let us see how long it lasts. Could just be any given Saturday
It’s still Fitz’s program, and it’s atrocious
- Thread starter NUCat320
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I’m not going to disagree with you but there have been many before that talked about our facilities as being a reason we could never be competitive.
It was bullshit just like all the other excuses made.
We may not have the nuts but we have a great hand. And at least one that is playable simply from the fact that we are in the B1G and have money. Anyone who doesn’t see that is blind.
The new building is great, it has and will bring in quality talent for sure, but it won't be the top reason a kid will want to go to NU and play football. Facilities tend to be secondary to the actual state of the program and what the program can do for the kid. The facility definitely will help the football program. I am just saying it is a secondary priority for a young teenage boy and will be just one of many factors he will take into consideration on where he attends school.
This is a good and thoughtful response.
I can’t think whether any of the current roster (Coco, maybe?) contributed on the last good NU team. Did Fitz really even have credibility as a winner in the locker room anymore? We’ll never know of course.
What I saw Sunday looked a lot like what I saw 10 months ago. Yuck.
NFL first rounder Pete Skonski would disagree. 11th pick.
As would Rashan Slater.
And Evan Hull who I know is not an Offensive Lineman but who ran through the holes the OL created for him.
Npw you might say, okay that is just three guys and you would be right. But a team only has five offensive linemen!
If your player is pick 11, sorry, you don't stink.
Sanders will always get players because he is Sanders. He got them to come to Jackson State for crying out loud.
So let me ask you why you would expect a stellar recruiting class anytime soon? IMO, we are THE worst P5 program now. Being bad can be overcome, but from a recruits perspective this is what I see:
A former player bringing a hazing allegation to the forefront resulting in an external report where the President deemed a 2 week suspension of the HC was warranted. The President didn’t even bother to read the whole report.
A school Newspaper that publishes the whistleblower allegations under the cover of flimsy collaboration and little research to a counter point.
A BOT member who praises that same school newspaper for their journalism chops.
A President that calls the Whistleblower parents and magically dies a 180 on his decision and fires the face of the University within 48 hours of his suspension decision.
A BOT lead by a guy who has been hostile to Athletics backed the knee jerk decision of the President.
An AD that communicates the decision to the team via Zoom and takes no question.
Multiple lawsuits from former players on how awful it was to be a NU football player.
Over 200 members of the faculty sign a petition to halt/delay building the planned stadium and putting athletics back into its proper place.
A local and National media that has destroyed NU for being negligent in its oversight of the program.
An AD that publicly admonished the team for being tone deaf when some showed up with a Cats Against the World 51 TShirt. They had only been around 3 weeks beforehand, but the AD is so out of touch he has no idea.
The President decides to commission another investigation lead by a very high profile attorney. What do you think that will say?
A student body that at best is very ambivalent to the athletic program.
A stadium over run with opposition fans.
An Admission staff that takes very limited chances with lower than typical entrance qualifications for athletes despite a near 100% graduation rate.
I could go on. My view is you have little to no support from the BOT, President, AD, Faculty, Students and media. I won’t even go into on the field performance and obvious Coaching deficiencies. Other than that we have a great situation.
IMO, nothing will change, in fact it will get much worse until we start by riding ourselves of Schill and Gragg. The two most incompetent people I have ever seen in positions like these! Excuses can also be realities.
It goes deeper than just those two as your own post details. NU will struggle to field a high level football program because most people associated with NU don’t really care about that.
Ppd, we may be the worst FBS team. We were close last year and may be worse this year.
My rant is more directly at the state of the program versus solely wins and losses. We aren’t even favored at home against a G5 average team. It amazes me that some people think with all of this baggage, we are even close to a destination for top recruits.
How do you know braun is better than JON? R how do you know Bryant is better than Hunter? Guess Hull was unnoteworthy. Why are the WRs better? Seems like we lost starters from last year. Brought in a heralded kid from a heralded program - how could that possibly go wrong… Brought in another high ranking transfer from…where was he from?
It’s simply blind faith. Based on the early years, you choose to blindly trust in Fitz and then shape your answers to fit that narrative. An outsider, looking at football things over the past five years would never agree with you.
Historically, that’s when folks like you would switch gears and argue about the intangibles: face off the program, never have to worry about scandals, etc. Until he alienated the media and the fans and supposedly allowed a scandal to occur ‘without his knowledgez’ that was so far reaching that it spawned decades and female team managers knew while he maintained a zero tolerance policy.
Don’t you remember certain folks around here cutting out facilities as a major factor to obstructing recruiting and what a game changer the Taj Fitz would be?
If your QB room is full of a bunch of injured guys with dirty jerseys and the look of fear, your OL sucks. Pete was pretty damn good. OL as a unit (think that is the bigger picture in FB) has sucked going back past Cushing.
Couple thoughts: how much of what you cited existed during seasons of success?
Do you suppose if PF had treated the national and local media better then they may have treated him better?
Were you around during the Dark Ages? How much of what you cited existed or in similar fashion (remember Taylor and Pres what’s his name)?
Wasn’t NUFB involved in a major point shaving scandal? Death of a player scandal? All in an environment of hostile admissions with adversaries on the Board and the faculty?
And yet, didn’t multiple coaches drag us out of those large pits and bring our program into prominence beyond participation trophies?
I thought it would help, but not be a real game changer. I read those articles about kid's priorities regarding being recruited from the pre Thorson- early Thorson years. The Taj Fitz is an example of why NU has fumbled the football with regards to pumping up the football program. Ryan should have given his grand donation more thought, if his thoughts were on improving the team. Kids want to get to the NFL, and to do that they have to go to a program that helps get them there. That means an innovative offense that will let the balls fly and give the kids a chance to shine in the spotlight. We don't have that and haven't since Walker. Ryan should have made Taj Fitz in conjunction with having Fitz dump the ball control stuff and reintroduce Walker type ball. It is interesting how Ryan has been silent through all of this. I wonder if he regrets his generous gift now.
Objectively, the OLs have been bad.
Slater and Skoronski were starters from the moment they stepped on campus. They arrived at NU well on their way to the NFL. Those were recruiting and identification wins far more than they were player development wins.
Gonna be honest, this hazing scandal won't really matter much within 12-18 months. We'll be the only people talking about it; only our fanbase will care.
There's been far worse that's happened in CFB including here than this (and none of it ever really has stuck except SMU's death penalty which effectively killed the program for decades), and this will just be a blip to the public at large by next year. Other than a "how did Fitz get fired?" kind of query when people look at our program the next 5 years, it won't come up. By 2030, people won't even wonder about Fitz being fired here. It'll be the ancient past.
Really the only permanent disadvantage we have is fanbase size where we can never compete with the giant football factories at the 50k+ public enrollment flagships that have huge fanbases.
Beyond that, it all comes down to coach quality.
Look at Colorado, Prime is obviously a unicorn of sorts, but Colorado was arguably the 2nd worst P5 situation since 2007.
Only 1 year since 2007 has Colorado won more than 3 conference games. Only bowl eligible 1 time other than Covid year. Barnett got their last bowl win. A total disaster of a program by any measure for a very long period of time. Rivaling Kansas in terms of futility, a program that won *at most 1 conference game* each year from 2009 to 2021.
We'll see if Prime manages a complete turnaround there, but obviously the first game went well and the fanbase is as excited as its probably been in decades (since Barnett was there).
Kansas is the same Leipold came in and took them to a bowl game in year 2 after being the worst P5 program since 2009.
All it takes is the right coach (and a willingness to participate in NIL by big donors at Colorado, Kansas doesn't look like much of an NIL factor, just good coaching there). We really just have to hit big time on the next coach and hope he puts together a good staff.
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It can turnaround but it needs everyone pulling the rope in the same direction. Prime is a Unicorn and also would never consider a school like NU. The AD and Administration totally kiss his ass. Leopold is a better example to me. However, I doubt he deals with a openly ambivalent or even hostile BOT, Administration, Admissions, Faculty and even students. Having a top ten academic school has created an arrogance that goes back to the jingle the car keys days. A lot of people see it as a recruiting advantage, but more often than not I see it as a curse. That ambivalence is why it is a curse. NU (not Pat Ryan) has to actually try to win not hope to win . I am not convinced the status quo cares.
Here's how I know...
| QB | Year | Team | Passes | Pct | Yds/Att | TDs | Int | Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bryant | 2022 | Cincy | 213/348 | 61.2 | 7.9 | 21 | 7 | 143 |
| 2021 | E Mich | 279/408 | 68.4 | 7.7 | 14 | 7 | 140.5 | |
| Hunter | 2021 | NU | 45/74 | 60.8 | 5.7 | 4 | 4 | 116 |
| 2019 | NU | 50/108 | 46.3 | 4.0 | 1 | 4 | 70.5 | |
| Hilinski | 2022 | NU | 144/258 | 55.8 | 6.4 | 6 | 7 | 111.6 |
| 2021 | NU | 95/176 | 54.0 | 5.6 | 3 | 4 | 101.7 | |
| 2019 | SC | 236/406 | 58.1 | 5.8 | 11 | 5 | 113.4 | |
| Ramsey | 2020 | NU | 172/282 | 61.0 | 6.1 | 12 | 8 | 121.0 |
| 2019 | IU | 204/300 | 68.0 | 8.2 | 13 | 5 | 147.7 | |
| 2018 | IU | 295/447 | 66.0 | 6.4 | 19 | 13 | 128.2 |
Hilinski threw 6 passes for South Carolina in 2020.
Hunter Johnson did not play in 2020 or 2018.
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Yeah am I am saying go use our B1G millions to go find someone like Sanders. Yeah, he’s one of a kind but he’s not the only person who could sell ice to eskimos. We had one before in Gary Barnett. Let’s go get another.
I’m saying it’s possible. It’s possible because we were in worse shape back when Peay was fired. And we still got a guy who came here and could recruit and coach and win. We can do it again.
We aren’t worse. Our D is better. The O not so much but it couldn’t do much worse than it did last year already. I thought Bryant flashed an arm and I think Porter will bust out along with our new transfer WRs. Even on O I think we will be better.
We know Braun is better than JON because of a single game, one in which the defense at least had a clear structure and played hard. Can’t say the same for JON.
The rest… yet to be determined.
Yes. I'm one of them. It was a game changer. We won the West in 2018 and 2020 practicing in the new facility. It eliminated a serious deficiency in the program. Even though we've had some successful years in substandard athletic facilities, to argue that new facilities on campus have no effect is absurd.
How has that impact worked out the last four out of five seasons?
And the recruiting improvements since it was built? Have we seen an uptick in quality compared to the pre lakefront years?
But let’s assume it’s a big factor, then there is one more piece of evidence to support the notion that the program could be just fine without PF.
It comes down to either a coaching or recruiting failure, and likely both. It's definitely not the facilities.
Not an either or situation. We will never know if the new DC would have been allowed to focus on his intended role whether we would be 1-0 as of today.
I would love to have your optimism ECat. As I outlined, I think there are multiple reasons a highly rated recruit would not consider coming to NU right now. This isn’t the 90’s. I know there is no way in hell I would go to NU with the current leadership and hostile environment. I never was as bright as Glades or some of the people that went to NU because at 18 they realized the value of the diploma. It just isn’t common. Show me a P5 recruit that doesn’t think they have a shot at a pro career when they arrive. The recruits aren’t going to Colorado if Braun, Lewis, Harline or Chryst are the HC. They are going because it is Dion. There literally is no other guy like him. Overseas must be the land of milk and honey.
E,
I get where you are coming from, but don’t think this holds up in 2023.
Gary Barnett came to Evanston shortly after the NCAA reduction in scholarships. This significantly leveled the playing field across Division 1 (something GB himself acknowledged) and as a result we saw a brief respite from the “Big 2, Little 8” status quo. Then came the offensive innovation of the late 90s/early 2000s which NU was also a beneficiary of. These factors made college football a more wide open and IMHO, enjoyable product to watch (assuming you weren’t a fan of a historical blue-blood like Michigan).
By the late 2010s, “the spread” and nearly all of its related concepts/offshoots had become homogenized. Meanwhile, the CFP had started chipping away at the allure/uniqueness of the bowl system. All of this coinciding with advent of NIL/transfer portal (Note: I’m THRILLED that student athletes are finally being compensated, but don’t enjoy the MLB style free-for-all implementation).
The current environment of college football could not be further from the landscape that Barnett was working in. The pendulum has swung significantly back toward the blue-bloods as conference commissioners continue to push the sport in the direction of the NFL, but without the parody the salary cap brings (even if Josh Hermsmeyer will jump through every intellectual hoop to tell you otherwise).
NU football is poorly positioned to be competitive, let alone contend for conference titles in the burgeoning pangaea still known as college football. The university’s new administration (Grag/Schill) will only make it more difficult, if not impossible, to do so.
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There are two ways to turn it around. The way more realistic one is to get the next Spurrier/Carroll/Leach, build up both a great staff and alot of excitement, get a lot of wins and fans along the way. Short of that, the only thing that I can think of that would build the program up back to relevancy is for NU to go public sometime in the future. Why do I even bring that up? The reality of CFB is that it is completely money driven now. There are going to be winners and losers with these conference realignments. The Ohio States of the world are not going to be happy having to evenly share B1G revenue with programs that don't pull their weight. The NU fan base is rather small since it is a private institution. The subject of student apathy towards athletics/ football has been thrown around a lot lately. How the hell can you expect NU to grow a program when the student body doesn't even care? From what you alums have been saying during this whole Fitz fiasco is that nobody from the university really cares? What percentage of the NU student body is from Illinois? 50% or less?The University of Michigan's student body is mostly made up of Michiganders, thus there already is a natural allegiance, and as one who lived in Michigan for over 40 years and has two U of M alums for siblings, they are rather rabid fans. To be relevant in the new CFB world, the most important thing is having a strong fan base to rake in the ratings and the $$$$$$. This also ties in with my posts about what brings these teenagers into the programs they commit to. Without more positive exposure, you will be stuck with 3 star recruits, which just means they are just good enough to make it on a P5 roster. I know this will probably never be considered, but the fan base needs to be increased substantially in the future for the program to become relevant again, or I can see it go the way of the Univ of Chicago at some point. NU needs not only a stronger connection to the greater Chicago area, but one to the whole state of Illinois as well. The elitist image needs to be shed.
Damn. That is one hell of a post. Well put.
However: we do need someone that will come in here like Barnett, get us all believing in Higher Hopes, and get things back on the right track.
Willie Fritz has a great reputation, record at Tulane, and wouldn’t “fit culturally” coming from the South. But Barnett didn’t fit either at first.
"Bright? not me. It came down to Texas Tech and Northwestern, and I turned what should have been an easy decision into a difficult one. I eventually chose NU because it was closer to home.
Feel like I'm walking into a debate over the most important part of a car.
Say steering wheel and then try to drive with no tires.
Coaching, administration, facilities, gameday environment, oh right and players. Luck, timing, and probably 50 other things.
We cut the ribbon on Ryan Fieldhouse and then Fitz fielded a 3-9 team. I can only imagine Jim Phillips at the time watching his hair fall out in clumps. At least Gragg was bald by the time Fitz did even worse when we announced a new stadium. Recruiting fodder squandered in the worst way possible.
Most have given up hope largely due to Gragg and Schill...but they'll have a chance to show us something with the next coaching hire, and pushing a new stadium through...they'll show us all we need to know with the next head coach. If it's a middling MAC coach who barely won his division, it will tell us that's what they think of Northwestern football.
Get the right coach who can innovate, give him some freedom to recruit and compete in the modern space of college football, use our Big Ten money to buy coordinators who won't stay long because they're rising stars, don't wear "old school" as a badge of honor because CFB evolves too quickly to let people like that stay relevant (sorry, but it's true)...
We'll forever debate the demise of Pat Fitzgerald and all the missteps, but I will say as objectively as I can be...I'm not sure he would have fared better against Rutgers last week and it was probably time for a change.
Say steering wheel and then try to drive with no tires.
Coaching, administration, facilities, gameday environment, oh right and players. Luck, timing, and probably 50 other things.
We cut the ribbon on Ryan Fieldhouse and then Fitz fielded a 3-9 team. I can only imagine Jim Phillips at the time watching his hair fall out in clumps. At least Gragg was bald by the time Fitz did even worse when we announced a new stadium. Recruiting fodder squandered in the worst way possible.
Most have given up hope largely due to Gragg and Schill...but they'll have a chance to show us something with the next coaching hire, and pushing a new stadium through...they'll show us all we need to know with the next head coach. If it's a middling MAC coach who barely won his division, it will tell us that's what they think of Northwestern football.
Get the right coach who can innovate, give him some freedom to recruit and compete in the modern space of college football, use our Big Ten money to buy coordinators who won't stay long because they're rising stars, don't wear "old school" as a badge of honor because CFB evolves too quickly to let people like that stay relevant (sorry, but it's true)...
We'll forever debate the demise of Pat Fitzgerald and all the missteps, but I will say as objectively as I can be...I'm not sure he would have fared better against Rutgers last week and it was probably time for a change.
Gragg and Schill basically don't care. Their actions and decisions show me this evidence. This is no Fitz should have stayed post, but these two NU leaders have shown me they simply don't care. I understand mistakes, strategies that don't work but at least put the effort in. For all the good and bad JP and Morty did, they actually cared about NU. These two, not so sure.
It’s truly impossible to determine who is going to be a good head coach.
But I believe the most important thing is what’s most important in all of life’s success — a willingness to constantly evolve, an acceptance that change is constant, the ability to challenge your assumptions, the ability to be uncomfortable.
Saban in 2010 was grinding out championships. Now he’s trying to outscore teams, while also stopping them. Michigan, Georgia, Ohio State have followed suit.
Fitz’s best coaching seasons came when he finally challenged his own assumptions about punting on fourth down — good NU teams were among the most aggressive on fourth down in the country.
But, realistically, that was the extent of his evolution. (And I do think, while Jake is not a great football coach, his offense strives to be a bit more interesting this season.)
Ultimately, the team that Braun put out last week was uncannily familiar to the teams we watched in 21-22. A transfer quarterback without a chance to show if he’s got anything. Lines that can’t protect.
Playmakers who don’t make plays.
NU’s last successful quarterback recruit was Thorson. His published Rivals commitment date is…3/18/23. My daughter was born six months later, and we’re prepping her tenth birthday party.
