Agreed -- why was Langborg even contesting that last 3? Don't give a chance for 4pt play.
Game Thread: Western Michigan vs. Northwestern
- Thread starter mshelton33
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For those of us that can’t watch (plane wifi doesn’t support video streaming), can I get a quick update on 2nd half?
That’s exactly what I was thinking.
Bone headed play and poor play from team overall headed into Thanksgiving break.
A wins a win though so I’ll take it.
We re not as bad as we played today.
Last two games had double digit leads and second half and had to hang on at the end.
There were killing them going to the basket, so keys not do that anymore, let's start jacking 3's
There were killing them going to the basket, so keys not do that anymore, let's start jacking 3's
Does anyone really think these games are easy? When a team like WMU gives great effort and our performance is lacking (for whatever reasons), this is what you get on any one night. I disagree when people call these teams bad; they may not be able to get lots of wins, but they are not always cake walks. We’ve got just enough good players to get by on nights we really stink, like tonight. In other years, games like these are losses for us. Let’s move on and improve and be happy we won.
It's amazing how we all change when our expectations go up. KU and Duke have bad games too. I'm happy NU pulled it out and got a W. Like they say, better to learn lessons in a win than in a loss.
Right on. Sign of a good team is being able to win ugly.
Was he the fire in the Purdue Fort Wayne, Brown and Prairie View games that looked very similar to this game?
Not a fun game at all, but I honestly am glad this played out like it did. If we are the team we want and expect to be, we needed a wake up call type game to show you can’t just show up and win. No matter who you are playing, you need to be focused and ready every night.
It’s great to learn lessons like this in a win. I’m sure Collins and the coaching staff will coach them hard this week and emphasize boxing out and defensive rotations. These are fixable things.
It was a bad night, but it can prove to be a valuable ugly victory if we learn the right lessons from it.
It’s great to learn lessons like this in a win. I’m sure Collins and the coaching staff will coach them hard this week and emphasize boxing out and defensive rotations. These are fixable things.
It was a bad night, but it can prove to be a valuable ugly victory if we learn the right lessons from it.
Looking at the stats line - didn't see the game - how does Nicholson only get one rebound? Seems like he could stand in the same spot and more balls than one would bounce off his head.
My point is it’s ridiculous to insinuate we don’t have anyone on this team who is the heart and soul and we miss Audige based on one bad game that we won. And I provided examples of similar games from last year when Audige was on the team.
Disappointed in Big Matt so far this year. He looks a step slow and tentative. Complete opposite of how he played to close last season versus UCLA.
Outrebounded 43 to 21, continually giving up second and third shots after a dominant performance on the boards vs. Dayton. Three point shooting has not been good so far this season. Barnhizer and Langborg missed every one they took and all were wide open. Will be interesting to see how the team plays this weekend. Which is the real Cats team?
Let's breathe, they won. It was ugly, but they still gutted it out. NU had plenty of non-con games like this last year
I looked up the preseason review of CMU. Turns out they led the MAC last year in rebounding by a fair amount. Lost a lot of minutes to players leaving but returned a couple of large, capable guards.
On the rebounding, if a team is missing threes the other team packs it in and is more efficient on defensive rebounds. If a team is making a lot of steals - which NU was - that means there is more scoring in transition and less opportunities for offensive rebounds. Nevertheless, NU got smoked on rebounds.
On the rebounding, if a team is missing threes the other team packs it in and is more efficient on defensive rebounds. If a team is making a lot of steals - which NU was - that means there is more scoring in transition and less opportunities for offensive rebounds. Nevertheless, NU got smoked on rebounds.
Matt’s positioning was pretty bad tonight leading to the little guys getting the rebounds he should have had. But that was true for a lot of the guys.
Rebounds aside, it seemed to me like the Cats terrible three point shooting was what really allowed the other guys staying in the game.
We played a lot of 28 seconds of solid D, just need the rebound to close it out a touch more often.
Rebounds aside, it seemed to me like the Cats terrible three point shooting was what really allowed the other guys staying in the game.
We played a lot of 28 seconds of solid D, just need the rebound to close it out a touch more often.
Nicholson had 2 blocks, 2 dunks and an assist in the first 5 minutes of the game. He had a hand in all 7 of our points. He subbed out at 13:50.
After that he only played 12 more minutes, scored 0 points, took 0 shots, had 1 rebound and 1 assist.
For unknown reasons, we just didn't go inside. TheC was questioning it in this thread. I was at the game, questioning it.
We were 17 of 25 inside the arc. We were 6 of 26 outside the arc.
Tough game to watch.
Very frustrating to see Nicholson not knowing how to establish position on the offensive end.
After that he only played 12 more minutes, scored 0 points, took 0 shots, had 1 rebound and 1 assist.
For unknown reasons, we just didn't go inside. TheC was questioning it in this thread. I was at the game, questioning it.
We were 17 of 25 inside the arc. We were 6 of 26 outside the arc.
Tough game to watch.
Very frustrating to see Nicholson not knowing how to establish position on the offensive end.
Come on Gordie! I agree with everything you said, I have expressed my opinion these closer than they should be games, are not as big a deal as people make them out to be. And yesterday was palpable that we could not get fired up, no public, no exciting opponent...
But to say these teams are not bad seems a bit weird. If these are not bad teams, who are the bad teams? No one?
WMU is a bad team. They look like 1/2 as athletic as Binghamton. They were last in the MAC last year, 8-23 with a 4-14 conference record. That's a bad team.
The thing I always say is that at this level of D1, everyone knows how to play. And when that's true, if you don't pay attention, you can be surprised. This is not high school ball where bad teams can't play proper ball.
I don't have the greatest expectations for Nicholson, but in his defense:
a) He was pretty screwed on that third foul that put him in trouble.
b) Preston wasn't much better on defense. Also, poor blocking out.
c) Hunger should have been able to offer something. The WMU middle was a similar size. He just looked lost.
At one point, Collins had Martinelli at the five for two possessions.
It was an all-around rough night at the five ... and beyond. Onward and upward.
a) He was pretty screwed on that third foul that put him in trouble.
b) Preston wasn't much better on defense. Also, poor blocking out.
c) Hunger should have been able to offer something. The WMU middle was a similar size. He just looked lost.
At one point, Collins had Martinelli at the five for two possessions.
It was an all-around rough night at the five ... and beyond. Onward and upward.
While bad is relative, my point is that bad is a very strong word to use, given that anyone can lose to what you call a bad team. What do you call the high school teams you note that are much more “bad” (cannot beat anyone even on a good night)?
Yeah, I know we are a bit splitting hairs. My point, which I know you recognized is that bad is relative, good or average does not exist if there is not bad. Bad is being in the bottom X percentile.
One measure, Torvik's rankings has us, right now at #46. Western Michigan is #293. Out of 362. That's an evolving rank with little data for this season. But, for last season, we were #32, Western Michigan was #333. Out of 363.
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Western Michigan picked up 2 JuCo transfers and a 6th year player from Northern Illinois (Crump).
Their 3 leading scorers from last season either graduated or transferred.
So, yeah. Not good.
3 was supposed to be a #, same damn key!
That third foul looked clean to me from the replay. You can usually tell it was a bad call when they run the replay on the big board, and all I saw was his big mitt on top of the ball.
All three of our bigs looked slow and out of place last night. Preston was ok, but he couldn't/didn't keep up and in position either, and Hunger just looked confused for his five minute on the court. That's the first time I've actually seen him play tho, so there's that.
I kinda liked it when Collins put the small team out there with Nick at the five. It felt like a split between desperation and defense. I guess we'll see the plus minus soon enough, but I thought they did pretty well.
My big gripe is taking 26 threes when they weren't falling for anyone. Even then I'm happy that none of them looked like the hero ball moves we've seen in the past, but were generally open shots happening in the offense.
but Brooks driving into four guys in the lane isn't going to go well in conference if they don't respect our perimeter threats.
I think you have to keep taking wide open 3’s. You don’t know when they will start falling. Look at Audige last year in a few games. And Berry against Dayton. Barnhizer is our most effective post-presence and he’s not dominant. And we are not great at finishing at the rim. Like you said, our offense will flow better if teams have to guard the 3.
That's a bit of a concern of mine also. I wonder if B10 team are going to have better plans to defend him when he posts up. You could see WMU was adapting to defending him in the post as the game wore down.
OTOH, Barnhizer was also wearing down late in the game. He looked worn (or battling something in his foot) with 8 or 10 minutes left in the game. I thought for sure he needed a breather, but he battled.
Yeah, he played 39 minutes and I could see he was feeling it in the last five or so. That final three he took had zero gas in its tank.
I think if the Cats aren't hitting their threes well enough, defenders will sag and pick Brook's pocket while he's bumping in the lane. That's part of the setup, right? get that defender to sag and kick out to a wide open Ty, Ryan, Boo for a three. But if we're shooting 20% on the season, the sag becomes a reasonable risk for a turn over.
I think if the Cats aren't hitting their threes well enough, defenders will sag and pick Brook's pocket while he's bumping in the lane. That's part of the setup, right? get that defender to sag and kick out to a wide open Ty, Ryan, Boo for a three. But if we're shooting 20% on the season, the sag becomes a reasonable risk for a turn over.
NU plays to the level of the competition many times. WM us a D1 team and played hard. Small ball needs some 3 pt shooting to open up the offense. Lack of a PF will hurt in some games. BB is great as a wing and gives a great effort on rebounding. Our center spot gives some dunks and defense but the 4 spot is a workaround. Still the team won and was forced to play a full 40 minute contest. There will be many close games so this one was still a building block. Need a nice win this weekend. I get to see the Field Hockey Final Four before flying up to see the win over Purdue. Good weekend for NU sports
When Brooks does that I haven't yet seen the ball come back out to an open guy on the perimeter. Admittedly he usually scores, except for a few times last night.
Agreed. He goes in there determined to get a shot up. He passes well when he's not trying to score in the paint. When he's isolated, he's money in the post, but when they double and triple team him, he's not seeing our unguarded bigs near the basket.
That's right on target, although I did see him look to dish twice towards the end. I'm hopeful they can coach that into him a bit more - another version of the hero ball three five seconds into the shot clock that Boo and Chase were all about their first couple of years.
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