Have a big guy on the bench, Nance will graduate, best available, many reasons.
I hope Young buys into it, he did not transfer after all. But I don’t know that he does. What it appears is that he has a great attitude regardless.
Great win @Maryland - player comments
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I hope Young buys into it, he did not transfer after all. But I don’t know that he does. What it appears is that he has a great attitude regardless.
Fair points - thanks. I just think it’s got to be a bit more of a win-win, so I presume Young bought into stuff then that is happening now. Otherwise, I would think he’d transfer.
He could really value the degree. Be a kid with the attitude that hard work pays off and he’ll play more. Hope that next year he’s the number 1 or 2 option on offense. Think transferring is “quitting”. I don’t know.
Or Maybe he’s happy as it is, and feels, as you said, it’s a win-win, it’s not far fetched to think that.
Yeah I disagree. He has played up to ~13-14 minutes in the first half pretty much every game this year (I have not tracked this, just guessing based on observation, someone else might know the precise numbers). I think it could or should be 16 minutes in H1. Then he should be planned to play ~18 minutes in H2 if he is not in foul trouble. Again, unless he is saying that he is gassed and needs a break, then of course you adjust.
is this serious? you don't need to apply the theoretical foul rate for the full game, you can just look at how many fouls he has in the current game. if he gets up to 2 in the first half then you adjust the plan. if he has 0 or 1, then you proceed with the normal plan. 16 + 18 = 34. that is my plan. i am not suggesting that we play him all 40, i said 33-35 minutes. i might have written 33-36 minutes in one message but same idea.
I don't think "Nance will graduate" was a reason for recruiting Young. They were in the same recruiting class.
I thought he was addressing the 2nd part of the question "why Young seems to buy into his role", meaning he feels he'd get more time next year. This is speculation on top of speculation, it's just how I read it.
I believe your guess is off when comparing against the box scores and play by plays available on NUsports.com. There have been at least 3 games, all which were competitive instead of blow outs, where Nance had 2 fouls in the first half. One where he picked up his second with 9 minutes left on the clock.
The phobia of "What am I going to do if Nance fouls out" is preventing Collins from playing his best frontcourt together.
Its pretty funny if you step back and think about it.
Had Gregg Popovich done that with Tim Duncan and David Robinson the San Antonio Spurs would never have dominated the NBA like they did.
Its pretty funny if you step back and think about it.
Had Gregg Popovich done that with Tim Duncan and David Robinson the San Antonio Spurs would never have dominated the NBA like they did.
I don't think that's what is keeping Collins from playing them together. And if Ryan Young was one of the greatest players in college basketball history, I think he would be playing 30 plus minutes a game.
Well, if you are going to say that, then shouldn't you offer up the reason you think Collins won't play Young and Nance together?
For what its worth he played them together a lot 2 years ago, maybe 30% of the minutes.
He played them together about 19% of the time last year.
This year in the 4 "Power 5" games, they've played together about 14% of the minutes...
And the question isn't "Is Ryan Young one of the greatest players in the history of college basketball?"
The question is "Is Ryan Young clearly better than our other options?"
The answer to that is a resounding YES.
Was it last year where he was playing well and the hurt his ankle, then was never the same? In any event, I think Robbie is a better athlete than people give him credit for and he and Berry are our best three-point shooters imo.
That's not what I was saying. My point is he hasn't played more than 13-14 minutes even when he's not in foul trouble. I didn't say that he's never gotten into foul trouble.
I went to check the box scores. I only looked at the play by play of the last 4 games. I could not care less about what happened against Eastern Illinois (maybe High Point could be argued to be included, but that was not a "proper" game. It was just one we failed to not make it a close one).
Providence
Nance (34 min/2 fouls, 0 fouls at the 1/2) - Young (16 min/0 fouls)
Bench at 13:05 - 0 fouls - Floor 15:48
Floor at 10:58 - Bench 10:58
- Floor 7:18
2nd 1/2
Foul at 19:26 - Floor 15:39
Bench at 15:39 - Bench 13:18
Floor at 13:18 - Floor 7:38
Bench at 7:38 - Bench 5:50
Floor at 5:50 - Floor 0:11
Foul at 0:25
Georgia
Nance (24 min/3 fouls, 2 fouls at the 1/2) - Young (28 min/2 fouls, 0 fouls at the 1/2)
Bench at 15:56 - Floor 15:56
Floor at 13:37 - Bench 10:00
Foul at 11:53 - Floor 8:32
Foul at 8:32
Bench at 8:32
2nd 1/2
Bench at 14:39 - Floor 14:39
Floor at 13:51 - Foul 12:56
Foul at 7:57 - Bench 9:39
Bench at 7:40 - Floor 7:40
Floor at 4:00 - Foul 0:59
Wake Forest
Nance (29 min/3 fouls, 2 fouls at the 1/2) - Young (16 min/2 fouls, 1 foul at the 1/2)
Bench 13:00 - Floor 13:00
Floor 8:57 - Foul 11:19
Foul 7:42 - Bench 8:57
Bench 6:25 - Floor 6:25
Floor 2:24 - Bench 2:24
Foul 2:03 - Floor 2:03
Bench 2:03
2nd half
Bench 14:26 - Floor 14:26
Floor 8:08 - Foul 11:45
- Bench 8:08
Maryland
Nance (31 min/3 fouls, 0 fouls at the 1/2) - Young (11 min, 3 fouls, )
Bench 14:27 - Floor 15:51
Floor 12:10 - Foul 13:33
Bench 8:27 - Foul 12:10
Floor 7:59 - Bench 12:10
2nd half
Foul 16:27 - Floor 15:16
Bench 15:16 - Bench 11:02
Floor 12:03 - Floor 6:26
Foul 11:02 - Foul 6:10
Bench 6:26 - Bench 3:21
Floor 3:21
Foul 0:50
So here are some of my conclusions from the data above, knowing it is just 4 games:
1) Both Nance and Young had 1 in 4 games where they got 2 fouls early on and limited what could be done
2) Nance had a 2nd game, against WF with 2 fouls in the 1st half, but one was with 2:03 to go
3) Neither player has committed more than 3 fouls in one game
4) The idea that RY does not play more because of fouls is horse manure
5) What you can count on is the sub at the 15 minute mark. Both halves
6) The overlap if the two players is for a few players here and there, except the 1st half of the Providence game where we were about to be blown out
7) The natural minutes, barring foul trouble, for Nance would be at least 32, sitting once for 4 minutes or so in the 1st and once in the second
8) The natural minutes, barring foul trouble, for Young to play would be 10-12. 4 in each half to rest Nance and 2-4 of overlap that I wonder if it was just a "whoops, did not realize I put Nance back in and did not take Young out"
9) Beran and Williams count for any considerations of minutes played by Nance and Young, but probably very little.
Beran rolled his ankle in our 2nd Big Ten game (vs Indiana).
He didn't miss a game after that one and there was no notable change in his performance on the court.
Serious questions...
How abnormal do you think it is for a basketball coach to take a roster of 10 players and rotate them so that everybody averages 15-25 minutes a game?
What does/would that tell you about the coach and the players?
Very abnormal. @CappyNU came up with 86% of the minutes played by 7 players (I think). I am guessing here, but the abnormality would not be playing 10 players, it would be distributing the minutes sort of evenly.
We will see what happens. For now it appears the underlying rule is that Buie and Nance play more. Somewhat likely Audige joins that group. Everyone else shares, even if not evenly, always playing significantly less than Buie/Nance/Audige.
I talked to Coach Collins. He said he doesn’t play Nance more just to make you mad.
” I know we’d win more, but I just really like pissing off that Gato guy.”
Here are our most experienced returning 5 man lineups and last year's TOTALS.
Nance, Beran, Audige, Buie and Berry 12 minutes 24-22
Nance, Beran, Audige, Greer and Berry 9 minutes 11-22
Young, Beran, Audige, Buie and Berry 7 minutes 8-7
All returning lineups used last season 42 minutes 61-80
Basically 95% of the lineups Collins used last year evaporated when Gaines and Kopp transferred.
So we returned 7 of the 9 guys in the rotation and we had no idea how they'd do as 5 man units.
Maybe thats a good thing.
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Except that is an average and that means if he gets a couple games with 2, he would foul out of a number of games to average 4. In addition, there are two times that kids are more likely to get called for fouls. In the beginning of games when players are still getting into the flow of the game and don't necessarily have a feeling for how the game is going to be called and when they are tired leading to them to be a step slow or more likely to reach.
While targeting 30 to 33 is OK, trying to push to 40 is a bad idea.
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Depends on what you mean by protecting the player. If they get two fouls early in first half, they don't want them to get the third, still in first half Coaches at least want to get them off the floor so they don't get called for sloppy fouls due to being tired or not having a chance to really see the flow of the game. They are often put back in (even by Collins) and I have seen a fair number pick up that 3rd foul. After the 3rd foul, the sit for rest of half.
If they get to 4 early in second half, they usually pull them wanting them for the last 5 minutes for crunch time. If later, they still often pull them to give them a bit of rest so that they don't foul out do to being tired and sloppy.
These are adjusted based on the HC's understanding of the player. These would seem to be reasonable approaches
I'm just saying some coaches are conservative about fouls.
Obviously a coach would prefer that nobody fouls out, because that shortens the rotation. But if you pull a guy off the floor right away after a foul, the players will quickly learn that if they want to play (they do) then they had better not commit fouls. That leads to soft defense and frustrated players.
So the middle ground is for guys to be kept "on schedule" with fouls. You are "allowed" one foul every 10 minutes.
Two fouls in the first 10 minutes, you have to sit. But I'd allow the player out of jail at the midway point of the next 10 minute period.
Hows this look
Foul #1 cannot play until 15 minutes left in first half.
Foul #2 cannot play until 5 minutes left in first half.
Foul #3 cannot play until 15 minutes left in game.
Foul #4 cannot play until 5 minutes left in game.
Foul #5 take a seat and hope your replacement gets job done.
Adjust slightly based on score of game.
Except that generally they do not pull the guy after first foul regardless of when it occurs unless it is for some other reason such as scheduled rest, They do after second foul if in first half, especially if it is in first 10 minutes. Again they generally do not pull after 3rd foul if in send half regardless unless they got second and third close together in beginning of second half. Generally if two fouls occur close together, they tend to sit them for a few minutes to calm down.
In addition, bad calls and technicals can throw schedule off quickly and generally might have a guy sitting that would not be just on number of fouls
