I believe that NU has to dramatically upgrade the caliber and physicality of its offensive line in order for NU to take the next step. As Fitz said in his press conference today, in each of our three losses this season we lost the battle on the line of scrimmage. I agree with him and believe he was for the most part referencing the offensive line of scrimmage. Our current OL play is adequate but I think in order for us to be consistently competing for Big Ten championships and national prominence, we need our OL play to equal that of Iowa, Michigan State and Wisconsin. When Harbaugh first arrived at Stanford, the main reason he was able to quickly turn around the program was that he first focused on building a physical and dominant OL. While our academic requirements make it more difficult, the good news is we recruit from the same fertile midwest OL talent pool that our aforementioned Big Ten competition predominantly recruits from and therefore I believe this goal is achievable. The good news is that I think this process is already underway. The 2016 OL commitments are not only very talented, but they are also bigger and more physical than the type of OL recruits we have recruited in the past. The early read on our 2017 class is also very positive. This trend needs to continue in order for us to take that important next step in the evolution of the program.
How to Take The Next Step
- Thread starter corbi296
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^^ Look what Harbaugh and his staff were able to do w/ the same O-linemen at UM who had stunk it up for several years (hmmm - so maybe it is the coaching).
Pretty amazing streak of what Harbaugh has been able to do the O-lines at Stanford, the 49ers and UM.
Also need to...
1. get several play-makers at WR.
2. get a better kicking game
3. improve the D-line (didn't do nearly as well against the better O-lines)
4 . develop Thorson into a better passer (including utilizing his legs to help set up the pass) or else find a more polished passing QB who can still scramble.
Pretty amazing streak of what Harbaugh has been able to do the O-lines at Stanford, the 49ers and UM.
Also need to...
1. get several play-makers at WR.
2. get a better kicking game
3. improve the D-line (didn't do nearly as well against the better O-lines)
4 . develop Thorson into a better passer (including utilizing his legs to help set up the pass) or else find a more polished passing QB who can still scramble.
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Better, but in my opinion not enough to win the three games we lost. Games are won at the line of scrimmage and it's been a long time since we have had an OL that from left to right could manhandle the man in front of him. That's what is needed in order to be a consistent top echelon program. Once you have a pipeline and philosophy in place that enables you to control the line of scrimmage year in and year out, the quality of the skill position players will determine how dominant of a team you will have. However, it all starts with an OL. Without that, all the rest really won't matter.
About what I would have estimated. We lost the LOS today, but even if we had won it, I am not sure CT would have been able to profit.
Harbaugh's turnaround at Michigan shows that it is not all about the recruiting. It's also about an attitude, coaching philosophy and player development. Harbaugh took basically the same guys who struggled under Hoke and turned them into a dominant OL this year.
Thorson is not the problem. He is young and has a lot to learn, but believe it or not I saw improvement in his play today. I thought his pocket presence and decisions on when to scramble were much better today than what I saw in the regular season. If the OL had won the line of scrimmage and our WR group was not a raging dumpster fire, Thorson's play would have been good enough to win today.
If wishbone/option offenses were that great, Navy and GaTech would be playing for the national championship, or Alabama would still be running the bone.
I'm very hopeful that Riley Lees in our 2016 class might be the next Jeremy Ebert. I'm guessing he might play as a freshman next fall.
Teams with a superior OL and poor WR play can be successful but the opposite is not true. Let's address both position groups but the OL is more important in my opinion.
I was really impressed with how NU ran the ball this year, especially when we needed to close out games. Jackson had the fifth-most running yards of any back in program history. That speaks well of the OL. But I can't account for the wide disparity between the 10 wins and 3 losses. In those losses it looked like the previous two years when the OL got us beat 14 times.
I'm hopeful that Thorson will improve; he seems to have the tools and attitude. Freshmen rarely succeed, let alone win 10 games. And I think we have some decent prospects for growth on the OL. At this point I'm most worried about the WRs. We need at least three guys to make the leap just to be average at that position group. Is that Green? Nagel? Vault? A true freshman or other redshirt? We don't have any on-field evidence to trust in this crew. To think, a few years ago people used to say we had one of the best receiver groups in the B1G. I don't know what happened.
I could not agree more. The OL used to be a strong point of NU team; even during the dark ages, we had some good OL. OL coming into the NFL generally perform the best or second-best (to QBs) on the intelligence tests at the combines. We can recruit bright OL to NU.
Corbi , I usually agree with your thoughts but think it's a real stretch to say that you saw improvement in Thorson's play yesterday. Sure his WR were zero help and the OC used the same old stuff. JJ only had a dozen or so carries but was averaging over 5 YPC and NU stopped giving him the ball. Why? Thorson's "improvement" scares me, as I see him making the same mistakes as he did early in the season. Behind him it gets even scarier because the coaches have seemingly given up on Alviti and then it's a walk on, Green and RS Fr. who is probably better suited at WR and then a true freshman from that QB hotbed Indiana. Wonder if any 5th year senior QB's might be available to fill what looks like a gap behind Thorson. It worked for Wisconsin for a few years.
I don't think we should switch to that offense, but Paul Johnson is 61-44 (38-26) in 8 years at Georgia Tech with one conference title, three more division titles, and two trips to the Orange Bowl. It's not the national championship but that's pretty damn good.
The wishbone certainly works for GT and the records prove it. Heck does anyone really think that NU stands a chance of playing for NC in let's say the next 10 years? Seem to remember that Johnson's name was being tossed around a few years ago when NU was searching for a HC. Think it was either just prior to Barnett coming aboard, although it might have been sooner. It would have been an interesting choice.
It's subtle but the improvement was there. I fully anticipate that Thorson will make a quantum leap in the level of his play next year. The big question in my mind is what happens with the WRs and OL.
Plus one Corbi and I'm sorry with Colter at QB we still would have been crushed by Michigan, Iowa and Tenn. Colter was a great athlete but not a good QB. What greatly concerns me about McCall is that Siemian not only gets drafted but makes the Broncos and did very well in the pre-season! What does this say about McCall? TS should have done much better at NU and I blame a lot of that on McCall!
I know I've repeated this a number of times, but Siemian was much better at NU than his stats and those around here would indicate. He was hampered primarily by an extremely underperforming group of wideouts that dropped a TON of catchable balls.
I always like Trevor and clearly his health was also a reason but I still believe McCall was a huge problem there. McCall must go he is just awful!
If we get a much improved offensive line, then I wonder if Fitz would give up the spread and go more of a pro-style offense. He would then need to recruit blocking-style fullbacks and tight ends. I agree with some other posters that OL talent and depth that is all that is keeping Fitz from leaving the spread behind. I can see Fitz embracing a power running offense.
I am just guessing here but it seems to me that this was an issue that after running the true spread we recruited for the spread, smaller, faster guys who did not particularity have to be great pass blockers,,,,,,,then all of a sudden we needed a line that could pass block because we had no great backs for a while and moved to more of a pocket passer last year and this (even thought Thorson has speed does not seem fluid in the read/option) plus we made a choice not to go with Alviti.It also seems that our wide receivers were recruited more as blocking wide receivers than spread receivers. So I guess what I am saying is that our recruiting was not in mesh with our offensive philosophy which left McCall trying to cobble things together.......but in the end too many teams were able to get consistent pressure on the QB with a 4 man line which also left our receivers easily covered....a bad combination. With Justin Jackson arriving as a dominant back we were able to get some good wins as the defense was able to support a precarious offense ....but long term that is a tough equation to make work. Fitz and McCall have always talked about players, schemes then plays but that seems hit or miss. I am wondering what the offensive philosophy will be going forward
No WRs are ever recruited as "blocking WRs." Unfortunately, it's just a string of misses recruiting at that position.
I don't know...I really don't, but I wonder why more of the guys on the roster don't get some reps? When a unit underperforms so many times, isn't it worth trying someone on the depth chart? If Fitz is serious about competition for very position, I think it should begin at WR.
Ii is interesting that Pierre Youngblood-Ary made an appearance and had two catches and that Corey Acker who is listed as a wide receiver got action twice this year at running back. You just have to assume that there was competition at the position and the coaches played the best kids. But sometimes you just wonder if Fitz isnt loyal to a fault?
Why do some of you think that all of a sudden these 4 and 5 star kids r gonna come to NU??? The OL needs them to be good. They r not coming!!,! NU will get a couple each year but that's it for 1 facilities are not up to par with the big schools. And most importantly Fitz does not put guys in the NFL
This year is probably the best NU can be (because of talent gap) for NU to compete in these big bowl games the offense has to be explosive and right now the WR and QB groups are not up to snuff to do that. If thorson or one of the new QBs next year can have a great year and a couple of the WRs develope then mabey
So am I disappointed NU got pounded. YES but to put it in perspective it's probably the best season NU can have
Actually, we had a better season in 1995, so it's not the best season NU can have. We did have a competitive defense this year, but I've observed much better offensive teams at NU, so there is plenty of room for improvement. Wisconsin over the years has been ample proof you can develop an effective o-line without a lot of four- and five-star recruits.
I agree with Corbi in that Thorson did better in the pocket yesterday. He was stepping up, perhaps because he was being encouraged to run, and not always running to the right. Other than that pretty much the same. Everyone keeps bashing the OL but at the end of the day they were probably middle of the pack in the B1G which is better than what they looked like when the year first started. JJ had a great year and he didn't do it by himself. My suggestion on receivers is to start with copying what everyone else is doing which is recruiting players 6'-3" and taller. Every team in the bowls this year, including MAC and FCS, had tall receivers. Most of our receivers are tiny in comparison. Yes, a small receiver can be good but error on the side of size.
I think the new facility being under construction will make a huge difference in recruiting. NU and most of the rest of the B1G not sending players to the pros is a problem. Interesting that of all the position groups, the QB position seems to me to have had more pro prospects over the past dozen years than other groups. NU has had a pretty good run on QB's until recently.
I think the new facility being under construction will make a huge difference in recruiting. NU and most of the rest of the B1G not sending players to the pros is a problem. Interesting that of all the position groups, the QB position seems to me to have had more pro prospects over the past dozen years than other groups. NU has had a pretty good run on QB's until recently.
That's exactly what we have been doing -- CJones, McHugh, CDickerson, etc. are all around 6-3. In doing so, we gave up on finding wideouts with the "suddenness" to run the option routes required to make Mick's offense work.
Along with DBs, WR is the position where NU's academic restrictions make it the most difficult to recruit the truly gamebreaking guys.
