I Hope Collins is Watching Virginia
- Thread starter corbi296
- Start date
It had nothing to do with the meaning of the post, "Heads are going to explode" in particular should have been a clue- I think Evanston Cat Or Virginia Cat would have been the likely casualties
Virginia was one unique play away from losing to Purdue. Probably karma for losing to the 16 seed last year.
Bennett actually recruits talent. Pretty large difference. Other coach can't get enough talent to be competitive in the Patriot League.
At least you recognized the irony of Corbi's original post and my response. Corbi just wanted to criticize me rather than recognize the rather obvious meaning of the post that he was advocating a style of play not too dissimilar to CC's predecessor , which I agree could be a style that could make NU more competitive considering the usual talent deficiencies that NU faces
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It didn’t work very well the first go-around. .318 conference winning percentage. OUCH! Even the awful Chris Collins is better than that!
I don't understand why everyone is jumping on me when Corbi suggested a style very reminiscent of BC's that should be considered by NU
BC could run circles around CC with regards to X's and O's but in the B1G, you still need the Jimmys and Joes that BC never was able to recruit. CC has upgraded the talent at NU substantially , now , he has to incorporate a system to utilize the talent effectively. It may not be Duke's system but some creative variation such as UVAs. CC has to mature and evolve
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It wasn't so obvious to me. I was never a part of the Carmody basketball board debates so if there was a Carmody reference you were trying to get across it went right over my head.
There is a growing disconnect on this board from what NU offers college basketball players and the expectations of fans. It is entirely fair to expect victory but is it fair to expect Collins to build and maintain a winning program when the team has no practice facility and he is restrained by academics? Can you imagine the class Collins could have landed after the NCAA tourney if he had the current stadium and the soon to be opening practice facility with no academic restrictions? So please be realistic in your criticism because this board has been trending in a direction of unrealistic expectations given NU's place in the basketball continuum which ironically only exists given the coaching efforts Collins and Carmody who are the targets of seemingly never ending criticism by some.
I think CC would have scored more than 40 against Wheaton.
You are assuming NU had superior talent. Anyone that followed NU and thought the talent level was anywhere near B1G standards was delusional. The talent deficit may have been BC's fault but NU scoring 40 against anyone should not have surprised anyone. Hell ,UMBC beat UVA last year so any team is capable of laying an egg. A winning % of 31% with NU's talent in all honesty was extraordinary-acceptable no, but relative to talent level-remarkable
Umm...Wheaton was an average DIII team. There’s no comparison between UMBC and that Wheaton team.
The difference is that Bennett teaches defense first and is built on defense.
Defense was an afterthought under Collins’ predecessor.
NU could not play man to man in the past because of talent issues. NU had to resort to gimmick defenses to survive. There is no way NU could have played the pack line D then or now. Pardon was the only player on this years team that could double and recover.
Agree 100%. What was refreshing about the two finalists was that they played the best team defense of any teams I saw in college basketball this year. They played hard, were not dependent on only 1-2 players and ran offenses capable of generating open three point shots but were not completely dependent on shooting three pointers. It was refreshing to see and renewed my interest in college basketball, which had been waning for years.
Your trolling was along the lines of “hahaha UVA plays like the Carmody Cats.” Clearly you are not actually dumb enough to think that’s the case. This is good.
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I must be that dumb since I don't understand your post.
My response to Corbi's original post was that he was advocating many of the principles that BC was forced to use while here. I thought that would lead to a boisterous response fron VaC, Willycat et al. Somehow that was turned into a debate on the specifics of UVA's offense by Corbi
I am not advocating a return to BC but just the realistic evaluation of NU's performance relative to their talent level during BC's tenure. Anyone that thinks BC was not a miracle worker with his teams is not being honest. The talent level at NU should have resulted in 0-16 almost every year. I would guess that NU was picked to finish last by the experts almost every year and in all honesty that would have been a very real appraisal of NU's talent
The point is that UVA is decidedly defense-first. Bennett’s core philosophy is nothing like Carmody’s core philosophy.
Pointing out that a coach wants to control tempo and believes in shooting three-pointers is basically pointing out that a coach’s profession is basketball coach - these are things that most basketball coaches wish to do.
So is you’re crapping on the players just to rep your bizarre infatuation for Carmody!? Regadless, you are wrong. He did have some real talent to work with. Shurna, Coble, Young, Thompson, Hearn just to name a few. Some of those guys played pro ball.
Yes. The Princeton offense could be run with the talent available to him. Name a player during BC'c tenure that could consistently breakdown a defender off the dribble. He did have a few players that could hit 3 point shots though. Give me an idea of what offense would have been better suited to NU's talent
Defensive rebounding was problematic because NU, out of necessity. played so much zone, and of course he did not have very athletic big men. The lack of offensive rebounding was intentional, to try and prevent transition baskets. NU could not compete if teams were running freely on them. UVA employs this defensive strategy but are athletic enough to occasionally get a few O rebounds(How many fast break baskets did Texas Tech have-if you watched closely UVA retreated immediately after a shot-there was one sequence when 2 UVA players were near the offensive rim, Hunter grabbed an O rebound but the other was already turning to get back on D
You may not have liked the Princeton offense but there would have been a lot more 0-16 seasons without it
Name another team that uses that as their base defense. Nash and Cobb(Lumpkin) are the only players that come to mind that could be good man defenders. Give me an idea about what defense you think BC could have run with his personnel. He did not have a big man that could defend the rim if an NU defender was beaten off the dribble( Pardon provided that for NU the past 4 years)
Again, my point was to show the irony of Corbi suggesting a style of play much more similar to BC than many NU fans (WC, VaC etc) would tolerate. You are nitpicking on nuances of style rather than the overall picture . UVA had fewer possessions/game than any other D1 team and that was what BC tried to do because his talent was so inferior to his opponents.
Read Pete Carril's book "The Smart Take From The Strong" and you will get a better understanding of how outmanned teams can compete against better teams.
I don't have an infatuation with BC but I do believe he was a good x and o coach that maximized NU's chance of winning relative to the talent available to him. Every coach should strive for that goal.
You listed 5 players from the BC era but can you name any NU team that had 5 legitimate B1G starters with a few bench players to help out. Maybe there was a team like that but I can't recall one. I probably only saw a lot of NU games in the last 6-7 years of BC's career
I submit to you the 2008-09 team. Coble, Moore, Thompson, Shurna and Mirkovic. Nash, Ryan and Rowley off the bench. Should have been enough, it it weren't for that choke-job in the BTT Minnesota where it looked like Carmody had never faced them before (third time playing them of course)
Also, the 2010-11 team. Even after Carmody ran off Coble, we still had Shurna, Thompson, Crawford, Mirkovic, and Cobb, with Marco3lio and Curletti off the bench. But hey, if it weren't for an OT loss to #1 Ohio St. in the BTT, Carmody might still be coaching here now, so there's that...
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