Nicholson

[hoosboot]

As much as I like Nicholson, I do not see much improvement in his offense thise season.

Having been supportive all along, I have gotten frustrated with several things I've noticed (and I watch closely).

1. He doesn't establish position in the lane as an offensive option. Nearly every Big Ten post player has been taught how to do this. It doesn't look to me that the coaches are even trying to teach him this. He has the size and athleticism to get anywhere he wants to, including the low post, but he never makes a move to establish position and then look for the ball.

2. He doesn't seem to have great instincts as to how to get rebounding position. Our three point attempts tend to carom over his head. He does better on two point attempts, where the rebounds aren't nearly as huge. It doesn't look to me like he is getting a lot of coaching on this either. He doesn't normally make a decisive move to the offensive boards, but still gets some rebounds because of his size and reach. If the coaches can't help him with this, he might have to talk to Barnhizer and Martinelli.

3. I don't remember ever seeing anyone set a screen to free Nicholson up for a lob. Hard to understand why we can't do that. Easiest, most reliable source of scoring we have, other than when Buie can beat his defender off the dribble.

4. He gets his only opportunities on the pick and roll. I think the coaches believe that his entire role is to set screens all over the court to free up "shooters" that are less effective than he is at scoring. Nicholson is a very good screener, but I find it pretty sad that we don't seem to have a clue about passing into the low post. On the other hand, we love to shoot when he is 20 feet from the basket.

Nicholson's hands are fine. He handles the ball a lot and the turnovers are not bad - usually an illegal screen.

Some thoughts on your list:

1) The 5 posting up isn't part of the offense for a lot of teams. Many teams prioritize receiving the ball moving towards the basket rather than with your back to it. Even if Nicholson had shown a knack for it (which he hasn't), I'm not surprised that isn't a part of the NU offense at all.

2) That ability will come as he gains more playing time. That's among the most difficult things to simulate in practice.

3) I would like to see more off-ball screens in the NU offense, but not setting those for Nicholson isn't surprising if you analyze the kind of offense NU does run. The lack of off-ball screens for non-three-point shooters is pretty common in set offenses.

4) I think it's actually an asset that the coaches have used Nicholson in a role this season that plays to one of his strengths. His size and athleticism make him a great option in high pick and roll action. The next step for him is finishing moves off that action other than dunking.

 

[hdhntr1]

As much as I like Nicholson, I do not see much improvement in his offense thise season.

Having been supportive all along, I have gotten frustrated with several things I've noticed (and I watch closely).

1. He doesn't establish position in the lane as an offensive option. Nearly every Big Ten post player has been taught how to do this. It doesn't look to me that the coaches are even trying to teach him this. He has the size and athleticism to get anywhere he wants to, including the low post, but he never makes a move to establish position and then look for the ball.

2. He doesn't seem to have great instincts as to how to get rebounding position. Our three point attempts tend to carom over his head. He does better on two point attempts, where the rebounds aren't nearly as huge. It doesn't look to me like he is getting a lot of coaching on this either. He doesn't normally make a decisive move to the offensive boards, but still gets some rebounds because of his size and reach. If the coaches can't help him with this, he might have to talk to Barnhizer and Martinelli.

3. I don't remember ever seeing anyone set a screen to free Nicholson up for a lob. Hard to understand why we can't do that. Easiest, most reliable source of scoring we have, other than when Buie can beat his defender off the dribble.

4. He gets his only opportunities on the pick and roll. I think the coaches believe that his entire role is to set screens all over the court to free up "shooters" that are less effective than he is at scoring. Nicholson is a very good screener, but I find it pretty sad that we don't seem to have a clue about passing into the low post. On the other hand, we love to shoot when he is 20 feet from the basket.

Nicholson's hands are fine. He handles the ball a lot and the turnovers are not bad - usually an illegal screen.

First, his O has not developed to where he is a primary target, Did you see all those missed layups he has had? He is really not a post up player yet High% on dunks but seems like less than 40% on layups and he really does not have any thing else he is effective at yet. He has no O game outside of about 5 ft, His D is there but the O, not yet.

As far as position for rebounding, have to remember that generally centers take positions to block defenders out so other quicker team mates get the rebounds. While they get some rebounds, generally it is others that are the biggest rebounders . In our case, he blocks out guys so Berry, Barnhizer, Buie, etc are able to get the rebounds.

As far as setting screens for him, that would generally get too many in an area and clog things up. Also since his offensive game is so limited, it is only occasionally you could get him to a position to be successful. He is better as the screener than the one screened for.

As he develops more of an offensive game, I expect things to change but for now, there are reasons he is used the way he is as only an occasional offensive target. While I expect him to get better he is just not there yet

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

First, his O has not developed to where he is a primary target, Did you see all those missed layups he has had? He is really not a post up player yet High% on dunks but seems like less than 40% on layups and he really does not have any thing else he is effective at yet. He has no O game outside of about 5 ft, His D is there but the O, not yet.

As far as position for rebounding, have to remember that generally centers take positions to block defenders out so other quicker team mates get the rebounds. While they get some rebounds, generally it is others that are the biggest rebounders . In our case, he blocks out guys so Berry, Barnhizer, Buie, etc are able to get the rebounds.

As far as setting screens for him, that would generally get too many in an area and clog things up. Also since his offensive game is so limited, it is only occasionally you could get him to a position to be successful. He is better as the screener than the one screened for.

As he develops more of an offensive game, I expect things to change but for now, there are reasons he is used the way he is as only an occasional offensive target. While I expect him to get better he is just not there yet

"all those missed layups" I honestly think this is selective memory or just a bias that a guy his size shouldn't miss layups. Audige misses short shots all the time and people never say "Boo" (pun!).

Nicholson made 2 of his first 11 field goal attempts (the MSU and OSU games). He missed a bunch of tip-in attempts against Ohio State. Those count as missed layups.

Since then, he has converted an impressive 47 of 72 field goal attempts. (65%)
[Verhoeven has made 21 of 31 in about 72% of Nicholson's minutes]

I'm of the philosophy that you should do more of what has worked and do less of what hasn't worked.

We were 8-2 in Big Ten games when Nicholson scored 6 or more points.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Terror...

 

[GatoLouco]

Terror...

If I had to play against him I would stock up on Depends

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

"all those missed layups" I honestly think this is selective memory or just a bias that a guy his size shouldn't miss layups. Audige misses short shots all the time and people never say "Boo" (pun!).

Nicholson made 2 of his first 11 field goal attempts (the MSU and OSU games). He missed a bunch of tip-in attempts against Ohio State. Those count as missed layups.

Since then, he has converted an impressive 47 of 72 field goal attempts. (65%)
[Verhoeven has made 21 of 31 in about 72% of Nicholson's minutes]

I'm of the philosophy that you should do more of what has worked and do less of what hasn't worked.

We were 8-2 in Big Ten games when Nicholson scored 6 or more points.

Are you advocating more offense run through Big Matt?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Are you advocating more offense run through Big Matt?

Honestly just 2-3 intentional efforts to get him a decent look in the low post. Within a step of the hoop. Go from there. Couldn't tell if you were being facetious or actually asking for clarification. (oops)

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Honestly just 2-3 intentional efforts to get him a decent look in the low post. Within a step of the hoop. Go from there. Couldn't tell if you were being facetious or actually asking for clarification. (oops)

I was asking if you thought running some offense through Big Matt would improve the team? Nothing more or less.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I was asking if you thought running some offense through Big Matt would improve the team? Nothing more or less.

Some touches are in order, I believe.
I would not ask him to run the offense (ever) but running some plays thru him or for him would be a new dimension for our offense (if it worked).

 

[hoosboot]

Some touches are in order, I believe.
I would not ask him to run the offense (ever) but running some plays thru him or for him would be a new dimension for our offense (if it worked).

I don't think Matt is at the point in his development where a team specifically runs plays through him. That's different than having him as an option in a play. He's already an option in a few plays, but I haven't seen anything that suggests we should be running back to the basket plays for him this season. I don't think Dereck Lively has plays called for him on Duke either, but he's starting to find ways to have an impact offensively.

 

[NUCat320]

For some reason, no mention of Nicholson in this article about the increasing value of post players for tournament teams.

The Big-Man Revolution Is Coming for March Madness

Purdue’s Zach Edey is expected to make waves at this year’s NCAA tournament, but he’s not the only big guy in a big spot. The stars for plenty of top teams are 6-foot-8 or taller—and this movement has been years, and one notable rule change, in the making.

www.theringer.com

NU should seek out lobs for Nicholson as a focal point on Thursday. He was 5-6 with 5 dunks the last time NU won.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I don't think Matt is at the point in his development where a team specifically runs plays through him. That's different than having him as an option in a play. He's already an option in a few plays, but I haven't seen anything that suggests we should be running back to the basket plays for him this season. I don't think Dereck Lively has plays called for him on Duke either, but he's starting to find ways to have an impact offensively.

It seems to me that Nicholson has done whatever he has been asked to do. He almost never gets the ball passed to him, other than the pick and roll. Who would have thought that he'd be handling the ball so much out by the arc, or as the safety valve when breaking the press?

He only had 16 turnovers in 20 Big Ten games. Maybe a third of those were illegal screens on offense (not mishandling the ball). We do seem to have some problems throwing good passes into the post.

Nicholson's 6 inches taller than any Boise State starter and BSU's bench isn't very good. I'd go inside and try to pick up fouls. Its quite possible that Boise's forwards will back off in order to stay in the game.

Similarly, a frontcourt of Verhoeven/Martinelli/Barnhizer should match up reasonably well with their three 6'7" guys. Nicholson/Beran and 3 guards ought to be successful too. Nicholson/Beran/Barnhizer too.

We have better depth and more options.

 

[hdhntr1]

"all those missed layups" I honestly think this is selective memory or just a bias that a guy his size shouldn't miss layups. Audige misses short shots all the time and people never say "Boo" (pun!).

Nicholson made 2 of his first 11 field goal attempts (the MSU and OSU games). He missed a bunch of tip-in attempts against Ohio State. Those count as missed layups.

Since then, he has converted an impressive 47 of 72 field goal attempts. (65%)
[Verhoeven has made 21 of 31 in about 72% of Nicholson's minutes]

I'm of the philosophy that you should do more of what has worked and do less of what hasn't worked.

We were 8-2 in Big Ten games when Nicholson scored 6 or more points.

In the case of Audige, he has other parts of his offensive game and while lately he has misses midrange shots, layups are not generally his problem. He isn't often being fed layups but instead is driving the ball, creating his own shot to to get to the point he can shoot the layup. (And there has been plenty that has been said about his problems on O). With Nicholson, he has the dunk, layup and nothing else as of yet. He doesn't miss dunks, (well he did miss one the other day) so basically those misses are on his layups (and I don't believe tips even count as shots unless they go in. I know that they are not counted as rebounds unless the tip in is good). In any event, there have been plenty of other misses. He cannot really drive to the basket so have to get him the ball in a position to either dunk or lay the ball in and that is not as easy as you suggest and hard to make a game plan around. You get it to im when you can within the flow of the offense but you don't try to make the game plan around it. Also does not help that he is only 50% from the line

Bottom line, a guy like Edey or Dickerson you make game plans around and they are focal points of the offense and are not in their first year. Nicholson is simply not to that point yet. He is a work in progress and it takes practice time to work that in, something that is harder to do during the season.

 

[hdhntr1]

Are you advocating more offense run through Big Matt?

Sound mor like wanting the focus of the O to be MN

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

In the case of Audige, he has other parts of his offensive game and while lately he has misses midrange shots, layups are not generally his problem. He isn't often being fed layups but instead is driving the ball, creating his own shot to to get to the point he can shoot the layup. (And there has been plenty that has been said about his problems on O). With Nicholson, he has the dunk, layup and nothing else as of yet. He doesn't miss dunks, (well he did miss one the other day) so basically those misses are on his layups (and I don't believe tips even count as shots unless they go in. I know that they are not counted as rebounds unless the tip in is good). In any event, there have been plenty of other misses. He cannot really drive to the basket so have to get him the ball in a position to either dunk or lay the ball in and that is not as easy as you suggest and hard to make a game plan around. You get it to im when you can within the flow of the offense but you don't try to make the game plan around it. Also does not help that he is only 50% from the line

Bottom line, a guy like Edey or Dickerson you make game plans around and they are focal points of the offense and are not in their first year. Nicholson is simply not to that point yet. He is a work in progress and it takes practice time to work that in, something that is harder to do during the season.

I have never said that we should "make a game plan around Nicholson" on offense.
You created a strawman and are now arguing with him..

More touches for Nicholson in scoring situations would have obvious benefits.
Thats what I'm advocating.

He (Nicholson) has been one of our most efficient scorers.

An attempt to tip in a rebound counts as both a field goal attempt and an offensive rebound.

 

[hoosboot]

I have never said that we should "make a game plan around Nicholson" on offense.
You created a strwaman and are now arguing with him..

More touches for Nicholson in scoring situations would have obvious benefits.
Thats what I'm advocating.

He (Nicholson) has been one of our most efficient scorers.

An attempt to tip in a rebound counts as both a field goal attempt and an offensive rebound.

The quibble is that he's only really been efficient in one type of scoring attempt. Trying to lean into that type of scoring attempt is a positive as he's gained more trust from coaches and teammates (both of which are things I think have happened), but there hasn't been much to suggest that dumping the ball to him in a post position is going to be a fruitful part of the offense - particularly at this point in the season.

 

[IGNORE2]

Sound mor like wanting the focus of the O to be MN

I don’t think so. And not sure we need to have a focus. Boo and Chase can be O machines. BB has demonstrated he is worthy to have planned sets.

I would put MN w Berry, Beran and Mart as four guys to have a few sets for. And in a game against small, you might go to that well often. For MN, the play has been pick and roll. Maybe add a simple post - no pick necessary. But teach him where to go - he seems to get too deep the times it has been tried.

 

[IGNORE2]

The quibble is that he's only really been efficient in one type of scoring attempt. Trying to lean into that type of scoring attempt is a positive as he's gained more trust from coaches and teammates (both of which are things I think have happened), but there hasn't been much to suggest that dumping the ball to him in a post position is going to be a fruitful part of the offense - particularly at this point in the season.

I think part of his bunny problem is he ends up under the basket or board once established with the ball. He needs to set shallower and understand that the pass in and the following motion will move him a few feet closer.

 

[IGNORE2]

I think part of his bunny problem is he ends up under the basket or board once established with the ball. He needs to set shallower and understand that the pass in and the following motion will move him a few feet closer.

He posts like I do - but I’m 6’. Tall for pick up but not tall. My posts often end up in a reverse - but I’m agile and can use both hands. He’s tall - not as agile but doesn’t need it and definitely doesn’t need to use the basket to protect the shot from a blocker. He needs to simply start his post a couple more feet out and he will have easier shots and better options.

 

[hdhntr1]

I have never said that we should "make a game plan around Nicholson" on offense.
You created a strawman and are now arguing with him..

More touches for Nicholson in scoring situations would have obvious benefits.
Thats what I'm advocating.

He (Nicholson) has been one of our most efficient scorers.

An attempt to tip in a rebound counts as both a field goal attempt and an offensive rebound.

The reason he is one of the most efficient scorers is that he only gets the ball in high probability situations,. Unfortunately they are not so easy to create. Focus on it and you might get a couple more a game, but it is likely to cost you a bunch in other areas

 

[hdhntr1]

I don’t think so. And not sure we need to have a focus. Boo and Chase can be O machines. BB has demonstrated he is worthy to have planned sets.

I would put MN w Berry, Beran and Mart as four guys to have a few sets for. And in a game against small, you might go to that well often. For MN, the play has been pick and roll. Maybe add a simple post - no pick necessary. But teach him where to go - he seems to get too deep the times it has been tried.

Again, it takes the practice time to do that and really do not have that during the season. I would hope a couple more options could be added during the offseason but really hard during the season.