No Postseason
- Thread starter thewildcat2011
- Start date
Too bad. Wonder if Tre would have been able to play if selected? Due date is tomorrow......
Princeton was selected. Why???? One good win, Yale at home. No other name wins, lots of losses to Tournament teams (MD, Stony Brook, St Joes, Miami). Just don't see how that is any better than NU playing in the Big 10 and having beaten Wisconsin (NCAA) and Va Tech (NIT).
Yeah, needed one more "name" win in there (@Maryland, either Michigan game, OSU) and would've been darn close. Too bad, but a good season overall. Big things ahead, and a huge thank you to Tre and Alex, who have given their all to the program throughout their careers.
Amazing VT is in with a worse record and home loss to NU... That win gave Big the ACC challenge... can talk a lot about other considerations but NU beat VT on road and only OOC loss was a one seed. I thought 20 wins might get a road game. Still NU should keep playing if they can... Disappointing they don't want a 21st first record breaking win for the school even if they buy the opportunity.,
Great point. Seems like the guys had their hearts set on at least the NIT and decided to just move on. Good for them.
Well I don't listen to that either because look at Tulsa. If they could get into the NCAA Tournament this year, Northwestern at least had a chance for the NIT. I was realistic saying it may be tough for them to get in, but I certainly thought they had a chance. They didn't, but I have no regrets for hoping they would get in.
Princeton did have a very solid top 40 RPI. Probably from playing those aforementioned teams, and not losing too many games to bad teams. Probably why they were chosen ahead of Northwestern. Next year, hopefully NW beefs up their non-conference schedule and wins a few more games against the tournament teams.
This is great news - it means that NU's core of returning players has maximized their potential and couldn't benefit either from two additional weeks of practice or from exposure to true do-or-die competition, regardless the level of opposition. It's nice to know the program has achieved peak performance. An all-time wins record, after all!
Or maybe CCC's budget for private travel only accounted for travel through the first two weeks of March.
("Let them play! Let them play!")
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The timing is perfect. The team could do spring break in Vegas. There are far worse things for 13 18- to 23-year-olds to do.
The final is Wednesday, 3/30. That's the second day of spring classes. The players would miss no class time except for syllabus distribution.
It has been a long season. Let them hit the books and the weights. Congrats on a 20 win season. The arrow is still pointing up for the program.
I'm not *outraged*, but it strikes me as a missed opportunity.
It says a lot about how far the program has to go when the team/staff was so let down by not making the *NIT* (that is, the Not Invited Tournament) that they chose to play nothing else.
I was actually thinking today that, objectively, there's a lot to recommend about the Vegas tournament over the NIT. NIT has history / tradition on its side, but they're equal in (having zero) stature, and the 'bowl-like' player experience that the Vegas tournament has promoted seems a great way to celebrate/finish the season.
(And, for what it's worth, I would have totally supported Tre staying home and the team taking a 'Play for Little Tre' approach. My first child was born just prior to spring break while I was in grad school, and it was one of the greatest weeks of my life.)
Trust me, it was way more about the non-conference schedule than anything that happened during the league slate.
That's fair. I would have supported, and did support, us taking a look at the Vegas tournament. Hopefully everyone was in on the decision and it made sense internally.
There is one particularly unbalanced individual losing his mind in the twitter-verse about this decision. Of course, he is being supported by the less than positive about CC crowd.
It was more about a lack of respect for the BIG in general. The selection committee hammered the BIG in every respect other than numbers for NCAA and it carried on to the NIT.
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record on this, but I believe it was the unusually high number top seeds that lost in their conference tournaments that was the difference. 15 NIT bid thieves (nearly half the field).
If we are talking just 2 or 3 less (closer to the 5 year average), I think the 'Cats are still playing. Obviously, you don't want to leave up to that, but you would need extenuating circumstances for a 20 win high major (even with a weak resume) to get left out of the NIT. Unfortunately, those circumstances occurred.
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I’m with you NUCat320. I actually would have preferred the Vegas16 over an NIT invite. We know how much publicity and exposure the NIT gets as the stepchild to the Big Dance.
Wikipedia:
"When teams with tenuous hopes of an NCAA Tournament berth lose away from home late in the season, opposing fans may taunt the players in the closing seconds with chants of "NIT! NIT!". ... Irv Moss, a journalist for the Denver Post, once wrote of such a taunt, .... 'The three-letter word... was far more cutting than any four-letter word they could have hollered.'
.... the NIT has been nicknamed the "Not Invited Tournament", "Never Important Tournament", "Nobody's Interested Tournament", "Needs Improvement Tournament", "No Important Team", "National Insignificant Tournament," or simply "Not In Tournament".
.... NC State, which had been the previous year's NCAA champion, refused to play in the tournament, following the precedent set by ACC rival Maryland the previous season after losing the ACC championship game to the top-ranked Wolfpack. In succeeding years, other teams such as Oklahoma State, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Georgetown, and LSU have declined to play in the NIT when they did not make the NCAA tournament.
So, if we were to have a chance to give the finger to the NIT, and thus to the NCAA (who likes THEM, anyway?) we would be in good company. We DON’T yet know how much hype the Vegas folks will be able to put out, but my money would be on them over the NIT division of the NCAA --- who are quite literally owned by the NCAA. The line would be something like this but a tiny bit more tactful, “Take your dreary, stigmatized, stinkin’ NIT invitation and shove it. We’re off to have some fun in Vegas, and you can watch us tear up the bracket on CBSSports TV.”
Then you get Gus Johnson and Michael Wilbon and Kareem and/or Bo Ryan and/or Bobby Knight and/or Larry Brown (etc, etc, etc) to do some game calls and commentary from Vegas in exchange for a penthouse and other perks.
Sour grapes? Of course, but purple ones. How does this play year after year as studio commentary?: “Northwestern, as most of you remember, was the winner of the Inaugural Vegas16 Tournament."
Maybe it is not too late for Phillips to let the Vegas 16 deciders know there has been a change of heart. I did think it was odd after the loss to Michigan to hear players saying that was their last game when it seemed that even if we did not make the NIT there were still other options on the table.
I can understand feeling snubbed by the NIT but the best way to respond is to win the tournament that then becomes available.
I can understand feeling snubbed by the NIT but the best way to respond is to win the tournament that then becomes available.
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Any basis for that assumption? I would be disappointed in our players if that is the case. That is equally bad form as what LSU did in letting the NIT know they were too good for them. We are not Notre Dame yet, or are we?
dis appointing but obviously we just arent that good of a team right now. Not a knock because we progressed since last year and we are an up and comer. I suspect we got a shot next year for NIT then i dont think it is too purple to say that we might get in the big dance the year after.
That's a bummer. I was planning on making a quick trip, my first, to Vegas to watch the Cats play in that tourney if they made it.
Thanks to Alex and Tre for playing their hearts out the past four years, and to JVG for choosing NU for his final year.
No thanks to the refs for jobbing us on Thursday.
Kind of surprised and a bit disappointed that our team choose not to go to a post season tournament, if they were given the chance. The usual benefits of more playing and practice time stand out as well putting the NU brand on a national stage. Just think the banner hanging high in W-R, stating Northwestern University Wildcats, Champion of the inaugural Las Vegas 16 Tournament!
You can try to spin it however you want, but the reality is that even after finishing Big Ten play, your SOS was still only 137. That isn't going to be rewarded when it comes to tourney time.
I dunno. I was one of those who thought we might take a step back next year, with Olah (and JvZ) leaving, but with Olah hurt much of the year (along with Vic Law) and the Cats not playing to expectations, I do think we move up instead of back next year, especially with the emergence of Dererk Pardon. Hope Collins can get another 5th year big to join the team. Then I'll feel real good.
Next year is the year, according to the Coach K plan, which we are currently ahead of schedule on in year 3.
It's true, but other than scheduling better (which would have needed to happen last year) there was nothing more we could do in non-con. Beat everyone accept UNC.
Where we actually had chances that ended up being missed was in conference.
Our scheduling was bad, but also unlucky. Fairfield underperformed (scheduling Monmouth or Iona out of that conference would have been better), Columbia underperformed, Mizzou underperformed (coming into the season only 1 year removed from an NIT and 2 from an NCAA team).
Didn't help that everyone around the conference also had some ugly non-con scheduling and performances. It all added up to where we stand now. Poor seeding for NCAA and only one NIT bid.
You need to build yourself a safety net with your non-con scheduling, which we didn't do. Next year will be a pretty big jump if I remember correctly.
Spot on.
NU designed a schedule for the NIT after missing out on some higher profile match ups. The only take away I see is that it can be difficult to schedule in a very specific manner because you can't predict what your competition will end up doing (short of going the Michigan State route). Unfortunately, the cocktail of under performing non-conference opponents (outside of Va Tech), a weak BIG, and massive amounts of low/mid major upsets was lethal.
As other posters have noted Ken Pom had NU rated significantly higher than the RPI did. So it's not like the 'Cats had nothing going in their favor. Unfortunately, NCAA metrics are what they are, regardless of their antiquated nature.
I stated that you never want to put yourself in a position like the 'Cats were in (you can say the same about NCAA bubble teams too), but I wouldn't call acknowledging extenuating circumstances, "spin". For example:
Iowa got in with an RPI of 128, a mediocre SOS, and an overall record of 17-16 back in 2012. The key was 4 impressive victories and a total of 11 bid thieves (some of which weren't really thieves because they were destined for the NIT regardless).
Had NU beat Michigan (3rd to top 100 victory) and had their been 11 bid thieves instead of 15, does NU get left out? No.
Scheduling is what is. Penn State has landed NIT bids using the exact same formula. The BIG just wasn't up to snuff this year and didn't provide the boost it usually does.
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Yup. We've been in the NIT with lower KenPom scores than this (granted it was just once).
For frustration's sake: there are 18 teams in the tourney with lower KenPom scores than NU...including an at large bid. Yay!
don't think we couldn't win the CBI this year:
1. Albany
2. Ohio
3. Houston Baptist
4. North Carolina at Greensboro
5. Western Carolina
6. Vermont
7. Pepperdine
8. Eastern Washington
9. Montana
10. Nevada
11. Idaho
12. Seattle
13. Duquesne
14. Omaha
15. Siena
16. Morehead State
or how about the College Insider Tourney:
Jackson State (19-15) @ Sam Houston State (18-15) 7:30
South Carolina State (19-14) @ Grand Canyon (25-6) 10:00
Mercer (19-14) @ Coastal Carolina (18-11) 7:00
UL Monroe (20-13) @ Furman (18-15) 7:00
Ball State (19-13) @ Tennessee State (20-10) 8:00
UT Arlington (23-13) @ Savannah State (16-15) 7:00
Boston University (18-14) @ Fordham (17-13) 7:00
Norfolk State (17-16) @ Columbia (21-10) 7:00
New Hampshire @ Fairfield (19-13) 7:00
Army (19-13) @ NJIT (17-14) 7:30
UT-Martin (19-14) @ Central Michigan (17-15) 8:00
UC Irvine (25-9) @ North Dakota (17-15) 8:00
Texas A&M Corpus Christi (25-7) @ UL Lafayette (17-14) 8:00 pm
What a waste of time on these tournaments....
1. Albany
2. Ohio
3. Houston Baptist
4. North Carolina at Greensboro
5. Western Carolina
6. Vermont
7. Pepperdine
8. Eastern Washington
9. Montana
10. Nevada
11. Idaho
12. Seattle
13. Duquesne
14. Omaha
15. Siena
16. Morehead State
or how about the College Insider Tourney:
Jackson State (19-15) @ Sam Houston State (18-15) 7:30
South Carolina State (19-14) @ Grand Canyon (25-6) 10:00
Mercer (19-14) @ Coastal Carolina (18-11) 7:00
UL Monroe (20-13) @ Furman (18-15) 7:00
Ball State (19-13) @ Tennessee State (20-10) 8:00
UT Arlington (23-13) @ Savannah State (16-15) 7:00
Boston University (18-14) @ Fordham (17-13) 7:00
Norfolk State (17-16) @ Columbia (21-10) 7:00
New Hampshire @ Fairfield (19-13) 7:00
Army (19-13) @ NJIT (17-14) 7:30
UT-Martin (19-14) @ Central Michigan (17-15) 8:00
UC Irvine (25-9) @ North Dakota (17-15) 8:00
Texas A&M Corpus Christi (25-7) @ UL Lafayette (17-14) 8:00 pm
What a waste of time on these tournaments....
Depends on Pardon, if he makes a big leap. Also depends on Benson and whether or not he is ready to contribute immediately.
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