Murphy to Northeastern
- Thread starter NJCat
- Start date
While I generally agree with you (and that was the case here), a Chicago linebacker with 20+ offers just chose Yale over Duke, Vandy and Illinois. Micah Awodiran.
What steaming pile of sh@t is this response?
Note, if you ever want anyone to take you seriously, I would refrain from using the word "Pollyanna". Seriously.
Well skelly and Lindsey would get bench min at by my count 7 big ten schools (including northwestern) not saying substantial min but Lindsey is super good when he's feeling it the question is will he be feeling and skelly is an athletic hustle guy that can provide what he does at northwestern other places. It's not like northwestern is the worst big ten basketball school they're middle of the pack so they have players the would play on other big ten teams so I consider that big ten players. So add that to Bmac and Law that's 4. The incoming freshman class is a crapshoot for arguments so let's knock 2 away from the goal of 9-10 so 7-8. Falzon with added strength might not start at most but surely would get min as I stated that beautiful 3 point form. So 5. Ash I wouldn't make an argue for yet. Taphorn I can't really unless his defense drastically improved. Lumpkin could get min solely on his defensive ability as much hate as he gets on this board for his offense game he has had some really solid defenses performances against good schools that held us in there. So 6. Pardon showed flashes of able to be my 7th but if we are grading guys based on last season I wouldn't say he's up there yet but if I was a gambling man I'd put money on him being there by the end of his NU career. So if RI and benson are Big10 players that's 9 or if only one of them is and pardon develops a season early then you have your 9
Edit I completely forgot about brown in this whoops. Just through him down in guys we can't really debate to much about cuz we haven't seen them play.
Last edited:
Of the 12 scholarship players five did not have offers from other Big Ten teams: Lumpkin, Taphorn, Skelly, Pardon and Brown.
Lumpkin and Tap were recruited by the former coach.
Skelly and Pardon look to be competitive Big Ten players.
Brown as a freshmen just out shot the rest of the roster in summer competition.
Conclusion: Collins and staff know talent and don't offer players who can't compete in the Big Ten.
Some excellent posts reaffirming that NU has at least 9-10 Big 10 level players. So NU's 10th-12th guy was on a high school championship team and was a top 150 player. NU has a rich tradition of having players with high school basketball championships and top 150 as their 10th best player. Not!
Kevin O'Neill had one good recruiting class and then imploded. Collins has had three good classes in a row. And yes, Isaiah Brown had an offer from Washington which has a very solid program and has sent a number of guys to the pros and has the no. 2 recruiting for the 2017 class. So yes, an offer from a power 5 school is analogous to having a Big 10 offer.
Kevin O'Neill had one good recruiting class and then imploded. Collins has had three good classes in a row. And yes, Isaiah Brown had an offer from Washington which has a very solid program and has sent a number of guys to the pros and has the no. 2 recruiting for the 2017 class. So yes, an offer from a power 5 school is analogous to having a Big 10 offer.
I'm just me. Not enough care to split personalities. A few here have met me. Not sure about stupor. Seem to recall shivas was a spammer.
I loo forward to the day it no longer applies. Do you have a better description that doesn't violate board rules?
And, you can choose to not take me seriously, I often don't. This is a recreational message board to discuss things recreational. I claim no special insight or connection. Just like to talk NU sports here.
You said best recruiting in 30 years, not me. Want to conditionalize it now, go back and edit your original post.
No, I don't. In the past 30 years since 1986 there have been 5 NIT tourney appearances. Only went .500 in the league once and that was with Geno Carlisle and Eschmeyer but no depth. With three straight good recruiting classes that puts more quality athletes and depth at NU than in the past 30 years. Anyone else want to back me up v. the pessimist?
Actually, the 2003-4 NU team went 8-8 and had neither Evan Eschmeyer nor Geno. That team featured Vukusic, Davor Duvancic, Jitim, Seacat, TJ Parker and Mo Hachad. Not a bad squad.
Vassar did influence my word choice: "...who can compete in the Big Ten." Vassar has top tier physical skills and could be an elite defender. Collins did stick him into games at critical times for defense as a freshman. But half the game is offense.
Suggest you head over to the verbal commits site where conference roster info has been updated. Based on cumulative star ratings NU now ranks seventh in the conference, ahead of seven other teams.
That's a substantial move up in three years. I don't think NU has been that high since the early eighties.
Hey walker (or Chris), I went back for you to quote your post. My bad, you made no reference to the actual recruiting classes. Nope, you heralded CCC as having recruited 'harder'than any staff for more than 30 years. So, Chris, how do you know this 'factoid?' I'm a clueless, simpleton so use small words.
I'll sit back and wait for the masses that you called for to come defend your asinine statement.
Go back to recruiting hard Chris and stay off the boards. Your talent clearly stands out in the bball stadium, not here.
Last edited:
Sure, Coach has brought in highly touted guys. You can judge recruiting in three ways (at least).
1- Did you recruit blue chip H.S. guys? What were the pre-college evaluations like?
Collins passes that test, but so did Bill Foster and so did Rich Falk.
Foster signed two future NBA players, brought in a high school All-American transfer, and recruited most of the guys on Byrdsong's NIT team.
Falk recruited very well, too. He brought in some well-regarded H.S. guys but they couldn't get healthy. In 1982-83, Falk had a 7-footer Colin Murray and a 6-10 Dan Ivankovich both out with knee problems. In 1985-86, three guys had knee surgery (Ivankovich, Tim Wyss, Brian Pitts) before or during the season, and Chris Berg was not 100%, still recovering from his knee surgery. Imagine what Jim Stack could have done in 1982/83 (or Shon Morris in 1985/86) with a full roster. Wouldn't we see Falk in a different light today? He may have recruited well enough on paper to compete for more than an NIT berth.
2- How did your team perform with your recruits? What did they do while in college?
Collins hasn't passed this test yet, but we won't be able to evaluate last year's class for 4 years. Foster lost practically an entire class to transfer after a really bad Big Ten campaign. Falk's problems I detailed above.
3- What is the legacy of your recruits? So in other words, what happened after they left?
Some of Foster's recruits made it to the NIT, but after that, the program slumped, so they didn't have a long-term impact on the program. Same for Falk's.
Based on this, I'd have to say Coach is recruiting at a high level, but I don't know that he is recruiting better than Falk did. Of course, that was more than 30 years ago.
Last edited:
[/QUOTE]
Based on this, I'd have to say Coach is recruiting at a high level, but I don't know that he is recruiting better than Falk did. Of course, that was more than 30 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Falk had two consecutive top 30 in the country recruiting classes. So, if we're asking the question "who's doing better" that might be an indication that Collins is doing well.
Falk's teams did not have depth. The current roster seems to have pretty good balance and depth. At least through these rose-colored spectacles.
Based on this, I'd have to say Coach is recruiting at a high level, but I don't know that he is recruiting better than Falk did. Of course, that was more than 30 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Falk had two consecutive top 30 in the country recruiting classes. So, if we're asking the question "who's doing better" that might be an indication that Collins is doing well.
Falk's teams did not have depth. The current roster seems to have pretty good balance and depth. At least through these rose-colored spectacles.
Based on this, I'd have to say Coach is recruiting at a high level, but I don't know that he is recruiting better than Falk did. Of course, that was more than 30 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Falk had two consecutive top 30 in the country recruiting classes. So, if we're asking the question "who's doing better" that might be an indication that Collins is doing well.
Falk's teams did not have depth. The current roster seems to have pretty good balance and depth. At least through these rose-colored spectacles.[/QUOTE]
Technically, his classes had depth but his teams did not because the guys he signed suffered major injuries. Whoever heard of four guys having knee surgery in the same season? Brutal.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter if Falk was a better recruiter than Coach is, because the argument was whether or not Coach is the best recruiter in the last 30 years. Falk's great recruiting years were more than 30 years ago.
Falk had two consecutive top 30 in the country recruiting classes. So, if we're asking the question "who's doing better" that might be an indication that Collins is doing well.
Falk's teams did not have depth. The current roster seems to have pretty good balance and depth. At least through these rose-colored spectacles.[/QUOTE]
Technically, his classes had depth but his teams did not because the guys he signed suffered major injuries. Whoever heard of four guys having knee surgery in the same season? Brutal.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter if Falk was a better recruiter than Coach is, because the argument was whether or not Coach is the best recruiter in the last 30 years. Falk's great recruiting years were more than 30 years ago.
When I said 30 years ago, I meant the post-Falk years. Some don't seem to understand that if you establish a base of recruits in Illinois - Law, Lindsey, Ash, Benson and Rapolas and then can recruit nationally in Ohio (Skelly), Mass. (Falzon), Indiana (McIntosh) and Washington (Brown). You are doing a quality job and IMHO as impressive of three consecutive recruiting classes as I can remember. Now if you want to criticize CC for not filling the 2 remaining scholarships by August 17th, you can, but I think that will change and we will be happy with the recruits that commit. And no, I am only a fan, but continue to make things up as is certain posters' style.
To be fair I haven't seen to much critism of Collins only concern and pessimistic worry which I mean could be warranted but I'm not willing to give into it yet. Collins I feel most fans with at least basic basketball knowledge are happy with.
I do agree with bob / shivas / stupor that this year's class could really help the program if it's done right. Our recruiting is at a crossroads that may depend heavily on how this season goes. Let's say we sign nobody this fall. Everything rides on the season. I'm not sure that our team is better than last year. We lose Olah and Demps and all we can bank on is McIntosh. Everybody is in development mode, except for our senior leaders, who are finished products but merely role players.
If we finish in the conference's bottom half, where's the momentum to sign somebody in the spring?
You do not make any sense - but that's ok, neither does wrassler. The thing is that you have gone so far off topic to try to find a winning side, you are no longer remotely relevant.
Original point - months ago, I raised a thread to talk about whether any one was concerned about that lack of activity and verbals compared to prior years at the same time. I was berated by the klan.
Later point - big recruit after big recruit verballed elsewhere and a couple posters agreed the topic of being concerned was relevant and discussion worthy. Klan members continued their standard 'drink the koolaid or you are not worthy rant.'
Your weird point - the roster looks fine, who cares. Huh? The roster is not the conversation point, the topic is the next recruiting class. Every year, a recruiting class. Next year - two open schollies.
Now, different opinions and thoughts about what CCC will do with that class have been expressed. And as time continues to pass, the conversation becomes more relevant and I expect more posters will chime in with their thoughts. Because this is a message board where people share thoughts and discuss, the cheer leading section is over on Central Ave.
But you are on some bizarre rant about members of the team, discussion of classes from decades ago, blind trust, who we have now, some theory that I'm the third anti-Christ and really not a fan - just about anything except - how will the next class be handled. Will we land a stud or two - who? Will we go to Plan C or D and hope to strike gold? Perhaps hold and use on 5th year or regular transfers? Perhaps hold altogether? And the value of these choices in the opinions of the posters - who are also fans.
These are all fair, relevant topics to discuss. While I criticize CCC for his handling of the Vassar situation (my opinion and I'm entitled to have and voice it), I and every person here seemingly agree that CCC has done the best recruiting in memorable history up to the 2017 class. Now, where is it going? It is a fair question to ask and conversation to hold.
So either get off your little soap box and stop attacking me because I see no one taking your ridiculous side (even yesterday has fallen off and va never appeared) or just put me on ignore - but you are wasting good bandwidth wrassler style and this board only needs one wrassler.
I am only Bob. Midvale met me years ago. Turk met my ex wife when he gave me some bball tickets a couple years ago. I think others have met stupor. No idea who shivas is - and only a vague recollection of him posting and that he raised a few uproars. But so has Va, doc, turk, wrassler - so posters aren't afraid to go opposite the flow - I think there is more than one.
So, just me - Bob. Wish I had a clone - I rather be travelling and let the clone work, but no such luck...yet.
I also wanted to respond to your substance - sounds like a real discussion. I think that is one very strong chance. And if it happens, then I think we may still pop the following year, but have a couple poor recruiting classes meaning future regression.
I also think there is an equal chance that two of benson, pardon, RI, law and falzon emerge this year giving us three legitimate weapons. If healthy (please no mac injury for the next two years...), then I think we have the depth to make a little noise in the B1G and get into the NIT. That would re-arm CCC along with the renovations to sell the program and continue getting legitimate talent here.
I'm starting to lean in the direction of skipping frosh recruits if we don't land an A lister and using those two schollies for a 5th year transfer and either a quality transfer or an schollie next year. Seems like we were in the mix for some quality transfers this year, but where the schollie would come from never was answered. Perhaps that played a role.
I don't think I would like to see roll the dice on a C or D list recruit as I think that would signal a regression in recruiting.
Now this is a substantive, positive discussion. I think grad transfers would be much better than taking a 4-year flyer on marginal Big Ten players.
Also, if we make the NIT this year and we're on the clear upswing and rebuilding our arena, we will look more attractive to the next cycle.
Both are thoughts we share. I interpreted the recent story on NUInside with CCC to imply they were planning on swinging for the fences with this small 2017 class and prepared to pass it over if nothing developed. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea with transfer recruiting as a better fall back than C listers.
Grad transfers are sort of C listers unless and even if the fill a need in a particular area (especially if you are dealing with more than one). The big difference is they only occupy the spot for one season and the spot is available again. Definitely not a bad alternative in a year like this one. (a year in which we have an opportunity to break through enhancing our recruiting for next year and when we have more to offer sooner for a potential recruit)
I agree with 5th year guys, but I think middle of the education guys could be at least C+. By and large, you know what you are getting and you are only buying for a couple of years. I think White would be a good get if he didn't count against this coming year. Maybe with this late announcement, he will take a year at JUCO and head our way in 2017. I know, snowball chance in hell....
On the positive side, the number of transfers grows each year - by a bunch. I don't think it is unrealistic to think we may have a shot. Maybe Goodwin or Moore will have a change of heart after a year...
Middle of the education guys have to sit out a year and limit the roster while grad transfers do not. How many years do you get at that point?
NU is still in the running for a top 60 recruit in Savion Flagg. They are in the running for 4 star players in Eastern, Nwora, and 3 star Gaines that we know of. There are others that have offers that we do not know of. So your wild speculation for five year transfer is premature and overlooks all the hard work Collins, Baldwin, Gates and James have down with recruits with offers and is not based on the current situation NU is in. NU is still on its plan A guys even if one of the guys with an offer has a last name of Carmody. So let's play it out. Goodwin was the only real loss and he was swayed by the hiring of his AAU coach and NU was right there before that. How could NU's coaching staff have known that a desperate Coach in old UK player Travis Ford was willing to do whatever is necessary to get a top 50 recruit at St Louis? That means that if Ford fails at StLouis he is not headed back to coach a big conference school. Also, the track record of 6'2" tweeners whose games are based on power is not great in playing in a power conference like the Big 10.
In some theories, freshmen redshirt so same thing. I think one 5 th year and one with two years of eligibility would work out scholarship wise. But only over going to projects or real speculative prospects.
I get your point. And I don't think talking about various pathways will impact NU recruiting at all. But its better than the crickets here.
As for those recruits, i would be excited about any two although I'm less high on Gaines and Nwora. Eastern would be a dream signing that I would just love to see. Him and Mac in a backcourt - that would be special.
But what else do you have to do? Lets talk about worse case. In the real world, and I suspect even in the coaching meetings, worse case is discussed..
So if none of the primary targets commits, what would you like to see? What do you think will happen? Instead of revisiting BC v CCC, or talking about Vassar, or sit dormant, lets talk hoops recruiting. Speculative, fan style. Koolaid not required.
And white did ok for a true frosh in a major ncaa bball conference. We have plenty that have done worse. Wasn't demps undersized? Were coble and shurna tweeners?
1) Collins swings for the fences every year. He recruited many top recruits (eg Haas in year 1 but he wanted to ride the pines his first two seasons and we were a finalist last year to top 10 to Henry Ellenson last year as Wojo signed his brother simply to attract him. Your defeatist worst case scenarios do not reflect the current basketball regime
2) Demps was a tweener but had the lateral quickness to create his shot. Shurna was a small forward who had to guard PFs like Sullinger who outweighed him by 50 lbs because BC did not like to recruit. Goodwin can grab 10 plus boards in high school at 6'2" but in college that won't happen.
3) just read that there are campus visits scheduled for September for 2017 recruits so there should be changes in commitments this fall
4) just read that Bensen has a strong offensive game and Brown can create off the dribble and cause opponents to foul him or pass the ball. Collins in an interview that this is the first player to do so since Drew C. Also, Brown will see time at PG to answer your frequent question of who will be the backup PG.
2) Demps was a tweener but had the lateral quickness to create his shot. Shurna was a small forward who had to guard PFs like Sullinger who outweighed him by 50 lbs because BC did not like to recruit. Goodwin can grab 10 plus boards in high school at 6'2" but in college that won't happen.
3) just read that there are campus visits scheduled for September for 2017 recruits so there should be changes in commitments this fall
4) just read that Bensen has a strong offensive game and Brown can create off the dribble and cause opponents to foul him or pass the ball. Collins in an interview that this is the first player to do so since Drew C. Also, Brown will see time at PG to answer your frequent question of who will be the backup PG.
Last point first. But that also speaks to Ash - which is within the norm but have been touting CCC results pretty hard. Are you saying that was a miss? Regardless, if Brown can offer contributing minutes then great. I see him as more of a demps - SG, needing to learn about distribution. But I don't see him practice.
Doesn't relate to 2017. I hope those visits are the homeruns, not the fallbacks. I have no problem saying CCC has exceeded my expectations with his recruiting. But i can explain it too, in one of many theories. So, now after a few years and no flagrant improvement in results viewed by the general public at large, I'm concerned. ( if an avid fan cannot see your point, why do you think some highly rated high school kids will)
I think we have the horses again. I thought we have had them before until fate set in. I look forward to the next three years. But i plan to be a fan beyond that and with nothing else to discuss, seems like a decent topic.
Your personal bitterness seems like Mike. Why not put me on ignore and save yourself the angst?
Doesn't relate to 2017. I hope those visits are the homeruns, not the fallbacks. I have no problem saying CCC has exceeded my expectations with his recruiting. But i can explain it too, in one of many theories. So, now after a few years and no flagrant improvement in results viewed by the general public at large, I'm concerned. ( if an avid fan cannot see your point, why do you think some highly rated high school kids will)
I think we have the horses again. I thought we have had them before until fate set in. I look forward to the next three years. But i plan to be a fan beyond that and with nothing else to discuss, seems like a decent topic.
Your personal bitterness seems like Mike. Why not put me on ignore and save yourself the angst?
Ik you were questioning the previous poster and probably agree with the next statement that it requires all the years a recruit is at a school to call them a bust or a great player. Also everyone else if you don't agree with the side he's taking argue it without this pettiness. Also I'd recommend not responding to personal bitterness makes you look like the bigger person and riles them up more.
Now a side track Ik it'd be small classes but I personally loved the review on those articles by Lou on Fitz classes and really hope in a few years he does one of Collins classes.
Under most circumstances, with just 13 total scholarships available, the "average" class will be 3 players, a "small" class 2 and a "Large" class 4. The class of 2018 will likely be 4 players, a "large" class with Bmac, Lindsey, Skelly and Vassar using up their eligibility. I'd hate to see NU have to try to recruit 5 quality players that year, the odds of getting that many at once is pretty low (see the incoming class of 2014 for example). So I think NU is beter off signing 2 guys in 2017, irregardless of whether they are A or B or C list, than holding an open scholly and trying to swing for the fences in 2018.
When you win 15 games because of Crawford in Year 1, 15 games in Year 2 when relying on true frosh in McIntosh and Law to lead the team and then win 20 games for the first time in NU history in the regular season with 8 Big 10 wins which has only happened a few times in NU history, I think most reasonable people would say were on a upward trajectory. Also, factor in that the core of NU team is returning and NU lost its most athletic player last injury due to injury, that would also corroborate the theory that NU is on an upward trajectory. But you are more than entitled to push the gloom and doom agenda.
I would definitely call that an erroneous statement. We've outplayed preseason predictions every season...
What are the in-conference win totals/percentages? (I'm asking because I don't remember, and haven't looked.)
NU was not close to the NIT - any postseason is growth.
To me, this class - which isn't over - feels like CCC took bigger swings than in previous years, based on the thought that program momentum is stronger than is perceived on the outside. I think NU is still some tangible proof from getting a big name to commit - Law believed the new guy, Benson and Rap saw that same momentum, but the current commits saw a team that still wasn't playing after conference tourney Thursday.
I'm not a huge fan of grad transfers - they're year-long roster-fillers, not difference makers. Certainly, "let's hope one of the three impact fifth-year transfers that might be on the market joins our program" is not a strategy to build a program long-term. They're fine if the spot's not taken, I guess.
I think they have been trending up but lady years wins was largely due to a cupcake schedule. And no post season. This season is a crap shoot. Could do as well or much worse.
But how long can you pitch recruits about dancing when you can't get into the NIT. I'm concerned that the pitch is losing stream and think the lack of commitments at this point supports that notion. Especially after missing on the ones targeted hard and with so much extra time.
Similar threads
