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I'm ready to move on from CC

Yeah sure it’s a tough job, definitely. But that’s the job. It’s what all of our peer schools are doing in the conference, many of them to great success. Wisconsin and MSU get studs but also consistently develop unheralded guys they find. If we are going to compete in the premier conference then we should try to act like it and not make excuses.

It doesn’t make sense to drop hundreds of millions on facilities and then say “ah Collins’ job is so difficult, let’s cut him a break”. This is still a results business at the end of the day. We can either act like it or we should quit the B10 in basketball.
I would think any NU coach would get better results in the Ivy League.
 
For all the scorn we heap on Carmoday's recruiting (most deserved) Shurna and Crawford are NU's all-time leading scorers. There is not a single Collins player that I would take over Shurna and very few (if any) that I would take over Crawford. Throw in Juice and Coble and you can argue that he had the same (if not better) eye for talent. He just couldn't bring in enough "solid" guys to surround his stars.
We played 6 guys on many of those teams. Those guys were going to be on the court until they dropped from exhaustion.
 
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And I completely forgot about Jitim Young…
Young was an O'Neil recruit (about the only good thing he did here) and Vukusic came because Pat Baldwin (not a Carmody assistant), spotted him while playing overseas and recommended him. And surely, you are not comparing recruiting at MSU and Wisconsin with their history of success (and more friendly academic standards) to recruiting to Northwestern.
 
I would think any NU coach would get better results in the Ivy League.
Why? If they were in the Ivy league they wouldn't get a single player that committed to them in the last 4 recruiting classes. Being in the Big 10 makes recruiting against smaller conferences pretty easy(the majority of the time). Compared to smaller conferences, our current recruiting is lights out. The problem is we are comparing recruiting to other Big 10 teams which makes our current level of recruiting average(which should make us better than the bottom feeder in the Big 10 that Collins has delivered the last several years).
 
And surely, you are not comparing recruiting at MSU and Wisconsin with their history of success (and more friendly academic standards) to recruiting to Northwestern.
MSU and Wisconsin have a history of success and that’s why they can consistently recruit unheralded guys and develop them into top players? Let’s just give up then. Why play B10 basketball? It’s too difficult clearly.
 
MSU and Wisconsin have a history of success and that’s why they can consistently recruit unheralded guys and develop them into top players? Let’s just give up then. Why play B10 basketball? It’s too difficult clearly.
This is too much. MSU has recruited STUDS since the Magic days. I mean absolute studs, hardly development prospects.
 
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MSU and Wisconsin have a history of success and that’s why they can consistently recruit unheralded guys and develop them into top players? Let’s just give up then. Why play B10 basketball? It’s too difficult clearly.
If you were in charge, you could feel free to make that decision. We’re trying to assess the situation based in reality.
 
I posted this on Twitter the other day, before the Illinois and Rutgers games, but here's a chart showing the score margin over the last 4 "eras" of NU basketball - Carmody pre-NIT, Carmody NIT-end, Collins through tourney, and Collins since.

First, in all games:
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and second, in only conference games:
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Especially in conference games, you can see that the early Carmody teams had a sweet spot of losing by 11-15, though during the NIT years it was much more evenly distributed though still with quite a high share of blowouts. Likewise, Collins kept a similar profile through the tourney years in regards to losses by 16+, except he rarely won by 11 or more, while winning a lot more games by 10 or less than Carmody. The last five years, however, have seen the outright blowouts decrease significantly on both sides of the equation, but so have the close wins, while the close losses are at unprecedented levels.
Cappy - this is great data. The recent Collins years before 2022 (19-21 especially) are hurting his overall results, for sure. 2022 itself is a wholly different story - we have never had such a high % of close games nor close losses. These two stats are slightly different than % close games lost, where we are in line with a lot of prior years.
 
1. Moral victories are not victories
2. Progress isn’t guaranteed. Just because you are close to winning today doesn’t mean you will win tomorrow.
3. 9 years into a coach’s tenure, only one metric matters: W/L. First 2-3 years when the data is incomplete, sure let’s look at different stats and try to figure out how he’s doing. But 9 years in the coach is what he is. Either he has shown improvement in W/L or he hasn’t. Using other stats to justify keeping a coach that isn’t winning is just coping.
We will see an improved winning % this year. We’ve already won more games than both of the prior two years and our easier games are ahead.
 
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Gordie will tell you that it’ll all turn around soon once Collins gets his feng shui adjusted. Or hires a shaman to identify the haunted closet in his house.
Keep on lowering that bar you’ve already set low for yourself.
 
There are really NO easy games in the Big Ten. Nebraska has been playing everyone very tough lately (living more up to pre-season evaluations), like NU has, and yet they are 0-11.
 
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Why? If they were in the Ivy league they wouldn't get a single player that committed to them in the last 4 recruiting classes. Being in the Big 10 makes recruiting against smaller conferences pretty easy(the majority of the time). Compared to smaller conferences, our current recruiting is lights out. The problem is we are comparing recruiting to other Big 10 teams which makes our current level of recruiting average(which should make us better than the bottom feeder in the Big 10 that Collins has delivered the last several years).
All that and your chances of going dancing are limited to winning your conference tournament. The idea that if you moved NU to another conference its players would be different might make Willy’s head explode.
 
There are really NO easy games in the Big Ten. Nebraska has been playing everyone very tough lately (living more up to pre-season evaluations), like NU has, and yet they are 0-11.
Wasn't it last year that State Penn was winless in the B1G until they played... us? We need to beat Neb on Saturday, and it won't be easy.
 
Wasn't it last year that State Penn was winless in the B1G until they played... us? We need to beat Neb on Saturday, and it won't be easy.
The last two games, Nebraska has had double digit leads in the first half, as well as being up by 8 and 7 with 6 minutes to go against Rutgers and Michigan respectively before blowing both games. They will see us as a must-win game, so I hope we are ready.
 
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So he “had it” early in his tenure but whatever that was he “lost it”? He went from being a good coach in most posters eyes to a complete imbecile in that time period. Might have something to do with better players at one time.
And where do the players come from? The GM? The draft?
 
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Nice question avoidance.

I’ll answer yours anyway - the NU job is ridiculously tougher than any other job. I’ve said many times before that it would take a miracle to create a consistent winner. Even Fitz has chinks in his armor of late. We should be expecting volatile results, and be ecstatic if we can do better, given our constraint.
People keep saying this and that CCC is a great recruiter. I disagree. Already spoke to recruiting. But I also think a good game and development coach would have this team above 500. I think that coach would have returned to the dance the year after. I think we have had the horses but not developed or coached them well.
 
People keep saying this and that CCC is a great recruiter. I disagree. Already spoke to recruiting. But I also think a good game and development coach would have this team above 500. I think that coach would have returned to the dance the year after. I think we have had the horses but not developed or coached them well.
Your thinking is kind of screwed up and what do you think after today's W?
 
Your thinking is kind of screwed up and what do you think after today's W?
We beat the worse team in the B1G. So, yeah team? Does this victory make you think NU tourney bound? Does today change everything? Does it demonstrate that admissions doesn’t hold the team down!?!? :)
 
I think admissions isn’t the hurdle that some assume
It is definitely a hurdle, but not an insurmountable one. After all we did offer guys like EJ Liddell, Max Christie, PBJ and others. They just decided to play elsewhere. Now Mulcahy is another story...
 
It is definitely a hurdle, but not an insurmountable one. After all we did offer guys like EJ Liddell, Max Christie, PBJ and others. They just decided to play elsewhere. Now Mulcahy is another story...
It’s not the top tier of National recruits that are an admissions challenge. NU isn’t getting them anyway. It’s the rest of the recruiting pool that is shrunk so bad we often have far fewer options.
 
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It’s not the top tier of National recruits that are an admissions challenge. NU isn’t getting them anyway. It’s the rest of the recruiting pool that is shrunk so bad we often have far fewer options.
Link? How do you know this?
 
Watching the Maryland v Ohio State game one of the commentators said, about Mark Turgeon “the situation had become unattainable for him and his family”. That just sounds so wrong.

Also, Bane from the Batman franchise is suiting up for Ohio State
 
That wasn’t the question Bob.

Of course the pool is smaller. I was questioning your use of “shrunk so bad” and “far fewer”. I think many on these boards fail to understand the academic exceptions basketball and football players get at NU.
 
1. Moral victories are not victories
2. Progress isn’t guaranteed. Just because you are close to winning today doesn’t mean you will win tomorrow.
3. 9 years into a coach’s tenure, only one metric matters: W/L. First 2-3 years when the data is incomplete, sure let’s look at different stats and try to figure out how he’s doing. But 9 years in the coach is what he is. Either he has shown improvement in W/L or he hasn’t. Using other stats to justify keeping a coach that isn’t winning is just coping.
This program has exemplified point #2 to a fee for years.
 
This is too much. MSU has recruited STUDS since the Magic days. I mean absolute studs, hardly development prospects.
Just checking the record, MSU only made the tournament twice in the 10 years after Magic turned pro.

They were ranked in the final Top 25 only once in that 10 year span (the 1979-80 season thru the 1988-89 season)
After that, they made the tournament in 5 of 6 seasons, but only made the Sweet 16 once, losing the next game.

It was two years after Izzo became head coach in 1995 that the Spartans regained their dominance.
 
Just checking the record, MSU only made the tournament twice in the 10 years after Magic turned pro.

They were ranked in the final Top 25 only once in that 10 year span (the 1979-80 season thru the 1988-89 season)
After that, they made the tournament in 5 of 6 seasons, but only made the Sweet 16 once, losing the next game.

It was two years after Izzo became head coach in 1995 that the Spartans regained their dominance.
Ok, let’s say they have got studs the last 27 years then. They aren’t a program taking diamonds in the rough and turning them into shiny stars. The initial comparison makes no sense.
 
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Ok, let’s say they have got studs the last 27 years then. They aren’t a program taking diamonds in the rough and turning them into shiny stars. The initial comparison makes no sense.
To me, they've def replaced Indiana as the B1G blue blood in the last 20+ years. Closest thing we have that could compete over the years with Duke/UNC/KY/Kansas
 
To me, they've def replaced Indiana as the B1G blue blood in the last 20+ years. Closest thing we have that could compete over the years with Duke/UNC/KY/Kansas
Heathcote was a pretty mediocre coach who lucked into Magic. Izzo is an all-time great.

It’s crazy how far Indiana hoops has fallen. Nobody who is an undergrad today can remember when they were nationally relevant, but good luck telling their fans that. Total denial.
 
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