It may or may not have been trending up. Whatever the trend line, when you're adding the likes of Chier Ajou and Mike Turner, you're just not gonna get there anytime in any of our lifetimes.
I'm annoyed
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It may or may not have been trending up. Whatever the trend line, when you're adding the likes of Chier Ajou and Mike Turner, you're just not gonna get there anytime in any of our lifetimes.
Revisionist history. Frank was NOT an "all-world" recruit, he was a 3* who both Scout and 247 had as the 22nd to 24th best Center in the class. Which is pretty much where Barret Benson is rated, and I haven't seen anyone rave about his "all world" status. Would Kaminsky have been a great addition to the NU class of 2011? Absolutely. Did he turn into an "all world" college player? Absolutely. But to suggest that he was seen as a top flight recruit is simply revisionist history.
I agree that they'd never get offers from today's staff, but you pick the worst example to make your point. You might get there this year with Demps, Olah, Lumpkin and Tap. It's moot now.
Skelly, Falzon, Law, Rapolas, Benson, Pardon are the best collection of forwards and centers in a generation. I said it before, I did not think it was possible at NU.
I also think that Collins has the talent bar set higher for the future.
Why are u back to Medill's straw man? I'm not arguing that he was an All World recruit. I'm pretty much saying that he wasn't. I'm saying whatever he was he was certainly better than most of the bigs we've landed, including the likes of Chier Ajou and Mike Turner. Which is enough of a reason to show up. But please, miss the point of my post again and argue yet a third time why Kaminsky isn't an All World recruit even though nobody on this board (except the guy Medill claims to have talked to who works on the staff) has suggested otherwise.
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No, I used the best examples, and that's the point. You never get there if you have any Mike Turner's or Chier Ajou's. We've always been able to bring in a few decent players. Our problem has been that we only go three or four deep in any given year with B1G level talent. (Even if it includes AA talent as it did with Eschmeyer) the reason I think we are dancing this year is because finally we have a B1G worthy roster going 9-10 deep. You NEVER get there if you are adding Ajou's and Turner's every year.
I'm with ECat big time on the depth issue and quality at the end of the bench. The upgrade is unquestionable. Carmody and company (credit wherever you think it's due) certainly recruited some nice players over the years. Actually, 3 of the top 4 players on our current squad in terms of minutes played were Carmody players. But, under Carmody, one or two injuries (which you can always expect to happen in college basketball) simply killed our chances of being an NCAA Tournament Team. We never had depth. Meanwhile, the 10-man depth that Collins has built in just a couple recruiting classes is so much better equipped to overcome injuries and put a quality lineup on the floor every night.
Completely agree with your point about roster depth as we're already seeing w Law out this year.
3 * was as good as it got under BC. And in an area of constant need. With serious ties to NU. Was he a 5* one and done? No but was he at the top of what NU had a potential to get for the position? Absolutely. Did BC ever recruit a C as high as FK was rated? That said, not sure that FK would have developed into all world under BC. Under CCC (see Olah) but not under BC.
What's not revisionist is that Carmody SUCKED BIG DONKEY BALLS AT RECRUITING! I realize most of the people here understand this but why is this even being debated? This feels like another Flat Earth or Trump discussion on the rant board for crissake.
So if we make the NCAAs this year, does that mean Evanston Cat will credit all of it to Carmody like he credits Walker's 2000 season almost fully to Barnett? I doubt it.
Which head coach signed Olah, Taphorn, Demps, and Lumpkin? Which head coach signed Shurna, Coble, Vukusic, Juice, Cobb, and Crawford?
Carmody's problem is that he did not recruit a deep enough team. He was a reluctant recruiter, but when he brought in players, he scored some good ones.
If Collins stays here for another few years, his recruiting production will blow away Carmody's. The jury is still out on the highly touted Vic Law. Yet you didn't say Collins is a better recruiter than Carmody was. You said Carmody sucked big donkey balls and that's not entirely true.
I like Vic Law and I hope that he becomes an All American at NU, but so far, he hasn't accomplished anything at NU that outshines Carmody's recruit, Drew Crawford.
He has played all of 1 season.....geez..........but I take your point that Drew averaged 10 ppg and 4 rpg as a true freshman. He did have Juice and Shurna on that team however, which is a much better line-up than BMac as a true Freshman and Demps as the 1-2 scoring punch.
As per usual, you change the goalposts and totally mischaracterize what I had posted (I have always stated that recruiting has been better under CC).
So now being in the mix doesn't mean anything.
So why didn't you say that from the beginning instead of after I had refuted your previous assertion?
BC and staff recruited numerous 4*/top 150 recruits, but there was little reason for most of them to come to NU - so they did make an effort unlike your misleading claim.
And not only did they make an effort - BC and crew did land Sina - an ESPN Top 100 recruit; and Abrahamson was rated an 89 by ESPN and was Top 150 on Rivals (KA had offers from 7 P5 programs - as many as Law).
Aside from Law and BMac, the rest of the 2014 class had recruiting profiles similar (or even less) to that of Tap - so let's not make it out as having landed those type of recruits were some kind of coup.
Furthermore, your argument is centered on the basis that recruiting under BC would have remained static and not helped by the continued winning seasons and 4x back-to-back post season appearances.
You have no idea as to whether BC and staff would have been able to land 4* and ESPN TOP 30 recruit such as Reid Travis.
Juice didn't have that floater that BMac has, but that's about it for in the paint.
Coming from the poster who has flip-flopped more than Romney.
Completely healthy (and eligible), the 2012-13 team would have been comparable to this season's and maybe even a little better.
The '12-13 team would have been better at the 2, 3 and 4 spots and the current team better at the 1 and 5 spots.
2 - Cobb > Demps (even Hearn > Demps)
3 - SR Crawford > SO Law
4 - Swop > Lumpkin
1 - BMac > Sobo
5 - SR Olah > FR Olah
Another advantage that the '12-13 team would have had is another starting caliber player (Hearn) coming off the bench and quite possibly, we would have seen a Cobb/Hearn combo in the backcourt at times (which would be on a whole different level defensively than what we have currently w/ BMac and Demps).
The advantage the current team would have is having more size up front w/ JvZ, Skelly, etc.
So, instead of merely throwing around ad hominem attacks, why don't you refute what I had stated w/ specifics?
A lot of that had to do w/ BC only being able to sell early playing time; so when certain positions were entrenched w/ starters, little luck in getting B1G caliber players willing to come off the bench.
No doubt CC is the better recruiter, but at the same time, he inherited the program in much better shape (when it started to finally get traction - where recruits were thinking if they were the final piece in the program finally breaking through to the NCAAs as opposed to whether the program would ever have a winning season, much less back-to-back or 3-4 in a row).
Yes, BC missed on Kaminsky (whom Ryan took a complete flyer on), but BC knew that he had Olah coming in and was looking to recruit another big center.
A bit hilarious that many of the posters lambasting BC for not making Kaminsky a higher priority would have been the ones (at the time) criticizing him for only able to get a lightly recruited, undersized center project.
But as I had stated before, it was mistake on BC's part, as ironically, Kaminsky developed into an ideal Princeton O center; meanwhile, BC at the time was focused on recruiting larger 5s who would be better able to bang in the B1G, as opposed to the typical Princeton O type center.
Alongside this, BC was heavily recruiting a non-Princeton O type 4 in Reid Travis (big, physical PF), whom CC didn't make a priority once Hardy left (as CC was looking more for a stretch-4).
Furthermore, even while BC missed on Kaminsky (whom I think would have gone w/ UW anyway), he was a pretty good evaluator of less heralded talent.
BC went hard after Brust and Gasser, but despite getting little attention from Ryan until the very end (when schollies opened up), they went w/ UW.
Should Bo be blasted for not having recognized the talents of Brust and Gasser beforehand?
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1. Actually Bo Ryan wanted Nanna Egwu and only when Egwu committed to Illinois did Bo Ryan offer Frank Kaminsky. So the argument has been made that only after Kaminsky lost interest in NU due to lack of quality recruiting from the prior regime did his attention to UW become serious;
2. As for your opinion of Cobb over Demps. Cobb was ineligible for the 2012-2013 season as he was suspended which many thought was due to academic issues. Even if he was healthy, I would take Demps' senior season as 15.7 ppg, 4 apt and 3.5 rpg over Cobb;
3. As for your attempt to downgrade CC's first 2014-2015 recruiting class of McIntosh, Law (no. 66-71 on most top 100 rankings), Skelly and Lindsey, that recruiting class was even more impressive because CC got the job in April and he got this class in only 6 months.
But onto more relevant discussions:
1. NU has a big one in their conference opener v. UNL on 12/30. It is almost a must win considering their weak non-conference schedule;
2. UNL picked up a transfer from KU Andrew White who is averaging 15.7 ppg and 6 rpg. Lindsey and Lumpkin need to have good games guarding Shavone Shields and Andrew White. Also, UNL has a FR starting PG from St. Joseph Watson who played with Jordan Ash who needs to be guarded well.
2. As for your opinion of Cobb over Demps. Cobb was ineligible for the 2012-2013 season as he was suspended which many thought was due to academic issues. Even if he was healthy, I would take Demps' senior season as 15.7 ppg, 4 apt and 3.5 rpg over Cobb;
3. As for your attempt to downgrade CC's first 2014-2015 recruiting class of McIntosh, Law (no. 66-71 on most top 100 rankings), Skelly and Lindsey, that recruiting class was even more impressive because CC got the job in April and he got this class in only 6 months.
But onto more relevant discussions:
1. NU has a big one in their conference opener v. UNL on 12/30. It is almost a must win considering their weak non-conference schedule;
2. UNL picked up a transfer from KU Andrew White who is averaging 15.7 ppg and 6 rpg. Lindsey and Lumpkin need to have good games guarding Shavone Shields and Andrew White. Also, UNL has a FR starting PG from St. Joseph Watson who played with Jordan Ash who needs to be guarded well.
He accomplished growing to 6 7" and his freshman year defense and rebounding are as good as we've seen from the forward spot.
I realize that in the twenty first century that scoring average and three point shooting are the entirety of college basketball, but from time to time good d and the occasional tough rebound can matter.
This argument is obviously stupid and boring.
The part about the Kaminsky story I don't get: why did NU host him that weekend? I assume that other head coaches also take summer vacation at some point, right?
Doesn't NU have a shared hoops outlook calendar or something?
For what it's worth, I think that BC's time at NU had come. Too many 'close but no cigar' seasons had stalled the program's momentum and Carmody's momentum.
The part about the Kaminsky story I don't get: why did NU host him that weekend? I assume that other head coaches also take summer vacation at some point, right?
Doesn't NU have a shared hoops outlook calendar or something?
For what it's worth, I think that BC's time at NU had come. Too many 'close but no cigar' seasons had stalled the program's momentum and Carmody's momentum.
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