NIT Bracketology

[NJCat83588]

One site has Va Tech in, but not NU..........

http://www.dratings.com/predictor/bracketology/

I like this one, has NU playing Steve Alford and UCLA:

http://bracketmatrix.com/nit

NU is in the "also considered" bucket in this one:

http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/

I just don't see how you can have only 1 Big 10 team in the NIT. Make you think that Thursday's game between NU and UoM will be for the NIT bid. It is March and NU is playing meaningful games. Thanks, Chris!

 

[Fitz51]

I am happy the boys will have more games this season, and I am sure it is meaningful for them, but the NIT is no real prize.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Well as opposed to the two previous seasons with losing records, a 20-win season and an NIT bid would be a REAL prize to me.

 

[No Chores]

I am happy the boys will have more games this season, and I am sure it is meaningful for them, but the NIT is no real prize.

Maybe the most idiotic post I have ever read. Congratulations on the award!

 

[ToledoCat]

Any Post Season play is great. Keeps the underclassmen competing...Plus would love to see a 21st win... that is the prize. CC is recruiting future players now as recruiting never stops. That would give him something to point too.

 

[Palindrome]

I am happy the boys will have more games this season, and I am sure it is meaningful for them, but the NIT is no real prize.

“No prize” is a kind of amorphous term. I would argue that It DOES represent an “achievement”, one that has quite often eluded Wildcat efforts in the past. Moreover, it also is an “opportunity”; specifically an opportunity to get experience competing against teams we don’t know much about in a “win or go home” scenario. I think that’s valuable for underclassmen especially, a kind of grooming experience for the brighter future.

Another way to look at it is: there will be teams in the NIT that are better quality than a bunch of those who will be competing in the Big Dance. If the Cats play well enough to beat at least a couple of them, and go deep into the bracket, then that indeed can be seen as “a sign of things to come.” So if we were a senior-laden team, and/or if the guys get punched in the mouth in the first NIT round, then it could be argued that it’s kind of worthless. But we are not senior-laden, and we have reason to hope (or as an optimist even expect) we will be able to hold our own.

Go ahead and “curb your enthusiasm” if you wish. I won’t be doing that at all.

 

[Fitz51]

Let's just win the Conference tourney.

 

[TerraCat]

I am happy the boys will have more games this season, and I am sure it is meaningful for them, but the NIT is no real prize.

Not only is it a prize, it is an opportunity. Win the NIT. I know it is a longshot...but keep building, keep fighting...this program is moving up...

 

[willycat]

I am happy the boys will have more games this season, and I am sure it is meaningful for them, but the NIT is no real prize.

Still can't get over it, huh.

 

[phatcat]

I am happy the boys will have more games this season, and I am sure it is meaningful for them, but the NIT is no real prize.

I agree with this, and how the heck did the NIT get so picky that a 20 win B1G team is handwringing about it. Must be all the automatic seeds taking up space. Notwithstanding that (the auto seeds), does this mean, if we didn't get in, a 20 win B1G team is 101st best in the country?

 

[Fitz51]

Still can't get over it, huh.

Not sure I understand.

 

[phatcat]

Maybe the most idiotic post I have ever read. Congratulations on the award!

disagree. It is essentially the same as if the football team had won 6 games this year and returned to a bowl after two years on the sidelines.

I'm glad they don't suck, and I understand that the team had plateaued and declined when CC joined, but I'm puzzled at the jubilation over being a bubble for the Not Invited Tournament. 68 teams make the tournament every year, and, barring a run of 2-3 more wins in the BTT, we will again NOT be one of those teams.

 

[Bradleywildcatsfan]

Maybe the most idiotic post I have ever read. Congratulations on the award!

To Fitz51, I beg to differ. The NIT is a great tournament, and the true "best of the rest" tournament out there. Considering that almost half the participants can make a case for being in the Big Dance, while many other participants are legitimate champions of their conferences. Compared to the other tournaments that have popped up recently, the NIT has only gotten better with age especially since the NCAA took over the selection criteria. Any team has to earn their way there, be it by winning their conference regular season, or winning 20+ games against a decent schedule. It is not THE goal for Northwestern obviously, and the best of the best teams are obviously playing in the Big Dance, but the NIT is no slouch either, and there is still some prestige for winning this tournament, unlike the new ones on the block. Obviously we all hope that this is a stepping stone to bigger and better things for Northwestern, but I will not ever call the NIT "no real prize".

And No Chores, I agree with you as I believe this is maybe one of the most idiotic posts I have read as well.

 

[thewildcat2011]

Needed to win 8 in the B1G and make the NIT to show progress. 1 out of 2 right now, but I think a win against Michigan and some good luck elsewhere will make it 2 for 2.

 

[Bradleywildcatsfan]

disagree. It is essentially the same as if the football team had won 6 games this year and returned to a bowl after two years on the sidelines.

I'm glad they don't suck, and I understand that the team had plateaued and declined when CC joined, but I'm puzzled at the jubilation over being a bubble for the Not Invited Tournament. 68 teams make the tournament every year, and, barring a run of 2-3 more wins in the BTT, we will again NOT be one of those teams.

Couldn't disagree with you more phatcat. The NIT is the equivalent of football teams who win 7, 8, or sometimes even 9 games depending on the strength of schedule. The CBI and the Vegas tournament are equivalent to a football team winning 5 to 7 games, and not even close to being the "best of the rest" tournament as I defined the NIT (see my above post).

More perplexing however seems to be your total dissing of what has turned out to be one of the more encouraging seasons we have seen here in awhile. Did you REALLY think Northwestern had a chance to make the Big Dance this year? I think they would have been at least in the discussion had they beaten Maryland at their place, Ohio St. on the road, and Penn St. at home. But still the OOC schedule probably would have kept them out anyway. That said though, this era of impatience by some people can potentially be damaging towards a proper rebuilding of this program to bigger and better things.

I personally am appalled by what I have seen in the NBA this year with two great coaches being fired because they "only" won two thirds of their games! And I think firing Collins after three years (not saying anyone is calling for his firing, but obviously people like you don't think he has rebuilt things fast enough for your liking), or firing any coach every year or two does not allow for a proper foundation to be built when it comes to taking a program to the next level. I'm sorry, but if Coach K was fired after a mediocre third season, Duke would not be anywhere the program it is today, and Coach K would be doing TV commentary right now. And firing Dana Altman after year 4 at Creighton would not have led to the six or so consecutive trips to the NCAA Tournament at Creighton, and his big time jump to Oregon, who has consistently been one of the best programs in the Pac 12 the last several years under his watch.

Sorry, I still stand by my philosophy that every new coach is entitled to five years to rebuild a program. To think Tom Crean almost got canned a year or two ago where Indiana fans selectively forgot just how messed up the program became under the previous coach! Nope, I think truly is a virtue when it comes to rebuilding a program.

 

[Bradleywildcatsfan]

Needed to win 8 in the B1G and make the NIT to show progress. 1 out of 2 right now, but I think a win against Michigan and some good luck elsewhere will make it 2 for 2.

Not sure they have to beat Michigan to make the NIT, but I agree it would help quite a bit. Michigan is certainly beatable, and that would put us ahead of them in the NIT pecking order. That said, if they lose to Michigan, I hope they make the Big Dance as that will free up a spot in the Big Ten pecking order for an NIT representative or two. Some pundits still have Michigan in the NCAA Tournament, but just barely, while some have them just out. Either way, this will be one interesting and long week!

 

[Fitz51]

Did you REALLY think Northwestern had a chance to make the Big Dance this year?

No, but I also don't understand all the pants creaming over any tournament that isn't the Big Dance. Again, I love that they will have more games. I will be watching them and rooting for them. But the fans of other major conference teams of the world generally aren't getting thrilled over the NIT. I know, I know. It's progress. We are NU.

 

[willycat]

No, but I also don't understand all the pants creaming over any tournament that isn't the Big Dance. Again, I love that they will have more games. I will be watching them and rooting for them. But the fans of other major conference teams of the world generally aren't getting thrilled over the NIT. I know, I know. It's progress. We are NU.

I'm thinking that every kid playing in the NIT is thrilled with the prospect of getting to play a Championship Game at Madison Square Garden.

 

[Fitz51]

I'm thinking that every kid playing in the NIT is thrilled with the prospect of getting to play a Championship Game at Madison Square Garden.

Yes, and I have said several times it's great for the players.

 

[Bradleywildcatsfan]

No, but I also don't understand all the pants creaming over any tournament that isn't the Big Dance. Again, I love that they will have more games. I will be watching them and rooting for them. But the fans of other major conference teams of the world generally aren't getting thrilled over the NIT. I know, I know. It's progress. We are NU.

It's very simple really. People are making a big deal out of this because we are an up and coming team rebuilding from scratch, and a team who has never made the NCAA Tournament. And it's a very solid tournament too.

Now, if this were year 5 or 6 of the Collins era, then I would of course agree with you. But right now, this is encouraging, and a great way for this young team to gain experience against solid competition, in a lose and go home type of tournament.

 

[phatcat]

Couldn't disagree with you more phatcat. The NIT is the equivalent of football teams who win 7, 8, or sometimes even 9 games depending on the strength of schedule. The CBI and the Vegas tournament are equivalent to a football team winning 5 to 7 games, and not even close to being the "best of the rest" tournament as I defined the NIT (see my above post).

More perplexing however seems to be your total dissing of what has turned out to be one of the more encouraging seasons we have seen here in awhile. Did you REALLY think Northwestern had a chance to make the Big Dance this year? I think they would have been at least in the discussion had they beaten Maryland at their place, Ohio St. on the road, and Penn St. at home. But still the OOC schedule probably would have kept them out anyway. That said though, this era of impatience by some people can potentially be damaging towards a proper rebuilding of this program to bigger and better things.

I personally am appalled by what I have seen in the NBA this year with two great coaches being fired because they "only" won two thirds of their games! And I think firing Collins after three years (not saying anyone is calling for his firing, but obviously people like you don't think he has rebuilt things fast enough for your liking), or firing any coach every year or two does not allow for a proper foundation to be built when it comes to taking a program to the next level. I'm sorry, but if Coach K was fired after a mediocre third season, Duke would not be anywhere the program it is today, and Coach K would be doing TV commentary right now. And firing Dana Altman after year 4 at Creighton would not have led to the six or so consecutive trips to the NCAA Tournament at Creighton, and his big time jump to Oregon, who has consistently been one of the best programs in the Pac 12 the last several years under his watch.

Sorry, I still stand by my philosophy that every new coach is entitled to five years to rebuild a program. To think Tom Crean almost got canned a year or two ago where Indiana fans selectively forgot just how messed up the program became under the previous coach! Nope, I think truly is a virtue when it comes to rebuilding a program.

First, just to be clear, I have absolutely no idea what's going on in the NBA, because I simply don't care. I know the Warriors have won a bunch of games, and they have a guy that played against us in the all-important NIT a few years ago. You know, back when we were in it several times? I don't remember you or anyone else tooting the horn about the NIT then, is it "better" now, like how the Peach Bowl has been elevated? If so, why? There are still the same # of teams vying for the NCAA and NIT

My observations as an admittedly casual fan are that Carmody developed a decent program that plateaued and then declined. I agree we needed to move on. CC has this "pedigree" that has everyone excited and he is recruiting high level recruits. Yet, despite this positive wave, he is winning basically because of two Carmody guys - Olah and Demps, and only at a level that Carmody was during his better few years. I'm not yet convinced that CC's high level recruits will take us to the next level. Example: Justin Jackson was a star as a Freshman, in a far more physically demanding sport. Why aren't Pardon and Falzon playing at that level? Do I need to show you a long list of "one and done" players at other programs that made a difference immediately? Don't talk to me about injuries, we had similar ones with guys like Coble that, had they not occurred, were more likely to land us in the tourney than if, say, Law had played this year. And if they do get in next year or the year after, is it that big a deal? It will be to us, as NU people, but it will be otherwise a historical footnote - "last large conference team to make the tourney ever". I certainly don't expect success at a level of the 1995 March to the Rose Bowl from this program

CC is at the end of his third year, and the program is essentially at the same level at BC's just before the decline. Do I think we need BC back? Heck no. Do I think CC is given a pass, and is being lauded for mediocrity. Heck yes!

The reason that I am an 'admittedly casual' fan is that I just can no longer stand the aggravation of getting my hopes up by Cats basketball only to have them stomped in hilarious fashion. I moved to Maryland a couple of years ago and went to the MD game last season with my son. When we got way ahead, he was excited but I remained calm. I KNEW they would blow it. I've come to expect it several times a year.

Perhaps I will enjoy less the eventual success (if it comes in my lifetime), but in the meantime, I've got more important things going on in my life than to get worked up over whether we get into the Not Invited Tournament.

 

[Sec.112]

... The reason that I am an 'admittedly casual' fan is that I just can no longer stand the aggravation of getting my hopes up by Cats basketball only to have them stomped in hilarious fashion ...

Sorry, boys. This statement makes Phatcat one of the smarter people out here.

 

[willycat]

First, just to be clear, I have absolutely no idea what's going on in the NBA, because I simply don't care. I know the Warriors have won a bunch of games, and they have a guy that played against us in the all-important NIT a few years ago. You know, back when we were in it several times? I don't remember you or anyone else tooting the horn about the NIT then, is it "better" now, like how the Peach Bowl has been elevated? If so, why? There are still the same # of teams vying for the NCAA and NIT

My observations as an admittedly casual fan are that Carmody developed a decent program that plateaued and then declined. I agree we needed to move on. CC has this "pedigree" that has everyone excited and he is recruiting high level recruits. Yet, despite this positive wave, he is winning basically because of two Carmody guys - Olah and Demps, and only at a level that Carmody was during his better few years. I'm not yet convinced that CC's high level recruits will take us to the next level. Example: Justin Jackson was a star as a Freshman, in a far more physically demanding sport. Why aren't Pardon and Falzon playing at that level? Do I need to show you a long list of "one and done" players at other programs that made a difference immediately? Don't talk to me about injuries, we had similar ones with guys like Coble that, had they not occurred, were more likely to land us in the tourney than if, say, Law had played this year. And if they do get in next year or the year after, is it that big a deal? It will be to us, as NU people, but it will be otherwise a historical footnote - "last large conference team to make the tourney ever". I certainly don't expect success at a level of the 1995 March to the Rose Bowl from this program

CC is at the end of his third year, and the program is essentially at the same level at BC's just before the decline. Do I think we need BC back? Heck no. Do I think CC is given a pass, and is being lauded for mediocrity. Heck yes!

The reason that I am an 'admittedly casual' fan is that I just can no longer stand the aggravation of getting my hopes up by Cats basketball only to have them stomped in hilarious fashion. I moved to Maryland a couple of years ago and went to the MD game last season with my son. When we got way ahead, he was excited but I remained calm. I KNEW they would blow it. I've come to expect it several times a year.

Perhaps I will enjoy less the eventual success (if it comes in my lifetime), but in the meantime, I've got more important things going on in my life than to get worked up over whether we get into the Not Invited Tournament.

Happy now? Now go and do the laundry and take out the trash. Enjoy yourself.

 

[clarificationcat]

First, just to be clear, I have absolutely no idea what's going on in the NBA, because I simply don't care. I know the Warriors have won a bunch of games, and they have a guy that played against us in the all-important NIT a few years ago. You know, back when we were in it several times? I don't remember you or anyone else tooting the horn about the NIT then, is it "better" now, like how the Peach Bowl has been elevated? If so, why? There are still the same # of teams vying for the NCAA and NIT

My observations as an admittedly casual fan are that Carmody developed a decent program that plateaued and then declined. I agree we needed to move on. CC has this "pedigree" that has everyone excited and he is recruiting high level recruits. Yet, despite this positive wave, he is winning basically because of two Carmody guys - Olah and Demps, and only at a level that Carmody was during his better few years. I'm not yet convinced that CC's high level recruits will take us to the next level. Example: Justin Jackson was a star as a Freshman, in a far more physically demanding sport. Why aren't Pardon and Falzon playing at that level? Do I need to show you a long list of "one and done" players at other programs that made a difference immediately? Don't talk to me about injuries, we had similar ones with guys like Coble that, had they not occurred, were more likely to land us in the tourney than if, say, Law had played this year. And if they do get in next year or the year after, is it that big a deal? It will be to us, as NU people, but it will be otherwise a historical footnote - "last large conference team to make the tourney ever". I certainly don't expect success at a level of the 1995 March to the Rose Bowl from this program

CC is at the end of his third year, and the program is essentially at the same level at BC's just before the decline. Do I think we need BC back? Heck no. Do I think CC is given a pass, and is being lauded for mediocrity. Heck yes!

The reason that I am an 'admittedly casual' fan is that I just can no longer stand the aggravation of getting my hopes up by Cats basketball only to have them stomped in hilarious fashion. I moved to Maryland a couple of years ago and went to the MD game last season with my son. When we got way ahead, he was excited but I remained calm. I KNEW they would blow it. I've come to expect it several times a year.

Perhaps I will enjoy less the eventual success (if it comes in my lifetime), but in the meantime, I've got more important things going on in my life than to get worked up over whether we get into the Not Invited Tournament.

A few thoughts. First, I am not going to argue with you about not getting emotionally invested in the program. I get that.

If you think NU is winning, though, basically because of Olah and Demps, you aren't following the games very closely. McIntosh hasn't been shooting well lately but he is the most important player on the team. Almost everything runs through him. We often can't get a shot off when he is out of the game. Olah and Demps have played well recently and certainly were primarily responsible for the win against Nebraska, but Olah was hurt and Demps played very poorly for the first half of the season. I am guessing we beat Maryland this year if they don't shoot a combined 3 for 19 in the game. And Demps was 3 for 10 in the win against Wisconsin and Olah didn't play. And Pardon was primarily responsible for the Nebraska win.

And as for recruiting, I agree that Collins hasn't landed a star yet. In his last few years, Carmody was pretty good at landing a few really good players. Shurna was better than anyone on the roster now, although he was not a star his first couple of years either. What Collins has done, though, is build depth and that should pay off in the next couple of years. Skelly, Lindsey, Taphorn and Pardon are coming off the bench. They have all contributed in meaningful ways this year. In prior years, we didn't always have 5 players that should have been getting minutes.

And it's not that easy landing an instant star in basketball at Northwestern. Basketball players are much easier to project than football players and there are lot more winning programs competing for the top players. There are probably 50 plus basketball programs that I would consider to be elite or close to elite programs. How many freshmen have been stars this year? How many of those kids could get into NU and how many are going to choose a program that has never made the NCAA tournament, has the worst facilities in the conference and the smallest fan base. I am guessing that because of his size and speed, a lot of colleges didn't think Jackson would be a star. He didn't get offers from Alabama, USC, Notre Dame, etc. And Fitz recruited him off of a bowl win and a lot of positive press.

I don't think Collins is the next John Wooden or Coach K, although it took them time to build their programs as well. But he has done a good job of recruiting given all of the hurdles, seems to be a pretty good x's and o's coach with a good staff (based on my limited knowledge) and is a great face for the program. You can remain pessimistic but I think that, barring significant injuries, we should make the NCAA tournament in the 2017-2018 season. McIntosh, Law, Lindsey and Skelly will be seniors. Pardon and Falzon will be juniors and next year's class will have a year under their belt. We will likely also have a freshmen or two that will contribute. If he does make the tournament in his 5th year, I think we can conclude that Collins was a great hire.

 

[thewildcat2011]

A few thoughts. First, I am not going to argue with you about not getting emotionally invested in the program. I get that.

If you think NU is winning, though, basically because of Olah and Demps, you aren't following the games very closely. McIntosh hasn't been shooting well lately but he is the most important player on the team. Almost everything runs through him. We often can't get a shot off when he is out of the game. Olah and Demps have played well recently and certainly were primarily responsible for the win against Nebraska, but Olah was hurt and Demps played very poorly for the first half of the season. I am guessing we beat Maryland this year if they don't shoot a combined 3 for 19 in the game. And Demps was 3 for 10 in the win against Wisconsin and Olah didn't play. And Pardon was primarily responsible for the Nebraska win.

And as for recruiting, I agree that Collins hasn't landed a star yet. In his last few years, Carmody was pretty good at landing a few really good players. Shurna was better than anyone on the roster now, although he was not a star his first couple of years either. What Collins has done, though, is build depth and that should pay off in the next couple of years. Skelly, Lindsey, Taphorn and Pardon are coming off the bench. They have all contributed in meaningful ways this year. In prior years, we didn't always have 5 players that should have been getting minutes.

And it's not that easy landing an instant star in basketball at Northwestern. Basketball players are much easier to project than football players and there are lot more winning programs competing for the top players. There are probably 50 plus basketball programs that I would consider to be elite or close to elite programs. How many freshmen have been stars this year? How many of those kids could get into NU and how many are going to choose a program that has never made the NCAA tournament, has the worst facilities in the conference and the smallest fan base. I am guessing that because of his size and speed, a lot of colleges didn't think Jackson would be a star. He didn't get offers from Alabama, USC, Notre Dame, etc. And Fitz recruited him off of a bowl win and a lot of positive press.

I don't think Collins is the next John Wooden or Coach K, although it took them time to build their programs as well. But he has done a good job of recruiting given all of the hurdles, seems to be a pretty good x's and o's coach with a good staff (based on my limited knowledge) and is a great face for the program. You can remain pessimistic but I think that, barring significant injuries, we should make the NCAA tournament in the 2017-2018 season. McIntosh, Law, Lindsey and Skelly will be seniors. Pardon and Falzon will be juniors and next year's class will have a year under their belt. We will likely also have a freshmen or two that will contribute. If he does make the tournament in his 5th year, I think we can conclude that Collins was a great hire.

Amen.

Slight correction in that we will have Law for three years after this, so he'll be a redshirt junior in 2017-2018.

I am stupidly optimistic that we will be on the bubble next year. I think losing Law was bigger than most of us realize. I feel like the only reason we aren't talking more about it is because of the aforementioned depth that Collins has built, but I really do think he would have elevated us to a couple of more wins.

 

[NJCat]

I think losing Law was bigger than most of us realize. I feel like the only reason we aren't talking more about it is because of the aforementioned depth that Collins has built, but I really do think he would have elevated us to a couple of more wins.

Of the 11 NU losses to date, I don't think Vic makes a difference in: UNC, Iowa, MD #1, MSU, PU or IU. But with him, I don't think it is unreasonable that NU might have won one of the OSU games, avoided a loss against PSU, maybe beaten Michigan, and perhaps upset @MD. Win even half of those and NU is on the bubble for the NCAA.

 

[Bradleywildcatsfan]

And Wagner loses tonight! Another NIT spot stolen.

 

[olshin]

So ... Vegas ... late March ... hmmmmm
I'd say it's pretty likely at this point we need to beat Michigan for an NIT shot. Do we need to beat Indy too?

 

[Bradleywildcatsfan]

First, just to be clear, I have absolutely no idea what's going on in the NBA, because I simply don't care. I know the Warriors have won a bunch of games, and they have a guy that played against us in the all-important NIT a few years ago. You know, back when we were in it several times? I don't remember you or anyone else tooting the horn about the NIT then, is it "better" now, like how the Peach Bowl has been elevated? If so, why? There are still the same # of teams vying for the NCAA and NIT

My observations as an admittedly casual fan are that Carmody developed a decent program that plateaued and then declined. I agree we needed to move on. CC has this "pedigree" that has everyone excited and he is recruiting high level recruits. Yet, despite this positive wave, he is winning basically because of two Carmody guys - Olah and Demps, and only at a level that Carmody was during his better few years. I'm not yet convinced that CC's high level recruits will take us to the next level. Example: Justin Jackson was a star as a Freshman, in a far more physically demanding sport. Why aren't Pardon and Falzon playing at that level? Do I need to show you a long list of "one and done" players at other programs that made a difference immediately? Don't talk to me about injuries, we had similar ones with guys like Coble that, had they not occurred, were more likely to land us in the tourney than if, say, Law had played this year. And if they do get in next year or the year after, is it that big a deal? It will be to us, as NU people, but it will be otherwise a historical footnote - "last large conference team to make the tourney ever". I certainly don't expect success at a level of the 1995 March to the Rose Bowl from this program

CC is at the end of his third year, and the program is essentially at the same level at BC's just before the decline. Do I think we need BC back? Heck no. Do I think CC is given a pass, and is being lauded for mediocrity. Heck yes!

The reason that I am an 'admittedly casual' fan is that I just can no longer stand the aggravation of getting my hopes up by Cats basketball only to have them stomped in hilarious fashion. I moved to Maryland a couple of years ago and went to the MD game last season with my son. When we got way ahead, he was excited but I remained calm. I KNEW they would blow it. I've come to expect it several times a year.

Perhaps I will enjoy less the eventual success (if it comes in my lifetime), but in the meantime, I've got more important things going on in my life than to get worked up over whether we get into the Not Invited Tournament.

Well phatcat, unlike others here, at least you admitted why you don't think the NIT is a big deal. You are not sold on Chris Collins. To that I will repeat that every new coach is entitled to the same amount of time to rebuild the program. I give every coach five years to do this. BC got more time because there was no where to go but up. However, he set the bar a bit higher, and now Chris Collins with his emphasis on more athletic recruits sets the bar even higher.

I hear where you are coming from but I don't care if the last ten coaches could not get the job done, and we wasted half of our lives watching futility. That's on them, not on Collins. Again, he is entitled to a full five years to get to that ultimate goal in spite of what happened before. And unless he digresses, the five years should be served out in full. Right now his teams have progressively gotten better in his three years here, and because of that, he will get his fourth. I expect no less then the NIT again next year. The reason why the NCAA Tournament may still be a bit out of reach next year is because he still has a relatively young team coming back, but one that should have more stars in the making. By the following season (2017-2018) I fully expect that this team will have reached the Big Dance at least once by then. Heck, hopefully that will be the second time, but again, next year may be still on the bubble.

I read most of your excuses as to why this team did not make the Big Dance this year, and I don't buy any of them. Again, as someone eluded to above, I don't what team you are watching. Pardon and Falzon have shown a lot of flashes of greatness this year. They are still young though, but both should be a lot more consistent next year. This is not Kentucky and Duke. We do not have 5 star McDonald's all Americans who can contribute right away. There is a learning curb, even for higher level recruits. What counts is what this team can do when most of this current team will be seniors in two years. And again, as a program who has never been to the NCAA Tournament before, it will take some time and patience under Collins to finally get over the hump. But three years have taken place now, so it won't be much more time in my opinion before Northwestern has the opportunity to finally get that elusive NCAA Tournament invite. If it's not done within the next two seasons, then I'm sure the administration will reevaluate Collins and the program.

 

[phatcat]

Well phatcat, unlike others here, at least you admitted why you don't think the NIT is a big deal. You are not sold on Chris Collins. To that I will repeat that every new coach is entitled to the same amount of time to rebuild the program. I give every coach five years to do this. BC got more time because there was no where to go but up. However, he set the bar a bit higher, and now Chris Collins with his emphasis on more athletic recruits sets the bar even higher.

I hear where you are coming from but I don't care if the last ten coaches could not get the job done, and we wasted half of our lives watching futility. That's on them, not on Collins. Again, he is entitled to a full five years to get to that ultimate goal in spite of what happened before. And unless he digresses, the five years should be served out in full. Right now his teams have progressively gotten better in his three years here, and because of that, he will get his fourth. I expect no less then the NIT again next year. The reason why the NCAA Tournament may still be a bit out of reach next year is because he still has a relatively young team coming back, but one that should have more stars in the making. By the following season (2017-2018) I fully expect that this team will have reached the Big Dance at least once by then. Heck, hopefully that will be the second time, but again, next year may be still on the bubble.

I read most of your excuses as to why this team did not make the Big Dance this year, and I don't buy any of them. Again, as someone eluded to above, I don't what team you are watching. Pardon and Falzon have shown a lot of flashes of greatness this year. They are still young though, but both should be a lot more consistent next year. This is not Kentucky and Duke. We do not have 5 star McDonald's all Americans who can contribute right away. There is a learning curb, even for higher level recruits. What counts is what this team can do when most of this current team will be seniors in two years. And again, as a program who has never been to the NCAA Tournament before, it will take some time and patience under Collins to finally get over the hump. But three years have taken place now, so it won't be much more time in my opinion before Northwestern has the opportunity to finally get that elusive NCAA Tournament invite. If it's not done within the next two seasons, then I'm sure the administration will reevaluate Collins and the program.

I don't advocate getting rid of Collins and I am ok with your arbitrary 5 year plan. I just don't understand why people are foaming at the mouth with excitement that we are an NIT 'bubble' team and that Collins has made such huge progress, when we were a missed layup against Minnesota a few years ago from being an NCAA bubble team.

Also I don't know what you mean about 'excuses we didn't make the ncaa this year'. I had no illusions that this team would make it this year, nor am I any more surprised or disappointed than any other year. I repeat - my main point is that I don't understand why people are throwing roses at Collins for being an NIT bubble team (I AM NOT ADVOCATING FIRING HIM!!!) while those same folks threw rocks at BC for making only the NIT (I AM NOT ADVOCATING REHIRING HIM!!!)

Capisce?

 

[NUCat320]

There's no denying that an NIT invite would mark progress, but that doesn't change the fact that, if NU does get that bid, this fan base might be the only fan base (certainly, one of less than ten) that's actually happy to be there.

I'm still assuming NU will win four games in four days.

 

[DaCat]

People need to take a step back and look at the big picture. The important thing is seeing the progress that Collins is making in his 3rd season as head coach. Looking at only his Big 10 record, year one 6-12, year two 6-12, year three 8-10 with possible NIT. Overall records: 14-19, 15-17, and 20-11 (and counting). When Carmody left NU the team was on a down cycle. Collins is bringing the program back to NIT level and then beyond to the NCAA. Is anyone out there not confident that Collins has this team in the NCAA in the next 1-3 years?

 

[Styre]

Is anyone out there not confident that Collins has this team in the NCAA in the next 1-3 years?

I mean I think he has a good shot but I don't see it as a fait accompli.

 

[NJCat]

When Carmody left NU the team was on a down cycle.

Huh?

The last 5 seasons under Carmody were: 17-41 20-14, 20-14, 19-14 and 13-19. I'd hardly call the two most successful seasons in NU history to that point a "down cycle". The 13-19 season included a full season suspension to one of the best players (Cobb) and 2 key injuries (Crawford for 2/3 of the season and Swopshire with 8 games left). Those were the best 4 consecutive seasons in modern NU basketball history.

 

[Sec.112]

... I just don't understand why people are foaming at the mouth with excitement that we are an NIT 'bubble' team ...

You're now the second person whose gone off on some tangent that people are giddy with excitement over an NIT bubble team. Can you show me the throngs of posters who are "foaming at the mouth" or jumping up and down over the NIT?

It's a point of interest. It's a mark of progress. It's something to be happy about within reason. It's a good start. But I think you need to reconsider your perception if you really think there's a group of any measurement out here (or much of anywhere) who are beating their chest over an NIT bubble with complete satisfaction.

 

[NJCat]

You're now the second person whose gone off on some tangent that people are giddy with excitement over an NIT bubble team. Can you show me the throngs of posters who are "foaming at the mouth" or jumping up and down over the NIT?

It's a point of interest. It's a mark of progress. It's something to be happy about within reason. It's a good start. But I think you need to reconsider your perception if you really think there's a group of any measurement out here (or much of anywhere) who are beating their chest over an NIT bubble with complete satisfaction.

Amen. Would be fun to watch the Cats play in the NIT but no one that I have read is going gonzo about it.

 

[Sec.112]

... Is anyone out there not confident that Collins has this team in the NCAA in the next 1-3 years?

I'm completely unsure. You need consistency from Falzon, Lindsey and Pardon.

As it stands right now, your starting 2-guard is an unheralded freshman.

And everybody here talks about Law as if he's a finished product. If he's healthy, he has work to do to round into "the best player on the team."

Simple question: if you're an opposing coach, why wouldn't you continue to double-team BMac as most B10 teams did in the second half of the season. Who's going to burn you?

Yes, I assume a couple of these guys will improve. Hopefully, the freshmen will add to the mix. However, there's way too many "ifs" and not enough solid dependability to be "confident" that this is a done deal.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Huh?

The last 5 seasons under Carmody were: 17-41 20-14, 20-14, 19-14 and 13-19. I'd hardly call the two most successful seasons in NU history to that point a "down cycle". The 13-19 season included a full season suspension to one of the best players (Cobb) and 2 key injuries (Crawford for 2/3 of the season and Swopshire with 8 games left). Those were the best 4 consecutive seasons in modern NU basketball history.

Ditto, NJ. The circumstances surrounding the 2012-13 season seemed to faded in my minds many around here. That team was actually 4-6 in BIG play through 10 games and was right there with Ohio State and Michigan State even after total decimation (Swop's season ending and Olah's multiple game injuries) hit the roster.

I can buy the "plateau" argument, I can't buy the "down cycle" argument.

SIDE NOTE: After thinking about 2012-12 squad, I can help but remember how much I enjoyed watching Swop play. It would have been fantastic to have him in Evanston for a full 4 years. I'd love to see Collins land a grad transfer that could make the same impact that Jared did

 

[NUCat320]

Ditto, NJ. The circumstances surrounding the 2012-13 season seemed to faded in my minds many around here. That team was actually 4-6 in BIG play through 10 games and was right there with Ohio State and Michigan State even after total decimation (Swop's season ending and Olah's multiple game injuries) hit the roster.

I can buy the "plateau" argument, I can't buy the "down cycle" argument.

I think that there was 'close but no cigar' fatigue from recruits and that the program was headed to a down cycle. I think Carmody was let go at the perfect time.

The next Juice or Johnny Cash or Big Daddy Drew wasn't walking through that door. Taphorn, who can't get on the court, was. Sina, who seems to have had Craig Moore potential, but not star potential, was.

One thing to note: the two-year contract certainly contributed to the lack of recruiting momentum. That decision stands as Dr. Jim's worst at NU. See what Josh Whitman did about a two year deal at Illinois?

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

The circumstances surrounding the 2012-13 season seemed to faded in my minds many around here. That team was actually 4-6 in BIG play through 10 games and was right there with Ohio State and Michigan State even after total decimation (Swop's season ending and Olah's multiple game injuries) hit the roster.

I don't think that really means much considering the following season we were 5-5 and tied for 4th in the conference.

I can buy the "plateau" argument, I can't buy the "down cycle" argument.

Looking at the quality AND number of recruits coming in, hard not to call that a "down cycle".