Without Boo or Brooks to take control late we looked flummoxed. Team has promise but lacks that clutch finisher at this point (and Berry was MIA)
No Boo, No Brooks, No Finisher (and no chance)
- Thread starter wildcatcoaster
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Other than Martinelli and (for brief stretches) Angelo, the whole team was MIA tonight. That they kept it close against a good Dayton team in a tough place to play is nice, but yes, it needs more than one guy whether he's clutch or not. Boo wouldn't have won this game with no one helping him either.
Hopefully there is a lot that NU can and will learn as a result of tonight, and our rusty seniors are back up to midseason form by December when the games REALLY start to matter.
Hopefully there is a lot that NU can and will learn as a result of tonight, and our rusty seniors are back up to midseason form by December when the games REALLY start to matter.
Disappointing to miss the opportunity for a big win on the road, but losing to the #29 KenPom team in their place by 5 without your best player isn't the end of the world on paper.
I couldn't watch the game due to ESPN+: other than Berry's continued terrible shooting, is there anything to be concerned about other than "we need Brooks, our best player and key ball handler, back?" I saw some concern Leech is a poor ball handler, that's an issue considering it was something he was supposed to bring a little of. Martinelli as a lead ball handler is... that's a problem.
I couldn't watch the game due to ESPN+: other than Berry's continued terrible shooting, is there anything to be concerned about other than "we need Brooks, our best player and key ball handler, back?" I saw some concern Leech is a poor ball handler, that's an issue considering it was something he was supposed to bring a little of. Martinelli as a lead ball handler is... that's a problem.
Didn’t see it either, but if we’re playing two freshmen and a new to the team transfer for significant minutes, it’s going to take them some real game experience together to gel.
Tonight was a rude wake up for them after last game’s cake walk. The real question from me is how do they respond?
Tonight was a rude wake up for them after last game’s cake walk. The real question from me is how do they respond?
We absolutely had a chance. Dayton put on the classic “home team finds its footing and puts in a run” that good teams do.
This NU team just has to get into the tournament and we will be a big problem.
Also didn’t help that Ty Berry (probably our 3rd best player) went 0-fer and seemed rusty enough that Collins basically glued him to the bench for the second half.
Not gonna pretend to know basketball, but Brooks back should even this team out a bit. When Dayton went on its second-half run there wasn’t really a veteran ballhandler with enough standing to basically calm things down; Collins attempted to beat the pressure with a combination of Leach and Windham, which went mostly OK but not enough to stem the tide. Can’t help myself but to wonder how that game might’ve gone with a healthy Brooks. Should be on the “good win” column by the end of the year at the very least.
It’s Leach’s second game with this team and at this level. He showed flashes, but not enough.
I felt like Leach got bullied a little bit. Dayton was very physical.
Any KJ was out of control in the 2nd half. I admire his confidence (sincerely) but he can’t back it up yet. If you didn’t know better, you would have thought he was our go-to guy.
I like a young guy with the confidence to play as the go-to guy.
Berry looked rusty and needs to be more aggressive offensively. And our 5s were terrible! Nicholson can’t hang onto the ball.
On the plus side Martinelli was great. And the two freshman can play.
On the plus side Martinelli was great. And the two freshman can play.
Sounds familiar, reminds me about a young freshman kid that was lightly recruited about 6 years ago.
All in all, nothing to be discouraged about. Dayton is tough and losing on the road isn’t a fail. I’m actually encouraged that beyond Brooks we may have a bona fide Robin in Martinelli (a huge surprise), two fresh who are for real, and u gotta think Berry and Nicholson will revert to their mean. I think with BB we may be better than I thought.
Leach did not have a good game. Couldn’t hit open shots, struggled with ball handling, defense was inadequate.
Windham had a good start but as you pointed out was wild in the second half - flashes of freshman Boo Buie, ie. Bad Boo.
Angelo aka Jello was fantastic overall, very confident.
Our ball handling against the press was atrocious, Dayton flipped the game with the press, erasing a 10 point lead with a 15-1 run. We need major work to improve against the press.
We had no answer on defense for Cheeks, doesn’t seem we have a defensive stopper.
It feels like a game we could’ve won.
I hope you're right, but both have had really long stretches of bad play in the past.
You guys make it sound like we are back to the Sobolewski days.
You made bunny sad.
You made bunny sad.
There is zero reason to overreact to this. Dayton was favored by 3.5 pts (when I checked it, it seems like by tip off time it was favored by 4.5). The game more or less ended where it was supposed to. We led through the first 32 minutes. I think the ways we kind of struggled against the likes of Purdue Fort Wayne in recent years were more of a reason to overreact. And we turned out to be fine.
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Positive:
Martinelli - One thing consistent with this dude is that he seems unbothered, oblivious to any pressure. It was like that as a freshman, it continues to be like that today. Dayton looked like it sort of had a plan for him. When he got the ball in the low post you could see them adjusting to bring the double team in. The entire team adjusted its help side position heavily. And yet he just kept on scoring.
KJ - I don't think there's much to say other than he played like he has showed he plays. I don't understand how he's being criticized for being out of control a couple of times. What do you expect? There was enough cocooning, dudes not wanting to take any inititiative in the game. And this kid kept being aggressive. Celebrate it, even if he was out of control a couple of times and did not shoot well.
Ciaravino - His moxie is not KJ, but it's a lot more than I expected. From the limited time watching him it had felt he is a very well rounded player. Multi dimensional guy that can do multiple aspects of the game well.
Mullins - I hope he gets more aggressive on offense. He did not make mistakes, played within himself, but I want to think he can do more.
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Neutral:
Smith - He was just out there. If you were not paying close attention you could have missed he played at all.
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Negative
Leach - He even started well hitting a 3 pointer. He only had one turnover but thats because he often had to defer breaking the press to Martinelli and KJ. That's not good. He was not aggressive on offense, did not look to slash. He had multiple brain farts on defense getting lost on switches. I hope he figures it out, good chance he will. Langborg had his struggles adjusting to consistent stronger opponents. Fingers crossed.
Matt/Hunger - I am bundling them as neither could get it together and put together a decent game at the 5. Matt was fine on defense, but Zed Key is not exactly a guy that requires great defenders. But on offense, just taking up space. His big threat comes from pick and rolls/dribble hand offs rolling to the basket. He makes it hard for the guy guarding him to hard show or stay with the ball handler as Matt will be threatening the lob. But, without Boo, Leach showed zero threat working off of Matt. The other guys are not great pick and roll guys, not Berry, not Martinelli. KJ probably a year out to figure that dynamic. Hoping Barnhizer changes things for Matt to be more efficient. Or that Leach surprises. Hunger made sense to play more in this scenario. Tried, did not shy away from getting involved, he has always had a bit of that unjustified confidence, but had a poor shooting night. The reality is that Hunger has had good, or at least decent shooting games but, more oftent than not, he doesn't.
Berry - Awful. But we know he can get it done. So not much more to say.
Weirdly, while we were up, a couple of times by double digits, it felt Nate Santos was keeping them in the game. He got his 3rd fould early in the second and I though his coach was taking a big risk keeping him out there. And he did get his 4th. He sits down and that's when Dayton turns the game around. Counter intuitive.
I had fun watching the game live. Great atmosphere in the arena. Still to see the Cats win away from Evanston.
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Positive:
Martinelli - One thing consistent with this dude is that he seems unbothered, oblivious to any pressure. It was like that as a freshman, it continues to be like that today. Dayton looked like it sort of had a plan for him. When he got the ball in the low post you could see them adjusting to bring the double team in. The entire team adjusted its help side position heavily. And yet he just kept on scoring.
KJ - I don't think there's much to say other than he played like he has showed he plays. I don't understand how he's being criticized for being out of control a couple of times. What do you expect? There was enough cocooning, dudes not wanting to take any inititiative in the game. And this kid kept being aggressive. Celebrate it, even if he was out of control a couple of times and did not shoot well.
Ciaravino - His moxie is not KJ, but it's a lot more than I expected. From the limited time watching him it had felt he is a very well rounded player. Multi dimensional guy that can do multiple aspects of the game well.
Mullins - I hope he gets more aggressive on offense. He did not make mistakes, played within himself, but I want to think he can do more.
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Neutral:
Smith - He was just out there. If you were not paying close attention you could have missed he played at all.
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Negative
Leach - He even started well hitting a 3 pointer. He only had one turnover but thats because he often had to defer breaking the press to Martinelli and KJ. That's not good. He was not aggressive on offense, did not look to slash. He had multiple brain farts on defense getting lost on switches. I hope he figures it out, good chance he will. Langborg had his struggles adjusting to consistent stronger opponents. Fingers crossed.
Matt/Hunger - I am bundling them as neither could get it together and put together a decent game at the 5. Matt was fine on defense, but Zed Key is not exactly a guy that requires great defenders. But on offense, just taking up space. His big threat comes from pick and rolls/dribble hand offs rolling to the basket. He makes it hard for the guy guarding him to hard show or stay with the ball handler as Matt will be threatening the lob. But, without Boo, Leach showed zero threat working off of Matt. The other guys are not great pick and roll guys, not Berry, not Martinelli. KJ probably a year out to figure that dynamic. Hoping Barnhizer changes things for Matt to be more efficient. Or that Leach surprises. Hunger made sense to play more in this scenario. Tried, did not shy away from getting involved, he has always had a bit of that unjustified confidence, but had a poor shooting night. The reality is that Hunger has had good, or at least decent shooting games but, more oftent than not, he doesn't.
Berry - Awful. But we know he can get it done. So not much more to say.
Weirdly, while we were up, a couple of times by double digits, it felt Nate Santos was keeping them in the game. He got his 3rd fould early in the second and I though his coach was taking a big risk keeping him out there. And he did get his 4th. He sits down and that's when Dayton turns the game around. Counter intuitive.
I had fun watching the game live. Great atmosphere in the arena. Still to see the Cats win away from Evanston.
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I am ok with this evaluation. Maybe I don't think he played as well as you think he did (though you know a lot more about basketball than I do), but the fact that he's even TRYING to be the man shows the confidence that some of our players lack. It will bode him well in the future, but it's unfair of me to evaluate him as if he were a veteran when it's just his second game, regardless of his confidence and role.
Sums up my feelings on KJ and Jello perfectly.
Re Wyndham, I my hot take is that he is a CCC scouting revelation along the lines of Boo (not saying he will be Boo II, but a vastly overlooked talent).
Mullins is probably the best athlete on the team (along with Jello, perhaps). Reminds me a bit of Chase in that neither is particularly intuitive as a player. I will be happy if Mullins can become an elite defender and do lots of rebounding. 5 ppg would be great from him.
I don't know if my words were great, but the main point I wanted to make is that I felt him trying to do too much was heavily driven by the fact that, other than Martinelli, we had a fair amout of players just retreating to their shells and not being aggressive. It's a very common thing, moreso with inexperienced teams, that when the pressure is raised, a fair amount of players treat the ball like it's on fire and they just want it out of their hands. Kid saw that and said sure, I will try to make something happen.
In Nance/Young's last year with us, often the last 5 minutes of the game were obvious cases of what I described above.
I will take the kid who is willing to burn his hands holding the ball over the super talented kid who hides.
Little Hungry played the like the scared kid most of last year as a 7th grader going against bigger, more experienced 8th grade kids. He could do it in practice, but not in games. Now something is different. He went off against the best team last week for a bunch of points, rebounds, and blocks, and just played with an attitude. I think a year of rock climbing has made him much stronger, and now he has confidence. This is going to be a fun season to watch.
So these kids can learn to rise to the occasion, but the confidence has to be there. JK and Jello don't seem to lack it. I love that.
Little Hungry played the like the scared kid most of last year as a 7th grader going against bigger, more experienced 8th grade kids. He could do it in practice, but not in games. Now something is different. He went off against the best team last week for a bunch of points, rebounds, and blocks, and just played with an attitude. I think a year of rock climbing has made him much stronger, and now he has confidence. This is going to be a fun season to watch.
So these kids can learn to rise to the occasion, but the confidence has to be there. JK and Jello don't seem to lack it. I love that.
I've always thought, as a non basketball mind, that Hunger has just looks like a guy in past years for whom the game is moving too fast at times. You see the telltale look in every sport. Getting stuck watching, behind plays, sort of surprised and reacting instead of being part of the play, etc. Offensively he's smooth and skilled enough to navigate to his shots sometimes, but defensively it really looked clear that he was stuck watching a lot and just wasn't playing up to speed or keeping up. That's always been the kind of thing most guys who are talented can learn with experience. From what I saw in game one he'd taken a step forward in that department, and he certainly has the offensive skills and talent to be a factor.
This writeup is greatly appreciated. Sounds like the big takeaways are sort of as I'd guessed: the freshmen are doing a shocking amount of good, but are still just freshmen and badly need big brother Brooks back to lead the way so KJ can pick spots to contribute instead of having all the pressure on him.
I'm on full blown Leech watch now though, I'm not sure this team can afford him being a total bust. His inability to be a ball handler is not a good sign. Hopefully he recovers and finds a role. Langborg is a good comp, even as he got his footing as a shooter for much of the first half of 2/3 of last year I thought he was a pretty awful ball handler and was always nervous when he tried to create, but down the stretch he really took it to another level and while he wasn't on Brooks or Boo's level he was capable of having the ball in his hands in big spots. Berry just isn't that guy with the ball in his hands, so we need it somewhere.
I would not worry about this loss (for now). I am taking the NU lost by 5 on the road to a solid program WITHOUT their best player view. Everything changes when Brooks comes back. My biggest concern at this point Ty. He needs a game with an easy 10 points just to get his mojo back!
Didn’t he get 10 against Lehigh? most were in the second half when he made a few jumpers, but he has done it.
I agree on the Adam’s Hunger assessment. That’s why he’s a foul machine. he is far from perfect, but if he can score and make people respect his shooting, that can more than make up for it. We need one center named Matt Hungerson I think.
I thought they were a couple of the issues at Dayton also. I almost want to say you can't play them together b/c they have too much of the same negative tendencies. But it's still awfully early.
Barny missing affects things in a lot of ways from depth and minutes to scoring and having that double finisher (I think Martinelli can be one but by the time we got there he had nothing left)
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