Mel Tucker just dismissed @ Spartan Stadium.

[12375CAT]

Spartans Illustrated - Michigan State has served notice to terminate Mel Tucker as football coach

Michigan State has served notice of intent to Mel Tucker it will be terminating its employment agreement with Tucker.

michiganstate.rivals.com

 

[phatcat]

which, in the University's reasonable judgement, would tend to bring public disrespect, contempt, or ridicule upon the University.".


So, like, his coaching?

 

[CatManTrue]

So, it’s official: we’re still morally superior to MSU, PSU, OSU?

Can @EvanstonCat or anyone else verify where we stand in the Big Ten’s morality rankings? We used to be #1… right?

MSU Coach Mel Tucker releases statement on contract termination

Coach Mel Tucker will be fired from Michigan State University’s (MSU) Athletics Department. Athletic Director Alan Haller made the announcement on Monday.

www.fox17online.com

 

[wicker]

Oh those damn hormones
Getting people in trouble
Since the dawn of time

 

[FeralFelidae]

So, it’s official: we’re still morally superior to MSU, PSU, OSU?

Nothing's official until Loretta Lynch is finished with her do-over investigation.

 

[Jaguar 88]

So, it’s official: we’re still morally superior to MSU, PSU, OSU?

Can @EvanstonCat or anyone else verify where we stand in the Big Ten’s morality rankings? We used to be #1… right?

MSU Coach Mel Tucker releases statement on contract termination

Coach Mel Tucker will be fired from Michigan State University’s (MSU) Athletics Department. Athletic Director Alan Haller made the announcement on Monday.

www.fox17online.com

Nobody cares about morality rankings anymore as the almighty dollar is the only thing that matters in CFB. Being #1 in the "morality rankings" and $10 will get you a Happy Meal at McDonald's.

 

[stpaulcat]

Very sad situation all around. How could one destroy their career over wanting sex? It happens all the time, however. The sad part is, sex comes easy--if one is an honest, decent person. So the flaw of Tucker is revealed, and he would have been done in one way or another. There is no relation in any way to Northwestern and Fitz. Fitz is an honorable man, caught in a situation he should have been aware of, but apparently was not.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Nothing's official until Loretta Lynch is finished with her do-over investigation.

Pretty perfunctory, IMO. A full house cleaning is likely to occur after the season no matter what.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Very sad situation all around. How could one destroy their career over wanting sex? It happens all the time, however. The sad part is, sex comes easy--if one is an honest, decent person. So the flaw of Tucker is revealed, and he would have been done in one way or another. There is no relation in any way to Northwestern and Fitz. Fitz is an honorable man, caught in a situation he should have been aware of, but apparently was not.

By being very very very dumb.

 

[loyolacat]

So are there any normal college football coaches? or does the pressure to win and the amount of money involved either warp their normal personalities or just attract goof balls. except for being snarky Fitz might of been pretty high up on the normalacy scale. The guy from Indiana is just gonna run right out of the stadium one day at a high rate of speed, still grinning like a cheshire cat. They one day will discover that Fleck is a Russina Spy.....and Franklin will permanetly freeze one day staring at himself in the mirror,

 

[Jaguar 88]

Very sad situation all around. How could one destroy their career over wanting sex? It happens all the time, however. The sad part is, sex comes easy--if one is an honest, decent person. So the flaw of Tucker is revealed, and he would have been done in one way or another. There is no relation in any way to Northwestern and Fitz. Fitz is an honorable man, caught in a situation he should have been aware of, but apparently was not.

Fitz had his issues, just not weird perverted ones. I still think he was targeted to have the door slammed shut on him in terms of his job so there would not be a massive payout in the end.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Fitz had his issues, just not weird perverted ones. I still think he was targeted to have the door slammed shut on him in terms of his job so there would not be a massive payout in the end.

If he did indeed give tacit approval to forced simulated sexual acts, that rises to some level of perversion.

 

[curdog]

Pretty perfunctory, IMO. A full house cleaning is likely to occur after the season no matter what.

What does “full house cleaning” entail? I’m assuming all the football coaches. But what about the coaches of other teams who have had hazing accusations? Does the cleaning include Schill and Gragg? Any board members?

 

[Hungry Jack]

Very sad situation all around. How could one destroy their career over wanting sex? It happens all the time, however. The sad part is, sex comes easy--if one is an honest, decent person. So the flaw of Tucker is revealed, and he would have been done in one way or another. There is no relation in any way to Northwestern and Fitz. Fitz is an honorable man, caught in a situation he should have been aware of, but apparently was not.

It's not a black and white question of "good" and "bad" people. "Good" people to bad things often (and vice versa). Just the way it is.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

MSU firing him on moral grounds is pretty sketchy.

I have no ties to the guy - I don't think much of him - but this seems "probably" like some weird relationship between consenting adults that went off the rails.

The fact that Ms Tracy leaked the story to the media, while the school was following an agreed-upon course of investigation, is an indication of retribution. (Until proven otherwise, I don't believe that she leaked the story because somebody at MSU had leaked her name to the media.)

 

[Sheffielder]

So are there any normal college football coaches? or does the pressure to win and the amount of money involved either warp their normal personalities or just attract goof balls. except for being snarky Fitz might of been pretty high up on the normalacy scale. The guy from Indiana is just gonna run right out of the stadium one day at a high rate of speed, still grinning like a cheshire cat. They one day will discover that Fleck is a Russina Spy.....and Franklin will permanetly freeze one day staring at himself in the mirror,

When you really think about what it takes to be a successful "professional" football coach (college or NFL), it should not surprise anyone when we see extreme behaviors, whether we're talking about tantrums, obsessive controls, family issues, or what I'll generally call "deviant" behavior because of the god complex and perceived unlimited power in the space that you occupy. It's one of the many reasons I'm happy to live a relative life of obscurity.

 

[stpaulcat]

It's not a black and white question of "good" and "bad" people. "Good" people to bad things often (and vice versa). Just the way it is.

Not saying Tucker is a bad person, just apparently prone to f*** up.

 

[GatoLouco]

So are there any normal college football coaches? or does the pressure to win and the amount of money involved either warp their normal personalities or just attract goof balls. except for being snarky Fitz might of been pretty high up on the normalacy scale. The guy from Indiana is just gonna run right out of the stadium one day at a high rate of speed, still grinning like a cheshire cat. They one day will discover that Fleck is a Russina Spy.....and Franklin will permanetly freeze one day staring at himself in the mirror,

This guy was normal

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

This guy was normal

based on another Rick Astley video?

 

[GatoLouco]

based on another Rick Astley video?

It's another way of saying my opinion is that most elite coaches will be prone to not being normal. I think like players, if you are elite you tend to be just relentlessly, compulsively competitive. Pathologically so. I am not surprised they exhibit out of the norm behaviors.

In sum, you want normal, warm and fuzzy, find Ted Lasso.

 

[techtim72]

Was there more to it than he had phone sex - or whatever - with a woman and the woman decided to let the world know that she now considered it inappropriate? If someone knows more of the details let me know because frankly I just found the whole affair tawdry and not worth the brain cells. If my brief summary is more or less accurate what exactly did Tucker do wrong other than pick the wrong woman? How many billions of men have had a similar turn of events after having sex with someone they were getting to know. I get tired of the abuse from those who consider all women to be unassailable, particularly on recall of events in the distant past, but why does a man lose his job over a personal matter like this? Now I have to admit that the fact she is a sexual assault expert (?) employed by the school throws a twist. For me, involving yourself with someone who criticizes men for a living is evidence of stupidity. For that he should be made to marry her, not lose his job.

 

[Hungry Jack]

MSU firing him on moral grounds is pretty sketchy.

I have no ties to the guy - I don't think much of him - but this seems "probably" like some weird relationship between consenting adults that went off the rails.

I suspect you are correct. Mrs. Jack has seen a few tales like this (former labor & employment lawyer). It is almost always consensual until it sours, then it becomes a case of harassment or discrimination.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Was there more to it than he had phone sex - or whatever - with a woman and the woman decided to let the world know that she now considered it inappropriate? If someone knows more of the details let me know because frankly I just found the whole affair tawdry and not worth the brain cells. If my brief summary is more or less accurate what exactly did Tucker do wrong other than pick the wrong woman? How many billions of men have had a similar turn of events after having sex with someone they were getting to know. I get tired of the abuse from those who consider all women to be unassailable, particularly on recall of events in the distant past, but why does a man lose his job over a personal matter like this? Now I have to admit that the fact she is a sexual assault expert (?) employed by the school throws a twist. For me, involving yourself with someone who criticizes men for a living is evidence of stupidity. For that he should be made to marry her, not lose his job.

All we know is... Tucker is married. Tucker and Tracy liked each other. She did presentations to the football team as a hired professional. They talked regularly. In one phone call, he gratified himself. She knew he was doing that and stayed on the phone. Then he stopped taking her calls. She complained to MSU. They were in the middle of an investigation. She told her side of things o the USA Today.

 

[hdhntr1]

Y

Nobody cares about morality rankings anymore as the almighty dollar is the only thing that matters in CFB. Being #1 in the "morality rankings" and $10 will get you a Happy Meal at McDonald's.

You sure about that? Inflation is still pretty high

 

[Catreporter]

An ugly court fight is ahead on this one. Tucker will not go quietly, and on the surface, it looks like he has a case that the school was using this as an excuse to dump his contract,

 

[hdhntr1]

Pretty perfunctory, IMO. A full house cleaning is likely to occur after the season no matter what.

Would think that it is highly likely. Either we bring in a new HC and he will want his own guys or Braun is kept and everyone from the previous group has to be let go as if Fitz was fired because he should have known, how do you keep them?

 

[hdhntr1]

Fitz had his issues, just not weird perverted ones. I still think he was targeted to have the door slammed shut on him in terms of his job so there would not be a massive payout in the end.

I would guess that the way they did it it will backfire on them

 

[hdhntr1]

So are there any normal college football coaches? or does the pressure to win and the amount of money involved either warp their normal personalities or just attract goof balls. except for being snarky Fitz might of been pretty high up on the normalacy scale. The guy from Indiana is just gonna run right out of the stadium one day at a high rate of speed, still grinning like a cheshire cat. They one day will discover that Fleck is a Russina Spy.....and Franklin will permanetly freeze one day staring at himself in the mirror,

When programs are lining up to give them millions per year and long term contracts, pretty easy to not be "normal"

 

[Jaguar 88]

Y

You sure about that? Inflation is still pretty high

I looked it up actually! It fluctuates depending on what size of the meal you get.

 

[Sheffielder]

Was there more to it than he had phone sex - or whatever - with a woman and the woman decided to let the world know that she now considered it inappropriate? If someone knows more of the details let me know because frankly I just found the whole affair tawdry and not worth the brain cells. If my brief summary is more or less accurate what exactly did Tucker do wrong other than pick the wrong woman? How many billions of men have had a similar turn of events after having sex with someone they were getting to know. I get tired of the abuse from those who consider all women to be unassailable, particularly on recall of events in the distant past, but why does a man lose his job over a personal matter like this? Now I have to admit that the fact she is a sexual assault expert (?) employed by the school throws a twist. For me, involving yourself with someone who criticizes men for a living is evidence of stupidity. For that he should be made to marry her, not lose his job.

For whatever it's worth, I really do try to maintain a neutral position when gathering "facts" as they are told to us by the media and other sources, with the hope that my good sense can at least get a baseline of what few things all parties mutually agree on.

I think people agree that Tracy was brought to campus in a professional capacity and Mel Tucker grew fond of her. Tucker had very direct influence on the degree to which she was brought in for consulting, which placed her in a disadvantaged power dynamic as would be the case in any vendor/client relationship. Now, whether there was a consensual romantic relationship or not is obviously in dispute, but it's not hard to imagine where she was "overly" friendly by some standards looking to nurture a business relationship, and Tucker misread those signals. What seems to not be in dispute is that Tucker acted in a sexual manner that he insists was consensual, she insists wasn't, and the university insists was inappropriate regardless of consent, based on context and venue.

Objectively, the lesson here is not to pursue romantic or sexual interests where there is a professional dynamic in play, or you must do so knowing that your job and reputation are at risk. No one should really have to explain this to someone with one of the most lucrative contracts in the sport, but whatever...we're not exactly in a great position to throw stones over what a millionaire head coach should know or not.

 

[FeralFelidae]

It's another way of saying my opinion is that most elite coaches will be prone to not being normal. I think like players, if you are elite you tend to be just relentlessly, compulsively competitive. Pathologically so. I am not surprised they exhibit out of the norm behaviors.

In sum, you want normal, warm and fuzzy, find Ted Lasso.

I don't think there's anything immoral about being competitive (when playing within the rules).

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

For whatever it's worth, I really do try to maintain a neutral position when gathering "facts" as they are told to us by the media and other sources, with the hope that my good sense can at least get a baseline of what few things all parties mutually agree on.

I think people agree that Tracy was brought to campus in a professional capacity and Mel Tucker grew fond of her. Tucker had very direct influence on the degree to which she was brought in for consulting, which placed her in a disadvantaged power dynamic as would be the case in any vendor/client relationship. Now, whether there was a consensual romantic relationship or not is obviously in dispute, but it's not hard to imagine where she was "overly" friendly by some standards looking to nurture a business relationship, and Tucker misread those signals. What seems to not be in dispute is that Tucker acted in a sexual manner that he insists was consensual, she insists wasn't, and the university insists was inappropriate regardless of consent, based on context and venue.

Objectively, the lesson here is not to pursue romantic or sexual interests where there is a professional dynamic in play, or you must do so knowing that your job and reputation are at risk. No one should really have to explain this to someone with one of the most lucrative contracts in the sport, but whatever...we're not exactly in a great position to throw stones over what a millionaire head coach should know or not.

Is it common for innocent people to delete their text messages to each other after a traumatic incident?
I can see where Tucker would delete messages he sent to Tracy, but I cannot fathom why she would delete those messages. Unless they don't align with her story.

I mean, that seems pretty obvious, right?
Sort of like "hang up the phone."

 

[Alaskawildkat]

I suspect you are correct. Mrs. Jack has seen a few tales like this (former labor & employment lawyer). It is almost always consensual until it sours, then it becomes a case of harassment or discrimination.

An ugly court fight is ahead on this one. Tucker will not go quietly, and on the surface, it looks like he has a case that the school was using this as an excuse to dump his contract,

Not to mention the likely divorce litigation related to how the millions Tucker is likely to receive from the settlement or Court award following a jury trial before a probably all Black jury in Michigan will be divided.

Haven’t checked to see if Michigan.is a Community Property State but If so I could see an argument that half of those millions would go to his X whether they remain estranged or are officially divorced when the payday arrives,

 

[Sheffielder]

Is it common for innocent people to delete their text messages to each other after a traumatic incident?
I can see where Tucker would delete messages he sent to Tracy, but I cannot fathom why she would delete those messages. Unless they don't align with her story.

I mean, that seems pretty obvious, right?
Sort of like "hang up the phone."

Even if 9 out of 10 people were to agree that Tracy led him on once all this information comes to light (because like I said, it's very possible she was "overly friendly" with the client to the point of where it will reflect negatively on her) the power dynamic still is what it is - the person with all the power in the workplace has the most to lose, so it is incumbent upon that person to decide whether it's worth the risk or not, because we know the other person can assert it was non-consensual at any point, or assert they were only complicit under duress. This to me is as common sense as smoking can kill you.

Mel Tucker's options were virtually limitless...think with your big head, don't date anyone you meet at work, don't have an affair, don't masturbate on the phone and tell the other person you're doing it (see also: don't sext), hire a prostitute, coach high school so millions of college football fans don't care who you are or when you're masturbating, and so on.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Even if 9 out of 10 people were to agree that Tracy led him on once all this information comes to light (because like I said, it's very possible she was "overly friendly" with the client to the point of where it will reflect negatively on her) the power dynamic still is what it is - the person with all the power in the workplace has the most to lose, so it is incumbent upon that person to decide whether it's worth the risk or not, because we know the other person can assert it was non-consensual at any point, or assert they were only complicit under duress. This to me is as common sense as smoking can kill you.

Mel Tucker's options were virtually limitless...think with your big head, don't date anyone you meet at work, don't have an affair, don't masturbate on the phone and tell the other person you're doing it (see also: don't sext), hire a prostitute, coach high school so millions of college football fans don't care who you are or when you're masturbating, and so on.

I agree completely. He knowingly went down a really stupid path. I'm sure he didn't know it at the time, but admitting to MSU that he had masturbated on that phone call was a colossal mistake. Had he simply lied, he'd still be collecting an enormous paycheck. I guess he knew there were texts out there that would expose the lie. I'm also guessing that Ms Tracy deleted all her texts after she was told that Tucker had admitted it to MSU. Lets see how much money she gets out of this.

 

[NUCat320]

The moral is the story is “don’t jerk off
while on a university issued phone with a person with whom you have a direct business relationship and over you therefore have direct financial impact, or, at least don’t tell her that’s what you’re doing.”

What an idiot.

 

[IGNORE2]

Wonder if PF hired the wrong lawyers cuz Tucker jumped right on retorting the wrongful termination allegations…or maybe it’s something else. Has PF filed suit yet

 

[FeralFelidae]

Wonder if PF hired the wrong lawyers cuz Tucker jumped right on retorting the wrongful termination allegations…or maybe it’s something else. Has PF filed suit yet

Tucker's lawyers are trying to prevent him from being fired for cause, whereas Fitz was already fired for cause. I'm sure Fitz's lawyers would have a different strategy if they were still trying to prevent an event that had not yet already happened.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/column...oretta-lynch-pat-fitzgerald-rahm-greta-gerwig

"Webb said firing Fitzgerald was 'not only a violation of his written employment contract with the university but also a violation of a recently entered-into oral contract agreement with the university that Fitzgerald would only be suspended for two weeks … and not terminated. Period.'"

 

[IGNORE2]

Tucker's lawyers are trying to prevent him from being fired for cause, whereas Fitz was already fired for cause. I'm sure Fitz's lawyers would have a different strategy if they were still trying to prevent an event that had not yet already happened.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/column...oretta-lynch-pat-fitzgerald-rahm-greta-gerwig

"Webb said firing Fitzgerald was 'not only a violation of his written employment contract with the university but also a violation of a recently entered-into oral contract agreement with the university that Fitzgerald would only be suspended for two weeks … and not terminated. Period.'"

For a guy so innocent, sure taking his sweet time to prove it. There is a theory of mitigation in contract law that requires a plaintiff to minimize his damages. If I was representing NU and if there was liability, I would use that to try to cap damages. Sooner he vindicates himself, sooner he is hirable.

Now, if he isn’t innocent … then guess doesn’t matter how long he takes to bring it.

 

[FeralFelidae]

For a guy so innocent, sure taking his sweet time to prove it. There is a theory of mitigation in contract law that requires a plaintiff to minimize his damages. If I was representing NU and if there was liability, I would use that to try to cap damages. Sooner he vindicates himself, sooner he is hirable.

Now, if he isn’t innocent … then guess doesn’t matter how long he takes to bring it.

Whatever.