+/- from a really bad loss

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

"I didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them"
In Caddyshack, Judge Smails explained to Danny why he sentenced teenage boys to the gas chamber.
Oddly, my rationale for posting the +/- numbers for the Chicago State debacle is similar.
We lost - we weren't toying with an overmatched opponent, padding our stats.

So here are the numbers...

Player	Minutes	NU Pts	CSU Pts	Raw +/-	Player Adjust	Net +/-
Hunger	7	18	13	+5	+1.5	+2.5
Barnhizer	39	69	72	-3	+3.1	+2.5
Langborg	40	69	74	-5	+3.4	+2.4
Buie	38	68	68	+0	+1.2	+1.2
Nicholson	20	24	41	-17	+3.1	-0.3
Martinelli	19	35	36	-1	-1.2	-1.4
Clayton	3	1	8	-7	-1.3	-2.7
Berry	34	61	58	+3	-9.8	-9.2

The Net +/- is 20% of the player's Raw +/- plus his Player Adjust.
I did not count the last 7 seconds of free throw shooting, so the "final" was 74-69.

Nicholson's +/- jumps out. We scored 24 points and allowed 41 in 20 minutes.
It is a bit baffling because we had a 10-7 lead after 5 minutes. That means in the remaining 15 minutes of Matt's time on the court, we got outscored 34-14.
Nicholson scored 9 points during that time, meaning the other 4 guys poured in a total of 5 points in 15 minutes after the opening segment.
Not exactly sure what was going on!

We also see that Luke Hunger played 7 minutes (all in the first half) and NU outscored CSU 18-13.
The team struggled mightily with Clayton in the game. In his 3 minutes, we got outscored 8-1.
When Hunger was out there with Barnhizer, Berry, Buie and Langborg, NU outscored Chicago State 17-7 in under 6 minutes.

Collins' surprising lineup switch to Martinelli at the 5 produced a 22-9 beatdown over 8 minutes, turning a 43-38 deficit into a 60-52 lead with 8:52 to play.
But then Collins put Clayton in for Barnhizer for a minute and we lost that momentum, getting outscored 11-4 with Nicholson back on the court and 11-5 with Martinelli at the 5.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

"I didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them"
In Caddyshack, Judge Smails explained to Danny why he sentenced teenage boys to the gas chamber.
Oddly, my rationale for posting the +/- numbers for the Chicago State debacle is similar.
We lost - we weren't toying with an overmatched opponent, padding our stats.

So here are the numbers...

Player	Minutes	NU Pts	CSU Pts	Raw +/-	Player Adjust	Net +/-
Hunger	7	18	13	+5	+1.5	+2.5
Barnhizer	39	69	72	-3	+3.1	+2.5
Langborg	40	69	74	-5	+3.4	+2.4
Buie	38	68	68	+0	+1.2	+1.2
Nicholson	20	24	41	-17	+3.1	-0.3
Martinelli	19	35	36	-1	-1.2	-1.4
Clayton	3	1	8	-7	-1.3	-2.7
Berry	34	61	58	+3	-9.8	-9.2

The Net +/- is 20% of the player's Raw +/- plus his Player Adjust.
I did not count the last 7 seconds of free throw shooting, so the "final" was 74-69.

Nicholson's +/- jumps out. We scored 24 points and allowed 41 in 20 minutes.
It is a bit baffling because we had a 10-7 lead after 5 minutes. That means in the remaining 15 minutes of Matt's time on the court, we got outscored 34-14.
Nicholson scored 9 points during that time, meaning the other 4 guys poured in a total of 5 points in 15 minutes after the opening segment.
Not exactly sure what was going on!

We also see that Luke Hunger played 7 minutes (all in the first half) and NU outscored CSU 18-13.
The team struggled mightily with Clayton in the game. In his 3 minutes, we got outscored 8-1.
When Hunger was out there with Barnhizer, Berry, Buie and Langborg, NU outscored Chicago State 17-7 in under 6 minutes.

Collins' surprising lineup switch to Martinelli at the 5 produced a 22-9 beatdown over 8 minutes, turning a 43-38 deficit into a 60-52 lead with 8:52 to play.
But then Collins put Clayton in for Barnhizer for a minute and we lost that momentum, getting outscored 11-4 with Nicholson back on the court and 11-5 with Martinelli at the 5.

I am just going g to say it and take my flogging, but Big Matt was unplayable. CSU was going around him like he was a traffic cone. To make matters worse, he was so passive on offense that he didn’t force CSU to make any type of real adjustments with their defense. We all love Big Matt’s story from seldom used player to key cog in the tourney team, but the man needs to step it up this year or Hunger will get more and more of the Playing time.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Some really interesting observations in there, PWB. The Hunger and Clayton situations strike me as a bit due to sample size, but on balance, the analysis suggests that in a 5-out game, go with guys who can provide offense.

 

[ballerog711]

The end of the game was one big cluster. Clayton did go in and the lead reduced by 2. Then he was sub-out and Chi hit the two 3s while Boo had 2 turnovers, Ty had one. Boo committed 2 fouls and no timeouts where called NU waited til the 4 minute. NU took the lead out of the timeout and Chi immediately called a timeout. Man Clayton really messed that up.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Is it me or does it seem this team is heavily dependent on Berry? Not be overly simplistic, when he’s on the Cats win, when he’s off the Cats lose?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Is it me or does it seem this team is heavily dependent on Berry? Not be overly simplistic, when he’s on the Cats win, when he’s off the Cats lose?

We don't have a lot of depth at guard. Until Clayton can come in and be effective, we really don't have any depth.
Martinelli can come in at the 4 to let Berry or Barnhizer or Langborg get a breather. That works.

With Nicholson and Preston playing "center" it seems to me that we have to give Hunger minutes at the 4 in order to get more out of the roster. Unless Mullins improves quickly.

As it stands right now, we have 3 guys playing one position and 5 guys playing the other 4.

So even if Berry is "off" there are days when he has to play.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I am just going g to say it and take my flogging, but Big Matt was unplayable. CSU was going around him like he was a traffic cone. To make matters worse, he was so passive on offense that he didn’t force CSU to make any type of real adjustments with their defense. We all love Big Matt’s story from seldom used player to key cog in the tourney team, but the man needs to step it up this year or Hunger will get more and more of the Playing time.

I have to look at what was going on when we had the ball. I don't think Nicholson was the problem there.

Defensively, having Nicholson out on the perimeter is always a problem if the guy he is guarding can shoot. And it leaves us completely vulnerable in the paint.

 

[loyolacat]

Against Chicago State Nicholson was a conundrum ......an asset on offense and a liability on defense. Collins knew it and kept trying to find the right combo......was like watching my grandkids with a rubrics cube. The more I think about that game, the more I just think it was a bad match for NU and showed some deficiencies in their roster make up.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I have to look at what was going on when we had the ball. I don't think Nicholson was the problem there.

Defensively, having Nicholson out on the perimeter is always a problem if the guy he is guarding can shoot. And it leaves us completely vulnerable in the paint.

I couldn’t stomach a re-watch. Let us know if you have a different perspective. I could be wrong

 

[EagerFan]

Is it me or does it seem this team is heavily dependent on Berry? Not be overly simplistic, when he’s on the Cats win, when he’s off the Cats lose?

Cats are heavily dependent on Boo and three other cats stepping up to score. When it’s only Boo and Langborg, there’s going to be trouble. We expect it to be Berry and Brooks, but anyone can step up on any day.

But when Berry goes 1for7 (I think?), those missed opportunities don’t go to another potential scorer to pick up the slack. But really, the free throw shooting killed us, along with the turn overs more than Berry being off. Cats missed several front end FTs

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Following up on our approach to offense.

When Nicholson came back into the game with 10:48 to go in first half, NU was up 23-16.

In an 8 minute stretch, CSU outscored us 17-10 and score was tied at 33. Nicholson had 7 points, Barnhizer had 2 and Buie had 1. Nicholson 3 of 3 from floor. Rest of team 1 of 9 with 2 turnovers.

Hunger played rest of half and Cats led 38-37 at the break.

Nicholson back in. CSU misses in paint, gets OReb, misses layup. Buie rebounds. Barnhizer misses a 3. Nicholson blocks a 3 point attempt. Buie misses dunk. CSU fastbreak dunk. Nicholson misses dunk on (bad) Buie lob. CSU fastbreak dunk. Clayton in for Buie. Clayton misses jumper. Nicholson fouls, CSU makes 2 free throws. Nicholson out of game, Martinelli in. 17:05 to go, CSU leads 43-38. NU didnt score in 4 possessions.

With Martinelli at the 5, Langborg turned it over twice and NU trailed 45-38. NU suddenly started making shots and getting offensive rebounds and went on an 18-4 run to lead 56-49. Our points per possession were 2,3,1,2.3,3,2,2. Martinelli missed his field goal attempt and did not score during that run. CSU missed all 5 shots, turned it over 3 times, but made all 4 of their free throws. Tide turns for NU after Clayton is briefly subbed in and back out for Barnhizer. We score 1,0,0,0,0 and turn it over 3 times in our next 5 possessions. Martinelli out, Nicholson in at the 4:35 mark, trailing 65-61.

Nicholson dunks, assisted by Berry, but misses the FT. Berry gets a steal, Buie misses a jumper, NU gets the OReb and Berry turns it over. CSU misses a 3. Buie scores in the paint. Barnhizer gets a steal. Buie scores in paint. NU leads 67-65 with 2:20 to play. Timeout CSU. CSU scores in paint. Buie misses in paint. CSU makes a 3. Buie makes 2 free throws. Nicholson out, Martinelli in, trailing 70-69 with 1:04 to go. Buie took all 4 shots after the Nicholson dunk.

My conclusion is that when Nicholson was in the game, whatever we were doing on offense was failing, other than getting the ball to Nicholson within dunking distance and an occasional Buie drive.

When Martinelli was in there in the 2nd half, we had a brilliant stretch of scoring, followed by a bad stretch of turning the ball over.

When Luke Hunger was in there, we scored fairly easily.

 

[GatoLouco]

CSU has now won 3 in a row.

Excitement on campus is building. As demonstrated by yesterday's attendance of 72

Chicago State 78-68 UT Rio Grande Valley (Dec 18, 2023) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Chicago State Cougars vs. UT Rio Grande Valley Vaqueros NCAAM game from December 18, 2023 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

 

[Secho99]

Chicago State playing Wisconsin currently. Took them more than 10 minutes to make a field goal. Cardet, who scored 30 against us, is 1 for his first 9 despite getting several open looks. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

 

[ballerog711]

Wisconsin didn't jack a three the first ten minutes of the game. Kept going inside and beating up Chi St.

Now they are going I side out,

Wisconsin stuck with their strategy.

 

[phatcat]

27 point win for WI

 

[Secho99]

Chicago State playing Wisconsin currently. Took them more than 10 minutes to make a field goal. Cardet, who scored 30 against us, is 1 for his first 9 despite getting several open looks. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Cardet went 13-21 against us. He’s 9-41 in his last 2 games. We got that guy on the wrong night.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Geezus, the game thread and posts after DEPaul and ASU barely register, yet we love to commiserate about the terrible losses. The CSU game will get more posts after the game was completed than the Purdue game.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Geezus, the game thread and posts after DEPaul and ASU barely register, yet we love to commiserate about the terrible losses. The CSU game will get more posts after the game was completed than the Purdue game.

To be fair, the loss to Chicago State was pretty damaging and difficult to explain.

The difference between Wisconsin and NU is that the Badgers go inside and score - Crowl is a big part of their offense... They also have Storr who destroyed CSU. He was just too athletic for CSU to guard.

It points out the differences between the teams and the coaches.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

To be fair, the loss to Chicago State was pretty damaging and difficult to explain.

The difference between Wisconsin and NU is that the Badgers go inside and score - Crowl is a big part of their offense... They also have Storr who destroyed CSU. He was just too athletic for CSU to guard.

It points out the differences between the teams and the coaches.

Wisconsin has had a good start and is a tourney team. However, they aren’t all that freighting. We just are built to bee we able to take advantage of shorter teams .

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Wisconsin has had a good start and is a tourney team. However, they aren’t all that freighting. We just are built to bee we able to take advantage of shorter teams .

I agree that we can beat Wisconsin.

I just didn't (and don't) think the Badgers would ever lose to Chicago State because they do what they do and that includes getting the ball inside to punish small teams.

 

[clarificationcat]

I agree that we can beat Wisconsin.

I just didn't (and don't) think the Badgers would ever lose to Chicago State because they do what they do and that includes getting the ball inside to punish small teams.

We scored 73 points on 49 percent shooting. Offense wasn’t the issue. Careless turnovers and low-energy defense and rebounding were the killers. Our bigs struggled to defend and their limited offensive didn’t make up for the issues on defense. I thought it would have been a good game to go to a zone for a while. We could have kept a big on the floor and forced them to adjust.