Jones to the transfer portal

[Medill90]

Why would Hopkins give NU serious consideration? He is going to Louisville.

Louisville's academic acceptance rate is close to 75%. Northwestern's is 8%.

If you can get into a school on the academic level of an NU and go for free, why would you choose a school on the academic level of a Louisville.

If you want the weather, go to Vanderbilt.

He's top 50 bball, he's not top 5. Look at Talen Horton Tucker who jumped from ISU to the NBA and played the G League. A year at ISU and a handful of years in the G League.
Really, what's the point. This is on the parents.

 

[Medill90]

Repeating myself here....but maybe the Jones issue isn't all about bball.

I have plenty of family in the area Jones is from and a couple have tried to go to school up here. They are lovely, southern people who can find no connection at all to the north. They are ok for a weekend but a week is too much.

I also think Jones not being able to enjoy a handful of weeks on campus where he wasn't training and practicing....enjoying the beach....all that...contributed to the decision.

I wish him well. He's talented and capable.

 

[NUCat320]

Repeating myself here....but maybe the Jones issue isn't all about bball.

I have plenty of family in the area Jones is from and a couple have tried to go to school up here. They are lovely, southern people who can find no connection at all to the north. They are ok for a weekend but a week is too much.

I also think Jones not being able to enjoy a handful of weeks on campus where he wasn't training and practicing....enjoying the beach....all that...contributed to the decision.

I wish him well. He's talented and capable.

There’s been April snow in Chicago, right? 75 and sunny for six weeks in ATL. Windows open listening to the birds at 630...

 

[Medill90]

There’s been April snow in Chicago, right? 75 and sunny for six weeks in ATL. Windows open listening to the birds at 630...

Yeah, and I though he lived mostly north of Jacksonville...and up into Brusnwick...but I could be wrong on that.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Transfers gonna happen, pretty much every single year. And after the NCAA passes the new rule allowing one free transfer without sitting out, they are going to happen more frequently. Adapt or die.

 

[NUCat320]

Yeah, and I though he lived mostly north of Jacksonville...and up into Brusnwick...but I could be wrong on that.

Powder Springs — West Cobb County, north of Six Flags. 30-45 minutes from ATL.

 

[corbi296]

Transfers gonna happen, pretty much every single year. And after the NCAA passes the new rule allowing one free transfer without sitting out, they are going to happen more frequently. Adapt or die.

Maybe, but Transfers to this degree have never happened at NU. While the current rules make transferring easier, the amount of transfers NU has experienced in a short period of time suggest more than dissatisfaction with playing time. It suggests unhappiness with the staff and the direction of the program.

 

[NUThump]

Maybe, but Transfers to this degree have never happened at NU. While the current rules make transferring easier, the amount of transfers NU has experienced in a short period of time suggest more than dissatisfaction with playing time. It suggests unhappiness with the staff and the direction of the program.

Nah. Here is an article from 2017 saying Duke had 8 transfers in 5 years. Coach K and the direction of that program are fine.

https://247sports.com/college/duke/Gallery/Tracking-Dukes-Recent-Transfers-113011700/

 

[cometclear]

Nah. Here is an article from 2017 saying Duke had 8 transfers in 5 years. Coach K and the direction of that program are fine.

https://247sports.com/college/duke/Gallery/Tracking-Dukes-Recent-Transfers-113011700/

Duke...Northwestern...well done.

 

[NUThump]

Duke...Northwestern...well done.

The post I responded to (admittedly by a poster that doesn't follow basketball closely) said a high number of transfers suggests dissatisfaction with the coaching staff and direction of the program. I think it is more the state of college basketball today.

 

[lunker35]

The post I responded to (admittedly by a poster that doesn't follow basketball closely) said a high number of transfers suggests dissatisfaction with the coaching staff and direction of the program. I think it is more the state of college basketball today.

Agreed. It’s the state of college hoops.

 

[freewillie07]

Maybe, but Transfers to this degree have never happened at NU. While the current rules make transferring easier, the amount of transfers NU has experienced in a short period of time suggest more than dissatisfaction with playing time. It suggests unhappiness with the staff and the direction of the program.

I refuse to make blanket statements about how an increase in transfers from NU "suggests unhappiness with the staff and the direction of the program" without some data on whether the number of transfers from NU in the past several years is greater than or less than average across the rest of the Big Ten, or Power 5, or Division I.

If anyone has a link to such data, I'd love to see it. The Duke example was an attempt at it but can't extrapolate from that alone.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Maybe, but Transfers to this degree have never happened at NU. While the current rules make transferring easier, the amount of transfers NU has experienced in a short period of time suggest more than dissatisfaction with playing time. It suggests unhappiness with the staff and the direction of the program.

Given that CCC is bringing in higher caliber players, the transfer itch is something I would expect more of, especially from talented guys who aren’t getting starter minutes. I don’t like seeing Jones leave as I thought he provided quality depth, but I’m not shocked.

 

[Medill90]

Nebraska has had three or four transfers this spring....two or three frosh and a JUCO who came in last year. The latest is frosh Kevin Cross who average 18 min, 7 pts and 4 rebounds in 32 games. Rumor is he's looking at Arkansas where his family lives.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

This is a great example of how misleading internet reported offers can be. Jones was pegged as a rising star his sophomore year, but fell dramatically from that perch when the scrutiny of his game was kicked up a couple of notches. The early interest from the UNC’s of the world evaporated quickly. He was still a good prospect when he signed with NU. And I believe he could have matured into a valuable player for the Cats. But this is the new norm. Kids aren’t committing to schools or even coaches anymore. They are signing up for opportunities to strut their stuff.. And many move on at the drop of a pin for what they think will be better playing/exposure opportunities. Sometimes early as with JJ. Sometimes late as with Ben Skowronek.

I use to be a staunch critic of schools thinning their rosters. But let’s be honest. The rule now is that everything is an arrangement that lasts only as long as both sides want it to.

Best wishes to JJ. By all accounts he’s a terrific young man.

GOUNUII

don't forget he was going to auburn until he hurt his knee and they pulled his scholarship.

 

[Sec.112]

... Transfers to this degree have never happened at NU ...

"Never happened to this degree?"

It's happened with EVERY modern NU coach. Unfortunately, it's part of the NU thing.

Foster - Was it two mass exoduses or just one?
Byrdsong - Geno ... oh, Geno ... plus at least one guy every year
O'Neill - Revolving door
Carmody - He had quite a string there before Hardy took over. The five guys in two years four or five seasons into his tenure was my favorite. And some of the oddest circumstances around multiple departures I've ever seen.

If you want to tell me it's something we should watch closely, I agree. Does anybody think more Zoom meetings really would have prevented this?

There's going to be some weird sh*t with player choices until everybody is playing again in comfortable circumstances.

 

[GatoLouco]

Agreed. It’s the state of college hoops.

Yes it is.

But this one is also a transfer after a freshman year where he actually saw playing time. Not a lot, but not insignificant for a freshman. Not even giving it a couple of years to fight for more time and relevance. It's not Audige wanting to play at a higher level.

Because of this, like others I wonder if there's more than just basketball reasons for this. Specifically program related reasons. Speculation on every aspect but can't help worrying.

 

[GatoLouco]

Louisville's academic acceptance rate is close to 75%. Northwestern's is 8%.

If you can get into a school on the academic level of an NU and go for free, why would you choose a school on the academic level of a Louisville..

Because most kids value basketball over academics?

I lived in Louisville 3 years. And it's a whole different world
1) Academics are poor - close to everyone who wants to go to the school can go. I had employees who could barely read and write and were attending
2) Campus, while having good sports facilities, is in a terrible area of town. It's ugliness all around.
3) City is not awful as an overall place but it's far from vibrant

And yet:
4) Team plays in an arena bigger than any NBA arena
5) Games sell out, constantly
6) 80% of the city supports UL. 20% UK. Got those numbers out of my ass, but point made
7) Overwhelmingly the fans value the basketball program more than the football
8) Overwhelmingly the fans value the basketball team more than any other team on the planet. By a landslide

Ultimately, despite all the negatives, it's as close to playing for free for an NBA team as you get.

It's about basketball, not academics.

 

[techtim72]

I am always amazed at the discussions as to how any player could consider schools other than NU. Players that can play competitively at the P5 level all believe they have a shot at the NBA and spend 99.9 percent of their time thinking about basketball. They want to get coached up and get playing time. Last thing they focus on in selecting a school is academics. I know, a gross generalization. The decision to go to Louisville is a no-brainer if a player thinks he sees a path to getting playing time.

 

[NUCat320]

I am always amazed at the discussions as to how any player could consider schools other than NU. Players that can play competitively at the P5 level all believe they have a shot at the NBA and spend 99.9 percent of their time thinking about basketball. They want to get coached up and get playing time. Last thing they focus on in selecting a school is academics. I know, a gross generalization. The decision to go to Louisville is a no-brainer if a player thinks he sees a path to getting playing time.

I was a student journalist at NU when Jovan Witherspoon (!) had just committed to NU, and had a rare conversation about recruiting with Coach Walker.

While he said many wiser things that I keep with me today (“Keep the main thing the main thing”), it was fascinating to hear him say, regarding the recruiting process, “I want every recruit to expect to win four Heismans.”

They are football/basketball players first — and NU is a benefit for top recruits firstly to the extent they believe NU can help them play at the highest level. This is how it has to be if NU wants to win at an elite level.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Louisville's academic acceptance rate is close to 75%. Northwestern's is 8%.

If you can get into a school on the academic level of an NU and go for free, why would you choose a school on the academic level of a Louisville.

If you want the weather, go to Vanderbilt.

He's top 50 bball, he's not top 5. Look at Talen Horton Tucker who jumped from ISU to the NBA and played the G League. A year at ISU and a handful of years in the G League.
Really, what's the point. This is on the parents.

You answered your own question. NBA

 

[DaCat]

I am always amazed at the discussions as to how any player could consider schools other than NU. Players that can play competitively at the P5 level all believe they have a shot at the NBA and spend 99.9 percent of their time thinking about basketball. They want to get coached up and get playing time. Last thing they focus on in selecting a school is academics. I know, a gross generalization. The decision to go to Louisville is a no-brainer if a player thinks he sees a path to getting playing time.

You mean Cardale Jones was right after all?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Yes it is.

But this one is also a transfer after a freshman year where he actually saw playing time. Not a lot, but not insignificant for a freshman. Not even giving it a couple of years to fight for more time and relevance. It's not Audige wanting to play at a higher level.

Because of this, like others I wonder if there's more than just basketball reasons for this. Specifically program related reasons. Speculation on every aspect but can't help worrying.

This is the same wild speculation we had last year when Falzone, Benson and whichever other back up we had transferring. Players want to play. It is happening at just about every school and has historically happened at NU for ages. it isn’t going to stop and you can bring John Wooden back from the grave and he would have transfers.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I am always amazed at the discussions as to how any player could consider schools other than NU. Players that can play competitively at the P5 level all believe they have a shot at the NBA and spend 99.9 percent of their time thinking about basketball. They want to get coached up and get playing time. Last thing they focus on in selecting a school is academics. I know, a gross generalization. The decision to go to Louisville is a no-brainer if a player thinks he sees a path to getting playing time.

Yes, it is a gross generalization and it is not what people want to hear, but in my opinion it is absolutely true. The reality is most players in revenue sports think they have a shot at the League. The fall back of a NU degree sounds great, but they want to go to the place that best helps them get to the league. I just don’t get it when we get posters that are puzzled when a recruit picks ( insert non-academic peer here) over NU when they have a history of a strong athletic oprogram. This isn’t Sally the star HS math wizard selecting Western Illinois over NU. There is an actual logical thought process in why someone like Hopkins would select Louisville over NU. It takes a lot of faith to step into a program that hasn’t shown they can do it when you have suitors galore that have proven they can. Hopefully, PBJ and Max will have that faith in NU.

 

[CappyNU]

Yes it is.

But this one is also a transfer after a freshman year where he actually saw playing time. Not a lot, but not insignificant for a freshman. Not even giving it a couple of years to fight for more time and relevance. It's not Audige wanting to play at a higher level.

Because of this, like others I wonder if there's more than just basketball reasons for this. Specifically program related reasons. Speculation on every aspect but can't help worrying.

I really think it's as simple as there is only 1 center position, Ryan Young has earned at least 2/3 of minutes, and Nicholson is coming in next year. My guess is Collins told him that Nicholson wasn't going to redshirt, and he would be fighting for minutes much like this year. Jones' shooting isn't good enough to play stretch-4, and even if it was, Nance and Beran are ahead of him there so it would be the same situation. Combine that with the uncertainty of things right now and I don't think you need to look for more reasons about why he's transferring. This is modern-day college basketball, transfers happen with high frequency.

Per Verbal Commits, the number of transfers per year:
2012: 577
2013: 672
2014: 752
2015: 826
2016: 794
2017: 894
2018: 872
2019: 996
2020: 804 so far

There are 353 teams in D1. Every team will have 2-3 transfers per year now, that's just how things go.

 

[TheC]

Yes, it is a gross generalization and it is not what people want to hear, but in my opinion it is absolutely true. The reality is most players in revenue sports think they have a shot at the League. The fall back of a NU degree sounds great, but they want to go to the place that best helps them get to the league. I just don’t get it when we get posters that are puzzled when a recruit picks ( insert non-academic peer here) over NU when they have a history of a strong athletic oprogram. This isn’t Sally the star HS math wizard selecting Western Illinois over NU. There is an actual logical thought process in why someone like Hopkins would select Louisville over NU. It takes a lot of faith to step into a program that hasn’t shown they can do it when you have suitors galore that have proven they can. Hopefully, PBJ and Max will have that faith in NU.

The other point is that I think we all tend to overvalue an NU degree. Plenty of people in this country have gone on to lead successful, mostly happy lives and most of them didn't go to NU. In the short term, for a basketball player, NU sadly has to be one of the least desirable locations. Very little to no tradition, poor fan support, not much media attention. And in the long term, well... even people who went to Louisville end up doing ok in life and some are quite successful.

Also - put me in the camp who thinks this is a very painful loss. Jones was one of my favorites in terms of potential. We have no one with his size and athleticism, yet we routinely saw guys on other teams with that kind of size and athleticism simply destroy us.

 

[Sec.112]

The other point is that I think we all tend to overvalue an NU degree. Plenty of people in this country have gone on to lead successful, mostly happy lives and most of them didn't go to NU ...

I was going in this direction.

There's several good basketball programs out there that also provide a very strong academic experience - maybe not elite, but incredibly competitive. If somebody also is focused on academics, you're going to be well-prepared at many B10 academic programs alone.

 

[Medill90]

I was going in this direction.

There's several good basketball programs out there that also provide a very strong academic experience - maybe not elite, but incredibly competitive. If somebody also is focused on academics, you're going to be well-prepared at many B10 academic programs alone.

Yeah, which is why I wrote Vanderbilt. Perhaps the discussions stopped early and NU had ceased to be an option.

I agree that you can get a degree and do well on a whole spectrum of schools. But some are more rigorous than others and the business world knows that. It can make life easier.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Two words: Cher Ajou.

He was closer to 9 feet, wasn't he?

 

[GatoLouco]

GatoLouco said:

↑



Yes it is.

But this one is also a transfer after a freshman year where he actually saw playing time. Not a lot, but not insignificant for a freshman. Not even giving it a couple of years to fight for more time and relevance. It's not Audige wanting to play at a higher level.

Because of this, like others I wonder if there's more than just basketball reasons for this. Specifically program related reasons. Speculation on every aspect but can't help worrying.

This is the same wild speculation we had last year when Falzone, Benson and whichever other back up we had transferring. Players want to play. It is happening at just about every school and has historically happened at NU for ages. it isn’t going to stop and you can bring John Wooden back from the grave and he would have transfers.
[/quote]
Sure it’s speculation. But almost every opinion is, at least to some extent, speculation. It is also speculation saying that “players want to play” applies to JJ. Not sure what’s wrong with speculation. It’s people thinking through the information they have.


Personally I am only bothered by the idea that this could mean that there’s a problem within the team and staff. That’s my speculation. Not even going to say I hope I’m wrong as I do not claim to believe that. Just claim to be worried about it.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

Because most kids value basketball over academics?

It's about basketball, not academics.

Yeah, the YUM Center is phenomenal. But you're selling the food/city pretty short. Please tell me you had a chance to make it to Doc Crow's or Lynn's Paradise Cafe? Impellezzeri's is also pretty legit pizza.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

The other point is that I think we all tend to overvalue an NU degree. Plenty of people in this country have gone on to lead successful, mostly happy lives and most of them didn't go to NU. In the short term, for a basketball player, NU sadly has to be one of the least desirable locations. Very little to no tradition, poor fan support, not much media attention. And in the long term, well... even people who went to Louisville end up doing ok in life and some are quite successful.

Also - put me in the camp who thinks this is a very painful loss. Jones was one of my favorites in terms of potential. We have no one with his size and athleticism, yet we routinely saw guys on other teams with that kind of size and athleticism simply destroy us.

Doubling down on this board overvaluing an NU degree. In a conversation about Jefress someone said that hopefully Jefress values the NU degree and picks that over Notre Dame. Come on . . I love Northwestern, but in the real world there is little to no difference in saying that you went to Northwestern vs Notre Dame, Georgetown, UVA, Vanderbilt, Michigan, Cal or any other number of schools that we lose recruits to.

 

[Medill '03]

I really think it's as simple as there is only 1 center position, Ryan Young has earned at least 2/3 of minutes, and Nicholson is coming in next year. My guess is Collins told him that Nicholson wasn't going to redshirt, and he would be fighting for minutes much like this year. Jones' shooting isn't good enough to play stretch-4, and even if it was, Nance and Beran are ahead of him there so it would be the same situation. Combine that with the uncertainty of things right now and I don't think you need to look for more reasons about why he's transferring. This is modern-day college basketball, transfers happen with high frequency.

Per Verbal Commits, the number of transfers per year:
2012: 577
2013: 672
2014: 752
2015: 826
2016: 794
2017: 894
2018: 872
2019: 996
2020: 804 so far

There are 353 teams in D1. Every team will have 2-3 transfers per year now, that's just how things go.

As usual, you are a voice of reason, Cappy.

 

[GatoLouco]

GatoLouco said:

↑



Because most kids value basketball over academics?

It's about basketball, not academics.

Yeah, the YUM Center is phenomenal. But you're selling the food/city pretty short. Please tell me you had a chance to make it to Doc Crow's or Lynn's Paradise Cafe? Impellezzeri's is also pretty legit pizza.
[/quote]
Doc Crow’s was a regular place for pre eats before Cards games paid for by vendors. Very good food. Lynn’s went once. But never to Paradise Cafe.

I thought the city was better than I expected it to be. But my comments were more from a young person’s perspective. But if that was a qualifier to choose a college we’d get top 10 talent

 

[Gladeskat]

But assuming you don't have a shot at professional basketball why would you trade a Northwestern degree for a lesser education

It depends upon his likes and interests.

This isn’t Sally the star HS math wizard selecting Western Illinois over NU. There is an actual logical thought process in why someone like Hopkins would select Louisville over NU.

Heck, I should have selected Western Illinois over Northwestern. They had a nice little river ecology program with lots of undergraduate research opportunities. NU sits on a Great Lake and offers nothing in aquatic ecology. LOL!

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Maybe, but Transfers to this degree have never happened at NU. While the current rules make transferring easier, the amount of transfers NU has experienced in a short period of time suggest more than dissatisfaction with playing time. It suggests unhappiness with the staff and the direction of the program.

i broke this down a while back

NU is not out of the norm

 

[curdog]

The other point is that I think we all tend to overvalue an NU degree. Plenty of people in this country have gone on to lead successful, mostly happy lives and most of them didn't go to NU. In the short term, for a basketball player, NU sadly has to be one of the least desirable locations. Very little to no tradition, poor fan support, not much media attention. And in the long term, well... even people who went to Louisville end up doing ok in life and some are quite successful.

Also - put me in the camp who thinks this is a very painful loss. Jones was one of my favorites in terms of potential. We have no one with his size and athleticism, yet we routinely saw guys on other teams with that kind of size and athleticism simply destroy us.

This pretty much sums up my feelings exactly. I thought Jones had the potential to be really good. We shall see.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

It depends upon his likes and interests.



Heck, I should have selected Western Illinois over Northwestern. They had a nice little river ecology program with lots of undergraduate research opportunities. NU sits on a Great Lake and offers nothing in aquatic ecology. LOL!

Totally agree with depending on interests. Not only that but where you wanna end up working because if you wanna stay in state some local school have more than decent enough schooling to land you a job in state.

 

[Turk]

Most likely, covid19 is having a great effect on portals and recruits. Ask usc football, which have had hard times keeping top in state talent.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29077578/source-korey-foreman-decommits-clemson
Now they are flipping Clemson recruits. Players want to stay closer to home wihen there is so much uncertainty in the future regarding new social measures and classroom due to covid19.
Think people! I imagine Jones may end up closer to home.

Of course. Sadly, this board digresses into dopey comments. Too many geeks and bookworms on this board who just can't comprehend. Although the whole "Collins is responsible" for Jones' transfer is ridiculous, and the "Jones didn't think he could compete with our other stud players" is laughable, the All Turk Award for the most laughable comments are those who are actually excited and claim that this will free up another scholarship for some stud in 2021. Sorry, but the Jones transfer will crush next season, if there is a season. He was coming around and had boatloads of more learning and potential.
I'll give you points Wickerpark, it's coronavirus and he won't be the last player to work his way back home in the NCAA due to the virus

 

[Hungry Jack]

Of course. Sadly, this board digresses into dopey comments. Too many geeks and bookworms on this board who just can't comprehend. Although the whole "Collins is responsible" for Jones' transfer is ridiculous, and the "Jones didn't think he could compete with our other stud players" is laughable, the All Turk Award for the most laughable comments are those who are actually excited and claim that this will free up another scholarship for some stud in 2021. Sorry, but the Jones transfer will crush next season, if there is a season. He was coming around and had boatloads of more learning and potential.
I'll give you points Wickerpark, it's coronavirus and he won't be the last player to work his way back home in the NCAA due to the virus

Turk what the hell???

 

[EvanstonCat]

It's not just transfers, it's the amount of transfers over a short period of time that suggest this goes beyond just players disgruntled about their playing time.

Regarding Hopkins, he is a top local recruit from a top academic HS. If Collins can't convince top kids from his own backyard that actually have the academic chops for NU to buy into what he is building at NU, then I think he is going to struggle selling his message with kids nationally.

Someone put up a list of transfers from all the B1G teams over the last 3-4 years. NU I think was somewhere like #12 out of 14. We have a lot less transfers than most programs in the B1G. It's the nature of the beast now. Kids want to play.

Underwood can't even recruit the Blue Chips out of Chicago to the U of I. The reality is the best kids in Chicago are being sought after by the best programs in the nation. And by the way, that includes Duke, which has an equally appealing academic sell and much more to offer a kid. Which is why if CCC beats his mentor for PBJ and MC he does deserve a statue.