of the fastest 40 times in the 2014 recruiting class indicates.
Most of the times listed were in the 4.45-4.49 range. Only about 5 guys were faster than a 4.42. Saw somewhere else where about 93 HS athletes ran faster than a 4.5 which would again say that a 4.42 was not average. Again, nothing to say if these were timed electronically or hand timed. If hand timed, have to add a tenth or two. Now the 11.08 is, while pretty quick, not really blistering
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1800859-2014-college-football-recruits-with-best-40-times/page/15
Here is another grouping showing average DBs, WR, etc in the 4.5s
http://texas.247sports.com/Board/21/Contents/Average-HtWt-40-time-in-DI-D2-and-D3-19456944
Anything in the 4.4s is pretty quick and low 4.4s is fast.
I am making no claims as to whether these numbers are legit, only that iff they are, he is fast.
Interestingly, guys slow down in college.
There was one safety and 2 CBs that ran in the 4.3s. THere were a total of 9 guys that ran faster than a 4.42
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-perf..._DASH&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC
In fact, only three safeties were faster than 4.5
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-perf..._DASH&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC
While true, 4.42 is pretty fast. attached is an article of the fastest 40 times in the 2014 recruiting class
Most of the times listed were slower than a 4.42 with only about 5 faster. Saw somewhere else where about 93 HS athletes ran faster than a 4.5 which would again say that a 4.42 was not average. Again, nothing to say if these were timed electronically or hand timed. If hand timed, have to add a tenth or two. Now the 11.08 is, while pretty quick, not really blistering
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1800859-2014-college-football-recruits-with-best-40-times/page/15
In short, if it was a legit 4.42, he is in rarified air
I also severely doubt the 4.42 based on the 11.08 100. Would guess both are hand timed. He's probably a 4.6 on a legitimate watch.
In fact, looks like he ran an 11.24 100 his senior year. Even more dubious about the 4.42 40. He also doesn't seem to be a 4.4 guy in his senior video (which has since gone private on Hudl).
Good prospect. May turn out to be a good or great player. But highly dubious about those testing results.
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Even if the speed results are off because they were hand timed, you have to counterbalance that with the fact that those are the results of a 17 year old kid vs. fully developed players at the combine. The vertical and the strength numbers alone indicate that he is a pretty explosive athlete. I think it is safe to say the DB coaches at NU have a lot of raw talent to work with when it comes to Jacob Murray.
Agreed... Though the explosion numbers are also likely self-reported. Regardless, he had much better tape than I had expected, even if I think he might actually be better served by a move to SAM a la Jimmy Hall (which was also initially the plan for Brian Peters, to whom VanHoose compared Murray).
You are simply wrong. 11.08 at his size in the 100 meters is simply "freakish". I am a huge track and field fan, and this kid is in the exceptional category if the numbers are correct. Don't force me to do the comparisons, or you will look even worse. You know a lot of stuff - this is not one of your better moments..
A 39" vertical is easier to buy than a 4.42 if for no other reason that it's a more reliable measure. I doubt that Murray really runs a legitimate 4.42 based on the NFL combine numbers, but I don't doubt that he is explosive and pretty fast, especially for a high school kid who weighs nearly 200 lbs (HUDL said 203; NU now says 194 IIRC).
As you point out, Murray seems to be a very good athlete, which was my initial point. I just wonder why a guy like him was not more widely recruited.
It looks like NU just updated player weights. It looks like a lot of our 2015 class put on a lot of weight over the past year. Some notables:
Otterman listed at 295, or about 10-15 lbs more than hi senior year weight.
Prather has put on about 30 lbs, up to 270 from his freshman weight
Nate Fox listed at 245!
Jared Thomas at 275
Jordan Thompson at 275
Gaziano at 255
Goens at 250
XWash at 235--same as last year
Otterman listed at 295, or about 10-15 lbs more than hi senior year weight.
Prather has put on about 30 lbs, up to 270 from his freshman weight
Nate Fox listed at 245!
Jared Thomas at 275
Jordan Thompson at 275
Gaziano at 255
Goens at 250
XWash at 235--same as last year
And Dean Lowry is listed at 290. He can play either DT or DE at that weight. Hope he hasn't lost any quickness.
I'm not really here to argue that Jake isn't a good athlete -- he had solid tape and is a versatile guy who reminded me somewhat of a Brian Peters safety or a Herschel Henderson corner, maybe even a Jimmy Hall SAM. Jake's 100 PR is reported in one place as an 11.06 and another as a 10.92. He's a good athlete and I was pleasantly surprised by his tape based on his offer list.
But anything over an 11.0 100 is not a positive for a guy trying to play a skill position at the BCS level, regardless of skill.
Now he's as big as JJ Watt!
Seriously, he's gotten huge.
I was hoping Goens would have put on more weight, but 250 is a pretty good start assuming he redshirts. Of course, it could be all goo on his belly, thighs and neck....
Surprised to see Thompson at 275. Given the injuries at DT, it makes me wonder if he will play this season.
As I said, needed to know whether it was hand or electronically timed. I would guess it is more likely that the 40 is hand timed and the 100 could have been electronic as that probably lines up better than both hand timed. All I was saying is that 4.42 is definitely not average. Question why they go to nearest 0.01 if hand timed with an inaccuracy of 0.2
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A video on YouTube shows the top 100m times for high schoolers as of 2014. #8 checked in at 10.13. #1 at 9.99.
So 11.08 is no great feat for a track athlete, but it's probably pretty decent for a footballer and a big kid like Murray. The 4.42 sounds like an unreliable measure.
As one of the articles state, in many cases guys combine times are slower than they were in HS. The thought is that part of that is all the strength training etc that goes on. Supposedly 93 kids were sub 4.5 out of HS but only about 40 in the combine. And while not all guys go to the combine, if you were correct, you would expect to have more guys get to sub 4.5
Do you really think these guys got slower or that they lied about their 40 times as high schoolers (or were timed by their coaches or at combines... both of which are highly incentivized to "juice" times)?
Again, you are simply wrong about an 11.0 hundred meters. Such a time wins the vast majority of boys high school track meets. You might be correct about the times being inflated due to timing methods, but that is beside the point. An 11.0 hundred meters is freakishly fast for a 6'3" 200 lb. college safety. Check out the Illinois high school state championship results and you'll see what I mean. The Pa.100 meter title went to a highly recruited defending state champion in 10.68. Venric's best hundred meter time was 10.93.
I surfed around a bit more on this topic, and I'd agree that an 11.0 100m seems pretty quick for a bigger kid. Apparently the fastest times by high school footballers tend to be 10.2-10.5 seconds. These are elites (top 10 nationally) and tend to be smaller guys with compact frames. Some interesting exceptions included Dorial Beckham (10.5) and Leonard Fournette (10.68), who each were about 220 lbs at the time. DGB ran a 4.5 at the Combine.
But other comments suggest that 11.0 is about average for a WR. Perhaps it's a bit above average for a safety.
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If you're looking to hand out a BCS scholarship, winning the "vast majority of boys high school track meets" isn't a high enough bar. It was literally my job to screen recruits and I'm flat telling you that a skill position prospect running a 11.0+ 100 was reason for further investigation, not congratulations. Period.
That's fascinating, GCG, and leads me to four questions:
1. Were there multiple metrics that prospects had to reach, or was it only the 100? Feel free to share the tests and thresholds if you like.
2. Does this mean that there is a case where a 10.98 could be passed through whatever screening process you were involved in, but an 11.02 would not?
3. Did this process distinguish between hand timed or electronic time?
4. What's the source? Because you're talking about the screening process, I assume it's a questionnaire of some sort routed through the high school? (Geez, I hope it was a faxed form.)
I would agree with you somewhat if you were talking about 100 yards vs. 100 meters. Otherwise, I simply don't believe you. We don't have many skill position players players on the current roster who can run an 11.0 hundred meters, and a number of those who couldn't landed D1 scholarships in any event. (By skill position players, I assume you mean running backs, receivers,. defensive backs and quarterbacks.)
