John Oliver is pretty insightful...

[Dugan15]

We have much to be thrilled with in our support of NU athletics. But, this hits home in a lot of ways.

Unlike my dear undergraduate alma mater, my graduate school alma mater has made the tournament yet again. Unfortunately, they are referenced in this video.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/16/john-oliver-march-madness_n_6878508.html

 

[Gladeskat]

That's excellent!

 

[DocCatsFan]

It is a great piece. Glad that NU really does not do the practices he describes.

 

[ara-era]

Yeah, think how awful it would be if NU were a member of the NCAA, or insisted on calling its sports employees 'student athletes", or built palatial practice facilities, or...

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Ask a D3 athlete how rough a D1 athlete has it.

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by VirginiaWildcat:
Ask a D3 athlete how rough a D1 athlete has it.

A D3 athlete doesn't have to deal with the inherent time demands (travel, hotel stays, Spring ball, mandatory workouts) and pressure put on D1 athletes. The time demands are easily less than half of those for D1 athletes.

 

[spartcat]

Try Jeff the diseased lung, at the end.

John Oliver on Big Tobacco

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Originally posted by Gladeskat:

Originally posted by VirginiaWildcat:
Ask a D3 athlete how rough a D1 athlete has it.

A D3 athlete doesn't have to deal with the inherent time demands (travel, hotel stays, Spring ball, mandatory workouts) and pressure put on D1 athletes. The time demands are easily less than half of those for D1 athletes.

That's extremely dependent on the individual programs. I know many athletes in both realms and the demands of lots of programs at D3 are still EXTREMELY high. It's not like it was in the 70s. Also, if a kid is pulling a full ride, I would hope he feels a little pressure. He should...just like any student with a large academic package.

 

[Fitz51]

D3 athletics don't rake in billions, so they aren't in the discussion.

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by VirginiaWildcat:

Originally posted by Gladeskat:

Originally posted by VirginiaWildcat:
Ask a D3 athlete how rough a D1 athlete has it.

A D3 athlete doesn't have to deal with the inherent time demands (travel, hotel stays, Spring ball, mandatory workouts) and pressure put on D1 athletes. The time demands are easily less than half of those for D1 athletes.

That's extremely dependent on the individual programs. I know many athletes in both realms and the demands of lots of programs at D3 are still EXTREMELY high. It's not like it was in the 70s. Also, if a kid is pulling a full ride, I would hope he feels a little pressure. He should...just like any student with a large academic package.

Arrrgh! This new computer has a very touchy keypad that deletes my posts before I can post them! D1 vs D3...take two!


D1 football was more demanding in the 70's because of greater numbers of prefall and spring practices than today. Lifting and conditioning sessions were as structured back then as they are today. You must be thinking about the '60's, but I can't speak to that era. The only difference I see today is that players need to be in better cardio shape coming into prefall today because of conditioning tests.

D3 football does not have the time demands in terms of mandatory hotel, travel, training table (at a distant cafeteria), and film session time that D1 ball has. The D3 season is 2-3 games shorter than D1 schedules today as well, unless your D3 team makes the playoffs. D3 programs have expanded their mandatory practices in the Spring to 16 sessions, but none of these involve full contact. Everything else is voluntary and you do it on your own time. Now if you like your sport, then you will put in the time to lift and/or play basketball, but nobody is forcing you to get up at horrible hours on their schedule.

In summary, as I see it, I would say that the gap has closed somewhat between D1 and D3 time demands for football because (1) reduced practice time for D1 athletes these days, and (2) possible expansion of D3 programs' mandatory practice time in the Spring. The scheduled mandatory time demands for D3 football are still considerably less (perhaps 60%) than those for D1 football. The difference in pressure and stress is very real, though a scholarship more than makes up for this pressure and greater time demands. Those taking difficult majors might think otherwise. The real warriors are those guys who walk on to a D1 program and receive no compensation.

I would gladly play D3 football all over again. It was relaxed and fun and the time demands in terms of structured, mandatory sessions were not that great. I'd also play D1 football on scholarship as well.






This post was edited on 3/17 4:40 PM by Gladeskat

 

[Dugan15]

Virginia / Glades: Mine is not to argue about the relative time demands of being a Division 3 Student-Athlete versus being a Division 1 Athlete-Student. For me, the point is that a Division 3 student-athlete is not supporting a huge economic complex based on his unpaid labor. Further, my speculation would be that the Division 3 student-athlete is more involved in the rest of the student body, taking similar classes, living in similar dorms, etc. as compared to their Division 1 brethren. I presume many D3 head football coaches and basketball coaches make 7-digits...as long as two digits are to the right of the decimal point. There is no media, no "Rivals". etc. If a Division 3 player chooses not to play next year. The world does not end. He just may stay in school, keep taking classes and get a degree.

Another interesting perspective from Howard Bryant:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12494242/syracuse-coach-jim-boeheim-latest-string-flawed-college-coaches

 

[evanston09]

Went to a d3 school and a d1 school. Half of the time is probably fair for d3 athletes. Also, I knew probably 30-40 athletes well, not a single one had a problem with the "exploitation" people like to talk about. Some thought they should be paid, but just because they wanted more money.

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by Dugan15:
Virginia / Glades: Mine is not to argue about the relative time demands of being a Division 3 Student-Athlete versus being a Division 1 Athlete-Student. For me, the point is that a Division 3 student-athlete is not supporting a huge economic complex based on his unpaid labor. Further, my speculation would be that the Division 3 student-athlete is more involved in the rest of the student body, taking similar classes, living in similar dorms, etc. as compared to their Division 1 brethren. I presume many D3 head football coaches and basketball coaches make 7-digits...as long as two digits are to the right of the decimal point. There is no media, no "Rivals". etc. If a Division 3 player chooses not to play next year. The world does not end. He just may stay in school, keep taking classes and get a degree.

Another interesting perspective from Howard Bryant:

I often forget that a college education is MUCH more expensive today than a college education 35 years ago. I could easily pay for my 2 years at a private D3 school with jobs and student loans.

Believe me, a D1 player does feel that program-economic pressure. It's hard not to considering how much of a circus D1 athletics is (rich donors and alums, a-hole message board posters, recruiting, the crowds, the hoopla, the media coverage, etc). Maybe to some extent it's self-generated, but the pressures would become manifest (and fears confirmed) from time to time, often when things were going poorly, and that wasn't pleasant. You're right...you don't get that pressure in D3.

NU is no different from D3 schools in terms of taking similar classes and living in the same dorms. They didn't treat athletes differently at all in that regard. The structured time demands do separate athletes from the rest of the student body more so than what one would experience at a D3 school. That's most apparent in season. The difference must be huge for basketball players who have to travel a lot.

The media thing (Rivals, Twitter, etc.) must be much greater at a D1 school than a D3 school as well, but I wouldn't know from experience.



This post was edited on 3/17 11:43 PM by Gladeskat

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by evanston09:
Went to a d3 school and a d1 school. Half of the time is probably fair for d3 athletes. Also, I knew probably 30-40 athletes well, not a single one had a problem with the "exploitation" people like to talk about. Some thought they should be paid, but just because they wanted more money.

How many were pre-med or, say, music performance majors? Nobody can major in music performance and be on an athletic scholarship. At least that was true when I was at NU.

Again, in this day and age of really expensive college costs and higher academic standards, that scholarship to NU must feel like a wonderful deal for most student-athletes. Much more so than when I was in school (and I had no complaints at the time, even though I did burn a lot of midnight oil as a science major).

This post was edited on 3/18 12:02 AM by Gladeskat

 

[LeftyLarry]

John Oliver is a jackass.

Where does he think the money is going, if not to pay for girls sports and help keep the tuition at Schools like Wisconsin reasonable.

The Coaches salaries are market driven, just like the players in the NBA.

Would those Coaches, Coach for $ 500, 000 per year instead of $ 5 million if they had to, of course, same way NBA players who are making $ 20,000,000 per would play for 2,000,000 if they were forced, thankfully, that's not how America works, YET.

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by LeftyLarry:
John Oliver is a jackass.

Where does he think the money is going, if not to pay for girls sports and help keep the tuition at Schools like Wisconsin reasonable.

The Coaches salaries are market driven, just like the players in the NBA.

Would those Coaches, Coach for $ 500, 000 per year instead of $ 5 million if they had to, of course, same way NBA players who are making $ 20,000,000 per would play for 2,000,000 if they were forced, thankfully, that's not how America works, YET.

And the marketplace always sets proper salaries. Football coaches making 100X the salary of school teachers is what's best for America.

 

[thewildcat2011]

Money is going straight into the pockets of administrators at the NCAA, Conference, and School level.

Tuition prices have grown faster than inflation for a long time, don't see how athletics is helping there. Non-revenue sports existed well before 1984, and the coaches like Dean Smith and John Wooden seemed to have done ok coaching for less than 9mil a year.

Come stronger next time.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[thewildcat2011]

You can talk market all you want, but NBA players are being paid based on the market for THEIR services and labor. College coaches and administrators are being based on the market for people who earn nothing from their services and labor.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Fitz51]

Originally posted by LeftyLarry:
John Oliver is a jackass.

Where does he think the money is going, if not to pay for girls sports and help keep the tuition at Schools like Wisconsin reasonable.

The Coaches salaries are market driven, just like the players in the NBA.

Would those Coaches, Coach for $ 500, 000 per year instead of $ 5 million if they had to, of course, same way NBA players who are making $ 20,000,000 per would play for 2,000,000 if they were forced, thankfully, that's not how America works, YET.

Methinks someone has a fundamental misunderstanding of the message here, and it isn't John Oliver.

 

[7levery7]

Your "yet" phrase with all its tremulous paranoia is a nice rhetorical flourish.

 

[NUCat320]

Originally posted by LeftyLarry:
John Oliver is a jackass.

Where does he think the money is going, if not to pay for girls sports and help keep the tuition at Schools like Wisconsin reasonable.

The Coaches salaries are market driven, just like the players in the NBA.

Would those Coaches, Coach for $ 500, 000 per year instead of $ 5 million if they had to, of course, same way NBA players who are making $ 20,000,000 per would play for 2,000,000 if they were forced, thankfully, that's not how America works, YET.

LeftyLarry: "Leading the Internet in screen-name dissonance since (at least) 2014."

 

[guest42]

Originally posted by LeftyLarry:
John Oliver is a jackass.

Where does he think the money is going, if not to pay for girls sports and help keep the tuition at Schools like Wisconsin reasonable.

The Coaches salaries are market driven, just like the players in the NBA.

Would those Coaches, Coach for $ 500, 000 per year instead of $ 5 million if they had to, of course, same way NBA players who are making $ 20,000,000 per would play for 2,000,000 if they were forced, thankfully, that's not how America works, YET.

Hey Lefty, how about let's let the players' salaries be market driven as well? Then what would happen?

I call BS on anyone who uses free market arguments to support the current state of college athletics. The honest free-market typesI know argue that players should get paid. Your statement is first-class intellectual dishonesty in action.

 

[PurpleHaze525]

Guest42 nailed it. Coaches salaries may be market based but it's not a free market. A labor market that explicitly prohibits companies from using wages to compete for the best talent is anything but open and free, and that's exactly what we have in college athletics.

If it were an open market players would get paid and and a lot of that money would probably come from coach and administrator salaries.

Somehow I doubt you're as gung-ho about the government interfering in the labor market as you are about the NCAA. I'm not even trying to make an argument for or against paying players but at least be consistent.





This post was edited on 3/22 3:19 PM by PurpleHaze525

 

[Katatonic]

Originally posted by thewildcat2011:
Money is going straight into the pockets of administrators at the NCAA, Conference, and School level.

Tuition prices have grown faster than inflation for a long time, don't see how athletics is helping there. Non-revenue sports existed well before 1984, and the coaches like Dean Smith and John Wooden seemed to have done ok coaching for less than 9mil a year.

Come stronger next time.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

This.

As much as the compensation for school Presidents/Chancellors have risen, the paychecks for the NCAA top execs, the big 5 conference bigwigs, coaches for the revenue sports and ADs has risen that much more.

Who would have thought that there would be coaches making just as much (if not more) than for the NFL and NBA and that there would be ADs making 7 figure salaries?

As we know, the drastic hikes in tuition has more to do than the actual rise in the cost of attendance and this translates to ever rising costs for athletic depts. which have to cover the inflated tuition costs for all their scholarship athletes.

But these athletic depts. are doing it on the backs of their FB and BB players.

So basically, it's communism for all the student athletes (make that totalitarian communism) - where the workers get compensated w/ peanuts and the apparatchik are living the high life.

That stupid, condescending remark by Soybean Wind (aka Dabo Swinney) is all too typical.

People pay $$ to watch the players play, not to watch him coach.

He should be grateful that he is living in a time where TV contracts for collegiate sports have exploded in value which, in turn, enables him to be grossly overcompensated for what he does.

And sure, that ingrate would be doing something else - how many other jobs pays $3 million+ a yr?

If SW was coaching HS FB, he'd be lucky to make 2% of what he is earning now.

Typical that those who happen to be the most entitled complain about the entitlement of others (and the players aren't even as close to being entitled as that ingrate is fortunate enough to be).

Reminds be of a hotel owner in Arkansas who complained about the 25 cent rise in the minimum wage as people wanting to get something for nothing.

And Emmert is a total DB who will say anything to justify the current system which, btw, is in his total self-interest.

All this blah, blah talk about being not-for-profit and student-athletes - well, seems awfully weird to me that a not-for-profit system coaching students is able to pay its coaches millions (even to the point where co-ordinators are hitting the million mark).

And if all the students athletes should be treated equal, then so should the coaches.

Why is the field hockey team coach getting paid peanuts compared to the FB coach?







This post was edited on 3/22 7:38 PM by Katatonic

 

[hdhntr1]

I was actually able to pay for NU with Coop and summer jobs as well as savings built up working in HS. But the cost is now 20 times what it was then