You may be right about where the program was headed. But to say that those teams were in any way "down" does a disservice to the players, who had the most successful stretch of years in the modern era.
NIT Bracketology
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You may be right about where the program was headed. But to say that those teams were in any way "down" does a disservice to the players, who had the most successful stretch of years in the modern era.
Your issue is with DaCat, NJ, not with me.
Now you go back to your Fitz-themed rec room with the Fitz trolls and the Fitz CelebriDuck and the Fitz nutcracker and the 'Go Cats' doorbell and the bag of air that you think may have once been breathed by Fitz.
Add to that list the fact that we lost Lumpkin (who was expected to contribute as a freshman) for the season to mono and then a hand injury. For what it's worth, even after losing so many players, the 2012-13 team still managed 5 wins over RPI Top 100 teams, which is 2.5x as many as year's squad (so far). But hopefully this season continues beyond the Michigan game for a couple weeks and we add a lot more big victories.
As much as I liked Bill Carmody, given the circumstances, I think that the change was made at a good time. Collins started with a decent foundation and is building the program with a strong image/attitude and solid recruiting. I hope that we can surprise some people and break through next season, but I fully expect that we are going to be a borderline top 25 team in two seasons.
Go 'Cats!
Demps and Olah turned out pretty well.........Sina would have been OK, and Abrahamson has shown he can play at Drake. Typical Carmody recruiting classes, one decent player per year and the rest below average. Plateau more accurate than "down cycle"
For as bad a recruiter as Carmody was for post players, I doubt I'm wrong in saying two of his last post recruits were even worse than normal. One gets less than 10mpg in the NAIA, and one didn't even keep playing basketball after he left the team. That is a "down cycle" if there has ever been one...
Olah developed his post skills under Collins...you can't deny that.
No question. But the raw material was there to be developed. I doubt Collins would have been able to develop the other young man you cite.
I totally agree...which is why recruiting was definitely a downslide at that point. In that area alone, I think a change HAD to be made. You can't get by with a Sina, Demps, and Abrahamson and then bunch of fillers.
I would share your confidence if we had better reason to believe that our future guard play will be NCAA tourney quality. The only true guards on next year's roster will be B-Mac, Lindsey, Ash and Brown. Can Lindsey and Brown get the job done at the 2 guard? Will Ash give B-Mac the rest he needs? Is there a 5th year guard out there that could really make a difference? All the other pieces are coming together nicely for an NCAA run in the next couple of years. But our pipeline of guards needed to compliment B-Mac concerns me. We may have to score big with a couple of great guards in the 2017 class ... at least one of whom can help us reach the dance in their freshman year.
GOUNUII
Sec 112, look at this board again. First, there are 48 posts on this thread about NIT bracketology (albeit 20 of them either mine or replies to mine). Trust me, if I brought up NIT bracketology to my colleagues here in Maryland there would be roars of laughter
Also, if you look at the "win and in" thread, one would think it means NCAA, but, in fact, is NIT
If you look at the Low/mid-major conference tourney thread, they are talking like 'oh no, valpo lost, another auto bid STOLEN!'
Inside NU has an entire article devoted to our "competitors" for the last spots in the N.I.Effing T.
I'm not trying to poop on the parade route. I'm glad they don't suck. But to me this is the equivalent of arranging an alumni trip for a 5-7 football team to the Motor City Bowl or Pizza Bowl or WTF bowl it is now called.
Nah.
We were down over half the of the starting 5 in 2012-13 including 3 of our top 5 players. The following year we were relatively healthy (Cobb didn't go down until late in conference play and was looking really good up until the injury). Don't really want to get into it too much. Just saying you need more than one snake bitten team and projection of how future players would pan out in a system they never played in to call it a "down cycle".
Not buying that narrative. "Plateau" on the hand is a fair assessment (thus the "point B to C" move).
That's my point. The following year they were healthy, but still didn't finish out the conference season the way we started. There's no guarantee we would have done so the previous season before either...
True, but the previous 4 seasons, the 'Cats had won 7 or 8 conference games. There was precedent. Add in how NU seriously challenged #1 IU, and top 10-15 Ohio State (2x) and top 10 Michigan State (in addition to the 5 top 100 wins they actually notched), I feel quite comfortable with my perspective on the matter. I get the sense most of us feel like Vic Law would have gotten us an extra game or two this year. Why does that same logic not apply to Crawford, Cobb and Swop?
Regardless, I don't want add more sidetracking than I have already.
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OK, let's look. Thanks for outlining where people are talking about the NIT. I don't know what you expect them to talk about, but that's fine.
Now, once again, can we talk about the actual content? Can you point me to the large group of people who are "foaming at the mouth with excitement that we are an NIT 'bubble' team and that Collins has made such huge progress?" Hell, the low/mid-major thread" doesn't even mention NU, progress or Collins.
Let's see ... the "win and in" thread which stopped five days ago except for one message goes as far to say last week's games were "pretty important," an "interesting week," "meaningful games," "must wins," ... Ah, here's one: "It would be great to get into the NIT. The NIT is preferable to the pay-to-play tournaments..."
"Preferable." Somebody settle him down!!
Oh, and by the way, no reference to Collins or the state of the program in that thread either.
As for InsideNU, let's see ... 20 responses ... 3 messages about Buffalo Wild Wings ... one "hoping for the best ... Somebody bitching about today's players not working hard ... "season was basically over when Vic Law got hurt ... six messages about RPI and scheduling.
Still trying to find anything in the ballpark of "foaming at the mouth."
Yes, NIT bracketology is ridiculous. But then again, as you pointed out, so is NU basketball and my enjoyment of it. If you wanted to say that, I don't blame you. But I think you went off on something that just doesn't exist.
One step at a time, people. NIT this year, NCAA next year. What's wrong with that? NIT is better than nothing this year.
Last I looked (at the MVC Tourney) Abrahamson was not even starting on a last place Drake team and Sina is not any kind of a program changer. Liked Bill, but his recruiting was generally sub-Big Ten standards. Great Xs and Os coach, though.
2011, I assume you're a 2011 grad? Those three years of NIT (and a fourth, your first year out) must have been spectacular and painful. Life is awesome when a college basketball team is one of the three (or, at least, ten) most important things in your life. College is the best.
Count me as someone who would be very happy with the NIT. Count me as someone who has been tracking NIT bracketology. Because, you know, I NEVER track the mundane and useless!!
It just so happens that, as someone who was witness to 6 Big 10 wins during my tenure as an NU student, years 8-12 or the Carmody regime and years 1-3 of the Collins regime are something for me to be quite happy about. For others with higher expectations than me, of which I appreciate that Sec. 112 is a particularly persuasive and thoughtful proponent, it is not hard to suggest that after 3 years missing out on the NIT, that would be a step for us. One could even imagine that it is necessary to continue momentum in recruiting. One could imagine that once you get in to the NIT, there is some chance of winning a couple games and having the chance of playing a game, that if you win will send you to Madison Square Garden. One could suggest that every moment Dererk Pardon plays makes up for the time he wore a metaphorical red shirt and is important to his development. One could suggest that it would be important if the team's hard work had a payoff attached to it (even the NIT) which could lead to better summer workouts.
Just my opinions. Go 'Cats!!
Pardon the selective copy/paste 112, but this is the funniest thing I've seen here in a very long time.
I am also a lifelong Cleveland Indians fan, which is the AL equivalent of being a Cubs fan. Forgive my oversensitivity, I am always cringing for the next impact
Two of the most exciting games that NU has played in were in the NIT. Beating ND on St. Patrick's Day. (I.e. St Cat's Day)m at a jammed Horizon and then playing DePaul to a Horizon sell-out crowd, dominated by NU fans and students, including a over 100 piece NUMB, was what big time BB is all about. Yes, they lost, on a last second shot from near center court but still a memorable NU day. Hope this years team gets into the NIT and advances to at least the semi's in MSG.
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