+/- from the Malaise against Montana State

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Didn't expect to be doing this box score either, but the Bobcats looked like a D1 team out there, so here goes...

Player	Minutes	NU Pts	MSU Pts	Raw +/-	Player +/-	Net +/-
Barnhizer	28	59	52	+7	+7.94	+9.34
Martinelli	35	63	55	+8	+2.15	+3.75
Nicholson	26	50	43	+7	+0.61	+2.01
Ciavarino	8	12	18	-6	+1.69	+0.49
Mullins	17	25	30	-5	+0.9	-0.10
Hunger	14	19	24	-5	-0.33	-1.33
Berry	33	60	54	+6	-3.06	-1.86
Windham	8	8	13	-5	-1.19	-2.19
Leach	32	64	56	+8	-8.71	-7.11

Welcome back Books Barnhizer, who earned his first "star of the game." If thats rusty, leave the WD-40 in the toolbox.

Most notable things I saw...
The starters (Nicholson/Martinelli/Barnhizer/Leach/Berry) kicked some Bobcat tail. Believe it or not, NU won 36-21 when that group was on the floor for 16+ minutes.
Martinelli and Barnhizer were most effective when playing with that lineup. And therefore all 5 starters had similar Raw +/- numbers.

Ciavarino did some decent things in the first half, but got benched and didn't see the court in the 2nd half. Not sure what triggered that.

Nicholson played from 8:54 until the final 36 seconds, when his free throw shooting "form" demanded that he be removed from the game. Thats a long stretch for Matt - and he was pretty effective.
Ty Berry played the entire second half.

 

[SmellyCat]

Nicholson played from 8:54 until the final 36 seconds, when his free throw shooting "form" demanded that he be removed from the game. That's a long stretch for Matt - and he was pretty effective.

Not sure what got in Nicholson's head, but his stretch over the last several minutes was the best basketball he's played all season. He was a force inside, and my favorite part was when one guy had a shot at a layup and passed it out because he was too scared Nicholson would get him again. That defense Nicholson played down the stretch will pay dividends in other games this year when people get a hold of our tape.

I'm surprised you didn't comment on Leach's terrible numbers above, especially in the context of you saying that the starters played well together. It's just one game against one team, but I found his +/- alarming. Almost like if he's supposed to be the top dog on the floor, the team plays poorly. I'd be curious to see his numbers with and without Barnhizer and/or Martinelli. Well, I'm always curious for you to find new numbers for me (THANKS!). Felt like Leach wasn't bad last night. He got decent shots, and his drives weren't out of control or anything. They just weren't going down, and he's a good enough shooter for me not to be worried. Just this +/- worries me.

 

[clarificationcat]

Didn't expect to be doing this box score either, but the Bobcats looked like a D1 team out there, so here goes...

Player	Minutes	NU Pts	MSU Pts	Raw +/-	Player +/-	Net +/-
Barnhizer	28	59	52	+7	+7.94	+9.34
Martinelli	35	63	55	+8	+2.15	+3.75
Nicholson	26	50	43	+7	+0.61	+2.01
Ciavarino	8	12	18	-6	+1.69	+0.49
Mullins	17	25	30	-5	+0.9	-0.10
Hunger	14	19	24	-5	-0.33	-1.33
Berry	33	60	54	+6	-3.06	-1.86
Windham	8	8	13	-5	-1.19	-2.19
Leach	32	64	56	+8	-8.71	-7.11

Welcome back Books Barnhizer, who earned his first "star of the game." If thats rusty, leave the WD-40 in the toolbox.

Most notable things I saw...
The starters (Nicholson/Martinelli/Barnhizer/Leach/Berry) kicked some Bobcat tail. Believe it or not, NU won 36-21 when that group was on the floor for 16+ minutes.
Martinelli and Barnhizer were most effective when playing with that lineup. And therefore all 5 starters had similar Raw +/- numbers.

Ciavarino did some decent things in the first half, but got benched and didn't see the court in the 2nd half. Not sure what triggered that.

Nicholson played from 8:54 until the final 36 seconds, when his free throw shooting "form" demanded that he be removed from the game. Thats a long stretch for Matt - and he was pretty effective.
Ty Berry played the entire second half.

I have pointed out Matt’s struggles making contested shots in his career. Kudos to him for making a huge basket at the end of the game with his left hand. Really nice basket.

No comment on the free throws. Unfortunately, that’s going to impact his ability to stay on the court down the stretch. I would foul him immediately every time he gets a rebound in the last 5 minutes of a close game until he starts making some.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

Leach made a couple clutch shots but did not hit others. He also had a few unforced ball handling and passing errors.

Overall, his numbers were not as bad as the table indicates.

 

[techtim72]

I don't know how anyone can spend a minimum of four hours a day playing basketball their entire young life and airball a free throw or make less than 50% of attempts. Particularly when the player can almost touch the rim - exaggerating - from the line. With that sort of lack of success, one could take a 100 extra shots after practice and it is unlikely that it would make any difference.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Not sure what got in Nicholson's head, but his stretch over the last several minutes was the best basketball he's played all season. He was a force inside, and my favorite part was when one guy had a shot at a layup and passed it out because he was too scared Nicholson would get him again. That defense Nicholson played down the stretch will pay dividends in other games this year when people get a hold of our tape.

I'm surprised you didn't comment on Leach's terrible numbers above, especially in the context of you saying that the starters played well together. It's just one game against one team, but I found his +/- alarming. Almost like if he's supposed to be the top dog on the floor, the team plays poorly. I'd be curious to see his numbers with and without Barnhizer and/or Martinelli. Well, I'm always curious for you to find new numbers for me (THANKS!). Felt like Leach wasn't bad last night. He got decent shots, and his drives weren't out of control or anything. They just weren't going down, and he's a good enough shooter for me not to be worried. Just this +/- worries me.

I'm not too concerned about Leach's numbers. One interpretation would be that the starters did a really good job as a unit, but Barnhizer and Martinelli were doing the heavy lifting and Leach was barely contributing, if at all. To credit Barnhizer and Martinelli, you have to discredit Leach. Strictly from the box score, Leach added less than a point of productive stats, whereas Barnhizer added 15, Martinelli 10 and Berry and Nicholson added about 5. So Leach was easily the weak link of the starters.

Collins only had Leach out there with Hunger for 4 minutes - and thats really interesting to me because we've been outscored 85-69 this season when those two are playing together. When Leach and Nicholson have been out there together, we're up 167-137.

 

[NJCat]

I don't know how anyone can spend a minimum of four hours a day playing basketball their entire young life and airball a free throw or make less than 50% of attempts. Particularly when the player can almost touch the rim - exaggerating - from the line. With that sort of lack of success, one could take a 100 extra shots after practice and it is unlikely that it would make any difference.

Got to be mental. Just has no confidence at the line.

 

[freewillie07]

Not sure what got in Nicholson's head, but his stretch over the last several minutes was the best basketball he's played all season. He was a force inside, and my favorite part was when one guy had a shot at a layup and passed it out because he was too scared Nicholson would get him again. That defense Nicholson played down the stretch will pay dividends in other games this year when people get a hold of our tape.

I'm surprised you didn't comment on Leach's terrible numbers above, especially in the context of you saying that the starters played well together. It's just one game against one team, but I found his +/- alarming. Almost like if he's supposed to be the top dog on the floor, the team plays poorly. I'd be curious to see his numbers with and without Barnhizer and/or Martinelli. Well, I'm always curious for you to find new numbers for me (THANKS!). Felt like Leach wasn't bad last night. He got decent shots, and his drives weren't out of control or anything. They just weren't going down, and he's a good enough shooter for me not to be worried. Just this +/- worries me.

Did you watch the game? The turning point for Matt was getting poster-ized by an alley-oop, followed by a taunt from the Montana State player. From that point on, he played pissed.

 

[SmellyCat]

Did you watch the game? The turning point for Matt was getting poster-ized by an alley-oop, followed by a taunt from the Montana State player. From that point on, he played pissed.

I watched every minute. Should've made the connection. I would hope he wouldn't have to learn his lesson this way, but whatever works.

 

[Deeringfish]

Is it possible that Barney's return is a hard adjustment for Leach? I don't know enough about BB strategy to have a good opinion but t seems like Leach would be in a whole new role now and will have to find his place.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Is it possible that Barney's return is a hard adjustment for Leach? I don't know enough about BB strategy to have a good opinion but t seems like Leach would be in a whole new role now and will have to find his place.

To me Leach and Berry are somewhat similar players. Windham provides the potential to beat opposing guards off the dribble, but thats really it. Leach has the ball-handling edge over Berry and that could be important.

I suspect Collins will be trying lots of different approaches with a core of Barnhizer, Martinelli and Nicholson - at least for Matt's 25 minutes. When Hunger is out there, nothing has worked well so far.

But we're going to have to do most of our scoring in the paint and crash the offensive glass.

It would not shock me if we start to see more of Martinelli at the 5, with Mullins, Barnhizer, Ciavarino and Leach (or Windham).

 

[GatoLouco]

To me Leach and Berry are somewhat similar players.

I certainly hope not. To me:

1) Ty is a better spot up and coming off screens shooter
2) Ty is a better rebounder and defender

3) Leach is a better ball handler
4) Leach is better in the pick and roll
5) Most important Leach is much better attacking the basket

First impressions, small sample size. And perhaps some wishful thinking. Mostly because we really, really need #5 to be true. If it's not, no chance he is the part of the 3 headed monster with Nick and Brooks. And things become tigheter for everyone on the court.

 

[CappyNU]

I certainly hope not. To me:

1) Ty is a better spot up and coming off screens shooter
2) Ty is a better rebounder and defender

3) Leach is a better ball handler
4) Leach is better in the pick and roll
5) Most important Leach is much better attacking the basket

First impressions, small sample size. And perhaps some wishful thinking. Mostly because we really, really need #5 to be true. If it's not, no chance he is the part of the 3 headed monster with Nick and Brooks. And things become tigheter for everyone on the court.

Berry is a pure catch-and-shoot player. Last year, 94.5% of his made 3s and 61.7% of his 2s were assisted. In 2023 it was 88.0% and 37.8% respectively. This year so far it's 90.0% and 67.7% respectively. Leach is 42.9% and 33.3% this year, 71.7% and 24.0% last year, and 80.0% and 25.0% in 2023.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

To me Leach and Berry are somewhat similar players. Windham provides the potential to beat opposing guards off the dribble, but thats really it. Leach has the ball-handling edge over Berry and that could be important.

I suspect Collins will be trying lots of different approaches with a core of Barnhizer, Martinelli and Nicholson - at least for Matt's 25 minutes. When Hunger is out there, nothing has worked well so far.

But we're going to have to do most of our scoring in the paint and crash the offensive glass.

It would not shock me if we start to see more of Martinelli at the 5, with Mullins, Barnhizer, Ciavarino and Leach (or Windham).

I don’t see these guys as similar players at all. Ty’s a better catch-and-shoot guy, hands down. Leach, on the other hand, can at least create for himself a bit, he's probably the only guy, outside of Windham, who can break down a defender off the dribble this season. Leach is also better at driver towards the basket than Berry, though Berry’s an elite defender and excels coming off screens. Leach is more of a rythem shooter and Berry is catch n shoot. Now, when it comes to ball handling, I agree Leach has the edge there.

With Barnhizer coming back, I think a lot of the minutes he gets will come from the freshmen, and also whatever Smith was getting. Barnhizer and Mart need to be on the floor a lot, and they need to play well for us to be successful.

As for Hunger, he’s kind of played himself out of minutes at the 5, more so than Nicholson has earned his way in. Nicholson’s a good player, and he definitely deserves the minutes. But Hunger’s been disappointing so far. Defensively, he’s got a lot to clean up, and he needs to play within the offense more. He’s shown some offensive potential, but the shots just aren’t falling right now. He can put the ball on the floor and take a slower 5 to the basket and score, but he’s got some work to do. He’s flashed some good things, but he’s gotta clean up his overall game to get be productive and deserve more minutes.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

4) Leach is better in the pick and roll

This one I definitely agree.
Leach has a nice mid-range jumper - which sets him apart from a lot of players.
Jury's still out on rebounding and defense - admittedly Berry has the advantage right now, but Leach is new to the system, so we'll see.

 

[TheC]

Did you watch the game? The turning point for Matt was getting poster-ized by an alley-oop, followed by a taunt from the Montana State player. From that point on, he played pissed.

We keep making the mistake of thinking that when Matt opens the game with an alley-oop dunk, good things will follow. What we need is for the game to open up with Matt getting alley-oop dunked on!!

 

[TheC]

Is it possible that Barney's return is a hard adjustment for Leach? I don't know enough about BB strategy to have a good opinion but t seems like Leach would be in a whole new role now and will have to find his place.

I don't put this all on Leach. I think Barney is going to have to adjust as well. Don't forget... he's used to playing off of Boo. Now he is the man who draws all the attention, but needs to learn how to read the defense and get Leach (and Berry) open shots.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

But Hunger’s been disappointing so far. Defensively, he’s got a lot to clean up, and he needs to play within the offense more. He’s shown some offensive potential, but the shots just aren’t falling right now. He can put the ball on the floor and take a slower 5 to the basket and score, but he’s got some work to do. He’s flashed some good things, but he’s gotta clean up his overall game to get be productive and deserve more minutes.

This I agree with completely. In our last 4 games when Hunger has played, we're out of synch - and it almost feels like nobody knows what he's doing. (Every two-man combo with Hunger has a negative +/-) Not giving up on him, but he needs to improve, as you said.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Hunger on the court reminds me of the cave man in the film “Quest for Fire.”

 

[wocka]

I certainly hope not. To me:

1) Ty is a better spot up and coming off screens shooter
2) Ty is a better rebounder and defender

3) Leach is a better ball handler
4) Leach is better in the pick and roll
5) Most important Leach is much better attacking the basket

First impressions, small sample size. And perhaps some wishful thinking. Mostly because we really, really need #5 to be true. If it's not, no chance he is the part of the 3 headed monster with Nick and Brooks. And things become tigheter for everyone on the court.

This is what I'm nervous about in terms of lineup construction. IMO Leach's most valuable asset so far has been driving to the basket and getting to the free throw line (which NU has historically not been good at, so happy to have someone who can!). The issue becomes floor spacing - Berry obviously can shoot the three but unless you're going to have Barnhizer or Martinelli shoot a lot more threes (which they can do on occasion but is not their primary play style) + having Nicholson in the paint things are going to get very clogged. Leach is only shooting 33% from three on the year against our easiest competition of the year, he needs to get that up a few points or else I think we'll need to do something like have Hunger in the game when Leach/Barnhizer/Martinelli are on the floor to improve spacing

 

[EagerFan]

I'm just realizing that Angelo and Justin are the same height as Brooks. I dunno why they seem noticeably shorter to me when they're playing. It's probably that extra 30 lbs he carries around.

I have concerns about Nick's game going into stiffer competition. When he gets a pass in the paint, he almost always dribbles twice, spins left, picks up his dribble, and looks around. Coaches watching tape will see that and I expect we'll see a lot more of perimeter guards picking (trying to) his pocket unless he puts more variety in play. Similarly with Brooks, who dribbles pretty far out from himself when backing guys down. Hopefully he'll turn that into kick outs for wide open threes from the corner.

 

[hdhntr1]

Got to be mental. Just has no confidence at the line.

It is almost like he is trying a new way of shooting them and is afraid to shoot them too hard

 

[SmellyCat]

It is almost like he is trying a new way of shooting them and is afraid to shoot them too hard

Like Lennie in OF MICE AND MEN.

 

[NUCat320]

This is what I'm nervous about in terms of lineup construction. IMO Leach's most valuable asset so far has been driving to the basket and getting to the free throw line (which NU has historically not been good at, so happy to have someone who can!). The issue becomes floor spacing - Berry obviously can shoot the three but unless you're going to have Barnhizer or Martinelli shoot a lot more threes (which they can do on occasion but is not their primary play style) + having Nicholson in the paint things are going to get very clogged. Leach is only shooting 33% from three on the year against our easiest competition of the year, he needs to get that up a few points or else I think we'll need to do something like have Hunger in the game when Leach/Barnhizer/Martinelli are on the floor to improve spacing

NU found lots of space for Boo to drive the lane, and getting that space is key to finding three opportunities.

Barnhizer made 35% of his threes on 3+ per game. And there were 5+ attempts for Langborg and 6+ from Boo, and NU will simply need to find those deep attempts. (It was 21 3PA/game last year, at 18 through the first five games.)

It’s just a matter prioritizing Leach on possessions — or Leach putting up number one and claiming them for himself.

Leach will never earn the freedom that Boo had — but he’ll get chances.

Have we ever seen Martinelli in the pick and roll, with Boo or with Leach? Seems that he might be a skilled roll/pop/just get some space to make a move/decoy for a Nicholbomb guy.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Have we ever seen Martinelli in the pick and roll, with Boo or with Leach?

It looked to me like that became a focal point of the offense against Montana State.
Nicholson was not coming out to set the ball screens - Martinelli was.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

This is what I'm nervous about in terms of lineup construction. IMO Leach's most valuable asset so far has been driving to the basket and getting to the free throw line (which NU has historically not been good at, so happy to have someone who can!). The issue becomes floor spacing - Berry obviously can shoot the three but unless you're going to have Barnhizer or Martinelli shoot a lot more threes (which they can do on occasion but is not their primary play style) + having Nicholson in the paint things are going to get very clogged. Leach is only shooting 33% from three on the year against our easiest competition of the year, he needs to get that up a few points or else I think we'll need to do something like have Hunger in the game when Leach/Barnhizer/Martinelli are on the floor to improve spacing

To me, you can have Barnhizer or Martinelli going isolation in the paint, with Nicholson just hanging around - and three guys out at the arc.

Lobs to Nicholson anytime his defender leaves him. Kickouts to the perimeter anytime those defenders crash down.

 

[wocka]

NU found lots of space for Boo to drive the lane, and getting that space is key to finding three opportunities.

Barnhizer made 35% of his threes on 3+ per game. And there were 5+ attempts for Langborg and 6+ from Boo, and NU will simply need to find those deep attempts. (It was 21 3PA/game last year, at 18 through the first five games.)

It’s just a matter prioritizing Leach on possessions — or Leach putting up number one and claiming them for himself.

Leach will never earn the freedom that Boo had — but he’ll get chances.

Have we ever seen Martinelli in the pick and roll, with Boo or with Leach? Seems that he might be a skilled roll/pop/just get some space to make a move/decoy for a Nicholbomb guy.

Yeah this proves my point. Last year the spacing was awesome when you had three 40%+ three point shooters (including Boo who could also create off the dribble), Brooks who could be inside or outside, and Matt inside. We did pay for it defensively where I thought we were undersized. If you wanted to do the same thing you'd need Leach and either Barnhizer/Martinelli taking a lot of threes, which I don't think plays to their strengths. I haven't looked to see if these lineups have played together and if so what their stats are, but interested in combos with Berry/Barnhizer/Martinelli with Leach/Hunger and Windham/Nicholson as I think they could create the best spacing

 

[NUCat320]

Yeah this proves my point. Last year the spacing was awesome when you had three 40%+ three point shooters (including Boo who could also create off the dribble), Brooks who could be inside or outside, and Matt inside. We did pay for it defensively where I thought we were undersized. If you wanted to do the same thing you'd need Leach and either Barnhizer/Martinelli taking a lot of threes, which I don't think plays to their strengths. I haven't looked to see if these lineups have played together and if so what their stats are, but interested in combos with Berry/Barnhizer/Martinelli with Leach/Hunger and Windham/Nicholson as I think they could create the best spacing

When doing NBA draft analysis, The Ringer includes 3PA as a metric. When you’re a good shooter, that aggressiveness and willingness to shoot matters. Shots will fall or won’t, but the odds are always better taking them if you’re a good shooter.

Berry’s attempts last year were 5+. Brooks should be coached to get his up there as well. Martinelli will *probably* not maintain his 70% clip, but it sure looks like he’s worked at it and he should get more than 2 attempts a game.

The ingredients for proper spacing are there. It’s a matter of how aggressively they take advantage. It’s definitely something to watch this year. Get chuckin, boys!

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Yeah this proves my point. Last year the spacing was awesome when you had three 40%+ three point shooters (including Boo who could also create off the dribble), Brooks who could be inside or outside, and Matt inside. We did pay for it defensively where I thought we were undersized. If you wanted to do the same thing you'd need Leach and either Barnhizer/Martinelli taking a lot of threes, which I don't think plays to their strengths. I haven't looked to see if these lineups have played together and if so what their stats are, but interested in combos with Berry/Barnhizer/Martinelli with Leach/Hunger and Windham/Nicholson as I think they could create the best spacing

The most surprising thing I saw in the combos (just the 2 man combos) was that our most dynamic duo is...
Ciavarino and Mullins! When they have been on the court together, we have outscored our 4 opponents (not Lehigh) 79-56.
Thats somewhat astonishing, given that all 4 games were competitive and our season comes to 283-269 for the total points scored and allowed (excluding some garbage time). Our least dynamic duo is Hunger/Berry, outscored 74-55 in 37:38.

Here's some 5-man lineups of interest - remember Barnhizer only has 1 game...

Nicholson/Martinelli/Leach/Berry/Windham 31-30 20:20
Nicholson/Martinelli/Mullins/Leach/Berry 22-24 16:17
Nicholson/Martinelli/Mullins/Leach/Ciavarino 13-6 7:14
Nicholson/Martinelli/Mullins/Windham/Ciavarino 7-0 2:25
Hunger/Martinelli/Mullins/Leach/Berry 29-29 17:09
Hunger/Martinelli/Mullins/Ciavarino/Windham 22-18 10:51

Nicholson/Martinelli/Barnhizer/Leach/Berry 36-21 16:13
Nicholson/Martinelli/Not Barnhizer/Leach/Berry 62-63 41:28

Lastly, when Leach and Berry have been paired in the backcourt with Barnhizer, we won 47-33 in 20:54 (90 ppg)
When Leach and Berry have been paired in the backcourt without Barnhizer, we lost 118-107 in 67:41 (63 ppg)