But why are the starters in with less than 2 minutes to go and the game in hand?
We can’t afford any more injuries especially to Boo.
We can’t afford any more injuries especially to Boo.
Nitpicking
- Thread starter RhabdoWildcat
- Start date
I completely get your concern and that is a worry for me as well. I think we are playing our starters to run up the score and boost our NET rankings which factors in margin of victory against opponents. We have the record and resume, but sort of lack in NET ranking (58 going into today - similar to a bubble team). We didn't really beat our weak Non-con schedule soundly so any blowout win will certainly help.
They have to take the margin of victory out of the equation or group it like...won by 5 or less...10 or more. etc.... it presently is bad for basketball to have to run up the score. and yeah Collins looked kinda psychotic there in the last minute.
They really do. I look at Dayton, who we beat, and I see them more like a couple losses away from not dancing, than a #16 or whatever ranked they are now.
Not saying I agree with it but Collins was coaching up the guys until the final whistle. This team has to ride the key guys this whole season with limited depth and he doesn’t want to waste any opportunities to coach them up and make them better especially with this little time left in the season.
I understand this point and Collins is a much better coach than I would be, but I never hate the morale boost of clearing the bench. You aren’t going to gain any development of bench players by playing them in the last couple minutes but it lets them get some run for their hard work in practice and reduces the minimal injury risk of the final 2-3 minutes. Besides the whole team loves when the end of bench guys get some shots up.
I understand this point and Collins is a much better coach than I would be, but I never hate the morale boost of clearing the bench. You aren’t going to gain any development of bench players by playing them in the last couple minutes but it lets them get some run for their hard work in practice and reduces the minimal injury risk of the final 2-3 minutes. Besides the whole team loves when the end of bench guys get some shots up.
I have to say I was mildly disappointed to have been up by 20 and ultimately win by 14. Perhaps it's the margin of victory issue as discussed above, or perhaps it's just that I wanted to beat Michigan by 20.
When Boo rolled his ankle, did Howard call the TO to protect him? Buie was right in front of him, and he must have seen that Michigan had an advantage for the possession. I couldn’t understand why else he stops play. Howard has my respect forever if that’s the case but curious for others’ reads.
Yes. If there’s anything to complain about in a blowout win, it’s this. I felt the exact same way.
I know it’s good sportsmanship, but I wish they’d take a shot at the end. Michigan kept trying to score - why not NU?
I got that sense as well. I'm was also grateful that Collins went over to Howard and told him he was going to call an otherwise unnecessary timeout so that Boo could get a curtain call.
If you’re going to worry about margin of victory, I think it’s actually better to take out the starters with like 90 seconds to go. The starters kept playing hard with 2, 3, and 4 minutes left, and were playing defense and scoring points. But after that they completely stopped playing defense to avoid fouls and injuries and didn’t much attempt to score. At that point just put in all the backups so they have free rein to play hard. Better than just giving up three easy dunks late and not bad sportsmanship.
Couple reasons. First, do you remember the end of the game against Indiana? We were in total control and then they got within 2
Probably also important is how NET works and how much influence it has on selection. Garbage but it does. It is predictive and is highly reliant on point differential. Even with as well as we have done, our NET ranking is still only 55. And with guaranteed bids that is very close to not being in. SOS is 66
You see what happened to IL? Up 7 with 35 seconds and they lost and that was with the starters
Easy way to stop those late foul-fueled runs is to call the fouls what they are - intentional
Intentional fouls? Always.
Called? Never.
But, the game changes all the time. Tell everyone to they will be called, and instruct the ref to call them
It was 11 with about a minute for IL and they lost. And Mich still pressing so not having the right ball handlers in can make a difference a lot faster than people think. How much were we up against IN and yet it came down to last shot. And most of those starters you want to pull are the ball handlers. Prior to Berry going down it was easier as you had backups with playing time that could handle bringing the ball up but now they are basically all on the floor. Plus those bench guys have little experience with FTs down the stretch. Miss some and you can get itn trouble real quick. Another big issue is the way NET is calculated. Now days harder for most teams to pull the starters the way you suggest.
Just saying I understand with the current circumstances why there is less substitution of bench players at the end for NU
UConn is not a program I want Northwestern to emulate. Ever.
I'm sure they took great satisfaction in extending a 13 point lead with 2 minutes to play into a 24 point win.
While Villanova was apparently playing its bench.
It is bad sportsmanship. No other way to describe it. It is an example of what losers do.
If one of your neighbors is a scumbag, that doesn't give you permission to be a scumbag.
You want to compete and win with class.
If I abandon that because of a computer rating, I suck at life.
I'm sure they took great satisfaction in extending a 13 point lead with 2 minutes to play into a 24 point win.
While Villanova was apparently playing its bench.
It is bad sportsmanship. No other way to describe it. It is an example of what losers do.
If one of your neighbors is a scumbag, that doesn't give you permission to be a scumbag.
You want to compete and win with class.
If I abandon that because of a computer rating, I suck at life.
For all the residents of CT who love UCONN, and for people of outstanding character like Jim Calhoun, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, etc., we go on record as disagreeing wholeheartedly. I am not a huge fan of Hurley, so if your opinion is related solely to him and his leadership, that is another story. Please be more specific when you have the gall to trash an entire program.
I’m sorry you feel that way. Every team and every coach knows that margin of victory matters. And players getting more reps on both sides of the ball is a good thing.
It isn't "gall" to criticize bad behavior. Wish more people would do it.
Maybe it's just Hurley. Doesn't really matter - he's there now and whatever he does reflects on the entire program.
Respect the game. Respect your opponent.
Thats all that matters.
This isn’t 1986. Margin of victory is important. Maybe someone can ask Villanova if they wanted their opponent to let up.
You said the UCONN program - that’s a lot broader than one instance. Be careful.
And Nova didn’t empty their bench, by the way.
And if we all took a legitimate survey of what coaches do in these instances, I bet the vast, vast majority (including Collins) is aware of this and acts accordingly.
In theory, they ARE swatting at the ball. Teams are desperately trying to force a turnover.
An intentional foul is more like grabbing someone's jersey to prevent a score on a fast-break.
Even if you want to ignore the current reality and take a moral high ground, then please be fair and be critical of the process and not Collins or Hurley or all the other coaches that are just making sure their team is not disadvantaged by it.
I have been very critical of the way the NCAA selects teams for its tournament.
I still think using "the computer demands bad sportsmanship" is laughably weak.
To me, sportsmanship is not a moral high ground. It is a basic requirement. One of the many reasons I liked Pat Fitzgerald.
For what its worth, Collins, I believe, is just so wrapped up in winning that he doesn't realize he's taking unnecessary risks with his starters. I don't think he's being malicious. Its when you start resting your best players with a few minutes to go that you tell the world "We are good. We have this. We'll ease up."
If I remember right, Juwan Howard smacked Greg Gard in the handshake line because he felt Gard was trying to embarrass his team. (I forget exactly how).
Why would you need to qualify that Collins is not being malicious? That’s absurd to even write. I also strongly disagree that Collins is so wrapped up in winning that he’s doing something risky to his players. Compared to high school sports needing to enforce 50 point football mercy rules, making a big deal about giving D1 hoops subs a few seconds or so more is just wasted time. I’m done here (I’m sure many are thankful).
How did you feel about Fitz giving defensive linemen goal line snaps up 40 late on Illinois?
Everyone does it. Times change. I remember a point in time where celebrating a home run was considered breaking an unwritten rule. Sports evolve and especially when it comes to rankings and positioning it matters. This isn’t high school — no one wants pity from an opponent.
Soft. This is basketball, not football. You’re not throwing up bombs up 50, you’re just rubbing an offense and taking a shot. Respect for the game is competing with integrity and competing clean and hard through the whistle. Playing badly or lazily is disrespectful to the spirit of competition and patronizing to the opponent.
This is actually why I’d like to see Collins go to the bench a little more, let those guys come in so they can play hard.
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