Is CCC a good coach?

[GatoLouco]

You still take the most talented players you can get that fit the culture. The culture part being a non-negotiable.

I think this sums it. I believe folks underestimate how much NU's recruiting is about getting the best possible players available and then trying to make it work. If it was not, we would have a tall 3-4 on this team via the portal.

Character non negotiable, for the program you want to build, and NU is not a school you can come to not play school. After that... others go to the supermarket with shelves well stocked. We go to that supermarket with a lot of out of stocks, with produce left after a full day of shoppers, not culled... we look for the best we can get.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I think this sums it. I believe folks underestimate how much NU's recruiting is about getting the best possible players available and then trying to make it work. If it was not, we would have a tall 3-4 on this team via the portal.

Character non negotiable, for the program you want to build, and NU is not a school you can come to not play school. After that... others go to the supermarket with shelves well stocked. We go to that supermarket with a lot of out of stocks, with produce left after a full day of shoppers, not culled... we look for the best we can get.

Sure yes, but also we have some highly attractive qualities for transfers who can make the academic cut. We’re a pretty juicy opportunity for a veteran mid or low major point guard next year. A Langborg style guy who is more a passer and creator than a shooter.

 

[GatoLouco]

Sure yes, but also we have some highly attractive qualities for transfers who can make the academic cut. We’re a pretty juicy opportunity for a veteran mid or low major point guard next year. A Langborg style guy who is more a passer and creator than a shooter.

OK, than the supermarket is a Kroger, a normal place for us. We still don't need to go to Dollar General or Save a Lot like the mid majors?

Fully committed to the retail analogy here. Our results might suggest we are shopping at Aldi. Most people believe it's crap, but it's just smart shopping.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

OK, than the supermarket is a Kroger, a normal place for us. We still don't need to go to Dollar General or Save a Lot like the mid majors?

Fully committed to the retail analogy here. Our results might suggest we are shopping at Aldi. Most people believe it's crap, but it's just smart shopping.

We don’t need a supermarket. We are a bespoke operation. We need literally one guy. MAYBE two if you want a Preston replacement inside. The Preston alternative can be a big box store empty shelves item. For the point guard, we are executive headhunting.

 

[DaCat]

Rewind to April 2, 2013…. Introducing new coach Chris Collins.

 

[hdhntr1]

So were Buie and Audige part of the Duke model or the Wisconsin model? I'm not sure I understand the distinction. He recruited Brumbaugh 3 years ago. He seems like a Duke player. Top 100 player and somebody you might want to punch. I am trying to understand who on the first tournament team would not be recruited now? Law?

Law would definitely have been recruited. So would McIntosh. Both were gamers and would always do what made the team better. Maybe Lindsey might not. But for the most part not the first tourney but what came after.

 

[hdhntr1]

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To be fair, during much of the 90s we only had 16 conference games

 

[hdhntr1]

You could make an argument for Hoiberg, but really it should be Collins by unanimous decree.

Probably will be Hoiberg or Ben Johnson. While Collins contributions are notable, I have to think the other two are 1, 2 for this year

 

[SmellyCat]

Probably will be Hoiberg or Ben Johnson. While Collins contributions are notable, I have to think the other two are 1, 2 for this year

I can see Hoiberg, but I can also see Painter (and Collins) more than Johnson. Sometimes the award just goes to the coach of the best team, full stop.

 

[hdhntr1]

And Mullins should have been in the rotation all year. That’s not COY material.

Not really. Indications are that he was not doing what he needed to to get on the floor. I mean for all his talent, Smith is still ahead of him. He is coming around but with all the tight early games, others deserved the minutes more

 

[hdhntr1]

I can see Hoiberg, but I can also see Painter (and Collins) more than Johnson. Sometimes the award just goes to the coach of the best team, full stop.

To whom much is given, much is expected and he has potentially the two time Player of the year in the entire country plus record has not really changed from last year. Cannot see Painter getting it. Johnson is turning around that program. From 2-17 last year to 8 wins and an outside shot at the dance this year

 

[hdhntr1]

Martinelli is a serious DAWG. A true junkyard DAWG.

God love him. Opposing teams will learn to hate playing him.

GOUNUII

Let's just say that will learn to hate playing NU

 

[GatoLouco]

I can see Hoiberg, but I can also see Painter (and Collins) more than Johnson. Sometimes the award just goes to the coach of the best team, full stop.

You're right, but it should go to the coach with the highest positive deviation to expected outcome at the beginning of the season.

It's coach of the year, and not best coach in the league. I too expect Hoiberg and Johnson to go 1-2, but still games to be played

The above only applies if hell freezes over and it's not Matt Painter, or whoever coaches Purdue.

 

[hdhntr1]

This is exactly right in my opinion. He has really grown as a coach. To the point where he gives you that feeling that "Everything will be ok because Coach knows what he's doing". But it took him awhile to get there.

He got knocked on his ass after the first tourney and to his credit he changed himself. It took too long in my opinion but he did it whether that be hiring the right people, coming up with an identity and creating a great culture.

Some will say he's always been a good/great coach but I would say he's gone from a mediocre coach to a good/great coach. All the credit in the world to him for making the necessary changes so far into his career which is not easy for any leader to do.

It took how long it took. And it was not like he was a bad coach during that time. The team just did not have the maturity to win the close ones.

 

[hdhntr1]

So did he go from a great coach to a mediocre coach and now back to a great coach? Obviously having good players is a big part of it but he struggled to get a lot out of those teams between the first dance and last season.

And I know people will say he has an All-American in Buie right now, but it's obvious that his coaching style has changed and he is a much better leader now.

He was a solid and developing coach that had some early success and has since become a better coach as he has learned the changes he needed to make

 

[hdhntr1]

So were Buie and Audige part of the Duke model or the Wisconsin model? I'm not sure I understand the distinction. He recruited Brumbaugh 3 years ago. He seems like a Duke player. Top 100 player and somebody you might want to punch. I am trying to understand who on the first tournament team would not be recruited now? Law?

They were part of the Northwestern model

 

[hdhntr1]

You're right, but it should go to the coach with the highest positive deviation to expected outcome at the beginning of the season.

It's coach of the year, and not best coach in the league. I too expect Hoiberg and Johnson to go 1-2, but still games to be played

The above only applies if hell freezes over and it's not Matt Painter, or whoever coaches Purdue.

Highest deviation is MN From 2-17 BIG wins last year to 8 BIG wins so far this year.

 

[hdhntr1]

B

Sure yes, but also we have some highly attractive qualities for transfers who can make the academic cut. We’re a pretty juicy opportunity for a veteran mid or low major point guard next year. A Langborg style guy who is more a passer and creator than a shooter.

But again, not that many can make that cut. And if they are that good, everyone else wants them also

 

[clarificationcat]

Law would definitely have been recruited. So would McIntosh. Both were gamers and would always do what made the team better. Maybe Lindsey might not. But for the most part not the first tourney but what came after.

I don’t know how you can clearly determine who is going to be team first player in college based on watching them a few times in high school. Lindsey got hurt in high school and missed a season, which is why he was a little under recruited. If there are character issues in high school, obvious attitude issues or their coach isn’t supportive (which I doubt happens very often), then you walk away. But absent red flags, you take a 6’5” shooter with pretty good athleticism almost every time at NU. The length of Law and Lindsey was one reason why the defense was so good. And Lindsey was a big part of the tournament team.

You probably pass on Brown. Biggest gunner in high school I had ever seen. Simmons was recruited based on potential. Very skinny without a refined game. Otherwise, I would still sign almost all of the prior recruits. Whether they were Duke or Wisconsin style players.

 

[hdhntr1]

I don’t know how you can clearly determine who is going to be team first player in college based on watching them a few times in high school. Lindsey got hurt in high school and missed a season, which is why he was a little under recruited. If there are character issues in high school, obvious attitude issues or their coach isn’t supportive (which I doubt happens very often), then you walk away. But absent red flags, you take a 6’5” shooter with pretty good athleticism almost every time at NU. The length of Law and Lindsey was one reason why the defense was so good. And Lindsey was a big part of the tournament team.

You probably pass on Brown. Biggest gunner in high school I had ever seen. Simmons was recruited based on potential. Very skinny without a refined game. Otherwise, I would still sign almost all of the prior recruits. Whether they were Duke or Wisconsin style players.

I was saying that of the people that played. he less fit the current profile of gamer than the rest. I can a agree that Brown and Simmons might not fit the profile either

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

 

[hdhntr1]

Sure yes, but also we have some highly attractive qualities for transfers who can make the academic cut. We’re a pretty juicy opportunity for a veteran mid or low major point guard next year. A Langborg style guy who is more a passer and creator than a shooter.

I think Langborg IS a shooter

 

[hdhntr1]

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Says it all

 

[GOUNUII]

I think Langborg IS a shooter

More than a shooter for sure. He’s a quality scorer.

GOUNUII